Will The Pegulas Decision On Phil Housley Foreshadow the Future Of Beane and McDermott?

[vincec]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Maybe, maybe not, but there's no particular reason to think they actually will be worse than 6-10 next year.

 

Marty Schottenheimer in San Diego went 8-8 and then 4-12 his first two years and then won 12 and 14 games in two of the next three seasons. Mike Shanahan's first three years in Washington were 6-10, 5-11 and 10-6, which is pretty damn good for that toxic environment. Dick Vermeil's first two years in St. Louis he went 5-11 and then 4-10, and then his third year was 13-3. Holmgren in Seattle went 9-7 and then 6-10. Mike freakin' Holmgren. Went 9-7 and then 6-10. Why do those numbers seem so familiar to me?

 

Sean Payton went 10-6 and then 7-9 in his first two years with the Saints. The current Raiders coach, when in Tampa, went 12-4 and then plummeted to 7-9. And then 5-11 in his third year. He did pretty well in Tampa as I recall, didn't he? Sam Wyche went 8-8 and then 7-9 in Cincy before having two seasons where he won ten and then 12 games. Wayne Fontes was brought in mid-year and went 2-3, and then kept on. HIs first two full years he went 7-9 and then 6-10 and then had a 12 and two 10-win seasons, damn good in Detroit. Jim Fassel in NY went 10-6 and then 8-8 and then 7-9 and then in the next four years had a 12 and a 10 win season. Depending on how you count it, Jason Garrett went 5-3 his first year and then 8-8 three straight times. He didn't do as well as he'd done his first year till his fifth.

 

I'm just looking down the list of head coaches and remembering guys who had a turnaround. It isn't all that unusual. And I'm far from finished with the list, as my point is made.

Every one of those guys you listed were winners their third season. McD needs to do that too.

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Those management teams stay consistent because they are winning. Not the other way around...

 

 

Some of both, actually.

 

A lot of times consistency allows management to win. Would you keep a guy who went 1-13, 5-9 and 6-8? You would if you're PIttsburgh and that meant they kept Chuck Noll.

 

Yeah, an owner ought to be looking at what the front office is doing. And if the GM is obviously out of his depth or the coach loses the locker room, yeah, you throw 'em out. But equally, improvement sometimes doesn't immediately show up as wins. Sometimes you have to wait and figure if they're not doing the job, or if they're headed towards a tipping point but just haven't reached it yet.

 

Look at Garrett. I'm no huge fan, but I don't think he's the problem in Dallas. 5-3, 8-8, 8-8, and 8-8. And since then three out of five years with double-digit wins.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

The Pegulas have the Management Yips.  They've made so many bad decisions, and have achieved so little success, that they've effectively "froze."  Terry admitted as much when he said "Something needs to change, but we don't know what."  They don't know what to do, and seem blind or stubborn about bringing in a czar for either organization who would direct them about what to do.  Both organizations have been rife with dysfunction during their tenure, and the "horizontal" (more diagonal) reporting structures they've created have led to chaos and a lack of clarity of roles.  And they continue to learn on the job - and allow rookie GMs and rookie coaches to do the same, all at the fans' expense.

 

They are really nice people.  They may be the worst owners in professional sports.

[Thurman#1]

4 minutes ago, vincec said:

Every one of those guys you listed were winners their third season. McD needs to do that too.

 

 

Yeah, um, no. Go back and look again. Gruden had five wins in his third year and a bunch of the others didn't win in their third season either.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[vincec]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, um, no. Go back and look again. Gruden had five wins in his third year and a bunch of the others didn't win in their third season either.

Shottenheimer, Shanahan, Vermeil, Holmgren, Payton, Wyche, Jim Fassell, Wayne Fontes all won their third year.

Gruden didn't turn Tampa around. He wont the SB year 1 with Dungy's team and then left with them in the toilet. He is your example for success?

Or is it Jason Garrett?

 

Your examples make my point for me. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[Thurman#1]

49 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The Pegulas have the Management Yips.  They've made so many bad decisions, and have achieved so little success, that they've effectively "froze."  Terry admitted as much when he said "Something needs to change, but we don't know what."  They don't know what to do, and seem blind or stubborn about bringing in a czar for either organization who would direct them about what to do.  Both organizations have been rife with dysfunction during their tenure, and the "horizontal" (more diagonal) reporting structures they've created have led to chaos and a lack of clarity of roles.  And they continue to learn on the job - and allow rookie GMs and rookie coaches to do the same, all at the fans' expense.

