Dion Dawkins- on the hot seat?

[BuffAlone]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Of they drafted him to be a RT, then why not have him play RT?  Nsekhe said he prefers LT and is better there.  So he competes with the guy that wasn’t good last year and has never won a competition under McD.  Doesn’t hurt that that guy projected better at guard as well.  

 

Lots of directions we can go, but if MCD says he’s a RT, that means they drafted him to be the RT.  Why put him at guard with exhausting other options (aka, Nsekhe and Dawkins fight for LT) as opposed to ford and Nsekhe battle for RT.

Nsekhe is our swing tackle. Waddle probably don't make the team. Long and Teller battle for RG. The rest are penciled in as starters IMO....

Dawkins/Spain/Morse/Long-Teller/ Ford

What a difference a year makes!

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

I feel like people have this mindset that Dawkins was so dominant rookie LT.  I actually thought the line took a step back when he had to fill in for Glenn. 

 

When I see Dawkins play, I see Quenton Nelson. 

 

Exactly this.  Dawkins played well for a rookie LT but he wasn't anywhere near a top NFL LT.  Playing beside Incognito with Wood at C making the line calls really helped him.  Dawkins' play certainly didn't make Cordy Glenn "expendable" -- Beane's determination to move up in the draft to take a QB made Glenn "expendable".  Without help from his LG and C, Dawkins struggled as a sophomore, but while whoever the Bills have a LG isn't likely to be as good as Incognito, he shouldn't be as bad as the scrubs that played LG last season.    Morse is probably as good as Wood, at least in making line calls.  So, Dawkins should play better than last season and keep his starting LT position but he's unlikely to become a top NFL LT in 2019.

 

5 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Russell Bodine

Mitch Morse

Spencer Long

Ike Boettger

Wyatt Teller

Jon Feliciano

Quinton Spain

Jeremiah Sirles

Dion Dawkins

Cody Ford

Ty Nsekhe

Conor McDermott

LaAdrian Waddle

Vladmir Ducasse

 

14 players and curious how this is going to play out.  I bet we cut some very good linemen.

 

Ummm ... no.   While the Bills brought in FA OLers who were significantly better than what was on the team in 2018, most of them weren't starters on their previous teams or were starters because of injuries to other OLers.  Some of the guys listed in your post were only on the Bills roster because the Bills needed bodies in 2018. 

 

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Of they drafted him to be a RT, then why not have him play RT?  Nsekhe said he prefers LT and is better there.  So he competes with the guy that wasn’t good last year and has never won a competition under McD.  Doesn’t hurt that that guy projected better at guard as well.  

 

Lots of directions we can go, but if MCD says he’s a RT, that means they drafted him to be the RT.  Why put him at guard with exhausting other options (aka, Nsekhe and Dawkins fight for LT) as opposed to ford and Nsekhe battle for RT.

 

Because college coaches tend to play their best OLers at OT, especially LT, regardless of how their skillsets translate into the NFL game which  requires more speed and strength, and better footwork from its OTs, especially LTs, than collegiate ball does.  That's why many college OTs move to OG in the pros, and why it's not uncommon for collegiate LTs to move over to the right side. 

 

McDermott is not an OL expert, and I seriously doubt that he's solely responsible for making draft picks, so we don't know if Ford was actually drafted to be a RT or if the Bills intend move him to OG.  The Bills will try Ford at RT but they may eventually move him inside, especially if they acquire a better RT.  What is better?  A poor OT or a good/excellent OG?  

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by SoTier

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

My only reason for it is to have good pass blockers on the ends when we have to play against very tough ones. If Ford is a better pass blocker than people say, then do whatever. Dawkins was our best lineman last year on a bad squad, and the season before he made Glenn expendable. I think there's more evidence that the kid is good enough than evidence he isn't.

I dunno.   His solid rookie year of tale in which he didn’t play the whole season vs being pretty bleh last year, in which he played bleh the whole year. 

