Startling Star statistic

[*******]

Currently DT Star Lotulelei will take up a team-high 5.8% of the #Bills salary cap in 2019 after signing a five-year, $50 million deal with Buffalo last offseason. Despite this, he only played in 46.9% of defensive snaps last season & he played in all 16 games

[WMDman]

Well I am quite startled 

[C.Biscuit97]

This is why I didn’t like the signing and feel it’s outdated thinking (though I love Samoans).  He is a one dimensional player that can be schemed off. I’d rather have a couple of DTs, run stuffer and pass rusher, than one Star.  He certainly helped with the run defense but he rarely made impact plays.

 

he is good at his role.  However, his role just isn’t important anymore.  He probably won’t get on the field if we played the Chiefs.

[MJS]

I'm fine with him, but it does seem his paycheck is too large for the role he is playing. Hopefully that doesn't impact us negatively in the future.

 

Anybody know the details of his contract and when the Bills have a good out?

[BuffaloHokie13]

More startling is that McCoy and Clay take up a combined 9% of our cap in 2019. For now.

 

Also, AJ McCarron takes up 1%, FWIW.

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is why I didn’t like the signing and feel it’s outdated thinking (though I love Samoans).  He is a one dimensional player that can be schemed off. I’d rather have a couple of DTs, run stuffer and pass rusher, than one Star.  He certainly helped with the run defense but he rarely made impact plays.

 

he is good at his role.  However, his role just isn’t important anymore.  He probably won’t get on the field if we played the Chiefs.

I agree. It looks like they used the Damon Harrison contract as a guideline. 

[teef]

my world is turned completely upside down.

[Happy]

Lorax thinks Star is worth every bit of his contract since his (Star) play helps others make plays.

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/01/bills-lorenzo-alexander-says-star-lotulelei-earned-every-bit-of-big-contract.html

 

"But Buffalo linebacker Lorenzo Alexander, who called Lotulelei “disruptive,” said that the former Panthers tackle was well worth it and is going to be a staple on the team for years to come.

“Obviously he (doesn’t play) a sexy position, but he allows other people around him to make plays,” Alexander said. “I’ve definitely been able to have a pretty good year this year. A lot of it is contributed to what he’s been able to do as far as keeping guys off me, allowing me to run free.

“In the pass rush, people can’t step up. On first or second down I know a couple of guys that have gotten sacks throughout the year just because Star has gotten that great push. He’s earned every bit of what he’s got with that five-year deal.” "

 

Leslie Frazier's take on Star:

 

“He demands a double team which allows our linebackers to run free and make some of the tackles that people might think the nose tackle should be making,” Frazier said. “That has been a plus for us, helping our linebackers to improve. But also to help our run defense. He’s done a good job of commanding attention from their interior, their center and their guards. It’s hard to block him one-one-one and that’s what we needed and he’s given us that.”

Edited January 15, 2019 by Happy Gilmore

[C.Biscuit97]

Is a teammate going to say their teammate isn’t worth the money?  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

That percentage looks much worse in the context of our salary cap space.  

 

What is the number as a percentage of the total salary cap? 

[LSHMEAB]

That was a poor allocation of resources by Beane. No doubt about it. He was brought in to improve our run defense and the run defense did not improve. Did the Star folks read the part that states he wasn't even in the game for over half the defensive snaps? 

 

They cannot swing and miss like that this time around.

[BuffaloBillies]

More startling was the under-reported play in week 5 when Star was the second on the scene and touched the QB (on the shoulder) after he slipped down avoiding Hughes. What a play!

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That was a poor allocation of resources by Beane. No doubt about it. He was brought in to improve our run defense and the run defense did not improve. Did the Star folks read the part that states he wasn't even in the game for over half the defensive snaps? 

 

They cannot swing and miss like that this time around.

He is a dinosaur playing in the new NFL. Bring in Star? Audible to a pass, Oh Star is on the sideline? Let’s rack up some rushing yards.

 

Paying a one dimensional guy that much never made sense.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I hated the hiring at the time, I still think they could have found the same type of guy for much less.

[WideNine]

I hope I am wrong, but the Bills also seem to scheme a lot of their defense around pass rush and defensive linemen occupying blockers to create gaps to free up stunts and blitzes.