 

They are really nice people.  They may be the worst owners in professional sports.

 

 

That's a really poor post, and real misuse of a quotation.

 

Not knowing exactly what has to change can be anything from admitting you're frozen and clueless on one side of the spectrum to an acknowledgement that in the real world that's how making difficult decisions in extremely complicated situations generally works on the other side of the spectrum. Or anywhere in between.

 

More, he was referring specifically to the Sabres. That part of your logic was obviously just wrong.

 

As for worst owners, they're not even the worst owners in the NFL, a league with Mark Davis, Daniel Snyder, the Fords ... there are far worse and it's too early in their career to put them very far down the list. If this regime doesn't work out, that would drop them. They still have a lot to prove. But this FO looks pretty solid so far.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[May Day 10]

The sabres have been spectacularly bad throughout housley's tenure, and right now they are finishing with one of the worst stretches in franchise history (the worst quarter season stretch in my 40 years for sure).   Not 1 player has seemed to progress or over-perform in these 2 seasons.

 

Its so bad, the sabres will look foolish if they attempt to justify another season with him.  They will also hemorrhage season ticket holders unless they luck out with another lottery win again.   Inexperienced and clearly in way over his head.  

 

Nhl is also different than the nfl.  Changing coaches doesnt mean a team overhaul whatsoever.  These guys are plug and play

 

 

 

Mcdermott on the other hand is competent and well put together.  A great spokesperson for the team (beane too).  He has gotten water out of a stone at times, especially with the defense, and playoffs aside, 9-7 was a miracle in 2017.  Last year the team also came around and fought after a real bad start.  He seems like he has discipline, yet many players seem to want to fight for him.  A rare combo

 

At a minimum, mcdermott has 2 more seasons

Edited March 28, 2019 by May Day 10

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

And the Sabres have simply quit with 6 games left.  It's been a disaster since Pegula Day 1 for that sad franchise.

 

True.

 

11 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Pro sports is a performance based business and if a player can't do his job he is replaced. Why shouldn't the HC, GM or assistant coach get the same?

 

After last years draft/ FA Beane isn't going anywhere! McD OTOH needs to have a winning season to at least 8-8, 9-7 or better.  

 

Maybe, maybe not.   If Allen busts badly as Paxton Lynch did, that's a problem for both McDermott and Beane.  If Allen only turns out to be mediocre, Beane will probably outlast McDermott for a while.  I think everything for both depends upon Allen.

 

11 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Big difference between Rex and McD: the players and owners have bought into McD's plan. Rex was clueless and it was obvious by the end of his second year that he'd lost the team.

 

Why do the players (and the owners) believe in McD and not Rex? Rex took a top-five defense and decimated it. McD took roughly the same players and rode that defense to the playoffs, in spite of having an anemic offense with a gun-shy QB. Then he (and Beane) dumped the dead weight, cleared cap space, drafted what looks to be a competent QB, bolstered the o-line (on paper, at least), improved the WR corps, and still have ten draft picks to spend. Barring a total meltdown, they get at least two more years, and probably three.

 

 

Since McDermott now has "his" players, he has no excuses.  If the Bills don't win more than 6 games in 2019,  he'll be on the hot seat in 2020.

 

8 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

While I agree that McD has/had a lot of power as he brought in his own GM and the Bills did make the playoffs in his first season as HC.  I look at Rex Ryan and see his first year the Bills went 8-8 and then went backward to 7-8 before he was fired. 

 

Now granted Ryan screwed himself by attempting to run his archaic lame 3-4 scheme that was dependent on elite linebackers that he didn't have...Meanwhile, the Bills defense was better suited for a 4-3 with that superb defensive line. Then instead of rushing the passer with that D line he would rather they hold their blocks while at times dropping into pass coverage  A blind man could see Rex Ryan was a big mouth fool. 

 

 

Still, the 2018 Bills season was marred with blowouts (5)and a run game that stalled more often than not. (His defense crapped the bed in a bunch of games last year). While taking big steps backward to a 6-10 season. Keeping run game coordinator/O line coach Juan Castillo for 2018 wasn't nearly as wrong as giving Nathan Peterman the starting job with all the starting season reps ...much less keeping him as a backup. While the defense was #2 yards allowed those blowouts held the Bills to 18th in points allowed. 

