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Josh Allen---has your opinion changed on him since draft night?

Big Turk

By Big Turk
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Dr. Who Veteran

Dr. Who

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1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

In Bortles' second year (2015) his passing stats were 355/606 (58.6%) for 4,428 yards(7.31 YPA), 35 TDs, & 18 INTs. He also ran 52 times for 310 yards and 2 TDs. If those are Josh Allen's stats in year 2 I think everyone here is pretty excited.

Yes, that's true. I am looking at Bortles where he is now. It does go to show it's a marathon, not a sprint.

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Stank_Nasty
Stank_Nasty

I talked myself into it within a hour after the draft and was all in. I’ve always been able to do that as a fan.    I also thought everyone coming in here like they knew how these qb’s would

Kirby Jackson
Kirby Jackson

He wasn’t my guy. I had him behind the other 4 but ahead of Rudolph (who some people loved for some strange reason). As it stands now, I’m thrilled with the Allen pick. He looks like a future star to

TaskerTough
TaskerTough

As soon as I heard that he trained to become a QB by throwing rocks into a barrel on his family farm - I was in.   

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LabattBlue All Pro

LabattBlue

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His results in the passing game was where I expected it to be.  Lots of ups and downs.  Where he surprised me and most everyone else was his ability to make plays with his legs. 

 

 

That being said, his legs are only going to take this team so far(mediocrity).  If they are going anywhere with Allen under center, he is going to have to improve a LOT in the passing game. 

Edited by LabattBlue
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Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

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Josh was not my guy before the draft. He was my guy immediately after we picked him, and he has pleasantly surprised me. There’s a long way to go, but it’s hard not to love this young man. 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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7 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Is "bust" criteria objective level of play or is it also dictated by when a fella was drafted? I surmise most folks would judge Bortles a decent backup level of player. If you drafted him in the mid-rounds, that would make him a moderate success. If you drafted him third overall, that feels like a bust. That doesn't mean Bortles would have to have become a top five qb in order to avoid being a bust. I think Andy Dalton level average does that, though even that indicates a miss in terms of where he was drafted.

 

For me, it's dictated by objective level of play.  I don't grade on a curve depending on where someone was drafted.

YMMV and others may differ

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The Wiz Hall of Famer

The Wiz

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Drastically.

 

I wanted anyone but him... well him and Jackson were my 4a and 4b.  Watched a bunch of film on him predraft and it looked like a lowlight reel if anything. That being said,  I haven't watched a bills team offense in the past 10-15 years where they get an offensive penalty and I think to myself (3 and out here we come).

 

He's been reckless at times for sure but I think the times he makes the WOW plays far outweigh the bad plays.

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Golden Goat Veteran

Golden Goat

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I wanted Mayfield, but Allen was a close second. After the first pick was announced, I was all in on Allen, mainly because I couldn't stand the other guys. It took a bit for the "crush" to develop, but his performance versus the Jaguars did it.

 

 

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VW82 Veteran

VW82

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I always thought it was tough to get a really good read based on his college experience (outside of him clearly being raw) but looking at it from week one to now, I'm definitely more optimistic than I was.

 

His ability to feel the rush (post snap) is night and day from training camp. Remember the Green Bay game when he was running from ghosts? Or all the throws in the first half of the year where he was milliseconds away from getting sacked because he had no idea he was about to get hit? He's basically Aaron Rodgers now in terms of his sixth sense in the pocket. It's really incredible. 

 

I like his on field leadership too. He has a boyish positivity you sometimes see in young people who haven't been jaded yet by life that just seems infectious. He also does a good job leveraging his big plays to help fire up teammates.

 

At the beginning of the year he was a blob of clay. Now you can see the outline of where an NFL QB might one day be molded. It's exciting.

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Elite Poster Veteran

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12 hours ago, Magox said:

Stating that "I'm now convinced" that he will be a franchise QB or "the kid has it" is nothing like what E. Poster stated.  

 

Do we not know what a franchise QB is? That is a guy who should be making multiple pro bowl trips and maybe 1-2 all pros. 

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Lieutenant Aldo Raine Veteran

Lieutenant Aldo Raine

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2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Drastically.

 

I wanted anyone but him... well him and Jackson were my 4a and 4b.  Watched a bunch of film on him predraft and it looked like a lowlight reel if anything. That being said,  I haven't watched a bills team offense in the past 10-15 years where they get an offensive penalty and I think to myself (3 and out here we come).

 

He's been reckless at times for sure but I think the times he makes the WOW plays far outweigh the bad plays.

Don't lie, because if you had truly watched his film you would have seen the EXACT same thing in your last sentence.  

