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Inigo Montoya

New O-Line; From 31st to top 5 in one off season?

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On 4/27/2019 at 5:48 AM, Buffalo Boy said:

 

   I get the distinct impression J Allen will have the repeated opportunity, by mid year, to just hang out behind this line, with ridiculous amounts of time, waiting for players to come open.

 

And then taking off when no one does.

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3 hours ago, papazoid said:

Top 5  O-line unit ?

 

find that hard to believe......likely Top 15.....even that is a huge and much needed improvement.

 

I love our depth.....just not blown away by the starters except for the new center. Morse is only one who would individually be ranked in Top 15 at his position.

I disagree, I think Nysecki plays LT and Dawkins will be a top LG. 

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On 4/27/2019 at 7:28 AM, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Dawkins  Spain  Morse  Ford  Nsekhe

 

Those are probably the top 5.

 

Ford goes to RT 2020 season 

My guess as well. This is a serious challenge as virtually all our new OL can play anywhere. McDermott alluded to it in the post draft presser. “Continuity, Communication, Chemistry”. They have to decide relatively quickly who’s playing where and stick with it to develop the ‘3 C’s’. We can all use conjecture, but if they screw it up it could be disastrous. Every DLine we face will try to mess with the fact we’re still learning who we’re playing with. 

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Even if they go from #31 to around near the tenth spot, it would be a HUGE improvement. That means a few more holes for the runs, a few more running down he clock drives, a few more long passes, a few more TDs. Add these up, and a 6-10 season becomes a 10-6. If they are top 5? *Drools*

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On 4/27/2019 at 3:07 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I think Dawkins ends up being the odd man out.  He was the best of a bad lot last year and I think he gets beat out and ends up being the reserve swing tackle.  

 

Nsekhe / Spain / Morse / Long / Ford

 

Just my guess.  

 

The Battle of the O-Line is going to be incredible this year and improved O-Line play should really push the defense to be better as well going against them in practice all week.

 

It will be fun to watch the new OL and DL going at each other in camp!

1 hour ago, Jerome007 said:

Even if they go from #31 to around near the tenth spot, it would be a HUGE improvement. That means a few more holes for the runs, a few more running down he clock drives, a few more long passes, a few more TDs. Add these up, and a 6-10 season becomes a 10-6. If they are top 5? *Drools*

In NFL, the QB makes the Line better and the Line makes the QB better.  So we need improvement in both....QB play as well as OL play.   The complimentary players need to step up to the occasion.

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On 4/27/2019 at 9:02 AM, CaptnCoke11 said:

In no scenario do i see Long starting anywhere on the line.  He’ll be back up to all interior spots.  Dawkins spot is shaky at best right now.  

I can see Long starting at RG next to Nsekhe. However, only reason I view that as a possibility is that they’ve played together on the Skins. For that to happen the sum will have to be greater than the parts. In general I agree with you. Long was signed to take Groys role. 

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However it works out, I see it as follows:

 

Morse / Dawkins / Spain / Ford / Nsekhe

 

Waddle as Swing Tackle

 

Long as primary backup G/C

 

Thats a talented, and deep, OL.  

 

I do hope we dont play around too much with lineups during the preseason because these dudes need to gel facing that Jets Front 7 Week 1. 

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1 hour ago, SCBills said:

However it works out, I see it as follows:

 

Morse / Dawkins / Spain / Ford / Nsekhe

 

Waddle as Swing Tackle

 

Long as primary backup G/C

 

Thats a talented, and deep, OL.  

 

I do hope we dont play around too much with lineups during the preseason because these dudes need to gel facing that Jets Front 7 Week 1. 

I see this as well 

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I don't know about top 5. That requires that Dawkins takes the big step he should have taken last year and Ford lives up to expectations or exceeds them. Then we need at leaqst 1 more G to become a real monster -- either Long or Teller. Still, the improvement in this unit is exceptional. bean said they'd get this done and they sure did.