 

I honestly don't think McD will survive another 6-10 season and quite a lot of it will depend on how the season transpires. McD has had two seasons to show he knows how to build a solid team and took a Chan Gailey step backward last year.  I'd have a different feeling about the situation had McD been able to beat the NE Patriots at least once and right now he is 0-4.  In my view what good is he if he can't beat the Patriots at least once in six attempts.

 

It's my take that the Pegula's want to win in the NFL more than most realize. 

 

 

 

I agree with this post pretty much until your last sentence.  I don't think that Pegula is particularly committed to winning in either the NFL or the NHL.  That he not only kept Russ Brandon but promoted him to be head of both the football and hockey organizations says that profit counts for more than winning.  Brandon was promoted despite heading up a football organization that went 82-110 with only 2 winning seasons out of 12, although the Bills were a very profitable business for the Wilson family during that time.  Furthermore, Brandon was fired because of issues unrelated to the performance of either the Bills or the Sabres.

Edited March 28, 2019 by SoTier

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

True.

 

 

Maybe, maybe not.   If Allen busts badly as Paxton Lynch did, that's a problem for both McDermott and Beane.  If Allen only turns out to be mediocre, Beane will probably outlast McDermott for a while.  I think everything for both depends upon Allen.

 

 

Since McDermott now has "his" players, he has no excuses.  If the Bills don't win more than 6 games in 2019,  he'll be on the hot seat in 2020.

 

 

 

I agree with this post pretty much until your last sentence.  I don't think that Pegula is particularly committed to winning in either the NFL or the NHL.  That he not only kept Russ Brandon but promoted him to be head of both the football and hockey organizations says that profit counts for more than winning.  Brandon was promoted despite heading up a football organization that went 82-110 with only 2 winning seasons out of 12, although the Bills were a very profitable business for the Wilson family during that time.  Furthermore, Brandon was fired because of issues unrelated to the performance of either the Bills or the Sabres.

 

 

Excellent point.  No doubt Kimterry would still be writing Russ' annual bonus checks if he didn't get creepy with the staff. 

[Thurman#1]

21 minutes ago, vincec said:

Shottenheimer, Shanahan, Vermeil, Holmgren, Payton, Wyche, Jim Fassell, Wayne Fontes all won their third year.

Gruden didn't turn Tampa around. He wont the SB year 1 with Dungy's team and then left with them in the toilet. He is your example for success?

Or is it Jason Garrett?

 

Your examples make my point for me. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

 

You've got me chuckling here. Talk about a moving target, man. 

 

"I’m trying to think of a coach in the last 30 years who lost more games than the previous season for two seasons in a row and still turned the franchise into a winner. I can’t." Isn't that what you said, just above? Asking for ONE example?

 

So I provide like twelve and out come the justifications and the mistakes. In Fontes's third year, he was 6-10. Ownership didn't fire him. He made Detroit relevant for pretty much the only time in the last 40 years. In Fassel's third year he was 7-9. Ownership didn't fire him.

 

In Garrett's second, third and fourth year he didn't have a winning record, getting eight wins each time. And yeah, Jason Garrett's Cowboys have been a success. In the last five years he's had a 12-win season, a 13-win season and a 10-win season, and they look like they're set up to be good for a while. So yes, he "turned the franchise into a winner," which is what you asked for. They're winners.

 

And again, I didn't look for every example. I went like halfway down the list of coaches and quit because I had a ton of examples.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[nucci]

If they win, they get to stay..if they don't....

finishing 8-8 or 9-7 and missing the playoffs should not be good enough....they signed a number of veterans to compete this year

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, nucci said:

If they win, they get to stay..if they don't....

finishing 8-8 or 9-7 and missing the playoffs should not be good enough....they signed a number of veterans to compete this year

If they fire a regime that has a 9-7 record then the team and its fans don't deserve a winner.  Constantly trying to reinvent the wheel gets you nowhere. 

[Matt_In_NH]

So far I am impressed with what McDermott has done with what he has had.   Other than a nice start to the season, can't remotely say the same for Housely.   I wanted him to succeed but I think he is toast.  McDermott has at least two more years.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

And do it all over again every three years.  I see them getting the five years.  I also am seeing a team being built from the ground up and spending wisely.  Now we have 10 draft picks and still money to sustainably spend each year without going upside down (see Whaley).

 

You can’t quick fix a program.  If over the five years, they don’t consistently improve, yes I agree Bagarang.

 

I don’t think you should just blindly give every regime 5 years. We see teams get turned around much quicker than that all the time.

