The Vikings think Allen > Darnold

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I still think people on this board are to ready to call Allen a bust   he has so much talent. But us very raw in his experience.   Once the games slows down for him and he can be surrounded by better talent on offense,  he has a good chance to be the franchise quarterback we are hoping he will be.

 

Too many millennials here , young and old.

 

 

[boater]

7 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Allen is a bust waiting to happen.

That is premature negativity.

 

Allen had a stunted training camp (thank you crap coaches), he has crap game-week and game-day coaching, he has crap surrounding talent. Calling him a bust after a handful of starts is just wrong headed.

[CircleTheWagons99]

3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Couldn’t be the fact one wa s a road game, that they overlooked? And the other a home game they learned not to overlook a team anymore??

HUH?

[billykay]

5 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I still think people on this board are to ready to call Allen a bust   he has so much talent. But us very raw in his experience.   Once the games slows down for him and he can be surrounded by better talent on offense,  he has a good chance to be the franchise quarterback we are hoping he will be.

I hear this so much about Allen - he has so much talent but it is raw. Besides a strong arm, what exactly is his talent. So, he can throw a football real far - so what. His inaccuracy is astounding & that has nothing to do with being raw. Imo, he will cost the Bills the better part of 2-3 seasons before they eventually give up on him. I'm hoping but.......................

[K-9]

We have got to stop using every other rookie’s games as an indictment on Allen, good or bad. 

[longtimebillsfan]

5 minutes ago, billykay said:

I hear this so much about Allen - he has so much talent but it is raw. Besides a strong arm, what exactly is his talent. So, he can throw a football real far - so what. His inaccuracy is astounding & that has nothing to do with being raw. Imo, he will cost the Bills the better part of 2-3 seasons before they eventually give up on him. I'm hoping but.......................

In addition to his physical skills, he has high character,( he does not blame others for his struggles), and he seems to be an effective leader.  If he is the answer to our search for the franchise qb, this 2-3 three years would be worth it (IMHO).

[thunderingsquid]

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

I bet the whole league thinks Mahomes > Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Jackson.

Combined.

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, H2o said:

Darnold is a rookie QB just like Mayfield, Allen, and Rosen. There will be ups and downs for all of them. Darnold also has the 2nd most talent around him behind Mayfield. Allen and Rosen are working with next to nothing. 

Yeah, but the guy who is standing "next to nothing" is Larry Fitzgerald.  

[John from Riverside]

9 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Sam Darnold is starting to separate from the rest of his QB draft class.

 

Tyler Dunne was just commenting on this recently, mentioning Darnold is showing like 5th year understanding already and has the QB experts drooling.  

 

Allen is a bust waiting to happen.

 

 

How many turnovers for Sam yesterday lol

 

You are really comical.....

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Combined.

That's exactly what I was thinking. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Rosen has a ton of talent, and I don't get the drooling over him.  He has Kirk and Fitzgerald at WR, and D. Johnson at RB.     Rosen's issue is play calling perhaps, but he has talent.  

 

Exactly.  Sammy Watkins is the #3-4 receiving target on that team.  Think about that! 

 

Sammy is the #3/4 target on every team 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Sammy is the #3/4 target on every team 

He actually had more yards than Hill last night (one reception was a 50 yarder)

[Fred Clause]

8 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

What is the basis for this statement?   There is nothing to indicate that Darnold is clearly ahead of the rest of the rookie QBs.   Has the same ups and downs as everyone else.

 

AME LOG			PASSING										RUSHING
DATE	OPP	RESULT	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	LNG	TD	INT	QBR	RAT	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
Sun 10/21	vs   MIN	L 17-37	17	42	206	40.5	4.91	35	1	3	5.9	34.4	6	18	3.0	10	1
Sun 10/14	vs   IND	W 42-34	24	30	280	80.0	9.33	32	2	1	90.5	113.9	6	8	1.3	6	0
Sun 10/7	vs   DEN	W 34-16	10	22	198	45.5	9.00	76	3	1	58.0	98.1	3	5	1.7	3	0
Sun 9/30	@   JAX	L 12-31	17	34	167	50.0	4.91	42	1	0	15.6	74.0	2	8	4.0	5	0
Thu 9/20	@   CLE	L 17-21	15	31	169	48.4	5.45	25	0	2	30.9	38.2	0	0	0.0	0	0

The basis is he’s a mindless hater if you have been paying attention. Bottom feeder poster on TBD...

[Lfod]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He actually had more yards than Hill last night (one reception was a 50 yarder)

I think as long as people keep talking like trading Sammy was a mistake you will have others pointing out how Sammy isn't a #1. 

 

On topic:

The Vikings game is that glass is half full moment of the season for me. I look at it like McDermott can coach a struggling team to victory. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Lfod

[Doc]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

How many turnovers for Sam yesterday lol

 

You are really comical.....

 

That comes with 6th year understanding.

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I think as long as people keep talking like trading Sammy was a mistake you will have others pointing out how Sammy isn't a #1. 