 

Only additional evidence is that that they decided to trade Glenn so he can start,  

 

dude never competed for anything other RT.  And he lost to Jordan Mills.  McBeane preaches competition.  Earning everything,   Lost players do,  Dawkins has not.  Let Nsekhe compete where he’s best and prefers to play

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Exactly this.  Dawkins played well for a rookie LT but he wasn't anywhere near a top NFL LT.  Playing beside Incognito with Wood at C making the line calls really helped him.  Dawkins' play certainly didn't make Cordy Glenn "expendable" -- Beane's determination to move up in the draft to take a QB made Glenn "expendable".  Without help from his LG and C, Dawkins struggled as a sophomore, but while whoever the Bills have a LG isn't likely to be as good as Incognito, he shouldn't be as bad as the scrubs that played LG last season.    Morse is probably as good as Wood, at least in making line calls.  So, Dawkins should play better than last season and keep his starting LT position but he's unlikely to become a top NFL LT in 2019.

 

 

Ummm ... no.   While the Bills brought in FA OLers who were significantly better than what was on the team in 2018, most of them weren't starters on their previous teams or were starters because of injuries to other OLers.  Some of the guys listed in your post were only on the Bills roster because the Bills needed bodies in 2018. 

 

 

Because college coaches tend to play their best OLers at OT, especially LT, regardless of how their skillsets translate into the NFL game which  requires more speed and strength, and better footwork from its OTs, especially LTs, than collegiate ball does.  That's why many college OTs move to OG in the pros, and why it's not uncommon for collegiate LTs to move over to the right side. 

 

McDermott is not an OL expert, and I seriously doubt that he's solely responsible for making draft picks, so we don't know if Ford was actually drafted to be a RT or if the Bills intend move him to OG.  The Bills will try Ford at RT but they may eventually move him inside, especially if they acquire a better RT.  What is better?  A poor OT or a good/excellent OG?  

 

They drafted him to play RT. If he fails, then he fails.  But that’s why they drafted him.  Nothing else matters.  When he fails (like Dawkins last year) then move him to guard.

[Chandler#81]

The Good: 

 We’ve completely revamped and upgraded our OLine. Granted, we HAD to! Zero running game and protecting our QB was essential.

 At least 3 new starters in Morse, Ford & Spain/Nsheke, probably 4. Plus a new TE or 2.

The Bad:

 No one knows who’s playing where or who they’re playing next to. No one. Not likely there’s another team in the League with this situation. Given the new rules regarding offseason practices, no on will still know through August. Because of this, no one can/will garner any experience with their ‘neighbor’ while every DL they face will take advantage of this with stunts and feints.

 

It is what it is and we brought it on ourselves. Not likely there’ll be any coherence through the Bye week..I just worry we’ll end up cutting someone before we know for sure they were given ample opportunity to play with known teammates.

[GreggTX]

There are going to be a LOT of very interesting position battles this year and a few surprises as usual. This TC will be fun to track all through preseason.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

Not sure if he’s on the roster to be cut but he’s absolutely going to be the LG. That’s the spot he should be playing. 

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

They drafted him to play RT. If he fails, then he fails.  But that’s why they drafted him.  Nothing else matters.  When he fails (like Dawkins last year) then move him to guard.

 

Ford was drafted to play RT because that was his position in college but many experts think he's physically better suited to be a guard.  My point was  that it's a pretty common thing for collegiate OTs to move inside when they get to the pros.  It's not like they would be trying to convert a 2nd round WR to DB, which is rare.

[Putin]

8 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

Nsekhe is our swing tackle. Waddle probably don't make the team. Long and Teller battle for RG. The rest are penciled in as starters IMO....

Dawkins/Spain/Morse/Long-Teller/ Ford

What a difference a year makes!

Except Morse at C Nothing is penciled in 

( IMHO) 

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Ford was drafted to play RT because that was his position in college but many experts think he's physically better suited to be a guard.  My point was  that it's a pretty common thing for collegiate OTs to move inside when they get to the pros.  It's not like they would be trying to convert a 2nd round WR to DB, which is rare.

Experts.  Lol.  Like the guys that don’t work for NFL teams, just websites?  Just like many experts said Dawkins better suited for guard.  The point is, when they drafted him, they drafted him to play RT. They ARE experts. They know what they’re doing.  They’ve taken into account that he can play guard too......but they drafted him to play RT.  

[SoTier]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Experts.  Lol.  Like the guys that don’t work for NFL teams, just websites?  Just like many experts said Dawkins better suited for guard.  The point is, when they drafted him, they drafted him to play RT. They ARE experts. They know what they’re doing.  They’ve taken into account that he can play guard too......but they drafted him to play RT.  