 

This is a big year for McD and BB. They are out of the dead cap problem they created and we’re able to add a bunch of free agents. Their highly picked QB should make a big leap this year as well. 

 

However, if Allen’s game doesn’t improve considerably and we have another disappointing season then seats should definitely be hot.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The Pegulas have the Management Yips.  They've made so many bad decisions, and have achieved so little success, that they've effectively "froze."  Terry admitted as much when he said "Something needs to change, but we don't know what."  They don't know what to do, and seem blind or stubborn about bringing in a czar for either organization who would direct them about what to do.  Both organizations have been rife with dysfunction during their tenure, and the "horizontal" (more diagonal) reporting structures they've created have led to chaos and a lack of clarity of roles.  And they continue to learn on the job - and allow rookie GMs and rookie coaches to do the same, all at the fans' expense.

 

They are really nice people.  They may be the worst owners in professional sports.

Let's bring in a czar.  Remember when everyone clamored for them to bring in Coughlin as the czar?  That worked out great for the Jags.  Or you could let the young GMs, both of whom trained in successful organizations, actually do their jobs.

Edited March 28, 2019 by oldmanfan

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It's a results based business. Not much to really discuss. 

 

 

[Marv's Neighbor]

14 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

They've already fired Bylsma/Murray and Ryan/Whaley due to poor performance.  If you don't win games you're out.  They better fire Housley.

Totally agree but they keep saying he's safe??

[Ronin]

14 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Listening to Kim and Terry at the owners meetings was interesting.  Despite it being an NFL owners meeting, the majority of questions were Buffalo Sabres related.  Specifically wondering how Terry and Kim will respond to a team with promise that currently is in a free fall.  Many fans are calling for the head of Phil Housley and given how the team has played over the past few months, it tough to suggest otherwise.  

 

A topic that has been discussed in here has been the overall security of Beane and McDermott and the amount of pressure (or lack thereof) they are under to win.  

 

It made me wonder how they’ll respond if the Bills take another step back record wise.  Let’s say they go 5-11 or 4-12.  Does it mean that McDermott and/or Beane will be axed it that they’ll be under the gun in 2020?

 

I’ve always thought that the both Beane and McDermott will be given the full 5 years of their contract.   I also think that the Pegulas are image conscious and don’t want to be the team which constantly fires coaches.  I think when they fired Rex and brought it McDermott they gave him their word that they would have patience and give him time to build his vision.  

 

Based on how Terry and Kim have a the Housley situation, I believe this even more now. I noticed they used the word “patience” on more than 1 occasion and while Terry didn’t use the word “continuity” he basically alluded it by referencing New England.

 

So any fans that want say things like “Fire McDermott” or “Beane should be Fired.”  Will likely have to wait until 2021.  I think these cats are getting all 5 years regardless, under the guise of “patience” and “continuity.”  Yes even if they go 6-10 and 5-11, they still will get 2021.  Only way they leave before this is if there is some kind of falling out or a disasterous Hugh Jackson-like Run.  

 

Make no mistake, McBeane's careers in Buffalo are directly tied to Allen.  

 

If Allen succeeds to the extent that he becomes a franchise QB, they'll be around for their five years and perhaps longer.  IMO winning won't even be necessary as 7-9 to 9-7 will be fine as long as Allen turns into that QB.  

 

If he doesn't however, apart from this team being far from winning anything, they won't last long.  The only question is how long do the Pegulas give to see if Allen works out, which is rhetorical at this point.  

 

If as many here suggest, he mimics Trubisky in his second season and posts an average season as a passer, they'll be around for all five.  If however Allen continues to throw more INTs than TDs, or even close, and continues to struggle in the Red Zone and short-medium to the extent that it's obvious that Allen's become a huge project, I doubt that they see year 5 and the pressure will be coming from varying sources ranging from media to fans to find a new tandem.  

 

You cannot in essence exchange four day 1 & 2 picks, move up to get a QB while ignoring a host of other team issues, have that QB not turn into a franchise QB, and expect to keep your job.  Especially since they bet-the-farm with "their guy" (Allen) that it would render their judgement, against the backdrop of relatively lackluster results in rebuilding the team otherwise, highly questionable at best.  

[Peevo]

They're in a tough spot.  Firing Housley will receive harsh criticism.  "The Sabres are still paying Dan Bylsma not to coach and now they're doing the same for Housley" or something to that effect.

