Best ever NFL running back

[Gugny]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, Campbell instead of Bettis for sure.  

This discussion is repeated on message boards over and over, all over the country.

 

You know what discussion DOESN'T appear nearly so often?   Best RECEIVER of all time.   That's a very short discussion.  

 

Obviously that's Zay Jones.

[Greybeard]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Marion Motley was a man among boys in his era and some guy named Thurman led the League in total yards from scrimmage an unprecedented 4 Straight Seasons. So it’s really just in the eye of the era’s beholder.

            In high school and a few years past that, my friends would play a game called Motley.   Basically it was football, which had to be played in the snow or mud, with no passing.  Obviously named after someone in your post.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, BillsFan1988 said:

These comps are definitely like splitting hairs . It's all about preference. I didn't watch OJ or JB live i watched them on highlight videos and they were Supreme talents. Barry on the other hand I watched his career closely and he was the best by far that I ever seen.  I wish he would of took down the record he had a chance for 20,000 yds that would have been unbreakable basically especially with the way RBS are used today in RBBCs.

Yeah, I get it.  All I can say is that if you'd seen them live, there's a chance you'd change your opinion.

 

The thing I often though about Sanders is that he did things that didn't look humanly possible.  Sometimes watching him was like watching some video game fantasy game.  Nobody else has done that.  As I've said, sometimes Shady gets vaguely close, but not really.  

 

I think that aspect of Sanders' play makes him unique among all running backs.  But if you're drafting a team to play in the NFL, unique isn't necessarily the best.  I think a team with Brown or Simpson (and maybe one or two others) has an advantage over a team with Sanders.   All I know is I'd pay to see a game with the Brown and Sanders as the two starting running backs.  

2 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

            In high school and a few years past that, my friends would play a game called Motley.   Basically it was football, which had to be played in the snow or mud, with no passing.  Obviously named after someone in your post.

Motley was another of those man-among-boys guys.   I don't think it was an accident that he wore number 76.

[Iron Maiden]

Another fun back to watch ( not in the GOAT discussion by any means ) was Christian Okoye....The Nigerian Nightmare......When he was on, he was practically unstoppable....

[Logic]

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, Campbell instead of Bettis for sure.  

This discussion is repeated on message boards over and over, all over the country.

 

You know what discussion DOESN'T appear nearly so often?   Best RECEIVER of all time.   That's a very short discussion.  

I think the Receiver discussion should involve who fills out spots 2 through 5, since we all know who number 1 is and always will be.

TIGHT END....now there's a discussion that will produce a lot of different answers.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Fine, add OJ to the list.  You still can’t say he was definitively the best.  And also, what did he win?  At least Sanders made it to an NFC Championship game.

Wait, you're not blaming OJ for not winning the title with those Bills teams, are you?   They were an abysmal team when he arrived and he single-handedly took them to the playoffs for the first time since the franchise joined the NFL.  In his first two years with the Bills, OJ was coached by an idiot named Johnny Rauch, who was too stupid to simply hand the ball off to the best collegiate running back of all-time, whom the team had selected with the first overall pick in the draft.  In his third season in the NFL, OJ was coached by the immortal Harvey Johnson...     

Edited March 29, 2019 by mannc

[BillsFan1988]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I get it.  All I can say is that if you'd seen them live, there's a chance you'd change your opinion.

 

The thing I often though about Sanders is that he did things that didn't look humanly possible.  Sometimes watching him was like watching some video game fantasy game.  Nobody else has done that.  As I've said, sometimes Shady gets vaguely close, but not really.  

 

I think that aspect of Sanders' play makes him unique among all running backs.  But if you're drafting a team to play in the NFL, unique isn't necessarily the best.  I think a team with Brown or Simpson (and maybe one or two others) has an advantage over a team with Sanders.   All I know is I'd pay to see a game with the Brown and Sanders as the two starting running backs.  

U know what I wish and this wish was very close to happening was for the Bills to have signed Reggie White to play with Bruce Smith. Oh my that would of been killer . The pocket would of collapsed like a can of soda being hit on the highway. 

 

Reggie had the Bills on his short list of teams he wanted to go to.  I believe the Jets, Packers were 2 of the others. We would of won those next 2 Superbowls vs Dallas and maybe more. I always blamed Ralph for not going after him.  Maybe this had something to do with Pollan leaving who knows. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by BillsFan1988

[Dat]

All different, but some more love for Campbell, Payton and Dickerson.

