New O-Line; From 31st to top 5 in one off season?

[Happy]

Nsekhe Dawkins Morse Spain Ford

 

Nsekhe filled in for Trent Williams in Washington as LT and did a good job.  I don't see him as a RT; that is why we drafted Cody Ford.  I think Dawkins loses the competition at LT but wins the LG spot.  I think Dawkins needs a strong LG and C to appear to be an above average LT; without those he looks to be about average.

[Real McClappy]

I really love it alot. This is the first time I can remember the Bills truly addressing and Beefing the hell out of the O-line which is so vary important to success in the league!

 

GO BILLS!

[MJS]

I do think the group will be tremendously improved. I'm already cringing thinking about the first few weeks and them meshing, though. It might be rough for awhile. But ultimately I believe we'll see a much better product by the end of the year, something we can put a stamp on as a team strength going into next season (if we resign some of those 1 year prove it players).

[SoTier]

Aside from Morse, most of the FAs were second tier guys, most not starters on their previous teams unless due to injury.  Dawkins has to regain some of his rookie season form to be average, and Ford is a rookie himself so he may not even be good enough to start early on.   Until this unit plays in real games, it's way to early to assume anything except that they'll be better than last season's group -- but then, that wouldn't be too hard to do.   Let's see what they can do in games that count before making predictions about their ranking vis-a-vis other NFL OLs.

Edited April 28, 2019 by SoTier

[Richard Noggin]

20 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   I harken way back to ‘88 when the O line was a concern that proved to be a strength.

   I get the distinct impression J Allen will have the repeated opportunity, by mid year, to just hang out behind this line, with ridiculous amounts of time, waiting for players to come open.

   Also excited to watch our run game reappear.

Run game I think has to improve with new/improved linemen and new/improved coaching (I mean Castillo, amIright?).

 

Allen having loads of time behind the line probably has a lot to do with how defenses play him this season. Will they man-up and send pressure often to speed up his decision-making? Or will they sit back in zones and make him take what's given? It will be interesting to watch unfold.

 

We can reasonably expect the line to better handle stunts and twists and zone-blitzes; they had a rough time with those last season, especially with Groy in the pivot. Morse is key here, as are more savvy interior vets like Spain, Long, et al. 

 

How Allen and the offense execute against defenses designed to beat him/them will be fascinating. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Hopefully the FAs are better than what we had, if not we will be in the same boat and will probably have to use high draft picks on them next year.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just to be contrarian im going to keep Teller at LG .

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

Aside from Morse, most of the FAs were second tier guys, most not starters on their previous teams unless due to injury.  Dawkins has to regain some of his rookie season form to be average, and Ford is a rookie himself so he may not even be good enough to start early on.   Until this unit plays in real games, it's way to early to assume anything except that they'll be better than last season's group -- but then, that wouldn't be too hard to do.   Let's see what they can do in games that count before making predictions about their ranking vis-a-vis other NFL OLs.

 

Thats how i see it, we didn't exactly bring in pro bowlers. We really lost A LOT when when Glenn, Incognito and Wood moved on, not sure we have comparatively replaced them.

 

 

 

[Bookie Man]

We seem quite deep at OL and RB, it feels weird to say that. The two biggest needs imo, were to strengthen running game and pass rush. I'm happy how things are shaping up.

[papazoid]

Top 5  O-line unit ?

 

find that hard to believe......likely Top 15.....even that is a huge and much needed improvement.

 

I love our depth.....just not blown away by the starters except for the new center. Morse is only one who would individually be ranked in Top 15 at his position.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 4/27/2019 at 5:48 AM, Buffalo Boy said:

 

   I get the distinct impression J Allen will have the repeated opportunity, by mid year, to just hang out behind this line, with ridiculous amounts of time, waiting for players to come open.

 

And then taking off when no one does.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

3 hours ago, papazoid said:

Top 5  O-line unit ?

 

find that hard to believe......likely Top 15.....even that is a huge and much needed improvement.

 

I love our depth.....just not blown away by the starters except for the new center. Morse is only one who would individually be ranked in Top 15 at his position.

