Logic Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Discussions about the Buffalo Bills' 9th overall pick have centered around offensive tackles, wide receivers, and three-techniques. I see very little talk about edge rushers overall, and ESPECIALLY very little talk about Brian Burns. Before I get to the player, though, let's look at the Bills roster and success (or lack thereof) in rushing the passer. Before anyone says "it's not a need!", they should consult the Bills 2018 sack numbers: The Bills ranked 26th in sacks. As good as the defense was, imagine how ELITE it could be with an actual pass rush! As everyone knows, McDermott's defense is extremely light on blitz packages. He likes to get pressure with his front four. Unfortunately, as demonstrated by the sack ranking, the Bills front four was not so good at that. Not only can they stand to improve to begin with, but Hughes and Lawson's contracts are both up at the end of this year, and Hughes will be 31 years old. Beane even specifically mentioned recently that sometimes you draft a player because you know that "there may be a position where a couple of guys are up at the end of the coming season". He said this unsolicited, but it sure sounds like he's talking about his DE depth chart. Last but not least, the Bills have been using their high picks on premium positions (CB, LT, QB, ILB), and I don't see that changing. After QB, edge rusher is about as premium as it gets. This brings us to the point of this thread: Brian Burns, edge rusher, Florida State. Burns weights 6'5" and, prior to the combine, played at 231 lbs. He weighed in, however, at 249 lbs at the combine, and the added weight did not seem to hinder his speed, as he ran an incredible 4.56 40. He has elite bend, speed, and agility, a quality pass rush plan, and a bevy of counters and moves. His size, athleticism, and bend make me think of Jason Taylor. Don't take my word for it, though, here's some writeups about him from TheDraftNetwork and some videos. If Burns is still on the board at 9 (and he may not be), he looks like a slam dunk pick that will put the Bills defense over the top.https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/brian-burns 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 He has been in my top 15 pretty much all year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 All I have to say to you is that I KNOW you don't watch enough of Jason Taylor to make a comparison. I effing know it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Really, only defender I understand at 9 is an elite edge rusher. Allen, Sweat, Burns I would get behind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I agree that not enough is being said about the edge guys here, but Montez Sweat has to be a legit option for Beane as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 He's been on my list of "guys I would be happy with at 9" for a while, but even I tend to forget about him sometimes. A very solid pick and player imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 ***** Jason Taylor. I don’t want anyone that reminds me of his overrated #%^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) He is easily an option for us at 9 and has been IMO. There are several guys who could or should be there at 9 I would love taking, so pretty sure I will be thrilled with our pick there no matter what. I trust Beane not to do a "Whitner" or Oakland Raider type blunder, so its going to be someone like Burns, Oliver, Gary, Metcalf, Allen, Sweat, etc. Hard to predict who falls to us, but pretty sure we are going to get one helluva prospect at #9. Edited March 4, 2019 by Alphadawg7 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) Watching Burns in his FSU highlights, he looks way too skinny to play 4-3 DE. I hate to say it, but he is built like Maybin was at Notre Dame- who ironically also played at 230lbs & bulked up to almost 250 for the combine. I know Burns is a much more complete player than Maybin could ever dream of being, but the body comparisons are close. Edited March 4, 2019 by 947 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He has been in my top 15 pretty much all year. I got no problem with it.......just wish we could do it in a trade down I hear the Maybin comparisons which is a little scary.........Maybin was very weak at the point of attack does anyone have any info if they play even remotely the same? Edited March 4, 2019 by John from Riverside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Just now, John from Riverside said: I got no problem with it.......just wish we could do it in a trade down Yes - I doubt very much he is BPA at #9. I'd feel more comfortable moving down a few spots too if we want Burns or Sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1105 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yes - I doubt very much he is BPA at #9. I'd feel more comfortable moving down a few spots too if we want Burns or Sweat. The Packers at 12 will take either Sweat or Burns at 12. You want one you take em at 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 An edge rusher won't surprise me at all for the reasons you point out and they probably feel they won't be picking in the top 10 for a long time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said: All I have to say to you is that I KNOW you don't watch enough of Jason Taylor to make a comparison. I effing know it. I came out of the WOMB watching Jason Taylor clips! I bet I was watching Jason Taylor clips while you were still building Lego dinosaur ships! While you're off at work, earning a living, guess what I'm doing? Yep, Jason Taylor clips. 