 

Where we absolutely were hurting is getting any push from our DTs to stop runners before they got a good head of steam hitting those open gaps and rolling over/dragging guys in our secondary +5 yards a carry. Star may be doing exactly what they are asking of him, but we need some defensive interior linemen that can be disruptive and play on the other side of the LOS, or to better scheme our run defense (probably a bit of both and perhaps they expect our linebackers to be more successful with their run-blitzes).

 

Just thinking out loud folks... nothing to see here.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Is a teammate going to say their teammate isn’t worth the money?  

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/30/teammate-tells-aaron-maybin-to-earn-his-money/

 

“Give back some of that money you ain’t [expletive] earned!” Wood screamed at Maybin.

 

[SWATeam]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is why I didn’t like the signing and feel it’s outdated thinking (though I love Samoans).  He is a one dimensional player that can be schemed off. I’d rather have a couple of DTs, run stuffer and pass rusher, than one Star.  He certainly helped with the run defense but he rarely made impact plays.

 

he is good at his role.  However, his role just isn’t important anymore.  He probably won’t get on the field if we played the Chiefs.

I don't really agree.  

 

I love what the Ravens do with Brandon Williams and Michael Pierce.  Beef up the middle makes everything else easier, IMO. 

[billspro]

17 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That was a poor allocation of resources by Beane. No doubt about it. He was brought in to improve our run defense and the run defense did not improve. Did the Star folks read the part that states he wasn't even in the game for over half the defensive snaps? 

 

They cannot swing and miss like that this time around.

 

Are you sure the run D didn’t improve?They had two bad games but were solid outside of that.

[thurst44]

9 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That was a poor allocation of resources by Beane. No doubt about it. He was brought in to improve our run defense and the run defense did not improve. Did the Star folks read the part that states he wasn't even in the game for over half the defensive snaps? 

 

They cannot swing and miss like that this time around.

The Bills Run D was 29th in 2017 and 16th in 2018, giving up 10 fewer yards per game. They were also solid in most games (under 100 in half), but were so terrible in three that's all many of us remember. Even if you don't like that level of improvement, it's debatable that he was solely brought in to "improve our run defense" -- more often, I heard the justification was that we were getting murdered in the short pass game because QBs could step up into the middle and outlet a quick pass to the tight end. To that end, I'm pretty sure we allowed the fewest yards to tight ends this year. 

 

Is the scarcity of snaps concerning? Sure. However, given that this defense improved from 26th to 2nd and we have a plethora of cap space to address offensive issues (and he's not the reason we didn't have wide receivers this year), I trust their moves for now on the defensive side of the ball. 

[without a drought]

Which one is startling 5.8% or 46.9%, maybe it was the $50mil, but we already knew that.

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That was a poor allocation of resources by Beane. No doubt about it. He was brought in to improve our run defense and the run defense did not improve. Did the Star folks read the part that states he wasn't even in the game for over half the defensive snaps? 

 

They cannot swing and miss like that this time around.

They went from 24th in the league in 2017 defensive YPA to 9th in 2018. 

4 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

Are you sure the run D didn’t improve?They had two bad games but were solid outside of that.

No. That idea that the rush defense didn’t improve is incorrect.

[Patrick Duffy]

I think they also pick a DT at some point in the draft as well.

[SoCal Deek]

I’d love to see that same ratio applied to the long snapper, punter and kicker. Hint: Everything doesn’t always work out to simple averages.

[Shaw66]

I think all of us amateur GMs don't know what we're talking about.

 

First, the Lorenzo Alexander statements are telling.   He's a one seven or eight guys IN THE WORLD whose ability to do his job depends on what Star does, and if he says Star is doing his job, that's enought for me. 

 

Second, NFL salaries ARE not a measure of a guy's worth in every case.   Look at the salary dispersion of ALL teams - there are 2 or 3 or 4 guys over $10 million a year, and about 45 at or about $2 million or less.    Often the lucky guys, like Star, hit the market at just the right time and get a really nice contract.  In terms of actual value to the team, he isn't worth three times as much as some guy making $1.5, but that's just the nature of NFL salaries. 

 

Put another way, there is no way to determine the relative value of each player on the team compared to each other player.  Even if you could determine those values, there is no way that every player's compensation could be set at exactly the correct amount compared to every other player.   You can't even get close.   

 

Every team has guys who are getting paid a few million more than they are "worth" and some guys who are getting paid a few million less than they are "worth."  The players understand this.  They treat their wealthy teammates as guys who hit Lotto, but most do not walk around complaining that those guys are being overpaid.   