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Putin Veteran

Putin

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On 1/2/2019 at 8:00 AM, I am the egg man said:

Another season, preferably a full one, is definitely needed to see if Allen is legit.

 

So I guess that is a no.  

 

   

 

 

Thank’s Schopp ? 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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6 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

In Bortles' second year (2015) his passing stats were 355/606 (58.6%) for 4,428 yards(7.31 YPA), 35 TDs, & 18 INTs. He also ran 52 times for 310 yards and 2 TDs. If those are Josh Allen's stats in year 2 I think everyone here is pretty excited.

 

OMG Bortles second season, you're da** straight, we'd all be over the moon.  Allen'd be the second coming of Jim Kelly crossed with Cam Newton and a dash of Aaron Rodgers thrown in.

 

For that matter, if Bortles had continued as his second season, I wouldn't be saying he's one of those guys on the edge of my "yes/no" criteria either.

46 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

Do we not know what a franchise QB is? That is a guy who should be making multiple pro bowl trips and maybe 1-2 all pros. 

 

Haha, the Eternal TBD Question!

 

Ah, the gnashing of teeth!  The wailing of words!  The innocent electrons slaughterd in the cause of establishing just that - we all know Mr Franchise when we see him, but agree on the definition of what "franchise" means, we do not!

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The Dean Hall of Famer

The Dean

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Honestly, after the draft, I thought the 1st round QBs went to the best possible team for the team and the player. While I wasn't super hyped about ANY of these QBs I figured one, or two, would pan out--but which one?  If I had to pick one for the Bills it was Allen. Big. Great arm. Tough. Athletic.

 

I admit his "inaccuracy" was a bit worse than I anticipated---especially on the short passes. But I still think that's more an issue of timing, anticipation and form, than anything else. I think I've seen major improvements already. But as others have said, he probably isn't a 65% West Coast Offense kind of player. I'm fine with that.

 

So in a nutshell, I was very positive about Allen when he was drafted. I'm even more thrilled seeing his development this year. 

 

I think the Bills have found their QB IF he can stay healthy. I love that he runs, and how he runs. But for God's sake, get this guy some protection!

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GoBills808 Hall of Famer

GoBills808

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27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OMG Bortles second season, you're da** straight, we'd all be over the moon.  Allen'd be the second coming of Jim Kelly crossed with Cam Newton and a dash of Aaron Rodgers thrown in.

 

For that matter, if Bortles had continued as his second season, I wouldn't be saying he's one of those guys on the edge of my "yes/no" criteria either.

 

Haha, the Eternal TBD Question!

 

Ah, the gnashing of teeth!  The wailing of words!  The innocent electrons slaughterd in the cause of establishing just that - we all know Mr Franchise when we see him, but agree on the definition of what "franchise" means, we do not!

My definition of a franchise QB is a guy who starts 10+ games/year for 5+ seasons. Pretty simple.

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reddogblitz Hall of Famer

reddogblitz

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13 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Either way, 5 TDs in a game don't lie. I can't think of bust QBs who've put up 5 TDs in a game, can you?

 

Ex-Bill Matt Flynn. And they were all TD passes.

 

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/packers-backup-flynn-throws-6-td-passes-1.3422585

 

12 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

Josh was at the Sabres game last night.  The only Bill they showed (that I saw, at least).  That's a positive thing, even if he was in a box ;)

 

Rex and Rob liked to go to Sabres games too. :)

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CajunBillsBacker Veteran

CajunBillsBacker

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I had him as my 2nd QB behind Mayfield, but I have to be honest when our pick came up I was hoping for Rosen even though I wasn’t a fan for no other reason than I wasn’t looking forward to all the bitching and moaning from people. After Allen was picked, I was excited but did my best to stay off Twitter and boards as much as possible through the summer until training camp started.

Now that the dust has settled on the first season, i’m As excited as ever to watch this kid grow into an NFL QB, and aside from a few stranded haters on Twitter, everyone else seems to be finally on board.

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reddogblitz Hall of Famer

reddogblitz

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I am on record while eating an Earl Campbell sausage with my brother in the Jerry Dome parking lot pre-drsft saying "My night mare scenario is we trade up and take Josh Allen" which we indeed did.

 

Now I'm thinking he might be the guy.  All the running and stuff is fun, but you ain't gonna win a heck of a lot of games that way.  Still worried about his passing ability. Sure he can throw it a country mile, but we don't necessarily know where it's gonna come down.

 

I think he is a gamer and has good leadership which is HUGE.  We could play a similar style to Seattle with the scramble drill  plays etc and he can make some big plays.  Still concerned if he is a good enough passer to make it work.  He's got a lot of work to do.

