Best ever NFL running back

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

I wasn't around for Jim Brown and Gale Sayers... or OJ, so I can't speak to all time, but Earl Campbell was just a monster on the field.  I'm sure every DB, and linebacker, in the league dreaded Houston Oilers week while he was playing.  

 

 

Side shout out to Joe Cribbs.  Any Bills fan who doesn't know how good this guy was should look him up,  pure electricity in his prime. Willis McGahee dreampt about being as good as Cribbs.  

[Stanley Lombardi]

Tie:  OJ and Jim Brown.  They were different backs altogether; Brown was pure power, OJ was pure poetry.

While Barry Sanders was still near the line of scrimmage, wowing everyone with his moves, OJ was already past the strong safety.

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Get back to me when some RB breaks 2000 in 14 games.

And everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball...

[PlayoffsPlease]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Running over 190 lb LBs....

with facemasking legal and a main way he was tackled. 

One of the most fascinating aspects of this discussion is how few championships these running backs won. 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

with facemasking legal and a main way he was tackled. 

One of the most fascinating aspects of this discussion is how few championships these running backs won. 

Jim Brown won plenty of championships.  OJ never had a chance with the 1970s Bills. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

Just now, mannc said:

Jim Brown won plenty of championships.  OJ never had a chance with the 1970s Bills. 

Brown won 1. 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Get back to me when some RB breaks 2000 in 14 games.

 

It was last done in '73? I wouldn't hold my breath...?

[mannc]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

Brown won 1. 

My bad.  I thought he won more than that.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Direhard Fan said:

OJ and Barry

Brown best at throwing women off balconys.

 

OJ made quick cuts like no one else.  He was a real slasher.

5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

with facemasking legal and a main way he was tackled. 

One of the most fascinating aspects of this discussion is how few championships these running backs won. 

 

 

Posting this twice doesn't make it true...

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

My bad.  I thought he won more than that.

Sanders zero. OJ Zero. Peterson zero. Gale Sayers zero. 

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

OJ made quick cuts like no one else.  He was a real slasher.

 

 

Posting this twice doesn't make it true...

system did that, not me. But facemasking was legal when Brown played. 

[Shaw66]

Joe Cribbs reminds me:

 

The Bills are definitely in the running for best all time stable of running backs.   OJ, Thurman, Cookie, Cribbs, McCoy, Lynch, McGahee, Henry, Bush, Antowain Smith,  and now Gore.   Just about every team in the league would kill to have Fred Jackson be their EIGHTH best all time running back.   

 

Think of this:  32 teams in the league, each team should on average have four running backs in the top 128 all time.   The Bills have 11!!!  And that doesn't include Gilchrist, who could very well be in the top 10 best running backs in pro football history.   Okay, drop out Bush and Gore and count Lynch, McGahee and Smith as one instead of three.  That's still 7 of the top 128, plus Gilchrist.   There is an incredible rushing legacy in Buffalo.  

[Mojo44]

1 hour ago, billykay said:

I have to agree with you. Also, perhaps one of the best athletes all time. Besides football, he was an all american lacrosse player. He also started on the Syracuse basketball team. Love me some JB when he wasn't throwing women off balconies.

 I’ve lived in the Syracuse area since 1980. I’m a big fan of the orange including lacrosse. It is said that a fundamental rule change occurred after Jim Brown played lacrosse. He used to get the ball in his stick,cup against his chest and simply run down the field knocking people down until he got to the goal and then scored. Since that time, reportedly because of this, it’s illegal to carry the ball that way

[Shaw66]

17 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Brown won 1. 

It was a two-division league.  Six teams in a division for the first 4 seasons in his career, seven teams for the last four years of his career.  Over that span, the Browns won or tied for 4 out of 9 division championships.   That's not bad.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

OJ made quick cuts like no one else.  He was a real slasher.

 

 

Posting this twice doesn't make it true...

 

The third time is the charm ? 

[PlayoffsPlease]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It was a two-division league.  Six teams in a division for the first 4 seasons in his career, seven teams for the last four years of his career.  Over that span, the Browns won or tied for 4 out of 9 division championships.   That's not bad.  

Its not otto graham good. 

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Its not otto graham good. 

No, it isn't.

Otto Graham was Paul Brown's Tom Brady.  Oh, and the aforementioned Marion Motley running the ball.   

Brown was a genius on a par with Belichick, although playing a much simpler game.  

[Mr. WEO]

29 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Sanders zero. OJ Zero. Peterson zero. Gale Sayers zero. 

system did that, not me. But facemasking was legal when Brown played. 

 

Yes but it wasn't one of the primary ways Jim Brown was tackled.