 

Not the best but the scariest back who i loved to watch..... Christian Okoye the nigerian nightmare, nobody wanted to see that coming at them.

Original Beast mode but x 30% bigger and nasty.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Dat

[hemma]

Here's a link to a SI article about and with Jim Brown, that included interviews with some of the other backs on the short list of Great.

Belichek's comments make it clear where he stands on the issue.

 

Anyway if you have the time, a real good read:

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/28/jim-brown-cleveland-browns-hall-of-fame-nfl-greatness

 

 

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

U know what I wish and this wish was very close to happening was for the Bills to have signed Reggie White to play with Bruce Smith. Oh my that would of been killer . The pocket would of collapsed like a can of soda being hit on the highway. 

 

Reggie had the Bills on his short list of teams he wanted to go to.  I believe the Jets, Packers were 2 of the others. We would of won those next 2 Superbowls vs Dallas and maybe more. I always blamed Ralph for not going after him.  Maybe this had something to do with Pollan leaving who knows. 

I don't remember that.   That would have been like Brown and Simpson in the same backfield, only better.  There's only one ball to rive to your running back, but there are two paths to the quarterback.   I mean, can you imagine that?  If I'm on the team that starts White and Smith at the two defensive ends, I want to be a defensive tackle.   With the constant double teams on the outside, I'm going to get a lot of good looks at the QB.  

[WMDman]

OJ

[BillsFan1988]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't remember that.   That would have been like Brown and Simpson in the same backfield, only better.  There's only one ball to rive to your running back, but there are two paths to the quarterback.   I mean, can you imagine that?  If I'm on the team that starts White and Smith at the two defensive ends, I want to be a defensive tackle.   With the constant double teams on the outside, I'm going to get a lot of good looks at the QB.  

That's the beauty of it . It's very hard to even double team both unless your playing 12 or 13 personel and that would kill the passing game. Plus they both played on the opposite side of one another so there would of been a natural transition for White. Man we missed out on an opportunity to have arguably the 2 greatest ever to play there position on the same team. 

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, hemma said:

Here's a link to a SI article about and with Jim Brown, that included interviews with some of the other backs on the short list of Great.

Belichek's comments make it clear where he stands on the issue.

 

Anyway if you have the time, a real good read:

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/28/jim-brown-cleveland-browns-hall-of-fame-nfl-greatness

 

 

WOW!!!  Haven't finished the article, but it's great!  Thanks. 

 

It's worth it just for the photo of Ali, Bill Russell, Jim Brown and Kareem.   Incredible.  

[hemma]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

WOW!!!  Haven't finished the article, but it's great!  Thanks. 

 

It's worth it just for the photo of Ali, Bill Russell, Jim Brown and Kareem.   Incredible.  

 

About once a year, I read something and tear up a bit and I don't even know why.

One of those.

[billykay]

16 hours ago, Mojo44 said:

 I remember this,also, growing up in Niagara Falls. Not only was Jim Brown the greatest running back of all time, in my opinion he is the greatest football player of all time. He had to be seen to be appreciated! 

I have to agree with you. Also, perhaps one of the best athletes all time. Besides football, he was an all american lacrosse player. He also started on the Syracuse basketball team. Love me some JB when he wasn't throwing women off balconies.

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, hemma said:

 

About once a year, I read something and tear up a bit and I don't even know why.

One of those.

I almost wrote a post about his run against the Cowboys.  It's described in article.  Most amazing three yard touchdown in history.   As John Wooten described it, they started a sweep to the left and when Wooten, the pulling guard got out there he said "everybody is out there. The end, the tackle, the linebacker, the safety, the corner. Everybody.”  Brown retreated to 10, Wooten says, and then somehow willed himself past everyone into the end zone.   Simply incredible.  

[Bing Bong]

13 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Nope, couldn’t. It hurts to say but Marshall Faulk was simply a better version of Thurman Thomas....  

I'm partial to Marshall Faulk's myself. FWIW he always gave Thurman Thomas props for being the RB he most tried to emulate.

 

He was so dang smart and had great vision. His screen passes were like cheat plays. I don't know if Faulk belongs with Barry and them but I like my cerebral RBs. Faulk and Thurman made their offenses tick.