I disagree, I think Nysecki plays LT and Dawkins will be a top LG. 

[Chandler#81]

On 4/27/2019 at 7:28 AM, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Dawkins  Spain  Morse  Ford  Nsekhe

 

Those are probably the top 5.

 

Ford goes to RT 2020 season 

My guess as well. This is a serious challenge as virtually all our new OL can play anywhere. McDermott alluded to it in the post draft presser. “Continuity, Communication, Chemistry”. They have to decide relatively quickly who’s playing where and stick with it to develop the ‘3 C’s’. We can all use conjecture, but if they screw it up it could be disastrous. Every DLine we face will try to mess with the fact we’re still learning who we’re playing with. 

[Jerome007]

Even if they go from #31 to around near the tenth spot, it would be a HUGE improvement. That means a few more holes for the runs, a few more running down he clock drives, a few more long passes, a few more TDs. Add these up, and a 6-10 season becomes a 10-6. If they are top 5? *Drools*

[ganesh]

On 4/27/2019 at 3:07 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I think Dawkins ends up being the odd man out.  He was the best of a bad lot last year and I think he gets beat out and ends up being the reserve swing tackle.  

 

Nsekhe / Spain / Morse / Long / Ford

 

Just my guess.  

 

The Battle of the O-Line is going to be incredible this year and improved O-Line play should really push the defense to be better as well going against them in practice all week.

 

It will be fun to watch the new OL and DL going at each other in camp!

1 hour ago, Jerome007 said:

Even if they go from #31 to around near the tenth spot, it would be a HUGE improvement. That means a few more holes for the runs, a few more running down he clock drives, a few more long passes, a few more TDs. Add these up, and a 6-10 season becomes a 10-6. If they are top 5? *Drools*

In NFL, the QB makes the Line better and the Line makes the QB better.  So we need improvement in both....QB play as well as OL play.   The complimentary players need to step up to the occasion.

[Buffalo Junction]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:02 AM, CaptnCoke11 said:

In no scenario do i see Long starting anywhere on the line.  He’ll be back up to all interior spots.  Dawkins spot is shaky at best right now.  

I can see Long starting at RG next to Nsekhe. However, only reason I view that as a possibility is that they’ve played together on the Skins. For that to happen the sum will have to be greater than the parts. In general I agree with you. Long was signed to take Groys role. 

[SCBills]

However it works out, I see it as follows:

 

Morse / Dawkins / Spain / Ford / Nsekhe

 

Waddle as Swing Tackle

 

Long as primary backup G/C

 

Thats a talented, and deep, OL.  

 

I do hope we dont play around too much with lineups during the preseason because these dudes need to gel facing that Jets Front 7 Week 1. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

However it works out, I see it as follows:

 

Morse / Dawkins / Spain / Ford / Nsekhe

 

Waddle as Swing Tackle

 

Long as primary backup G/C

 

Thats a talented, and deep, OL.  

 

I do hope we dont play around too much with lineups during the preseason because these dudes need to gel facing that Jets Front 7 Week 1. 

I see this as well 

[GreggTX]

I don't know about top 5. That requires that Dawkins takes the big step he should have taken last year and Ford lives up to expectations or exceeds them. Then we need at leaqst 1 more G to become a real monster -- either Long or Teller. Still, the improvement in this unit is exceptional. bean said they'd get this done and they sure did.

[TigerJ]

On 4/27/2019 at 5:35 AM, Doc Brown said:

It's going to take them a while to mesh and even if they do they're pry not top 5.  They have the potential to be in that 6 to 10 range though.  Mitch Morse is the only elite player on the line.  Dawkins, Spain, and Ford have the potential to be.  I'm hoping Nsekhe (I butchered the name but I don't care) orLong step up to be that fifth guy.  I've wanted Dawkins to move to guard since he's gotten here and I'm hoping the opening day roster is Nsekhe/Dawkins/Morse/Spain/Ford if all goes well.