[Shaw66]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yes but it wasn't one of the primary ways Jim Brown was tackled.

The primary way Brown was tackled was the first guy missed him, the second guy got stiff armed, the third guy grabbed one leg and got dragged three yards and the fourth and fifth guys jumped on Brown's back.  

 

Sure, it's an exaggeration, but there were more plays like that than you'd think.  

Edited March 29, 2019 by Shaw66

[LeGOATski]

19 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Watching the NFL for 50 years, in my opinion:

1. Barry Sanders - unequivocally the best that I've ever seen

2. Earl Campbell- nobody could tackle this beast and he was very fast as well.

3. OJ Simpson - simply unstoppable on a one dimensional team (no passing game)

 

Gotta agree. I think all three would be great in any era.

 

Sanders is my all-time favorite.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

OJ. Everyone else is a distant 2nd at best. Too bad so many of you never saw him play or you'd have no doubt as I don't. Off field, he was a conceited jerk, bad actor, thief, woman beater and murderer. This is why so many have subconsciously downgraded him. He is the only man to ever break the 2,000 yard mark in a 14 game season. There may never be another RB his equal, ever. You had to see it with your own eyes to fully understand.

I sat in the Rockpile when he was a rookie.  Sat at the homes games in 73.   I saw him, and he was phenomenal.  And I'd still put Brown ahead by a bit.  Because I watched him too.  You had to see Brown with your own eyes to understand.

[Helpmenow]

The juice.

The juice ran on the worst field in the nfl until 73. Sanders had the luxury of the dome.

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I sat in the Rockpile when he was a rookie.  Sat at the homes games in 73.   I saw him, and he was phenomenal.  And I'd still put Brown ahead by a bit.  Because I watched him too.  You had to see Brown with your own eyes to understand.

In '73, the year OJ ran for over 2000 yards in 14 games, Joe Ferguson was the Bills' starting QB, as a rookie.  Fergy averaged 67 yards passing per game, and had a completion percentage of 44 percent.  That's how much help OJ had.  Think he faced few stacked boxes?

[Helpmenow]

Nobody could take it the distance like the juice. Name anybody else who could 80 yards for a TD anytime.

[Plano]

insanity that Barry Sanders and Thurman were both in the same backfield in college.

 

Horrifying, actually.

 

#1 all time for me? OJ. Nobody was better. Period.

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, mannc said:

In '73, the year OJ ran for over 2000 yards in 14 games, Joe Ferguson was the Bills' starting QB, as a rookie.  Fergy averaged 67 yards passing per game, and had a completion percentage of 44 percent.  That's how much help OJ had.  Think he faced few stacked boxes?

OJ is in my top three.  Him, Brown, Sanders.  OJ is the best RB I ever saw live.  His ability to cut and accelerate were unmatched.  He had stacked defenses and also had an incredible O line.  Perhaps you've heard of the Electric Company.

 

It is fun to have these debates.  You could probably put 20 guys on a potential list. And make a solid case as some have here for different guys.  Unlike many here I'm old enough to have actually watched them all.  And to me Brown was the best.  Not by miles, by a bit.  OJ had speed and cutting.  Brown did too but also power.  That edges him out over the others.  The only guy I can think of that might remind me of Brown was Bo, and maybe Campbell.

 

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, Helpmenow said:

Nobody could take it the distance like the juice. Name anybody else who could 80 yards for a TD anytime.

Nobody except Brown.

10 minutes ago, Plano said:

#1 all time - OJ. Nobody was better. Period.

Nobody except Brown.  

[Nihilarian]

Walter Payton !!

 

There was nobody else on those teams and opponents would gear up just to stop him and nobody could! Against Dallas on one Thanksgiving day when the Cowboys were good under Landry, Walter just tore them up all on his own. 

 

Other RBs had good teams around them....1977 Bears had Bob Avellini (who?) at QB 11TDs, 18 INTs. Sweetness rushed in 14 games for 1852 yards. That season they went to the playoffs all on Payton as the Bears best WR was James Scott...who? Sweetness didn't have great talent around him until the very end of his career. 

 

 

The Juice had Joe Ferguson at QB at the Electric Co to block for him, Jim Braxton at FB, JD Hill, Bob Chandler at WR, Paul Seymour at TE.

 

Jim Brown was on Championship teams with Ernie Green at HB, Paul Warfield at SE. 

 

BTW, Thurman kept Barry Sanders on the bench at OSU! Sanders was on five playoff teams with some halfway decent talent with Herman Moore, Johnnie Morton at WR who were both 1000 yard receivers in 1997. PS Frank Reich at backup QB, Pete Metzelaars at TE.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

9 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Walter Payton !!