[RyanC883]

17 hours ago, Roch Jim said:

JIm Brown---hands down. Led the league in rushing 8 of his 9 years. Averaged 100 yards a game. Not flashy like Barry just brutally effective

 

I'd put Sanders slightly ahead of Brown, although Brown is likely the best CFB RB ever.  And he's up there for best college Lax player ever.  

When you need to get a yard, Bettis in his prime was unstoppable.  That doesn't make him the best all-time, but perhaps the best all-time goal-line back.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

59 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, Campbell instead of Bettis for sure.  

This discussion is repeated on message boards over and over, all over the country.

 

You know what discussion DOESN'T appear nearly so often?   Best RECEIVER of all time.   That's a very short discussion.  

Campbell has less than 10K yards rushing and is not in the top 25 all time rushers.  He is an all time great no doubt but Bettis has nearly 5k more yards.

Best TE - Tony Gonzalez and its not close. 

2-5 TE is just as hard as 2-5 WR

[billykay]

43 minutes ago, mannc said:

Wait, you're not blaming OJ for not winning the title with those Bills teams, are you?   They were an abysmal team when he arrived and he single-handedly took them to the playoffs for the first time since the franchise joined the NFL.  In his first two years with the Bills, OJ was coached by an idiot named Johnny Rauch, who was too stupid to simply hand the ball off to the best collegiate running back of all-time, whom the team had selected with the first overall pick in the draft.  In his third season in the NFL, OJ was coached by the immortal Harvey Johnson...     

OJ also had great vision. Can anyone remember his

 ever absorbing a big hit. That's why he was rarely injured until late in his career.

[Shaw66]

31 minutes ago, hemma said:

Here's a link to a SI article about and with Jim Brown, that included interviews with some of the other backs on the short list of Great.

Belichek's comments make it clear where he stands on the issue.

 

Anyway if you have the time, a real good read:

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/28/jim-brown-cleveland-browns-hall-of-fame-nfl-greatness

 

 

Hemma's right - if you're interested in learning about Brown, read this article.

 

Belichick, when asked how Brown would do in the modern, just says "oh, my God" or something to that effect.  Adrian Peterson, the guy Brown thinks is most like him, looks at video of Brown in awe.  Barry Sanders says he couldn't dominate a game like Brown.   

 

It's really an amazing article. 

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Campbell has less than 10K yards rushing and is not in the top 25 all time rushers.  He is an all time great no doubt but Bettis has nearly 5k more yards.

Best TE - Tony Gonzalez and its not close. 

2-5 TE is just as hard as 2-5 WR

I'd venture to guess that NO NFL coach would take Bettis in his prime over Campbell in his prime.  

[Rico]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

The only real argument against Sanders is all the negative runs. People definitely recall the highlights, but what the don’t recall are the 3-4 carries before the 50 yard touchdown. He’d average 5 yards a game, but he had a penchant for negative yardage which was often caused by impatience and a desire to hit home runs. It’s why he often got pulled in short yardage situations and the red zone. Of course people also forget how good a lot of those 90’s defenses were. 

That’s why Sanders is near the top of my most exciting RBs to watch list, but not my best ever list.

[Buffalo Junction]

35 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Shaw and I have the privilege of watching guys from Brown's era and beyond.  So many greats.  No doubt Peterson would thrive back in Brown's day.  But the reason I'd put Brown at the top of my list is if you took him and put him into any other era he would be the best of that time. 

I certainly can’t and won’t take Brown off my list for the reasons you stated. However, I feel that Brown’s physical dominance is also what undermines your argument; at least with those of us who didn’t see him play in person. He simply never played against a modern roster. In the same vein, Peterson never played under the older rules and field conditions. There’s no definitive answer, but that’s why the conversation is fun. 

 

28 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I disagree strongly.  Our Cogs and Wood lines were very good.  Cogs played at an AP level.  The line was probably an exageration.

As a unit the Lions Olines never impressed me.  I believe that is one of the reasons their teams sucked.

We’ll probably never agree on this, although I think we’re recalling different sections of Sanders career. I’ll definitely concede that the Lions never replaced the Oline talent, and that line deteriorated after the 95’ season. Prior to that they suffered from poor depth, but average starters. The problem they had was that none of the D-lines in the NFC north were average then except the Buccaneers before Sapp (95’). An average O-line isn’t going to look good when the front 7 across from them has Reggie White, Sean Jones, and Bryce Paup on it and is anchored by a NT that demands a double team. Same goes for the John Randle and Chris Doleman lead Vikings lines. Heck, Richard Dent was the worst  starting D-lineman on that 93’ Bears team and he made the pro bowl that year. 