 

Keeping Housley will receive harsh criticism.  "How can a team fail to win back to back games since December retain its coach and be taken seriously?" 

 

They're in a lose-lose hopelessness spiral.  

 

All I want from these people is honesty, which fans rarely receive.

 

Just what the hell ACTUALLY happened when Pat Lafontaine left in mystery following the 2014 trade deadline?  Their organizational plan was flawed from the start.

 

Losing is hard enough on the fans. Having no real understanding of who is making what decisions is worse.

 

For instance, Tim Murray was a loose cannon and poorly represented the team, or did he?  Paul Hamilton of WGR told the "I heard him chew up an NHL official in ear shot of the press box for all of us to hear" story at least 75 times after he was fired.  Convenient that that story was never reported to fans WHILE HE WAS EMPLOYED BY THE TEAM.  If I'm a paying customer, wouldnt I want to know the GM of my overpriced, ***** team is chewing officials out in public?

 

Rex Ryan was a hot head who did embarrassing crap like the Clemson helmet thing, despite having a decent team that had a positive point differential.  So the team overcorrects and hires straight laced Sean McDermott, a family, faith, football Lifetime movie 2 dimensional character trope.

 

The whole thing is a toxic mess.  They have no answers.  It's completely hopeless.  Until Brady retires there really is no hope here. 

 

[Seasons1992]

Mr. Pegula has tried to fix the Sabres with former Sabres. That's his passion. 

He has now cleaned out the Ralph era, and let others handle that business. No Marv as GM, no bringing back former greats to "coach," etc. 

 

I'm Ok with it for now.......we're WAY more relevant with the Bills being good vs. the Sabres.

[Steve O]

2 hours ago, mattynh said:

So far I am impressed with what McDermott has done with what he has had.   Other than a nice start to the season, can't remotely say the same for Housely.   I wanted him to succeed but I think he is toast.  McDermott has at least two more years.

Agreed. Housely simply wasn't (isn't) ready to be a head coach in the NHL. Paul Fenton, current GM for the Minnesota Wild, said as much when he was interviewing for the Buffalo gig and was told how high the rest of the management team was on Housely.

[TigerJ]

I think the two situations are very different.  Right now, the Sabres are seriously under performing the talent level of the roster.  When that happens, it's tough to blame anybody but the coaches.  I think Phil Housley is fine for hockey Xs and Os, but he may be a poor motivator with his quiet demeanor.  If I'm the Pegulas, that's what I'm looking at.  I have a quiet demeanor and I don't think I would make a good coach (assuming I were qualified otherwise).

[OutOfBubbleGum]

Blasphemy!! The Bills aren't going to tank and freefall. When have they ever did that?

[LeGOATski]

The W-L record is one thing. 

 

He also has to take into account how the players are feeling. Does he make time for skip-level meetings with the players themselves?

 

If the players have hope, there's a chance for a turn around. If the players don't believe, then make a change.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

16 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

Listening to Kim and Terry at the owners meetings was interesting.  Despite it being an NFL owners meeting, the majority of questions were Buffalo Sabres related.  Specifically wondering how Terry and Kim will respond to a team with promise that currently is in a free fall.  Many fans are calling for the head of Phil Housley and given how the team has played over the past few months, it tough to suggest otherwise.  

 

A topic that has been discussed in here has been the overall security of Beane and McDermott and the amount of pressure (or lack thereof) they are under to win.  

 

It made me wonder how they’ll respond if the Bills take another step back record wise.  Let’s say they go 5-11 or 4-12.  Does it mean that McDermott and/or Beane will be axed it that they’ll be under the gun in 2020?

 

I’ve always thought that the both Beane and McDermott will be given the full 5 years of their contract.   I also think that the Pegulas are image conscious and don’t want to be the team which constantly fires coaches.  I think when they fired Rex and brought it McDermott they gave him their word that they would have patience and give him time to build his vision.  

 

Based on how Terry and Kim have a the Housley situation, I believe this even more now. I noticed they used the word “patience” on more than 1 occasion and while Terry didn’t use the word “continuity” he basically alluded it by referencing New England.

