Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

That has nothing to do with the the true catch rate though. The true catch rate is only considering the percentage of those 76.5% and the percentage of those 63.5% of passes that he caught. So for example, he had 74 targets in 2017. 27 were deemed uncatchable, leaving 47 that were catchable. He caught 27 of those 47, for a pathetic percentage of 57.4%. That improved to 71.8% this year (which is still bad, but at least not ungodly terrible).

which was my point.

 

The Tyrod Taylor suckitude in the passing game didn't help the (then) rookie 

[blacklabel]

I almost wanna give the kid a mulligan on his rookie season considering he was in an offense that wanted to run, run and then run some more coupled with a QB who was always quite hesitant to really push the ball downfield. That has to be taken into account. It's not all just, "Oh, Zay is horrible and it's 100% his fault and his fault alone." He's had two different OC's, this season he will be with his third different WR's coach, and he's had Taylor, Peterman, Allen, Anderson, and Barkley, five different QBs he's had to try and get on the same page with. That stuff counts. I mean, sure, at the end of the day it's on him to reach his potential but he has no control over who's gonna be coaching him and who's gonna be throwing him the ball. 

 

If this kid had been taken in the third round we wouldn't be having these conversations. But apparently, if you're drafted within the top 40 picks YOU BETTER BE AN ALL-PRO BY THE SECOND YOU SET FOOT IN THIS BUILDING, DAPGUMMIT! Or you'll feel the wrath of TWO....BILLS.... DRIVE!!!!!! /s

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I almost wanna give the kid a mulligan on his rookie season considering he was in an offense that wanted to run, run and then run some more coupled with a QB who was always quite hesitant to really push the ball downfield. That has to be taken into account. It's not all just, "Oh, Zay is horrible and it's 100% his fault and his fault alone." He's had two different OC's, this season he will be with his third different WR's coach, and he's had Taylor, Peterman, Allen, Anderson, and Barkley, five different QBs he's had to try and get on the same page with. That stuff counts. I mean, sure, at the end of the day it's on him to reach his potential but he has no control over who's gonna be coaching him and who's gonna be throwing him the ball. 

 

If this kid had been taken in the third round we wouldn't be having these conversations. But apparently, if you're drafted within the top 40 picks YOU BETTER BE AN ALL-PRO BY THE SECOND YOU SET FOOT IN THIS BUILDING, DAPGUMMIT! Or you'll feel the wrath of TWO....BILLS.... DRIVE!!!!!! /s

If he was drafted in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh round, UDFA or taken in the 17th round of the MLB draft, posters would B word the same about the number of dropped passes right in his hands in his rookie year, which had very little to do with the offense, Tyrod, or anything. 

[blacklabel]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

If he was drafted in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh round, UDFA or taken in the 17th round of the MLB draft, posters would B word the same about the number of dropped passes right in his hands in his rookie year, which had very little to do with the offense, Tyrod, or anything. 

 

I heard you drop a lot of passes, fella.

[Kelly the Dog]

16 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

I heard you drop a lot of passes, fella.

According to my sources, I'm not a pro football player.

[blacklabel]

38 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

According to my sources, I'm not a pro football player.

 

According to my sources, you are dog... and your ability to use a computer and discuss football and football-related topics is, quite frankly, astounding.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, blacklabel said:

 

According to my sources, you are dog... and your ability to use a computer and discuss football and football-related topics is, quite frankly, astounding.

I’m assuming you’re making an attempt at humor. Nice try. If not, knock it off, blacklist..

[Elite Poster]

56 catches 652 yards 7 TDs

 

Are you out of your ***** mind, this is the guy who STARTED Nathan FREAKING Peterman last year...

[BillsSB2020]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This is my whole thing with him...the tape doesn't lie, stats lie in the NFL, but the tape doesn't.  He left a LOT of plays on the field, way more than you want to see from a starting WR.   