 

Dawkins may very well be better suited to be a guard.  It may be a contributing factor to his struggles last season.  As for the expertise of the Bills OL talent evaluators, I'll reserve judgement until I see them actually make some astute moves.  Last year, Beane and/or McDermott didn't seem to realize that in order to have even a mediocre OL, a team needs to at least have some NFL caliber talent to work with.  I didn't like Castillo but in his defense, he had very little to work with; Beane just collected some bodies and inserted their names on the offensive line depth charge.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Dawkins may very well be better suited to be a guard.  It may be a contributing factor to his struggles last season.  As for the expertise of the Bills OL talent evaluators, I'll reserve judgement until I see them actually make some astute moves.  Last year, Beane and/or McDermott didn't seem to realize that in order to have even a mediocre OL, a team needs to at least have some NFL caliber talent to work with.  I didn't like Castillo but in his defense, he had very little to work with; Beane just collected some bodies and inserted their names on the offensive line depth charge.

Last year’s OL unit was the worst in football imo.  I think it was clear that last year just didn’t matter.  They weren’t going to risk the position they put themselves in salary cap wise to sign some OL that they didn’t have in their plans.  The people I reserve judgement for are people on message boards.  Seeing what they’ve done so far with this team, they have my trust.  If they say ford was drafted to play RT, the. He’s should be competing for that position until he fails.  Then try him elsewhere 

[Billzgobowlin]

On 4/27/2019 at 1:11 PM, NewEra said:

You think we’ll cut some “very good lineman” we only have potentially very good OL imo.  We’ll cut solid depth, no question.  Don’t think the guys cut are regarded as very good

I bet at least 2 of our "cut" linemen will sign with someone else.  I don't think we have 5 pro bowlers on the line but it is deep in NFL talent which most teams do not have.

[NewEra]

“Sign somewhere else” isn’t being very good.  Ducasse and Connor McDermott were signed by the Bills 

 

i agree, we are deep in NFL talent and I’m very happy about this. Competition brings out everyone’s best.  We have competition at multiple positions for the first time in a long time

Edited April 28, 2019 by NewEra

[WideNine]

First, we all need to remember we brought in an o-line coach with a very solid resume of being a part of fielding very good offensive lines. Not inheriting good lines, but turning underperforming units around.

 

Dawkins should feel the heat, but if you listened to Beane in his presser he said they envisioned Dawkins on the left and Ford on the right, but expect competition all around.

 

It is what most of us have said, that don't expect Dawkins to move as they will give him another year to try to recover his LT form.

 

I will be curious how the depth chart shapes up on that left side.

 

 

[Mat68]

12 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Dawkins may very well be better suited to be a guard.  It may be a contributing factor to his struggles last season.  As for the expertise of the Bills OL talent evaluators, I'll reserve judgement until I see them actually make some astute moves.  Last year, Beane and/or McDermott didn't seem to realize that in order to have even a mediocre OL, a team needs to at least have some NFL caliber talent to work with.  I didn't like Castillo but in his defense, he had very little to work with; Beane just collected some bodies and inserted their names on the offensive line depth charge.

Dawkins owns the fact he was a little  complacent last year.  Playing beside a better guard will help him next year imo.  I think the line is tentatively Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Long, Ford.  

[GimmeSomeProcess]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Dawkins owns the fact he was a little  complacent last year.  Playing beside a better guard will help him next year imo.  I think the line is tentatively Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Long, Ford.  

I just can’t see them paying Nysecki 7 mil to be a swing tackle 

[Kelly the Dog]

13 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Ford was drafted to play RT because that was his position in college but many experts think he's physically better suited to be a guard.  My point was  that it's a pretty common thing for collegiate OTs to move inside when they get to the pros.  It's not like they would be trying to convert a 2nd round WR to DB, which is rare.

While I believe all of that to be true, I think he was primarily an OG at Oklahoma, excelled at it, and last year they needed him to move to RT and he did it and excelled there, too. But I believe he has played a lot more as a guard and one year as a tackle. We do want him to play tackle though, at least at first. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

While I believe all of that to be true, I think he was primarily an OG at Oklahoma, excelled at it, and last year they needed him to move to RT and he did it and excelled there, too. But I believe he has played a lot more as a guard and one year as a tackle. We do want him to play tackle though, at least at first. 