 

So any fans that want say things like “Fire McDermott” or “Beane should be Fired.”  Will likely have to wait until 2021.  I think these cats are getting all 5 years regardless, under the guise of “patience” and “continuity.”  Yes even if they go 6-10 and 5-11, they still will get 2021.  Only way they leave before this is if there is some kind of falling out or a disasterous Hugh Jackson-like Run.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think its tough to fire either at this point.  They broke the drought with a pretty weak roster - dumped a fair amount of talent that year and still got to the playoffs with a bad offense.  Year 2 had a rookie QB, and just generally felt like a team that was rebuilding from the ground up.  Year 3 should show some improvement, only way i don't see improvement is if there are a ton of injuries.  I think 4 years is the minimum u would give them at this point.  

 

McD also showed he's willing to part ways with ineffective staff members - Castillo, Crossman, Dennison etc.  This to me shows that he's not loyal to a fault like some coaches who would never fire a friend.  Beane and McD appear to work well together so you couldn't fire one without the other.  

[Ronin]

44 minutes ago, Steve O said:

Agreed. Housely simply wasn't (isn't) ready to be a head coach in the NHL. Paul Fenton, current GM for the Minnesota Wild, said as much when he was interviewing for the Buffalo gig and was told how high the rest of the management team was on Housely.

 

Who hired Housely?  

[Steve O]

7 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Who hired Housely?  

Well, Botterill was hired on May 11, Housley on June 15. So, I assume officially it was Botterill, unofficially Pegulas. But I really can't profess to inside knowledge on this, the only reason I know of the Fenton comment is because one of my golfing buddies is friends with him from the days when their kids played college hockey together at UMass. As it often goes with sports parents, they become close, even vacationed together a couple times.

[ndirish1978]

Completely different situations. The Sabres have quit on their coach multiple years while the Bills are playing their hearts out even when the chips are down.

[tbarg12]

For me there are some big differences between where the Bills and Sabres are at franchise wise.

 

The Bills have a GM/Coach combination that seem to be on the same page with Beane getting players via draft/free agency who fit McDermott's scheme.

The Sabres don't seem to have that same cohesion between Botterill/Housley and maybe some of that is Housley's reluctance of utilizing the roster to it's full potential by making adjustments to the lines. 

 

The Bills have Allen entering his second season, and they upgraded the offense from what was fielded last season and I believe that McDermott and Beane's tenure will be determined by how successful Allen is in his development.

The Sabres tanked to get a top pick in Eichel, who seemed to be entering one of his best seasons early this year. The main thing that frustrates me with the Sabres, is the fact that Eichel's talent is being wasted by having Housley in the head coach position. 

 

The Bills seem to find gems with UDFA and PS players, while the Sabres seem to have trouble developing prospects for some added depth in the roster. 

 

Of course I hope both to be successful, I think the Bills are better positioned for success sooner than the Sabres are though. 

 

 

[quinnearlysghost88]

Don't fire Housley. Stop giving these players excuses for not showing up every night. This has plagued the Sabres for years, well before Phil. They're treated like royalty. They get paid. Excuses are made for them. Coaches are blamed. They turn in a losing season and coaches are blamed. 

[BillsfanAZ]

McBeane will be given 2-3 more years depending on circumstances. They have to be given time for their QB to get experienced and to be able to build a team around him. Last year they got their QB but still had to clean up the mess from previous front office. This season is their first season to build the team how they see it with ample cap space and going BPA in the draft. For the first time in a long time, the Bills have depth at various positions. They may or may not make the playoffs this coming season but I get the feeling they will be competitive in every game they play. 

[May Day 10]

8 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Don't fire Housley. Stop giving these players excuses for not showing up every night. This has plagued the Sabres for years, well before Phil. They're treated like royalty. They get paid. Excuses are made for them. Coaches are blamed. They turn in a losing season and coaches are blamed. 

 

I say give it a shot with a real coach like Quenneville.  Take his personal assessment on the personalities at face value and begin to make changes as necessary

 

 

Housley's pedigree as a head coach was/is severely lacking.  He is in way over his head and I don't want the Sabres to make any rash moves conforming around him.  He just isnt worth it.  The average shelf life of an NHL head coach is very brief compared to (at least) the NFL and MLB,... then you move on.   

[blacklabel]

McBeane are here through the 2020 season at minimum. The Pegulas really feel like they've found their guys in Beane and McDermott. They have a lot of mutual respect for one another and ownership is fully on board with the vision McBeane has for this team. 

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

Completely different situations. The Sabres have quit on their coach multiple years while the Bills are playing their hearts out even when the chips are down.

For how long will that be good enough. Again, look at reality...13 FA signings (did I miss any?), 10 draft picks. A second year QB and LB who are expected to improve. With all that IF the team slides back to 5 or fewer wins accountability needs to be assigned.

