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Inigo Montoya

New O-Line; From 31st to top 5 in one off season?

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On 4/28/2019 at 2:00 AM, Richard Noggin said:

Run game I think has to improve with new/improved linemen and new/improved coaching (I mean Castillo, amIright?).

 

Allen having loads of time behind the line probably has a lot to do with how defenses play him this season. Will they man-up and send pressure often to speed up his decision-making? Or will they sit back in zones and make him take what's given? It will be interesting to watch unfold.

 

We can reasonably expect the line to better handle stunts and twists and zone-blitzes; they had a rough time with those last season, especially with Groy in the pivot. Morse is key here, as are more savvy interior vets like Spain, Long, et al. 

 

How Allen and the offense execute against defenses designed to beat him/them will be fascinating. 

You are right about coaching.

I don’t think JA is a world beater yet but with his ability to drive the ball and his lack of fear doing it, coupled with receivers who can actually catch; I expect a better product.

Add his ability to run and IF this team figures out it’s identity I expect entertaining offensive football like we haven’t seen in years.

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39 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

 

Also as an aside: If you look across the depth chart now you can see a pipeline of similar players. You could almost project that you can plug one in for the other in a season or two in some cases. Not QB, maybe not others, bu there is a pattern here. 

 

Tyree similar to Josh 

Easily similar to Beasley 

foster similar to jones 

Singletary similar to McCoy 

Vosean similar to Milano 

Joquan similar to Poyer 

That's really interesting.  Hadn't made the connection.

 

Offensive line - nasty.

 

LInebackers - speed.  

 

There is a mold.  

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It's safe to say the O-line has been vastly improved compared to last season. 

 

I also think it's safe to say we won't have a top 5 unit. Even if everything works out I'd be surprised if we cracked the top 10. Somewhere in the 10-15 range seems like best case scenario to me. 

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Agree with all you have said & most of all that Beane gets it !! It all starts in the trenches you can be a Tom Brady but if you don't have protection up front

u aint S**T !

 

I will be very interested to see what & who is on the O line this year ! Chemistry, Talent, & scheme have a lot to do with how this will play out & Beane has given Dabol everything he needs to succeed as a O coordinator now he just has to make it work ! 

 

But i'm with you in thinking given what they have acquired there is no reason what so ever that we can't have at least a top 10 O line if not higher !! Go Bills !! 

 

Good post !! 

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On 4/27/2019 at 4:19 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

When the season was over last year we all knew that upgrading the O-line was the single most important thing on Beane's to-do list.  It looks like he felt the same way.  With the addition of no less than seven new O-lineman, I think we may have upgraded the teams biggest weakness into one of its major strengths in just one off season.

 

I think the last truly dominant O-line in the NFL was the 2016 Cowboys.  They were maulers and helped rookie Zeke Elliott to over 1,600 yards rushing and helped rookie Dak Prescott look like an All Pro, franchise QB.  There's a link below for a great article that really digs into the incredible stats for that Dallas 2016 O-line.  

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784248/article/offensive-line-of-the-year-dallas-cowboys-lived-up-to-the-hype

 

I remember watching the Dallas offense tear it up that season and wondering why more teams don't invest in their O-lines like Dallas did?  Why the Bills never seemed to make that common sense investment? I know O-linemen are not flashy or sexy like skill position players, but everyone knows that the offense lives and dies by two things, QB play, and O-line performance, and the QB play is dictated in large part by how well the O-line plays.

 

I think a lot of GMs feel the need to keep the fans happy (and hopefully keep their jobs) by making splashy skill position signings and don't invest in the O-line. Does the average fan get stoked about an offensive guard signing?  It looks like Beane gets it though.  Enter Cody Ford.  It might have seemed that we were set at O-line after a free agency where we brought in six O-linemen, but I think Beane is determined to place not just a solid O-line in front of Allen, but a dominant O-line, a line like Prescott had in 2016. 

 

That's why they turned in an envelop with Cody Ford's name on it with the 38th pick.  A right tackle instead of a flashy WR or TE.  With any luck, Ford is the Bill's starting RT for the next ten years.  By all accounts Cody Ford plays nasty and this line has been in dire need of a little bit of nasty since Incognito left.

 

I think that when all the dust settles, we will have gone from the 31st ranked O-line in the league last year to a top 5 line this year.  I think every part of our offense will flourish this year because of it.  Beane gets it, find your franchise quarterback and then build the trenches, everything else will follow.