 

Now, if you're overpaying 10 guys (or worse, is you have a lot of guys not even on the team you're still paying in dead cap space), it's a problem.   But if all you have is a few, it just doesn't matter.  Every team has a few.  

 

If Star is doing his job, no one in the organization is concerned about his paycheck, and the fans shouldn't be, either.  

[Aussie Joe]

I am startled..

 

No one had ever mentioned Star was overpaid before..

[Shaw66]

As for the "scarcity" of snaps, the defense is designed to play eight d-linemen.   I think the most you can expect Star to play is maybe 60% of the snaps, so 50% is terribly troubling to me.  He was at 53 and 65% his last two years at Carolina, and in the 45% range the two seasons before that.   So he may be down a bit, but he's essentially being used the way he always was used.   

 

I can't get excited about any of this. 

[ComradeKayAdams]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They went from 24th in the league in 2017 defensive YPA to 9th in 2018. 

No. That idea that the rush defense didn’t improve is incorrect.

 

THANK YOU, sir, for your facts. That 9th would have likely been top 5 if not for the occasional brain farts from our two very young LB's, Milano and Edmunds. We basically paid a few extra million than the market rate for a premium nose tackle so that we could ensure a stout run defense. I am not losing sleep over this decision at all. Nothing is more frustrating in football to me than knowing the opposing team is going to run it and still not being able to stop them. See: Bills vs. Saints, 2017.

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is why I didn’t like the signing and feel it’s outdated thinking (though I love Samoans).  He is a one dimensional player that can be schemed off. I’d rather have a couple of DTs, run stuffer and pass rusher, than one Star.  He certainly helped with the run defense but he rarely made impact plays.

 

he is good at his role.  However, his role just isn’t important anymore.  He probably won’t get on the field if we played the Chiefs.

This isnt a surprise given McD does line rotation.

[Virgil]

When I opened the link, I couldn’t believe what happened next!

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

This isnt a surprise given McD does line rotation.

I just want some more impact plays for that much money.  I feel like a space eater can be found for cheaper. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Lorax thinks Star is worth every bit of his contract since his (Star) play helps others make plays.

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/01/bills-lorenzo-alexander-says-star-lotulelei-earned-every-bit-of-big-contract.html

 

"But Buffalo linebacker Lorenzo Alexander, who called Lotulelei “disruptive,” said that the former Panthers tackle was well worth it and is going to be a staple on the team for years to come.

“Obviously he (doesn’t play) a sexy position, but he allows other people around him to make plays,” Alexander said. “I’ve definitely been able to have a pretty good year this year. A lot of it is contributed to what he’s been able to do as far as keeping guys off me, allowing me to run free.

“In the pass rush, people can’t step up. On first or second down I know a couple of guys that have gotten sacks throughout the year just because Star has gotten that great push. He’s earned every bit of what he’s got with that five-year deal.” "

 

Leslie Frazier's take on Star:

 

“He demands a double team which allows our linebackers to run free and make some of the tackles that people might think the nose tackle should be making,” Frazier said. “That has been a plus for us, helping our linebackers to improve. But also to help our run defense. He’s done a good job of commanding attention from their interior, their center and their guards. It’s hard to block him one-one-one and that’s what we needed and he’s given us that.”

 

Oh come on ...

 

 

the "experts" at TBD know far better than the players and coaches...     

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Oh come on ...

 

 

the "experts" at TBD know far better than the players and coaches...     

Players loved Dick Jauron.  Micah Hyde compared Peterman to Brett Favre. It’s what players do.

Edited January 15, 2019 by C.Biscuit97

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They went from 24th in the league in 2017 defensive YPA to 9th in 2018. 

No. That idea that the rush defense didn’t improve is incorrect.

 

see above 

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Players loved Dick Jauron.  

lol   touche'  

 

coaches and players ..... there is a difference.  

[Happy]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Oh come on ...

 

 

the "experts" at TBD know far better than the players and coaches...     

 

Yeah, Stars play is largely invisible, so I can see the angst people have toward him.  I saw this article and wanted to put it out there to shed some light on his role.

[Just Joshin']

When I read the title I thought it was about the OP users name.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Yeah, Stars play is largely invisible, so I can see the angst people have toward him.  I saw this article and wanted to put it out there to shed some light on his role.

It's really hard to tell what a player does on every down.  