 

There was nobody else on those teams and opponents would gear up just to stop him and nobody could! Against Dallas on one Thanksgiving day when the Cowboys were good under Landry, Walter just tore them up all on his own. 

 

Other RBs had good teams around them....1977 Bears had Bob Avellini (who?) at QB 11TDs, 18 INTs. Sweetness rushed in 14 games for 1852 yards. That season they went to the playoffs all on Payton as the Bears best WR was James Scott...who? Sweetness didn't have great talent around him until the very end of his career. 

 

 

The Juice had Joe Ferguson at QB at the Electric Co to block for him, Jim Braxton at FB, JD Hill, Bob Chandler at WR, Paul Seymour at TE.

 

Jim Brown was on Championship teams with Ernie Green at HB, Paul Warfield at SE. 

 

BTW, Thurman kept Barry Sanders on the bench at OSU! Sanders was on five playoff teams with some halfway decent talent with Herman Moore, Johnnie Morton at WR who were both 1000 yard receivers in 1997. PS Frank Reich at backup QB, Pete Metzelaars at TE.

 

Then Sanders got the job at OSU... and ran for 2600 yards and 37 TDs... in 11 games.  Gordon came close to the record but it took 14 games.  Same with Ball and 33 TDs - took 14 games.

Edited March 29, 2019 by dneveu

[Helpmenow]

Payton didn’t have the speed as the juice. I just don’t think he had the moves like the juice.

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Nobody except Brown.

Nobody except Brown.  

Did jimmy have long runs like the juice?

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Helpmenow said:

Payton didn’t have the speed as the juice. I just don’t think he had the moves like the juice.

Payton was amazing in a different way.  He didn't have any of the classic attributes of any of the great ones - he didn't have great speed, he didn't have great moves, he didn't have great power, but he had just the right combinations of just enough of all those things that he was a great, great back.  

[Helpmenow]

I saw the juice on muddy fields in person at the rockpile. That was worst field. I think he brought fear to the opposition 

[mannc]

48 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

 

The Juice had Joe Ferguson at QB at the Electric Co to block for him, Jim Braxton at FB, JD Hill, Bob Chandler at WR, Paul Seymour at TE.

 

 

I have no quarrel with your opinion regarding Payton.  But go look at Fergy's stats in 1973, the year OJ busted out for 2003 yards: 67 yards passing per game and a completion percentage of 44%.  Fergy was hardly keeping the defenses honest.   

[Helpmenow]

Jim (Bubba) Braxton was also great to have in the backfield with the juice 

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

I have no quarrel with your opinion regarding Payton.  But go look at Fergy's stats in 1973, the year OJ busted out for 2003 yards: 67 yards passing per game and a completion percentage of 44%.  Fergy was hardly keeping the defenses honest.   

 

Cherry picking. He was a rookie in ‘73 and split time with Dennis Shaw. By ‘75, he was a top QB in the League.

[mannc]

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

 

Cherry picking. He was a rookie in ‘73 and split time with Dennis Shaw. By ‘75, he was a top QB in the League.

True, but three of OJ's five dominant years happened before 1975.  

[Buffalo Junction]

3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

No doubting the Oline there.  He and Aikmen are two of the most overated players in history because of that line.

Definitely one of the most dominant positional groups I’ve ever seen. 

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

True, but three of OJ's five dominant years happened before 1975.  

 

Thats incorrect. He had over 1800 yrds in ‘75 & over 1500 yrds in ‘76. Only ‘73 Season was better.

https://www.profootballhof.com/players/oj-simpson/stats/

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Thats incorrect. He had over 1800 yrds in ‘75 & over 1500 yrds in ‘76. Only ‘73 Season was better.

https://www.profootballhof.com/players/oj-simpson/stats/

How is that inconsistent with what I said?

[row_33]

33 minutes ago, Helpmenow said:

Payton didn’t have the speed as the juice. I just don’t think he had the moves like the juice.

Did jimmy have long runs like the juice?

 

Juice was effortlessly at apparent full speed after a step and then could turn it on if he saw the opening, recently Bell for the Steelers was going a lot slower with his "stutter" and read and then plunge, Juice was doing it at twice the speed of Bell...

 

Jim Brown just ran over everyone because he was bigger than men on the D-line back then

 

 

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Juice was effortlessly at apparent full speed after a step and then could turn it on if he saw the opening, recently Bell for the Steelers was going a lot slower with his "stutter" and read and then plunge, Juice was doing it at twice the speed of Bell...

 

Jim Brown just ran over everyone because he was bigger than men on the D-line back then

 

 

Your description of the Juice is accurate. 

 

Your description of Brown isn't.