 

So yes,it's changed.

Edited by reddogblitz
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Putin Veteran

Putin

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7 hours ago, CajunBillsBacker said:

I had him as my 2nd QB behind Mayfield, but I have to be honest when our pick came up I was hoping for Rosen even though I wasn’t a fan for no other reason than I wasn’t looking forward to all the bitching and moaning from people. After Allen was picked, I was excited but did my best to stay off Twitter and boards as much as possible through the summer until training camp started.

Now that the dust has settled on the first season, i’m As excited as ever to watch this kid grow into an NFL QB, and aside from a few stranded haters on Twitter, everyone else seems to be finally on board.

I really hope will give Allen everything he needs to succeed , I know McDermott is a defensive coach and it’s important to have a good defense BUT ( IMO ) this free agency and the first half of the draft and trades  should all be about the offense WR , OL , TE and yes even a RB ,, 

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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13 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Do we not know what a franchise QB is? That is a guy who should be making multiple pro bowl trips and maybe 1-2 all pros. 

 

A franchise QB is simply one with which you can win a super bowl with him being a key part of the offense. He doesn't need to be THE reason, but it cannot be in spite of him.

 

Great examples of the above: Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning 

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row_33 Hall of Famer

row_33

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1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

A franchise QB is simply one with which you can win a super bowl with him being a key part of the offense. He doesn't need to be THE reason, but it cannot be in spite of him.

 

Great examples of the above: Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning 

 

No, it’s a QB who is competent....

 

Super Bowl’s??!   What’s that got to do with 28 teams a year?!!!

 

 

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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7 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

No, it’s a QB who is competent....

 

Super Bowl’s??!   What’s that got to do with 28 teams a year?!!!

 

 

 

So, what does "competent" mean? That you CANNOT win a super bowl with him?

 

Because that's not competent.

 

If a QB is good enough to not hold the team back from winning a super bowl, then he's competent, a/k/a a franchise QB.

 

Because if he's not good enough to win a super bowl, then he ain't franchise baby.

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Scott7975 Hall of Famer

Scott7975

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Well, I guess I will finally throw my thoughts into this thread.  I didn't say anything before because I don't watch college ball and therefor had no thought of my own about the Allen pick.  

 

My thoughts at draft time was YEAH they went and got a QB.  I then went and read about what people said about Allen both from the media and here.  I expected the kid to suck hard and be the next EJ Manual.  Then the season got here and as far as throwing wise I was like he seems like he could be somebody but had a long way to go.  I also thought there was no talent around this kid making it look worse than it really was for him.

 

What I also saw was fire and passion from this kid.  I saw leadership and competitiveness from him too.  Something that I hadn't seen on this team from a QB in a long time.  Then I watched Allen grow and get better at some things each and every game.  Now mind you, I am just a fan and don't know the game of football like some of the amazing, smart posters around here, but I see what I see.  

 

What I see is a kid that played pretty damn well for a rookie QB with not much help around him.  The running game was abysmal.  The catching game was abysmal.  The oline was mostly abysmal.  I feel like if he had some of that help spoken about that he would have looked better than he did.  Yes, he did have problems of his own.  Mostly from what should be the easy stuff, but I think he can and will improve there.  He didn't light up the league like Mahomes or Watson.  He didn't even light it up like Baker Mayfield.  However, I think he can get there with the right coaching and some talent built around him.

 

I have a lot of hope and optimism for him going into next season.  I feel like this team itself is doing the things right for a change.  Previous regimes threw random big contract players at the team like they were 1 player away from the Superbowl, never caring about the QB position.  This regime went after their QB and now have the means to build around him this season.  Whether or not they will do a good job at it, I don't know.  Whether or not Allen will improve to be a franchise QB I don't know either... but to me the future is looking the best it has in a really long time.  This front office just need to make the right moves now.

 

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ganesh All Pro

ganesh

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On 1/2/2019 at 9:18 PM, Virgil said:

Yes, absolutely.  I still have him 3rd of the rookies, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.  

 

I think he has the potential to be 2nd if not up there for 1st.  

 

We get him a run game, tight end, and true #1 receiver, and I’ll be really curious.  

 

Without a doubt can make all the throws, (quick slants aside) has the toughness, downfield vision, and heart.  It’s a good start 

and a 100% consummate Teammate.

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The Now Moment Veteran

The Now Moment

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Love the posts saying, I didn't know anything about him at the time so I was pissed.  Basically saying, I looked at his stats and listened to the analysts and started yelling haha.  So was it really your opinion or someone else's opinion you just regurgitated without even watching the kid play? 

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