 

Many say Tremaine Edmunds  is bad too.   Yet he's got some good skills and at 19 has done a great job at directing the defense.  

 

Sacks and Tackles matter in the stat book.  but there is more than those two things that define a player. 

 

point in fact  Lorax said 

“Obviously he (doesn’t play) a sexy position, but he allows other people around him to make plays,” 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just want some more impact plays for that much money.  I feel like a space eater can be found for cheaper. 

You need to pay for talent. If you look at comparable guys playing similar roles, he's not that far off imo from what his value is in this defense. He's not Geno Atkins or Fletcher Cox, maybe more a Gerald McCoy, and all those guys make more. Considering the Bills had to bring him in as a FA and probably got bid up on his price, I think he's paid just about right.

[jimmy10]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/30/teammate-tells-aaron-maybin-to-earn-his-money/

 

“Give back some of that money you ain’t [expletive] earned!” Wood screamed at Maybin.

 

 

STARTLING

23 minutes ago, Virgil said:

When I opened the link, I couldn’t believe what happened next!

 

The Bills used up 5.8% of their cap space using this one weird trick! 

[Logic]

51 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think all of us amateur GMs don't know what we're talking about.

 

First, the Lorenzo Alexander statements are telling.   He's a one seven or eight guys IN THE WORLD whose ability to do his job depends on what Star does, and if he says Star is doing his job, that's enought for me. 

 

Second, NFL salaries ARE not a measure of a guy's worth in every case.   Look at the salary dispersion of ALL teams - there are 2 or 3 or 4 guys over $10 million a year, and about 45 at or about $2 million or less.    Often the lucky guys, like Star, hit the market at just the right time and get a really nice contract.  In terms of actual value to the team, he isn't worth three times as much as some guy making $1.5, but that's just the nature of NFL salaries. 

 

Put another way, there is no way to determine the relative value of each player on the team compared to each other player.  Even if you could determine those values, there is no way that every player's compensation could be set at exactly the correct amount compared to every other player.   You can't even get close.   

 

Every team has guys who are getting paid a few million more than they are "worth" and some guys who are getting paid a few million less than they are "worth."  The players understand this.  They treat their wealthy teammates as guys who hit Lotto, but most do not walk around complaining that those guys are being overpaid.   

 

Now, if you're overpaying 10 guys (or worse, is you have a lot of guys not even on the team you're still paying in dead cap space), it's a problem.   But if all you have is a few, it just doesn't matter.  Every team has a few.  

 

If Star is doing his job, no one in the organization is concerned about his paycheck, and the fans shouldn't be, either.  

Shaw said it all. 

You want to know one of the crucial pieces that helped the Bills defense jump to #1 in the league this year? Star Lotulelei. A space-eating DT that commands double teams is absolutely VITAL to the success of McDermott's scheme.

If you want to argue that they overpaid for him, fine, but I disagree with that, too. 

You allocate X amount of money to each position group. Typically, the 3-technique would be the guy making big money amongst the DTs. However, since Kyle is retiring and the Bills don't currently HAVE a 3-technique worth a big payday, they decided to give a bigger chunk of money to Star. I'd expect them to draft a youngster at 3-technique now, and by the time he's ready for a big contract extension, Star's deal will be nearing its end, and Harrison Phillips may step into that full time double-team-commanding 1T role. Aside from that, if you look at how much the salary cap goes up each year and factor in that you often have to overpay a bit in free agency to get good players -- ESPECIALLY in Buffalo -- you realize that Star's contract isn't that far out of whack. It's also better than the contract we were paying Dareus, and Star gives us VASTLY more production.

Bottom line: Many fans will likely always take issue with Star's contract because he plays a non-glamorous position. The truth, though, is that said non-glamorous position is critical to the defense's success. If the endorsement of a grizzled veteran like Lorenzo Alexander doesn't change these fans' minds, though, nothing likely will.

28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just want some more impact plays for that much money.  I feel like a space eater can be found for cheaper. 

There were a ton of impact plays, that's the thing. They were being made by the linebackers and safeties that were freed up to run to the ball by Star's commanding of double teams. Impact plays, galore.

[ColoradoBills]

What is startling to me is Star is the highest paid Buffalo Bill and tied for the 140th highest paid player in the league.

At the end of Star's contract that number will be closer to 230th highest in the league.

 

Knowing that the Bills paid a premium for him in FA by 10-15%.

These facts are the least thing to concern ourselves about.