Zay's stats are INCREDIBLY misleading. Tyrod/JA had to throw the ball to someone and Jones was the beneficiary of an atrocious WR group. He doesn't beat press coverage. He's EASILY smothered on go routes. He has not demonstrated the ability to routinely catch the football. He will never be able to win a go route. If he can't figure out how to beat PC and get his confidence up WRT catching the ball, he really doesn't have a place in the league.

[HOUSE]

No way

[cba fan]

On 2/27/2019 at 2:46 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

...................................................................

I could be wrong, but this is just what I believe based on the additions I expect Beane to make in the WR room.  I have no issues if others don't agree, just my opinion on the matter, nothing more.......................................................................

 

 

also calling it myself now. Jones is a lock for the 53 all year barring injury.

Edited March 1, 2019 by cba fan

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, cba fan said:

also calling it myself now. Jones is a lock for the 53 all year barring injury.

 

All good, I get why you feel that way.  I just expect us to bring in better WR's. 

[blacklabel]

16 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m assuming you’re making an attempt at humor. Nice try. If not, knock it off, blacklist..

 

You could at least get my name right. And yes, it was humor. I don't take anything on this board seriously, just trying to have fun.

[Rigotz]

This thread is stupid. He has a $1.8M cap hit, he was drafted by this regime, he put together a few good games, and has two years left on his rookie deal.

He's not getting cut.

[Logic]

I respect the OP and the notion the author puts forward. I also respectfully disagree.

Zay Jones was the Bills' leading receiver last year. The light seemed to turn on as the season progressed. In the last two games of the season, he had 5 catches for 67 yards and 1 TD one week, then 6 catches for 93 yards and 2 TDs the following week. 

In addition to the fact that Jones seemed to come on at the end of the year and seemed to be developing chemistry with Josh Allen, he is also cheap labor for an offense desperate for playmakers. To release him for really ANY reason would make no sense to me. Even if you've decided he'll never be better than an 800 yards per year guy, that's still a useful player for an offense that is currently bereft of them.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

This thread is stupid. He has a $1.8M cap hit, he was drafted by this regime, he put together a few good games, and has two years left on his rookie deal.

He's not getting cut.

 

Maybe read the OP at the very least or some comments.  Never was it said he will be cut, the prediction was a trade based on presumed expected upgrades at WR during FA and Draft.  

 

Its fine to disagree, your not the only one, but calling threads stupid you didn’t read is...well...stupid.  

[Rigotz]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Maybe read the OP at the very least or some comments.  Never was it said he will be cut, the prediction was a trade based on presumed expected upgrades at WR during FA and Draft.  

 

Its fine to disagree, your not the only one, but calling threads stupid you didn’t read is...well...stupid.  

 

Cool, so you think we're going to trade a young WR on a rookie contract when we need WR's worse than any other team in the NFL?

And your justification for this is that we're going to trade / draft / sign a bunch of other guys at WR that will make him expendable...

 

So ... RATHER THAN JUST KEEP THE GUY THAT YOU DRAFTED ... you think we can get BETTER VALUE from Free Agency, where NOBODY wants to come to Buffalo?

Or, do you think that other teams are just willing to give up BETTER VALUE in draft picks to acquire him than what it would take to DRAFT A REPLACEMENT?

 

If you don't believe either of these things to be true, why would you give up the value that we currently have in Zay Jones and DOWNGRADE VALUE?

I hope you understand the flaws in your argument ... but if you don't ... I'm quitting this thread anyway.

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Rigotz

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I hope we kick the tires on John Ross. If it's a mid round pick I'll bring him in. He was incredibly mismatched with Dalton. Put his 4.2 speed here with Josh Allen and it changes how defenses play us.

 

I also want us to sign Adam Humphries. Just a reliable underneath guy for Josh Allen to have. You add Ross and Humphries with Jones, Foster, Williams(jury is out) it's the beginning of a pretty good WR corp for our young QB and all of them are on peanuts. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by FeelingOnYouboty

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Calling it now, (which technically is later)  Zay Jones will be on the opening day roster. 