Is film this year, which was at RT was more impressive than last season when he played guard by all accounts. It’s like when Corday got drafted, people will say he needs to go inside but will be just fine at tackle 

[hemma]

Need to stash a few guys on IR for Rampant acne or ADD or mysterious muscle pulls.

[Mat68]

3 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

I just can’t see them paying Nysecki 7 mil to be a swing tackle 

He is paid to start at RT until Ford beats him out or earns the spot.  Or if Dawkins doesnt rebound he plays LT.  In a perfect world today Beane and McDermott are fine with him as their swing OT and probably prefer it.  It would mean both Dawkins and Ford are meeting expectations.  Nysecki is insurance that they wont have a turnstile at OT.

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

I just can’t see them paying Nysecki 7 mil to be a swing tackle 

 

Even very modestly talented  LTs who can do a credible job as starters are probably going to command $7 million.   

[GimmeSomeProcess]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

He is paid to start at RT until Ford beats him out or earns the spot.  Or if Dawkins doesnt rebound he plays LT.  In a perfect world today Beane and McDermott are fine with him as their swing OT and probably prefer it.  It would mean both Dawkins and Ford are meeting expectations.  Nysecki is insurance that they wont have a turnstile at OT.

Yep and then I think he goes to LG which he also played. He’s just not gonna be paid 7 mil to ride the pine, if he is they will cut him. 

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Even very modestly talented  LTs who can do a credible job as starters are probably going to command $7 million.   

Exactly, starters, whether he’s at guard or tackle. He’s not gonna make 7 mil riding the pine. My guess he’s in LT causes he’s been solid there and also because Dawkins skill set is incredible for a lg. Dawk size and athleticism can jolt him into a top tier LG

[MrEpsYtown]

If anyone listened to Beane's presser last night, I would say that they still have Dawkins penciled in as the starter at LT. Which agree with. I assume that they were unhappy with his play at the end of the season and after Bobby Johnson watched film, Johnson must feel he can help Dion. Dawkins is very naturally gifted with long arms and good agility. He's a left tackle until he proves he can't do it. 

[Doc]

Nsekhe is making $5M a year. Still good coin but not $7M. 

[akcash]

Dawkins played left guard his rookie year when incognito got hurt and he played awesome... I thinks he's gonna be at lg... he's nasty there.

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, akcash said:

Dawkins played left guard his rookie year when incognito got hurt and he played awesome... I thinks he's gonna be at lg... he's nasty there.

 

It was like 6 plays. He played really well at left tackle, well enough for this regime to trade Corey Glenn when he was next to a competent guard and good center. Having Morse on the line, a better lg next to him, and a new offensive line coach will do wonders for him. He will be fine at LT imo. 

[The Senator]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:14 AM, NewEra said:

I hope so!  After seeing his body at the OTA (or whatever they call it) a couple weeks ago, it didn’t look like he was taking it too seriously.  I figured he had Duffs wings in an IV 

 

Looked a little like Jason Peters, did he?

.

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Nope

[Fan in Chicago]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:44 AM, BuffaloBillies said:

 

Seeing that potential line in writing gets me very excited.

 

Nsekhe 6' 8", 325 lb

Dawkins 6' 5", 320 lb

Morse 6' 6", 305 lb

Spain 6' 5", 335 lb

Ford 6' 4" 329

 

Time to get nasty upfront!

 

That's a ton of talent there. Almost literally

[akcash]

13 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

It was like 6 plays. He played really well at left tackle, well enough for this regime to trade Corey Glenn when he was next to a competent guard and good center. Having Morse on the line, a better lg next to him, and a new offensive line coach will do wonders for him. He will be fine at LT imo. 

I honestly agree with this and I think alot of people are blowing his "bad play" put of proportion... I think he'd be fine if he stayed at lt... I just think with the guys we have the best fit for the team of they're gonna leave ford at rt is him at lg with Nsekhe at LT... or Dawkins at LT and Ford at lg and Nsekhe at Rt... it think the best 5 is like a lot of people are saying is Nsekhe-Dawkins-Morse-tbd-Ford.

Edited April 29, 2019 by akcash

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, The Senator said:

 

Looked a little like Jason Peters, did he?

.