 

They do look good on paper. The key will be the chemistry they develop. More than any other position group, the Oline needs to work together since one weak link can spoil all the hard work.

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The selection of Cody Ford certainly changes the dynamics of the offensive line.  He immediately becomes the odds on favorite to start on the right.  Fortunately he looks like he has the chance to be an exception to the generality that Shaw cites in that he had a  very high level of coaching at Oklahoma and does lots of things well.  He's not going to look like a typical rookie lineman.  It throws Nsekhe's status into uncertainty.  I think he was the presumptive starter at RT until Ford was drafted.  I think now the thinking is he might compete with Dawkins at LT.  That's where he's most comfortable in any case.  Morse at center is a given.  I think Long is probably in the lead at RG.  He would be competing against Feliciano.  Feliciano is tough guy, a mauler, but I think Long has a better rounded skill set, and he is more technically proficient.  Spain might be in the lead at LG, but I'm not counting out Teller yet.  He wasn't great last season as a rookie, but he had enough bright spots to suggest he can improve.  

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If I had to wager I think Nsekhe starts at LT, Dawkins moves in to G, Morse C, Spain RG, Ford RT

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34 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

If I had to wager I think Nsekhe starts at LT, Dawkins moves in to G, Morse C, Spain RG, Ford RT

That could end up being a DOMINANT OL

 

 

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I know they say RT, but just feel like it makes more sense for Ford to end up at RG. 

 

I’m hoping what we end up with is:

 

Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Ford - Nsekhe

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On 4/29/2019 at 5:55 PM, ndirish1978 said:

If I had to wager I think Nsekhe starts at LT, Dawkins moves in to G, Morse C, Spain RG, Ford RT

 

I'll wager against that lineup, if you're down. 

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Doubtful but they could be somewhere in the middle of the pack and that would be a good turnaround. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2019 at 5:35 AM, Doc Brown said:

It's going to take them a while to mesh and even if they do they're pry not top 5.  They have the potential to be in that 6 to 10 range though.  Mitch Morse is the only elite player on the line.  Dawkins, Spain, and Ford have the potential to be.  I'm hoping Nsekhe (I butchered the name but I don't care) orLong step up to be that fifth guy.  I've wanted Dawkins to move to guard since he's gotten here and I'm hoping the opening day roster is Nsekhe/Dawkins/Morse/Spain/Ford if all goes well.

Doesn't take long for O-Line to mesh. When O-Line change you see the results immediately good or bad.

Edited by Boca BIlls

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15 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

I'll wager against that lineup, if you're down. 

I'll bet you a pound of wings at Duff's, although I'm cool with either lineup.

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On 4/27/2019 at 5:24 AM, JoPar_v2 said:

Only starting holdover from last year is Dawkins (maybe?) Even The coach was replaced. Yeah it’s gonna be wild.

Nsekhe starting scares the hell out of me, Mills was a starter..a below average starter...what does this back up do to upgrade the RT spot?????

Spain is horrible...you got more of Ducasse in him ..only difference is a name and number change.

I pray to God Josh doesn't get his head handed to him like he did last year in Houston.

P.S.- The dude from the Jets (long) doesn't sound like high caliber either.0r the guy from the Raiders who was replaced by Richie.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2019 at 5:34 PM, JohnBonhamRocks said:

I know they say RT, but just feel like it makes more sense for Ford to end up at RG. 

 

I’m hoping what we end up with is:

 

Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Ford - Nsekhe

This ^^^^ 

i know they still need a little time to jel 

but man that could be a monster OL 

i think Allen  should/will benefit greatly from all the additions to OL/WR/TE this off-season , 

its hard to think of the last time that I was more excited about the upcoming season 

Go Bills baby !!!!!

Edited by Putin

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2 hours ago, Magox said:

Doubtful but they could be somewhere in the middle of the pack and that would be a good turnaround. 

 

I agree with this. 

 

Anything top 15 should be considered a massive improvement and win. Ill be dissapointed if we are 20th or worse

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Hey, if the Icelanders in the NHL can go from the worst team in goals against in 2018 to the top in 2019, then why the heck can't the Bills go from worst to first in OL rankings?

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On 4/27/2019 at 5:37 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I think Dawkins ends up being the odd man out.  He was the best of a bad lot last year and I think he gets beat out and ends up being the reserve swing tackle.  

 

Nsekhe / Spain / Morse / Long / Ford

 

Just my guess.  

 

The Battle of the O-Line is going to be incredible this year and improved O-Line play should really push the defense to be better as well going against them in practice all week.