 

He fought for Jesus man! You don’t trade that...

 

Also he’s continuing to get better. Based on progression he might be 1000 yd WR this year. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[prissythecat]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Calling it now, (which technically is later)  Zay Jones will be on the opening day roster. 

 

He fought for Jesus man! You don’t trade that...

 

Also he’s continuing to get better. Based on progression he might be 1000 yd WR this year. 

 

+1

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

 

Cool, so you think we're going to trade a young WR on a rookie contract when we need WR's worse than any other team in the NFL?

And your justification for this is that we're going to trade / draft / sign a bunch of other guys at WR that will make him expendable...

 

So ... RATHER THAN JUST KEEP THE GUY THAT YOU DRAFTED ... you think we can get BETTER VALUE from Free Agency, where NOBODY wants to come to Buffalo?

Or, do you think that other teams are just willing to give up BETTER VALUE in draft picks to acquire him than what it would take to DRAFT A REPLACEMENT?

 

If you don't believe either of these things to be true, why would you give up the value that we currently have in Zay Jones and DOWNGRADE VALUE?

I hope you understand the flaws in your argument ... but if you don't ... I'm quitting this thread anyway.

 

 

LMAO:  Then why root for Buffalo dude if no one good will ever play here?  I mean thats the first really ridiculous thing I have seen anyone say in 7 pages of this thread.  And like I already said, IF we ONLY bring in ONE more guy, then I absolutely believe Zay will be on this roster week 1.  My prediction is based on bringing in 2 more relevant WR's, already said that multiple times.

 

Name one thing Zay Jones excels at.  Just one.  

 

You don't think we can upgrade from a guy who has yet to establish any part of his game as consistent in 2 years, has played 30 games and in 22 of them has less than 40 yards receiving, and only ever eclipsed 60 yards receiving 5 times in his career with zero 100 yard games?  I get people don't agree, and totally fine with that, but you have a pretty low bar for a starting WR to think thats not something difficult to improve on.

 

So the real basis of your argument is that we cant possibly upgrade on him because of a rookie contract and no other FA's will come here.  The last thing that is an issue for this team right now is cap room.  They will make the best decisions they feel are best for the team, and cheap contracts will not be the end all be all barometer of those decisions.

 

I don't know for sure Zay will be traded, I made a bold prediction and I stated its my opinion and gut feeling.  If he doesn't, then great that would hopefully mean he really upped his game and thats great for the Bills.  I would LOVE Zay to do that, I liked him out of college and have nothing against him.  However, my confidence in him beating out the 2 additions I expect and also both Foster and Duke are not as high as yours.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[nedboy7]

This is just silly.  I hope that’s not offensive. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Maybe read the OP at the very least or some comments.  Never was it said he will be cut, the prediction was a trade based on presumed expected upgrades at WR during FA and Draft.  

 

Its fine to disagree, your not the only one, but calling threads stupid you didn’t read is...well...stupid.  

 

• Never was it said he will be cut

• Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster

 

 

then how is he not on the roster if he's not cut or traded?   If he is as bad as people imply, then he's not worth the trade value

Edited March 1, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[njbuff]

So, the Bills are going to get rid of a WR going into his third year after scoring 7 TD's on an offense that was a mess last year?

 

Ok, got it.

 

Jones needs more consistency, which is typical for young WR's.

 

Please move on to the next issue as this won't be one.

Edited March 1, 2019 by njbuff

[TigerJ]

I disagree because there is plenty of room for upgrades at WR besides Zay, and Zay is still on his rookie (cheap) contract.  Unless Beane manages to swing a nice trade, I think they'll let him play out his rookie contract.  Then they can decide if they want to try and re-sign him or let him walk.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

• Never was it said he will be cut

• Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster

 

 

then how is he not on the roster if he's not cut or traded?   If he is as bad as people imply, then he's not worth the trade value

 

Huh?  When did I say he wouldn't be traded.  Literally in my OP I said he would be traded and said it like 15 times in replies.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I give up.  Again and again and again 

 

Zay Jones will be on the roster opening week.  