28 minutes ago, 947 said: Watching Burns in his FSU highlights, he looks way too skinny to play 4-3 DE. I hate to say it, but he is built like Maybin was at Notre Dame- who ironically also played at 230lbs & bulked up to almost 250 for the combine. I know Burns is a much more complete player than Maybin could ever dream of being, but the body comparisons are close. Maybe the body comparisons are close, but that's about it. Maybin was a one-trick pony. He had no pass rush plan, no counter moves, nothing. Burns is not that guy. 25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yes - I doubt very much he is BPA at #9. I'd feel more comfortable moving down a few spots too if we want Burns or Sweat. Really? After his combine, there's some speculation that he'll go in the top 7 or 8 picks. Trading DOWN to get him? I don't see it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said: The Packers at 12 will take either Sweat or Burns at 12. You want one you take em at 9 I agree - I have Sweat in my current mock going at #12 to the Packers. My point is more I suppose that while I wouldn't hate either of these guys at #9 and think they are both very good prospects - I think you are likely passing on superior prospects to take them. It wouldn't be a major reach and it would "fill a need" (I have been a big advocate of taking a pass rushers somewhere in the first three rounds) but to me it is a bit like drafting Jonah Williams at #9. He is a fine player and will be a good pro. But you might have left a potential star on the board. I'd be slightly more comfortable with Burns or Sweat than Jonah because I think Jonah's best position might be guard which is a less premium position than pass rusher.... but they are actually the 11th, 12th and 13th players on my board and I don't have any Quarterbacks graded ahead of them... so it really depends how the board falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Logic said: I came out of the WOMB watching Jason Taylor clips! I bet I was watching Jason Taylor clips while you were still building Lego dinosaur ships! While you're off at work, earning a living, guess what I'm doing? Yep, Jason Taylor clips. Maybe the body comparisons are close, but that's about it. Maybin was a one-trick pony. He had no pass rush plan, no counter moves, nothing. Burns is not that guy. Really? After his combine, there's some speculation that he'll go in the top 7 or 8 picks. Trading DOWN to get him? I don't see it. Yeah, and I bet that two months made all the difference in your Jason Taylor knowledge. M-E-G-A B-L-O-C-K-S. Get it right. I'm certainly MAKING a living, but, considering my time dedicated to this witty response, "earning" is probably a strong term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Logic said: Really? After his combine, there's some speculation that he'll go in the top 7 or 8 picks. Trading DOWN to get him? I don't see it. See my response to gonzo above. I have Sweat and Burns right there together as the 11th and 12th ranked players on my board. If you like both and they are both there at #9 and say Haskins was still on the board and someone offered you a 2nd round pick to move down 3 or 4 spots maybe you do it if you think one or other gets to you? All very speculative I know but depends how the board falls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofton80 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Also good at blocking punts and kicks. He is very good, more Leonard Floyd than Maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, 947 said: but he is built like Maybin was at Notre Dame- Maybin went to Penn State 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Yep, way more moves than Maybin plus superior play strength, with the potential to get even bigger and stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Y. Orangeman Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 23 sack in 25 games.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I agree - I have Sweat in my current mock going at #12 to the Packers. My point is more I suppose that while I wouldn't hate either of these guys at #9 and think they are both very good prospects - I think you are likely passing on superior prospects to take them. It wouldn't be a major reach and it would "fill a need" (I have been a big advocate of taking a pass rushers somewhere in the first three rounds) but to me it is a bit like drafting Jonah Williams at #9. He is a fine player and will be a good pro. But you might have left a potential star on the board. I'd be slightly more comfortable with Burns or Sweat than Jonah because I think Jonah's best position might be guard which is a less premium position than pass rusher.... but they are actually the 11th, 12th and 13th players on my board and I don't have any Quarterbacks graded ahead of them... so it really depends how the board falls. A couple of things I would like to see - Pick up McCoy from the bucs.....and still try to sign our ex Dolphin DT - We need pass rush badly......so wouldnt be against this at all.......it would also take the pressure off of hughes who has basically BEEN our pass rush But if we do this....we better be full court pressing to improve this offensive line in free agency....because we NEED skill position players on offense starting in the 2nd (and they will be there) if we are gonna draft a Burns in the 1st round. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I could see this. The Taylor comp is about right, he is kind of built like a defensive back like Taylor. He seems to have a good first step, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: I got no problem with it.......just wish we could do it in a trade down I hear the Maybin comparisons which is a little scary.........Maybin was very weak at the point of attack does anyone have any info if they play even remotely the same? Also, Maybin was a one year wonder. At least Burns has played at a higher level for 3 years in college Maybin https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aaron-maybin-1.html Burns https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brian-burns-2.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 24 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: A couple of things I would like to see - Pick up McCoy from the bucs.....and still try to sign our ex Dolphin DT - We need pass rush badly......so wouldnt be against this at all.......it would also take the pressure off of hughes who has basically BEEN our pass rush But if we do this....we better be full court pressing to improve this offensive line in free agency....because we NEED skill position players on offense starting in the 2nd (and they will be there) if we are gonna draft a Burns in the 1st round. Agreed. I've been hoping we attack o line hard in free agency anyways but we absolutely gotta if this is a planned scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 All depends on what we do in FA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 If we can't trade down I wouldn't mind an edge guy. I would absolutely love if Josh Allen fell in our laps, but that seems unlikely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I love Brian Burns. Might be too light to play in McD's system though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: I love Brian Burns. Might be too light to play in McD's system though. He is a little light right now, but have him start as mostly a situational rusher and by year 2 he'll just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I like Burns a lot - just not in the top 10. Maybe after a trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I like Clelin Ferrell a lot more, but kinda doubt Ferrell would be there at 9 though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 7 hours ago, 947 said: Watching Burns in his FSU highlights, he looks way too skinny to play 4-3 DE. I hate to say it, but he is built like Maybin was at Notre Dame- who ironically also played at 230lbs & bulked up to almost 250 for the combine. I know Burns is a much more complete player than Maybin could ever dream of being, but the body comparisons are close. That is what he looks like in build and as you said he bulked up for the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) With at least two and possibly three quarterbacks going ahead of us we should be able to grab an elite talent at 9. If we can grab two O-linemen in free agency then I think an EDGE or WR should be on the table. If we can't grab two O-lineman in free agency, we have to grab the best O-linemen left on the board, either Willams or Taylor. The O-line is not sexy like an EDGE or WR but the O-line is the foundation of our offense. We have to solidify the O-line this year. There will likely be four new starters on the O-line this season. They will need all the snaps together they can get at OTAs, camp, preseason, and likely a quarter of the regular season to gel and work as a unit. This needs to be the year of the O-line at One Bills Drive. We can not go into another year with a bad O-line and our franchise quarterback running for his life every other snap with no running game. Edited March 5, 2019 by Inigo Montoya 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Logic said: Discussions about the Buffalo Bills' 9th overall pick have centered around offensive tackles, wide receivers, and three-techniques. I see very little talk about edge rushers overall, and ESPECIALLY very little talk about Brian Burns. Before I get to the player, though, let's look at the Bills roster and success (or lack thereof) in rushing the passer. Before anyone says "it's not a need!", they should consult the Bills 2018 sack numbers: The Bills ranked 26th in sacks. As good as the defense was, imagine how ELITE it could be with an actual pass rush! As everyone knows, McDermott's defense is extremely light on blitz packages. He likes to get pressure with his front four. Unfortunately, as demonstrated by