 

On paper thats a killer line! Lets hope they gel 

On 4/29/2019 at 12:26 PM, Shaw66 said:

That's really interesting.  Hadn't made the connection.

 

Offensive line - nasty.

 

LInebackers - speed.  

 

There is a mold.  

Defensive line rotation seems to be part of it too

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On 4/27/2019 at 11:57 AM, ProcessAccepted said:

It's hard to completely hold last year against him. He was part of a unit that had all sorts of problems. You OL is only as strong as the weakest link and was there ever a lot of weak links.

 

Like a lot of posters have said, it's going to take time for this group to gel and know how to work with each other. #17's ability to run around will mask things a bit stat wise. But it's way too early to be talking top 5, that's like Rex declaring us winning the offseason every year he was here 😂

 

Well we won the off season in 2017 - he is gone - and this was my opinion from hire that it was a bad decision.  Shame he gets paid $5 million a season.

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On 4/29/2019 at 12:32 PM, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

It's safe to say the O-line has been vastly improved compared to last season. 

 

I also think it's safe to say we won't have a top 5 unit. Even if everything works out I'd be surprised if we cracked the top 10. Somewhere in the 10-15 range seems like best case scenario to me. 

OH no we still suck 

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:00 PM, DJB said:

 

I agree with this. 

 

Anything top 15 should be considered a massive improvement and win. Ill be dissapointed if we are 20th or worse

 

I think our OL will be in the middle of the pack this season - and that will be a massive improvement over last year.  I’ll (probably attempt) to do backflips if we get to above average.  That is possible if everything falls into place and would reflect some excellent coaching.  If we’d have had an OL ranking in that 13-18 range and had even an average WR corps last season I believe we’d have been over .500.  Hoping for that this season. 

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I think this group has a shot at Top 10. 

 

We tend to think other teams have studs all across their OL's..  Nobody, aside from maybe 1 or 2 teams do.  It's typically a couple above average players mixed in with plug n' play guys who fit the system.

 

We clearly have talent on the OL now in guys like Morse, Dawkins, Ford and Nsekhe.   Waddle is a solid swing tackle, Spain & Feliciano have the ability to be those plug n' play guys who fit the system and Spencer Long was actually pretty good 2 years ago in Washington before he played injured at Center for the Jets last year and had a down year.

 

Factor in a new coach, power scheme that fits these players and the addition of Lee Smith at blocking TE, and I think this unit has potential.  The biggest hurdle is getting them comfortable with each other as quick as possible.

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:08 PM, njbuff said:

Hey, if the Icelanders in the NHL can go from the worst team in goals against in 2018 to the top in 2019, then why the heck can't the Bills go from worst to first in OL rankings?

 

The Islanders' is far more improbable.  But I guess that's what happens when a guy decides to get sober.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2019 at 6:19 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

 

New O-Line; From 31st to top 5 in one off season?

 

 

 

Almost certainly not.

 

But serious improvement - particularly in the second half of the year - seems very likely indeed.

Edited by Thurman#1

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On 4/29/2019 at 12:08 PM, TigerJ said:

The selection of Cody Ford certainly changes the dynamics of the offensive line.  He immediately becomes the odds on favorite to start on the right.  Fortunately he looks like he has the chance to be an exception to the generality that Shaw cites in that he had a  very high level of coaching at Oklahoma and does lots of things well.  He's not going to look like a typical rookie lineman.  It throws Nsekhe's status into uncertainty.  I think he was the presumptive starter at RT until Ford was drafted.  I think now the thinking is he might compete with Dawkins at LT.  That's where he's most comfortable in any case.  Morse at center is a given.  I think Long is probably in the lead at RG.  He would be competing against Feliciano.  Feliciano is tough guy, a mauler, but I think Long has a better rounded skill set, and he is more technically proficient.  Spain might be in the lead at LG, but I'm not counting out Teller yet.  He wasn't great last season as a rookie, but he had enough bright spots to suggest he can improve.  


I agree with all of this.

I especially second your notion of not yet counting out Wyatt Teller. I think the staff likes him a lot. 

The REALLY interesting thing is what happens if Nsekhe wins the starting LT job. You want your best five guys out there, right? So does Dawkins kick inside to LG in that case? It's hard to envision him falling out of the lineup entirely.

When the dust settles, I'm guessing it's  Dawkins - Teller - Morse - Long - Ford as the starting unit. Teller beating out Spain being the boldest prediction in that grouping.



 

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