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, TigerJ said:

I disagree because there is plenty of room for upgrades at WR besides Zay, and Zay is still on his rookie (cheap) contract.  Unless Beane manages to swing a nice trade, I think they'll let him play out his rookie contract.  Then they can decide if they want to try and re-sign him or let him walk.

 

Why does everyone keep bringing up the "rookie contract"?  You guys realize ALL our WRs are cheap, and Zay is the most expensive WR actually on the current roster right?  And if we draft say 2 more rookies, they will also be on rookie contracts.  Not to mention we have a ton of cap room if we sign one in FA too, and still will have Zay, Foster, Duke, and a probably rookie or two all on rookie or cheaper contracts.  

 

Zays "rookie" contract really isn't going to matter.  If he keeps his job here it will be because he earns it on the field, not on his paperwork. 

 

7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I give up.  Again and again and again 

 

Zay Jones will be on the roster opening week.  

 

 

 

Thats fine, its ok to think that.  I mean I went out on a limb with a gut feeling, its not that big a deal.  But you keep responding to me, and claim I said things I havent said.  So I corrected you and answered your question.  Not my fault you didn't read what I wrote or misread it.  

Edited March 2, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Why does everyone keep bringing up the "rookie contract"?  You guys realize ALL our WRs are cheap, and Zay is the most expensive WR actually on the current roster right?  And if we draft say 2 more rookies, they will also be on rookie contracts.  Not to mention we have a ton of cap room if we sign one in FA too, and still will have Zay, Foster, Duke, and a probably rookie or two all on rookie or cheaper contracts.  

 

Zays "rookie" contract really isn't going to matter.  If he keeps his job here it will be because he earns it on the field, not on his paperwork. 

 

 

Thats fine, its ok to think that.  I mean I went out on a limb with a gut feeling, its not that big a deal.  But you keep responding to me, and claim I said things I havent said.  So I corrected you and answered your question.  Not my fault you didn't read what I wrote or misread it.  

 

I believe he was basically saying if he is as bad as some say, then where is the trade value and why would some teams trade for him if he is that bad as some say. That's what I got out of it anyway.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

I believe he was basically saying if he is as bad as some say, then where is the trade value and why would some teams trade for him if he is that bad as some say. That's what I got out of it anyway.

 

He said I claimed that he WONT be traded and WONT be cut and then asked "then how is he not on the team".  So I corrected his statement and answered his question.

 

And aren't most trades because a certain player doesn't fit on one team and another thinks that same player may fit on theirs?  

 

For example:  Rosen has trade value if AZ does take Murray.  People here want to trade for Ross who has 22 catches in 2 years, he has trade value too.      

 

My point was never that Zay is a complete bust, its that I believe they are going to bring in different types of WR's that do certain things better than Zay and he will fall down the depth chart.  So I think Beane would make that trade in preseason (like AJM last year) before the cut down if he feels he isnt one of the top 3 WR's on the depth chart.  Zay will lose value further if he is limited in opportunities being a 4th or 5th option on the team.  So I would expect Beane to trade him before his value further diminished.   

 

All good, I knew this would be a divided topic, and I would probably be on the minority on this gut feeling.  Its not to meant to be some "guarantee" where everyone is wrong if they don't feel the same.  I get the other side, and this has been a lot of great discussion in this thread.  

 

If we don't add as much to the WR room as I expect, then sure I think Zay will be part of the team next year.  

[Aussie Joe]

It’s been an interesting topic that’s generated some good discussion..

 

Dont know why people need to feel frustrated that there are some different points of view..

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He said I claimed that he WONT be traded and WONT be cut and then asked "then how is he not on the team".  So I corrected his statement and answered his question.

 

And aren't most trades because a certain player doesn't fit on one team and another thinks that same player may fit on theirs?  