That's my big concern with the O-line.  With so many new faces, it's going to take a while to figure out the best combination, but they need to get that figured out quickly so they can work at developing chemistry and becoming a cohesive unit.  How do you accomplish both objectives?  The good news is the guys they signed are all pretty smart players.  Even the guy they drafted, Ford is very smart and technically proficient.  That should help accelerate the learning curve.

[ganesh]

37 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

That's my big concern with the O-line.  With so many new faces, it's going to take a while to figure out the best combination, but they need to get that figured out quickly so they can work at developing chemistry and becoming a cohesive unit.  How do you accomplish both objectives?  The good news is the guys they signed are all pretty smart players.  Even the guy they drafted, Ford is very smart and technically proficient.  That should help accelerate the learning curve.

That is why they have Minicamp and Training Camp before the real bullets fly.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 4/27/2019 at 7:17 AM, vincec said:

They're going to give Dawkins every opportunity to keep the job. I don't think Nsekhe beats him out.

 

OL is an area where cohesion is very important so I would expect a period of adjustment, trial and error before a group of 5 emerges and begins to gel. So the first half of the season will be interesting. Then we can see what they've put together at OL.

We will likely trade at least 1 guy and we will go on to play well for a SB contender.

On 4/28/2019 at 3:02 AM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Just to be contrarian im going to keep Teller at LG .

 

 

Teller could be very good this year.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Starting lineup better, depth WAY better.  Most of the starters from a year ago couldn't sniff this roster.

[TigerJ]

12 hours ago, ganesh said:

That is why they have Minicamp and Training Camp before the real bullets fly.

I have heard coaching staffs say that very little evaluation and decision making goes on in OTAs and minicamp.  The spring is for teaching, especially new guys on the team.  For veterans, a lot may be review, but when you have a new coach (Bobby Johnson - offensive line coach) he will have his own nuances and ideas that he will need to to introduce even to the few holdovers on the offensive line.  Yes, training camp is where lineup decisions and the development of chemistry and cohesion will need to take place, but the longer it takes to set the starting lineup, the less time will be available for the development of chemistry/cohesion.  That was actually part of the problem last year.  That's why I hope Bobby Johnson/Daboll/McDermott can settle on a starting 5 quickly.

[Shaw66]

Very difficult to build a top 5 line from scratch in one year.  I think your expectations are a bit high.

 

Is it possible?  Yes. There's leadership with Morse.  There's good experience with all the free agents. So the ingredients are there.

 

But it's a new line coach.  And the linemen have no experience together.  It may take more than a year to blend into a god unit.  

 

More likely scenario is that the 2020 line 8s good, with 3 or 4 ca%yours from 2019 and 1 or 2 upgrades.  Thats when you'll have a combination of talent and experience together. 

 

I'm expecting a better line in 2019 but not top 5.  

[Figster]

I've never been more excited about the Bills Oline.

 

The gritty, pit bull personality of Cody Ford won my heart over immediately.

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

I hope they prove me wrong, but I think it's ridiculous to claim we have the pieces for a top 5 oline, especially in year 1.

 

If we are league average that's a huge step up and we all should be thrilled with that.  Individually the Cowboys Oline have top of the league players at LT / C / RG between Smith / Fredrick / Martin.  Maybe Morse is there, though most place him only in the "very good" category, but otherwise I don't think we have anywhere near a top 5 individual piece at any one position.  Really tough for the "sum to be better than the parts" by a huge margin the first year together.

[Figster]

8 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I hope they prove me wrong, but I think it's ridiculous to claim we have the pieces for a top 5 oline, especially in year 1.

 

If we are league average that's a huge step up and we all should be thrilled with that.  Individually the Cowboys Oline have top of the league players at LT / C / RG between Smith / Fredrick / Martin.  Maybe Morse is there, though most place him only in the "very good" category, but otherwise I don't think we have anywhere near a top 5 individual piece at any one position.  Really tough for the "sum to be better than the parts" by a huge margin the first year together.

Normally I would agree. Buffalo however has don e a nice job building around Allen (on paper anyway )  who has the pocket awareness and athleticism to make the leap possible IMO.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Figster

[CuddyDark]

So far Beane has more failures as free agents then successes so we'll see is the appropriate answer.