 

More like Chet from weird science 

[akcash]

I'm kind of hoping Feliciano can steal the RG spot bc I think he brings more in the run game... Spain brings more pass pro. Just a matter if Feliciano isn't a liability in pass pro. Or maybe teller can come away with it.

Edited April 29, 2019 by akcash

[Stallions]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:44 AM, BuffaloBillies said:

 

Seeing that potential line in writing gets me very excited.

 

Nsekhe 6' 8", 325 lb

Dawkins 6' 5", 320 lb

Morse 6' 6", 305 lb

Spain 6' 5", 335 lb

Ford 6' 4" 329

 

Time to get nasty upfront!

 

 

BIG & Nasty!!!

[formerlyofCtown]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ittakestime said:

If the Bills are serious about building a nasty line, they will go with:

 

Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Ford

 

I'm saying it now, if Dawkins is the LT over Nsekhe, this team isn't serious about open competition an building the best line.

So Dawkins couldnt get better by working in the offseason.  He must be maxed out.

[formerlyofCtown]

29 minutes ago, The Senator said:

 

Looked a little like Jason Peters, did he?

.

 

Maybe he is pretending the burger is a DL

[par73]

Top five start. After his game fell off last year, Dawkins will have to compete for a starting spot (whether at tackle or guard).

[GimmeSomeProcess]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Nsekhe is making $5M a year. Still good coin but not $7M. 

Oh that’s sweet thought it was 2 yrs at 14 mil. That makes it more palpable, that said I still think he starts, even if it’s at LG. He’s been so good the last couple years on the left side (not so much on the right). 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, akcash said:

I honestly agree with this and I think alot of people are blowing his "bad play" put of proportion... I think he'd be fine if he stayed at lt... I just think with the guys we have the best fit for the team of they're gonna leave ford at rt is him at lg with Nsekhe at LT... or Dawkins at LT and Ford at lg and Nsekhe at Rt... it think the best 5 is like a lot of people are saying is Nsekhe-Dawkins-Morse-tbd-Ford.

 

Im higher on Spencer Long than a lot of people here, except for a few. He can play, and to me he is not a natural center. He started at right guard for three years at Nebraska before he was a third round pick. He's a really strong phone booth player, he isn't about quickness. He sat the bench in Washington for a year and was penciled in as their starting right guard. After drafting Brandon Scherff in the top ten to play RT, they decided to move Scherff to guard where he beat out Long. After that, Washington converted him to center and he played well which led to a big contract with the Jets. He struggled playing for O line coach Rick Dennison, and he was injured. He is not a zone player. It was a poor match from the start. I believe that the Bills need to let him compete at RG where he is most comfortable and let him play to his strengths. I think he wins then RG spot, and I believe Quinton Spain will be the left guard. I think Feliciano has a shot, but I don't think he is as talented as the others. Both Feliciano and Long can play center, though neither are natural centers. 

[Doc]

44 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Oh that’s sweet thought it was 2 yrs at 14 mil. That makes it more palpable, that said I still think he starts, even if it’s at LG. He’s been so good the last couple years on the left side (not so much on the right). 

 

After drafting Ford, who they are pencilling-in at RT, I think Nsekhe is just there in case Dawkins doesn't improve and in case of injury to either OT.  I still think they want Dawkins to be their LT. 

[SCBills]

34 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Im higher on Spencer Long than a lot of people here, except for a few. He can play, and to me he is not a natural center. He started at right guard for three years at Nebraska before he was a third round pick. He's a really strong phone booth player, he isn't about quickness. He sat the bench in Washington for a year and was penciled in as their starting right guard. After drafting Brandon Scherff in the top ten to play RT, they decided to move Scherff to guard where he beat out Long. After that, Washington converted him to center and he played well which led to a big contract with the Jets. He struggled playing for O line coach Rick Dennison, and he was injured. He is not a zone player. It was a poor match from the start. I believe that the Bills need to let him compete at RG where he is most comfortable and let him play to his strengths. I think he wins then RG spot, and I believe Quinton Spain will be the left guard. I think Feliciano has a shot, but I don't think he is as talented as the others. Both Feliciano and Long can play center, though neither are natural centers. 

 

The fact Spencer Long might not start on this line says everything you need to know about how much we upgraded the OL.  .....because as you pointed out, Long is a pretty good player.  

 

Bad fit and injuries with the Jets, but he’s shown he can play in our scheme. 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by SCBills