 

For example:  Rosen has trade value if AZ does take Murray.  People here want to trade for Ross who has 22 catches in 2 years, he has trade value too.      

 

My point was never that Zay is a complete bust, its that I believe they are going to bring in different types of WR's that do certain things better than Zay and he will fall down the depth chart.  So I think Beane would make that trade in preseason (like AJM last year) before the cut down if he feels he isnt one of the top 3 WR's on the depth chart.  Zay will lose value further if he is limited in opportunities being a 4th or 5th option on the team.  So I would expect Beane to trade him before his value further diminished.   

 

All good, I knew this would be a divided topic, and I would probably be on the minority on this gut feeling.  Its not to meant to be some "guarantee" where everyone is wrong if they don't feel the same.  I get the other side, and this has been a lot of great discussion in this thread.  

 

If we don't add as much to the WR room as I expect, then sure I think Zay will be part of the team next year.  

Cool

[Shaw66]

On 2/27/2019 at 3:46 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

I could be wrong, but this is just what I believe based on the additions I expect Beane to make in the WR room.  I have no issues if others don't agree, just my opinion on the matter, nothing more.  

 

I have consistently said this all off season, and McDermott just said something again that enforces that belief.  I think they see how the Rams cleared out their WR room and so did the Bears and in both cases their young QB's took big strides as passers.  Eagles did the same for Wentz too.  

 

"We're looking for guys that can get open and catch the ball."  Yes, that is an obvious trait for any WR, but also its telling that he and Beane keep making these comments given the struggles all year, including Zay, to do these very basic things.  

 

I think the WR room will be crowded once free agency and the draft is over (likely 2 to 3 additions) and Zay is going to be someone who has to really impress in camp to make this roster.   Right now, there is not one part of being a wide receiver that Zay does particularly well outside of his reported good work ethic.  

 

1. Hands:  Struggles catching the ball.  Makes easy catches look hard and drops too many passes.
2. Separation:  Has struggled to get separation, especially playing on the outside.  
3. Route Running:  Part of his issue with getting separation is his inconsistent route running.
4. Speed:  He has average speed.  He is fast enough to play in the league, but to be consistent with his speed he needs to be a good route runner.  
5. Physicality:  He is easily man handled by physical corners.  Games like the Lions and Pats this year he was dominated physically for example.  
6. Contested Catches:  One of the weakest part of his game.
7. Catch Radius:  Very limited mostly due to his inconsistent hands and lack of physicality.  

 

Foster:  Penciled in as a projected #2 WR.  However, if we bring in a potential starter in FA and also draft one early, then Foster is no lock for #2 and could be used more out of the slot or as a deep threat.  Additionally, if we draft say Metcalf or make a splashy trade for someone like Brown (less likely), then Duke could make a real challenge for #2 as a big catch radius compliment to a #1 who poses a real deep threat opposite him. 

 

Duke:  He has to prove himself in the NFL, I get that.  But if we take an honest assessment of him, his issues were never talent related.  He isn't a speed burner, but he has a big catch radius, runs good routes, and has great hands.  He could legit compete for the #2 opposite a big play #1.  Even if not a #2, its more than reasonable he has a legit shot to make this team and compete for minutes.  

 

Zay:  Best suited for the slot, however his lack of consistent hands and his issues with separation make his spot there vulnerable.  If our top 2 WR's this next season dont include Foster, then I can easily see Foster challenging to play in the slot, and he already has surpassed Zay.  

 

We are adding at least 2 additonal WR's (and maybe 3) this offseason expected to start or compete to start to go along with the 3 guys already here.  With McD and Beanes consistent comments about getting open and catching the ball, I think Zay is in trouble and will be a training camp or preseason trade for a 4th round or conditional 5th round pick.  

You make some interesting points, but I don't agreement with a lot of your assessment of Zay.  I think his hands and his route running are fine, and no no. 2 receiver gets separation on his own. He gets separation with scheme.  