[Shaw66]

Others have said that the free agent s I goings were mostly marginal players, backups, etc.  That's generally true.  But I saw an interesting thing a month ago from some coach or GM who said that lineman coming out of college are generally unable to play immediately 9in the NFL.  There are exceptions, of course, but they generally don't come with the skills they need, and the only way to get the skills is to play.  He said there's so little contact now in training camp and practice that linemen kneed a lot of time on the field in games to learn.  Like a few years.

 

So that's something that is promising about the Bills' free agent linrmen.  They've been in the league a few years and they've gotten a reasonable amount of playing time.  So the chances are that some of them are ready to blossom.  For example, just as one scenario

 

Dawson takes a step forward at LT, Morse is what we expect in the center, two free agents with experience take guard spots.  That just leaves one youngster, and he will get the benefit of veterans all around him.  

 

That collected experience should contribute to the improvement this year. 

[US Egg]

If the O-line improves to half of 31st at seasons end it be a huge improvement. If "D" plays at the same level this year, things should be looking real good. 

 

(.....yeah, that's what I meant, 15.5)

Edited April 29, 2019 by I am the egg man

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

23 minutes ago, Figster said:

I've never been more excited about the Bills Oline.

 

The gritty, pit bull personality of Cody Ford won my heart over immediately.

 

 

 

Sounded like he really wanted to be in a bills Uni too.  Stated it was his first choice or something to the effect. 

 

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I hope they prove me wrong, but I think it's ridiculous to claim we have the pieces for a top 5 oline, especially in year 1.

 

If we are league average that's a huge step up and we all should be thrilled with that.  Individually the Cowboys Oline have top of the league players at LT / C / RG between Smith / Fredrick / Martin.  Maybe Morse is there, though most place him only in the "very good" category, but otherwise I don't think we have anywhere near a top 5 individual piece at any one position.  Really tough for the "sum to be better than the parts" by a huge margin the first year together.

Part of it is we were so bereft of talent last yr, the contrast makes the new guys appear perhaps stronger than they are. Nonetheless, I still think league average is their floor.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Others have said that the free agent s I goings were mostly marginal players, backups, etc.  That's generally true.  But I saw an interesting thing a month ago from some coach or GM who said that lineman coming out of college are generally unable to play immediately 9in the NFL.  There are exceptions, of course, but they generally don't come with the skills they need, and the only way to get the skills is to play.  He said there's so little contact now in training camp and practice that linemen kneed a lot of time on the field in games to learn.  Like a few years.

 

So that's something that is promising about the Bills' free agent linrmen.  They've been in the league a few years and they've gotten a reasonable amount of playing time.  So the chances are that some of them are ready to blossom.  For example, just as one scenario

 

Dawson takes a step forward at LT, Morse is what we expect in the center, two free agents with experience take guard spots.  That just leaves one youngster, and he will get the benefit of veterans all around him.  

 

That collected experience should contribute to the improvement this year. 

 

When Beane spoke on this he said almost the same exact thing. 

 

Likes guys that that have shown they can do it at this level.

 

 

Also as an aside: If you look across the depth chart now you can see a pipeline of similar players. You could almost project that you can plug one in for the other in a season or two in some cases. Not QB, maybe not others, bu there is a pattern here. 

 

Tyree similar to Josh 

Easily similar to Beasley 

foster similar to jones 

Singletary similar to McCoy 

Vosean similar to Milano 

Joquan similar to Poyer 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Figster]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Part of it is we were so bereft of talent last yr, the contrast makes the new guys appear perhaps stronger than they are. Nonetheless, I still think league average is their floor.

This is where I am at...

[Buffalo Boy]

On 4/28/2019 at 2:00 AM, Richard Noggin said:

Run game I think has to improve with new/improved linemen and new/improved coaching (I mean Castillo, amIright?).

 

Allen having loads of time behind the line probably has a lot to do with how defenses play him this season. Will they man-up and send pressure often to speed up his decision-making? Or will they sit back in zones and make him take what's given? It will be interesting to watch unfold.