the sack ranking, the Bills front four was not so good at that. Not only can they stand to improve to begin with, but Hughes and Lawson's contracts are both up at the end of this year, and Hughes will be 31 years old. Beane even specifically mentioned recently that sometimes you draft a player because you know that "there may be a position where a couple of guys are up at the end of the coming season". He said this unsolicited, but it sure sounds like he's talking about his DE depth chart. Last but not least, the Bills have been using their high picks on premium positions (CB, LT, QB, ILB), and I don't see that changing. After QB, edge rusher is about as premium as it gets. This brings us to the point of this thread: Brian Burns, edge rusher, Florida State. Burns weights 6'5" and, prior to the combine, played at 231 lbs. He weighed in, however, at 249 lbs at the combine, and the added weight did not seem to hinder his speed, as he ran an incredible 4.56 40. He has elite bend, speed, and agility, a quality pass rush plan, and a bevy of counters and moves. His size, athleticism, and bend make me think of Jason Taylor. Don't take my word for it, though, here's some writeups about him from TheDraftNetwork and some videos. If Burns is still on the board at 9 (and he may not be), he looks like a slam dunk pick that will put the Bills defense over the top.https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/brian-burns Aaron Maybin. Our issues were not on the edge. We need a 3 Tech DT. Now if we could get a beast of a DE Id take it. But I want a Doberman, not a min-pin who soaked himself in water to look bigger. Edited March 5, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 43 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: With at least two and possibly three quarterbacks going ahead of us we should be able to grab an elite talent at 9. If we can grab two O-linemen in free agency then I think an EDGE or WR should be on the table. If we can't grab two O-lineman in free agency, we have to grab the best O-linemen left on the board, either Willams or Taylor. The O-line is not sexy like an EDGE or WR but the O-line is the foundation of our offense. We have to solidify the O-line this year. There will likely be four new starters on the O-line this season. They will need all the snaps together they can get at OTAs, camp, preseason, and likely a quarter of the regular season to gel and work as a unit. This needs to be the year of the O-line at One Bills Drive. We can not go into another year with a bad O-line and our franchise quarterback running for his life every other snap with no running game. Very well said and agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 47 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: With at least two and possibly three quarterbacks going ahead of us we should be able to grab an elite talent at 9. If we can grab two O-linemen in free agency then I think an EDGE or WR should be on the table. If we can't grab two O-lineman in free agency, we have to grab the best O-linemen left on the board, either Willams or Taylor. The O-line is not sexy like an EDGE or WR but the O-line is the foundation of our offense. We have to solidify the O-line this year. There will likely be four new starters on the O-line this season. They will need all the snaps together they can get at OTAs, camp, preseason, and likely a quarter of the regular season to gel and work as a unit. This needs to be the year of the O-line at One Bills Drive. We can not go into another year with a bad O-line and our franchise quarterback running for his life every other snap with no running game. Do you know what Carolina's draft history is concerning DL. They will likely take a DT if they go DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said: Very well said and agreed I have said it before and I'll say it again. OL and TE will be addressed in FA. IF an OL is on the board as BPA they may do it. But premium OL are cheaper than premium DTs in FA. As a matter of fact they dont cost much more than good DTs. Draft is the way to go for DT or maybe DE but I'm pretty sure it will be a DT. They may take a high risk and grab Metcalf tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Logic said: I came out of the WOMB watching Jason Taylor clips! I bet I was watching Jason Taylor clips while you were still building Lego dinosaur ships! While you're off at work, earning a living, guess what I'm doing? Yep, Jason Taylor clips. Maybe the body comparisons are close, but that's about it. Maybin was a one-trick pony. He had no pass rush plan, no counter moves, nothing. Burns is not that guy. Really? After his combine, there's some speculation that he'll go in the top 7 or 8 picks. Trading DOWN to get him? I don't see it. That was my parenting style as well! Can’t get them started too soon! I still remember being alone with my first born son for the first time......watching the draft. My wife came home, and got her first glimpse of what our life would become. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Not a top 9 player, maybe late first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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