[formerlyofCtown]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I certainly can’t and won’t take Brown off my list for the reasons you stated. However, I feel that Brown’s physical dominance is also what undermines your argument; at least with those of us who didn’t see him play in person. He simply never played against a modern roster. In the same vein, Peterson never played under the older rules and field conditions. There’s no definitive answer, but that’s why the conversation is fun. 

 

We’ll probably never agree on this, although I think we’re recalling different sections of Sanders career. I’ll definitely concede that the Lions never replaced the Oline talent, and that line deteriorated after the 95’ season. Prior to that they suffered from poor depth, but average starters. The problem they had was that none of the D-lines in the NFC north were average then except the Buccaneers before Sapp (95’). An average O-line isn’t going to look good when the front 7 across from them has Reggie White, Sean Jones, and Bryce Paup on it and is anchored by a NT that demands a double team. Same goes for the John Randle and Chris Doleman lead Vikings lines. Heck, Richard Dent was the worst  starting D-lineman on that 93’ Bears team and he made the pro bowl that year. 

Brown certainly is not off my list.  I defend my stance on Sanders heavily.  However it is not an easy arguement.  You will see my list in my other post.  You wont find Emmit Smith on that list though.

Edited March 29, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Buffalo Junction]

4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Brown certainly is not off my list.  I defend my stance on Sanders heavily.  However it is not an easy arguement.  You will see my list in my other post.  You wont find Emmit Smith on that list though.

We definitely agree on Emmitt. IMO he’s basically Curtis Martin with a HOF offensive line. 

 

I still put Barry in my top 3. Despite me defending his line, he did what he did against front 7’s stacked with HOF players who were out to stuff him. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Buffalo Junction

[GreggTX]

OJ. Everyone else is a distant 2nd at best. Too bad so many of you never saw him play or you'd have no doubt as I don't. Off field, he was a conceited jerk, bad actor, thief, woman beater and murderer. This is why so many have subconsciously downgraded him. He is the only man to ever break the 2,000 yard mark in a 14 game season. There may never be another RB his equal, ever. You had to see it with your own eyes to fully understand.

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Junction said:

We definitely agree on Emmitt. IMO he’s basically Curtis Martin with a HOF offensive line. 

No doubting the Oline there.  He and Aikmen are two of the most overated players in history because of that line.

[Dat]

36 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Campbell has less than 10K yards rushing and is not in the top 25 all time rushers.  He is an all time great no doubt but Bettis has nearly 5k more yards.

Best TE - Tony Gonzalez and its not close. 

2-5 TE is just as hard as 2-5 WR

Bettis also played 5 years longer.

 

Bettis 13,662 yd / 13 seasons =1050 avg   and 3.9yds/carry

Campbell 9,407 yd / 8 seasons =1175 avg   and 4.3yds/carry

Edited March 29, 2019 by Dat

[mannc]

13 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

OJ. Everyone else is a distant 2nd at best. Too bad so many of you never saw him play or you'd have no doubt as I don't. Off field, he was a conceited jerk, bad actor, thief, woman beater and murderer. This is why so many have subconsciously downgraded him. He is the only man to ever break the 2,000 yard mark in a 14 game season. There may never be another RB his equal, ever. You had to see it with your own eyes to fully understand.

Another thing to remember about OJ:  His first three years in the league were utterly wasted by incompetent head coaches who refused to utlize him for reasons that are too stupid to even summarize.  OJ was 22 years old when he entered the league (there was no way to enter the draft early in those days), but he was 25 years old entering the 1972 season, the first year he was coached by Chuck Knox and utilized properly (or at all, really).  As a result, due to peak Ralph Wilson/Buffalo Bills incompetence, OJ essentially lost what should have been three of the most productive years of his career and never got a chance to really produce until he was at an age when most running backs are already starting to decline.  He had his last great season in 1976, at age 29.  

42 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I'd venture to guess that NO NFL coach would take Bettis in his prime over Campbell in his prime.  

Correct.  In fact, Bettis has no business being in the hall of fame.  He was a good back for a long time, but never a great back and never one of the top three at his position in the NFL.  He is in only because certain people (like Ethan) are enamored with longevity-based stats, rather than on-the-field greatness.     