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On 4/27/2019 at 5:35 AM, Doc Brown said:

It's going to take them a while to mesh and even if they do they're pry not top 5.  They have the potential to be in that 6 to 10 range though.  Mitch Morse is the only elite player on the line.  Dawkins, Spain, and Ford have the potential to be.  I'm hoping Nsekhe (I butchered the name but I don't care) orLong step up to be that fifth guy.  I've wanted Dawkins to move to guard since he's gotten here and I'm hoping the opening day roster is Nsekhe/Dawkins/Morse/Spain/Ford if all goes well.

That's my big concern with the O-line.  With so many new faces, it's going to take a while to figure out the best combination, but they need to get that figured out quickly so they can work at developing chemistry and becoming a cohesive unit.  How do you accomplish both objectives?  The good news is the guys they signed are all pretty smart players.  Even the guy they drafted, Ford is very smart and technically proficient.  That should help accelerate the learning curve.

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37 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

That's my big concern with the O-line.  With so many new faces, it's going to take a while to figure out the best combination, but they need to get that figured out quickly so they can work at developing chemistry and becoming a cohesive unit.  How do you accomplish both objectives?  The good news is the guys they signed are all pretty smart players.  Even the guy they drafted, Ford is very smart and technically proficient.  That should help accelerate the learning curve.

That is why they have Minicamp and Training Camp before the real bullets fly.

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On 4/27/2019 at 7:17 AM, vincec said:

They're going to give Dawkins every opportunity to keep the job. I don't think Nsekhe beats him out.

 

OL is an area where cohesion is very important so I would expect a period of adjustment, trial and error before a group of 5 emerges and begins to gel. So the first half of the season will be interesting. Then we can see what they've put together at OL.

We will likely trade at least 1 guy and we will go on to play well for a SB contender.

On 4/28/2019 at 3:02 AM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Just to be contrarian im going to keep Teller at LG .

 

 

Teller could be very good this year.

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Starting lineup better, depth WAY better.  Most of the starters from a year ago couldn't sniff this roster.

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12 hours ago, ganesh said:

That is why they have Minicamp and Training Camp before the real bullets fly.

I have heard coaching staffs say that very little evaluation and decision making goes on in OTAs and minicamp.  The spring is for teaching, especially new guys on the team.  For veterans, a lot may be review, but when you have a new coach (Bobby Johnson - offensive line coach) he will have his own nuances and ideas that he will need to to introduce even to the few holdovers on the offensive line.  Yes, training camp is where lineup decisions and the development of chemistry and cohesion will need to take place, but the longer it takes to set the starting lineup, the less time will be available for the development of chemistry/cohesion.  That was actually part of the problem last year.  That's why I hope Bobby Johnson/Daboll/McDermott can settle on a starting 5 quickly.

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Very difficult to build a top 5 line from scratch in one year.  I think your expectations are a bit high.

 

Is it possible?  Yes. There's leadership with Morse.  There's good experience with all the free agents. So the ingredients are there.

 

But it's a new line coach.  And the linemen have no experience together.  It may take more than a year to blend into a god unit.  

 

More likely scenario is that the 2020 line 8s good, with 3 or 4 ca%yours from 2019 and 1 or 2 upgrades.  Thats when you'll have a combination of talent and experience together. 

 

I'm expecting a better line in 2019 but not top 5.  

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I've never been more excited about the Bills Oline.

 

The gritty, pit bull personality of Cody Ford won my heart over immediately.

 

 

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I hope they prove me wrong, but I think it's ridiculous to claim we have the pieces for a top 5 oline, especially in year 1.

 

If we are league average that's a huge step up and we all should be thrilled with that.  Individually the Cowboys Oline have top of the league players at LT / C / RG between Smith / Fredrick / Martin.  Maybe Morse is there, though most place him only in the "very good" category, but otherwise I don't think we have anywhere near a top 5 individual piece at any one position.  Really tough for the "sum to be better than the parts" by a huge margin the first year together.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I hope they prove me wrong, but I think it's ridiculous to claim we have the pieces for a top 5 oline, especially in year 1.