 

Still, I agree about catch radius and contested balls, and for those reasons I agree that Duke could very well take the starting job from him.  Better hands, competes better for the ball, better catch radius.

 

The problem with your assessment is that it's hard to see how the Bills are going to add 3 or 4 guys good enough to take his spot on the roster.  No rookie is likely to start other than a first or second round pick. Maybe there will be a good free agent pick up.  But Zay's work ethic and understanding of the process, along with his success with Allen late in the season, all make me think that McD will want Zay on the team.  

 

If you said September 2020, I'd say you were probably right.  

[reddogblitz]

On 2/27/2019 at 1:07 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Possible but unlikely.

 

1st, we are not going to get much for him

2 nd you really think we will beef up our WR roster so much he isn't even a backup?

 

As far as #2, that's my hope.  We already have 2 guys better or potentially better in Foster and Duke.  If we sign a real FA WR and draft someone high and perhaps find someone else, Zay could very well be on the outside looking in.

 

Or, perhaps he could be a good Kicking Teamer  ala Marcus Easley.

Edited March 2, 2019 by reddogblitz

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/27/2019 at 3:03 PM, jkeerie said:

Listened to McD on WGR interview after his press conference.  He mentioned changes in the coaching staff...that coaches need to be all in, all the time and giving maximum effort.  You got the impression (and Murphy and Tasker mentioned this) that Robiske wasn't doing that as a coach.  Improving the WR corps has to include improving the coaches.

 

*nods* when you hire a guy who just washed out and got fired from a higher position, it can go two ways.

You might wind up with someone who is a bit over-qualified and working extra-hard to shine in his current role and try to prove he deserves another shot at a step.

Or you might wind up with someone who is demotivated by his demotion and RIP (retired-in-place) 'ing the job.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 2/27/2019 at 4:12 PM, Augie said:

I think he stays. He’s cheap and his leap from year 1 to year 2 was impressive and makes me hope he keeps improving. I think there may have some some stuff messing up his head year 1. 

 

It was his WR coach McGeoghan who was his college WR coach who messed up his head.

[3rdand12]

12 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You make some interesting points, but I don't agreement with a lot of your assessment of Zay.  I think his hands and his route running are fine, and no no. 2 receiver gets separation on his own. He gets separation with scheme.  

 

Still, I agree about catch radius and contested balls, and for those reasons I agree that Duke could very well take the starting job from him.  Better hands, competes better for the ball, better catch radius.

 

The problem with your assessment is that it's hard to see how the Bills are going to add 3 or 4 guys good enough to take his spot on the roster.  No rookie is likely to start other than a first or second round pick. Maybe there will be a good free agent pick up.  But Zay's work ethic and understanding of the process, along with his success with Allen late in the season, all make me think that McD will want Zay on the team.  

 

If you said September 2020, I'd say you were probably right.  

Rather reasonable post right here.

 and not just because i happen  to agree with it

 

5 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

It was his WR coach McGeoghan who was his college WR coach who messed up his head.

this is actually possible.

[Nick the Greek]

Totally disagree with OP. Next year will be Zays breakout year. Mark it down. 

[Big Turk]

Over the last 9 games of the season among WR's, Zay was 36th in the NFL in yards receiving(411), 27th in the NFL in receptions(27) and tied for 5th in TD's(6).  In comparison, over the first 7, Zay was 65th in receiving yards(226), 62nd in receptions(19) and tied for 62nd in TDs(1).

 

Why would you cut a guy who just finished his 2nd year and started showing signs that the light is starting to go on who played much better in the last half of the season?

 

OP,  this post is pure idiocy at its finest.

 

And besides, why would you cut a guy with super human powers like Levitation??

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000885132/Zay-Jones-defies-gravity-as-he-levitates-from-turf

Edited March 3, 2019 by matter2003

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

It was his WR coach McGeoghan who was his college WR coach who messed up his head.

 

Why was he so incredibly productive as a senior, but such a mess as a rookie? I don’t that at all.