 

We can reasonably expect the line to better handle stunts and twists and zone-blitzes; they had a rough time with those last season, especially with Groy in the pivot. Morse is key here, as are more savvy interior vets like Spain, Long, et al. 

 

How Allen and the offense execute against defenses designed to beat him/them will be fascinating. 

You are right about coaching.

I don’t think JA is a world beater yet but with his ability to drive the ball and his lack of fear doing it, coupled with receivers who can actually catch; I expect a better product.

Add his ability to run and IF this team figures out it’s identity I expect entertaining offensive football like we haven’t seen in years.

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

 

Also as an aside: If you look across the depth chart now you can see a pipeline of similar players. You could almost project that you can plug one in for the other in a season or two in some cases. Not QB, maybe not others, bu there is a pattern here. 

 

Tyree similar to Josh 

Easily similar to Beasley 

foster similar to jones 

Singletary similar to McCoy 

Vosean similar to Milano 

Joquan similar to Poyer 

That's really interesting.  Hadn't made the connection.

 

Offensive line - nasty.

 

LInebackers - speed.  

 

There is a mold.  

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

It's safe to say the O-line has been vastly improved compared to last season. 

 

I also think it's safe to say we won't have a top 5 unit. Even if everything works out I'd be surprised if we cracked the top 10. Somewhere in the 10-15 range seems like best case scenario to me. 

[T master]

Agree with all you have said & most of all that Beane gets it !! It all starts in the trenches you can be a Tom Brady but if you don't have protection up front

u aint S**T !

 

I will be very interested to see what & who is on the O line this year ! Chemistry, Talent, & scheme have a lot to do with how this will play out & Beane has given Dabol everything he needs to succeed as a O coordinator now he just has to make it work ! 

 

But i'm with you in thinking given what they have acquired there is no reason what so ever that we can't have at least a top 10 O line if not higher !! Go Bills !! 

 

Good post !! 

[IgotBILLStopay]

On 4/27/2019 at 4:19 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

When the season was over last year we all knew that upgrading the O-line was the single most important thing on Beane's to-do list.  It looks like he felt the same way.  With the addition of no less than seven new O-lineman, I think we may have upgraded the teams biggest weakness into one of its major strengths in just one off season.

 

I think the last truly dominant O-line in the NFL was the 2016 Cowboys.  They were maulers and helped rookie Zeke Elliott to over 1,600 yards rushing and helped rookie Dak Prescott look like an All Pro, franchise QB.  There's a link below for a great article that really digs into the incredible stats for that Dallas 2016 O-line.  

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784248/article/offensive-line-of-the-year-dallas-cowboys-lived-up-to-the-hype

 

I remember watching the Dallas offense tear it up that season and wondering why more teams don't invest in their O-lines like Dallas did?  Why the Bills never seemed to make that common sense investment? I know O-linemen are not flashy or sexy like skill position players, but everyone knows that the offense lives and dies by two things, QB play, and O-line performance, and the QB play is dictated in large part by how well the O-line plays.

 

I think a lot of GMs feel the need to keep the fans happy (and hopefully keep their jobs) by making splashy skill position signings and don't invest in the O-line. Does the average fan get stoked about an offensive guard signing?  It looks like Beane gets it though.  Enter Cody Ford.  It might have seemed that we were set at O-line after a free agency where we brought in six O-linemen, but I think Beane is determined to place not just a solid O-line in front of Allen, but a dominant O-line, a line like Prescott had in 2016. 

 

That's why they turned in an envelop with Cody Ford's name on it with the 38th pick.  A right tackle instead of a flashy WR or TE.  With any luck, Ford is the Bill's starting RT for the next ten years.  By all accounts Cody Ford plays nasty and this line has been in dire need of a little bit of nasty since Incognito left.

 

I think that when all the dust settles, we will have gone from the 31st ranked O-line in the league last year to a top 5 line this year.  I think every part of our offense will flourish this year because of it.  Beane gets it, find your franchise quarterback and then build the trenches, everything else will follow.

 

They do look good on paper. The key will be the chemistry they develop. More than any other position group, the Oline needs to work together since one weak link can spoil all the hard work.