 

If we are league average that's a huge step up and we all should be thrilled with that.  Individually the Cowboys Oline have top of the league players at LT / C / RG between Smith / Fredrick / Martin.  Maybe Morse is there, though most place him only in the "very good" category, but otherwise I don't think we have anywhere near a top 5 individual piece at any one position.  Really tough for the "sum to be better than the parts" by a huge margin the first year together.

Normally I would agree. Buffalo however has don e a nice job building around Allen (on paper anyway )  who has the pocket awareness and athleticism to make the leap possible IMO.

Edited by Figster

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So far Beane has more failures as free agents then successes so we'll see is the appropriate answer.

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Others have said that the free agent s I goings were mostly marginal players, backups, etc.  That's generally true.  But I saw an interesting thing a month ago from some coach or GM who said that lineman coming out of college are generally unable to play immediately 9in the NFL.  There are exceptions, of course, but they generally don't come with the skills they need, and the only way to get the skills is to play.  He said there's so little contact now in training camp and practice that linemen kneed a lot of time on the field in games to learn.  Like a few years.

 

So that's something that is promising about the Bills' free agent linrmen.  They've been in the league a few years and they've gotten a reasonable amount of playing time.  So the chances are that some of them are ready to blossom.  For example, just as one scenario

 

Dawson takes a step forward at LT, Morse is what we expect in the center, two free agents with experience take guard spots.  That just leaves one youngster, and he will get the benefit of veterans all around him.  

 

That collected experience should contribute to the improvement this year. 

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Posted (edited)

If the O-line improves to half of 31st at seasons end it be a huge improvement. If "D" plays at the same level this year, things should be looking real good. 

 

(.....yeah, that's what I meant, 15.5)

Edited by I am the egg man

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23 minutes ago, Figster said:

I've never been more excited about the Bills Oline.

 

The gritty, pit bull personality of Cody Ford won my heart over immediately.

 

 

 

Sounded like he really wanted to be in a bills Uni too.  Stated it was his first choice or something to the effect. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I hope they prove me wrong, but I think it's ridiculous to claim we have the pieces for a top 5 oline, especially in year 1.

 

If we are league average that's a huge step up and we all should be thrilled with that.  Individually the Cowboys Oline have top of the league players at LT / C / RG between Smith / Fredrick / Martin.  Maybe Morse is there, though most place him only in the "very good" category, but otherwise I don't think we have anywhere near a top 5 individual piece at any one position.  Really tough for the "sum to be better than the parts" by a huge margin the first year together.

Part of it is we were so bereft of talent last yr, the contrast makes the new guys appear perhaps stronger than they are. Nonetheless, I still think league average is their floor.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Others have said that the free agent s I goings were mostly marginal players, backups, etc.  That's generally true.  But I saw an interesting thing a month ago from some coach or GM who said that lineman coming out of college are generally unable to play immediately 9in the NFL.  There are exceptions, of course, but they generally don't come with the skills they need, and the only way to get the skills is to play.  He said there's so little contact now in training camp and practice that linemen kneed a lot of time on the field in games to learn.  Like a few years.

 

So that's something that is promising about the Bills' free agent linrmen.  They've been in the league a few years and they've gotten a reasonable amount of playing time.  So the chances are that some of them are ready to blossom.  For example, just as one scenario

 

Dawson takes a step forward at LT, Morse is what we expect in the center, two free agents with experience take guard spots.  That just leaves one youngster, and he will get the benefit of veterans all around him.  

 

That collected experience should contribute to the improvement this year. 

 

When Beane spoke on this he said almost the same exact thing. 

 

Likes guys that that have shown they can do it at this level.

 

 

Also as an aside: If you look across the depth chart now you can see a pipeline of similar players. You could almost project that you can plug one in for the other in a season or two in some cases. Not QB, maybe not others, bu there is a pattern here. 

 

Tyree similar to Josh 

Easily similar to Beasley 

foster similar to jones 

Singletary similar to McCoy 

Vosean similar to Milano 

Joquan similar to Poyer 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood
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19 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Part of it is we were so bereft of talent last yr, the contrast makes the new guys appear perhaps stronger than they are. Nonetheless, I still think league average is their floor.

This is where I am at...

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