Edited March 29, 2019 by mannc

[Seasons1992]

Best "only running" back I'VE ever seen (I'm 41):

 

 

Best ALL-AROUND running back I've ever seen: 

 

 

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

Best "only running" back I'VE ever seen (I'm 41):

 

 

Best ALL-AROUND running back I've ever seen: 

 

 

I don't agree in either case.

 

But one of the most amazing things in the history of football is that those two guys just mocking defenders trying to tackle them played on the SAME TEAM IN COLLEGE!!!  

[PlayoffsPlease]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Running over 190 lb LBs....

with facemasking legal and a main way he was tackled. 

[Utah John]

17 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Chris Johnson's 2009 season is my pick for best ever I think

Get back to me when some RB breaks 2000 in 14 games.

[YoloinOhio]

Jordan Howard 

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.   I'm amused that I never thought of it that way.  I try in my mind to imagine Brown playing in a later era, and he'd do great, I'm sure.  But I've never really tried to imagine later greats in an earlier era.  

 

Peterson is a great example.   I think he would have been a monster in the 50s and 60s.   He is like Brown in that he has an amazing combination of speed, power and elusiveness.  Bo Jackson translated back to that era also would have thrived.   And Simpson. with perhaps the best speed of the group and only slightly less power.  

 

Even I'm not old enough to have seen Thorpe, but I think he dominated because of his size compared to the rest of the league.  I know people say that about Brown, too, but in Brown's era there were 300 pound defensive linemen (not as many, granted, but they were there).  And in Brown's era there were other 230 pound running backs, but they couldn't do what Brown did.  

 

I like K-9's comment.  It is a futile discussion, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun.   His conclusion is correct - there are several guys who deserve a seat at the table, and it's a round table.   It's true.  The guys I'd invite to the table are Brown, Simpson, Jackson, Sanders, Campbell.  Maybe Dickerson and Sayers.  For some reason, my emotional response always leaves Peterson out, but my brain tells me he probably needs a seat.   If, using your test - how would he do if he played in Brown's era, those guys all would have been devastating weapons.   Sayers DID play in that era and WAS spectacularly good, and Simpson came shortly after.  

 

One thing about Brown is clear:  he taught the NFL the value of a truly elite running back.  Brown went 8th in the NFL draft. Only one year later, seven teams were wondering what they were thinking.   Simpson, DIckerson, Sanders, Campbell all went right up near the top of the draft.  And that's why the Giants took Barkley where they did.  When there's a guy in the draft who looks like he deserves to sit at that round table, you gotta take him.  

It’s a fun thought experiment, and it’s interesting to see other people’s views and how they remember the players. 

 

As for Thorpe... 6 foot and 200 pounds. His size would translate. The cool thing is that his athleticism is documented thanks to winning two Olympic gold medals (pentathlon and decathlon). His speed is documented... 100 yard dash in 10 seconds flat and a mile in 4:35. Throw in a long jump over 23’ and you’ve got a serious athlete that would probably compete with the combine performances of modern players without any of the advanced supliments and training.

 

A lot of the freak HOF players would likely translate across eras. It’s just hard to say definitively who would be best. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Buffalo Junction
More info

[foreboding]

Easily Jim Brown. A beast in an era when they could hit you anyway they wanted to.

20 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

Best "only running" back I'VE ever seen (I'm 41):

 

 

Best ALL-AROUND running back I've ever seen: 

 

 

To me Thurman Thomas was the prototype for Leveon Bell. Same skillset.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

with facemasking legal and a main way he was tackled. 

 

 

Stop. lol

[Cripple Creek]

Bo

[GoBills808]

Barry Sanders played for 10 seasons and only ONCE rushed for LESS than 1300 yards...that was the year he rushed for 1115 in an 11 game season. 

 

He only had 2 seasons where his YPC fell under 4.5.  And for a full half of his career he averaged over 5 YPC.

 

His first year in the league as a rookie he compiled 1752 total yards, and his last as a 10 year vet he got 1780.

 

He rushed for 1500 or more EVERY OTHER YEAR for his entire career. 

 

His QBs were primarily the eminently forgettable Rodney Peete and Scott Mitchell...he saw 8 man fronts every time he touched the ball.

 

There's really no debate. 

[Direhard Fan]

OJ and Barry

Brown best at throwing women off balconys.