[ndirish1978]

10 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

For how long will that be good enough. Again, look at reality...13 FA signings (did I miss any?), 10 draft picks. A second year QB and LB who are expected to improve. With all that IF the team slides back to 5 or fewer wins accountability needs to be assigned.

 

and if they win 12 games, they get the credit. What's the point in speculating on things that haven't happened beyond filling some negativity quota.

[oldmanfan]

It's been nice to see the Bills HC and GM in synchrony.  They have a plan and thus far they have been faithful to carrying out their plan.  They dumped players they did not feel met what they wanted (and for the most part seemed like they made the right calls), they cleared cap space to sign guys and to give them financial flexibility to keep some of their younger guys, they maneuvered to get what they hope are their franchise QB and MLB, and they have draft picks they can use to get what they hope are their starts going forward.  Of course we will have to see how things go forward, but it is refreshing to see a plan being executed in as competent a manner as we've seen thus far.

 

As for the Sabres, Botterill is two years in, and it seems like his plan is slower in progression.  When he came in he realized that his predecessor had not paid attention to stocking the organization with young talent, and from what I can see the farm teams have improved so he has a potential pipeline for the Sabres.  For example, the young goalie from Finland may be your franchise goalie next year or the year after.  His choice of HC can certainly be questioned, but then you have the age old question of whether it's the coach or the players.  From what I can see from the limited games I've seen, maybe both but more the players.  I can't ever remember a team so reluctant to hit people; every time I watch a game the opposition sets up camp in front of our net and we do nothing.  If I'm Botterill I dump guys, get guys in with heart and a willingness to be tough, tell Eichel he needs to be strong as the captain and go forward.  Housely can stay or go; not sure either choice is better or worse.  But Botterill has to figure out which young players are his core, and which ones aren't worth the effort. 

 

The owners?  People claim they don't know how to run a professional sports team, but how many owners really do?  where Terry messed up is with his earlier hires like Rex, Tim Murray, etc.  Maybe more on the hockey side because he's so sentimental about the Sabres.  But I think he's seeing that changing things around so much only puts you farther away from your goal.  He's hired two young GMs that each came from solid backgrounds; give them the opportunity to build things correctly and stay out of their way as the owner. 

[D521646]

Outside of the Sabres top line (Which probably ranks in the mid 20's around the league) who else jumps out at you?  How many of those guys make an NHL team?  Although drafting a defensemen 1st overall was applauded around the league, was it really the best pick?  I count the Sabres as my second favorite team in the NHL, and I follow them mostly because I've lived in the area for most of my life, but damn, what is the problem with this team?  Is it really coaching, is it poor recognition of chemistry with who plays best with who, is it the PP1 selections and positions?  Goaltending?  You never know from game to game.  I think coaching has a lot to do with it, for example:  Babcock is misusing both Matthews and Marner on the PP, IMO.  They need to swap positions, Matthews on the right, Marner on the left, IMO.  The Tavares line works well, but not because of Tavs or Marner, that line works because of the chemistry of Hyman and how he is a total team player, completely unselfish.  No surprise that Matthews has struggled at times this year without Hyman.

 

Every team needs guys like that, one on each line.  The GM of the Sabres needs to recognize this, and go out and find some grinders and they'll be fine.

 

As to the OP, I find it really hard to believe the Bills will regress this year, so, no, I see McBean staying.  In fact, although I say it every year (The optimist in me) I really believe the Bills make the playoffs.

 

Tim-

[Cripple Creek]

21 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

and if they win 12 games, they get the credit. What's the point in speculating on things that haven't happened beyond filling some negativity quota.

It’s pretty much what’s done here. What’s the point of sticking your head in the sand and saying it hasn’t yet happened?

 

Have you done a mock draft?

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

If the Bills go 5-11 or worse next season I would expect both Mcdermott and Beane to have very hot seats, and probably be fired (unless there's mitigating factors like injuries to key players).  

 

Edit - I don't think it's very likely that we'll get 5 or less wins next season. 8 or 9 seems more likely (if Allen progresses) and that should definitely be good enough to keep McBeane around for another season. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by DabillsDaBillsDaBills
elaboration

[TheFunPolice]

Is it just me or do hockey coaches around here always talk like they are still a funeral?

 

Monotone mumbling that is depressing to listen to. McDermott is the complete opposite.