It was a mistake, as they have no talent at WR and will likely have to spend multiple high picks and/ or who knows how much $$ to find one. There will always be anti SW crusaders on this board, but it doesn’t change matters any. The picks spent to draft him were a long-sunk cost. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

He actually had more yards than Hill last night (one reception was a 50 yarder)

 

Yolo please don’t let facts get in the way of my crusade against “Sammy-the elite top 5 WR” that never was.... 

 

hes good, I just never bought that he was a competent QB away from canton 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Yolo please don’t let facts get in the way of my crusade against “Sammy-the elite top 5 WR” that never was.... 

 

hes good, I just never bought that he was a competent QB away from canton 

He’s not great by any means, I watched some of the chiefs this year and was surprised to see he had a decent stat line from last night as he’s usually not utilized a ton. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s not great by any means, I watched some of the chiefs this year and was surprised to see he had a decent stat line from last night as he’s usually not utilized a ton. 

 

Glad he had a nice run. Most athletically gifted guy on the field... I’ll never understand what the missing link with him was/is preventing him for reaching his potential 

[ganesh]

12 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I still think people on this board are to ready to call Allen a bust   he has so much talent. But us very raw in his experience.   Once the games slows down for him and he can be surrounded by better talent on offense,  he has a good chance to be the franchise quarterback we are hoping he will be.

Got to agree.  Allen has already demonstrated a lot of things that we have not seen in other former Bills QBs. including leadership.  His footwork is still bad...that is indicative of bad coaching...His reading of defense is limited..but then that is a common theme for all rookie QBs..   

[DefenseWins]

21 hours ago, fridge said:

 

It's not way too early. It's a little early. No need to be delusional and pretend that anything can happen. It's looking like a long shot for Allen and fans need to be honest about that.

 

5 games into his NFL career with a sheet OL and no WR's and you are writing Allen off. Talk about "Delusional"...

 

[Skins Malone]

People already calling Allen a bust have an agenda.  Nothing wrong with being critical even overly critical at times.  Will Allen work out I have no idea right now.  But Darnold has looked bad...Rosen has looked bad...and so has Allen.  They are Rookies playing the hardest position in football.  Just give it a little more time.  Its almost like some of you want him to fail. 

[Teddy KGB]

6 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

People already calling Allen a bust have an agenda.  Nothing wrong with being critical even overly critical at times.  Will Allen work out I have no idea right now.  But Darnold has looked bad...Rosen has looked bad...and so has Allen.  They are Rookies playing the hardest position in football.  Just give it a little more time.  Its almost like some of you want him to fail. 

 

This.    It’s cringy the way a select few posters overcook it 

 

Im not getting a whiff of the Taylor/Fitz/Edwards/Losman stink when I watch the rookie play 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Matt_In_NH]

Darnold completes 56.1%, 10 TD's, 10 INT's 221.7 ypg and a 74.3 rating 

Josh Allen completes 54%, 2 TD's 5 INT's 138.7 ypg and a 61.8 rating. 

 

Darnold throws for 165% more yards than allen per game, has a better rating and TD to INT ratio.  Based on the stats Darnold is significantly ahead.   Neither are performing in a way that will win you a lot of games but Darnold is throwing for a reasonable volume of yards/td's for a rookie.  There are not a lot of signs of life from Allen IMO so far other than a few plays he has made with his legs.  Both can improve immensely though given some more experience this year, an offseason of work and an influx of talent.  I am not gonna lie though, I worry if Allen can get it together.

[SoTier]

On 10/22/2018 at 6:49 AM, Fadingpain said:

Sam Darnold is starting to separate from the rest of his QB draft class.

 

Tyler Dunne was just commenting on this recently, mentioning Darnold is showing like 5th year understanding already and has the QB experts drooling.  

 

Allen is a bust waiting to happen.

 

 

 

Really?  How is he doing that?  By throwing 10 INTs in 7 games?   He has thrown as many INTs as he has TDs, and his stats completion percentage, his TD/INT ratio, and his QB rating aren't as good as Mayfield's. 

 

Against Minnesota Darnold fumbled in the 2nd quarter, was intercepted in the 3rd quarter to give the Vikings a FG, and then was intercepted twice in the fourth quarter which resulted in the Vikes getting 10 more points.  That's 4 TOs in a single game.  Darnold threw for 1 TD and ran for 1 TD. 

[Boatdrinks]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

This.    It’s cringy the way a select few posters overcook it 

 

Im not getting a whiff of the Taylor/Fitz/Edwards/Losman stink when I watch the rookie play 

I’ll agree with this take. Allen has shown much more “ game” than most of those guys. He is so raw, though it’s almsot as if he has to learn how to play the position. Lately, this is what concerns me the most. His numbers vs Darnolds are reflective of his lack of a supporting cast imo. It’s the lack of good offensive coaches on the Bills staff that may prevent his development. They’ve famously botched the vet QB starter situation ,as we know. Does McD bring in a guru QB coach and get a top OC somewhere ? I think the chances of this are low, and that lowers Allen’s odds of success. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Luka]

On 10/22/2018 at 9:07 AM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

B-but Allen was terrible at Wyoming! I even heard Mike Schopp say it on the radio so I know it’s true!

 

Wyoming is currently 2-6 (0-4 in the Mountain West) and is ranked 120th in the FBS subdivision in total offense.

 

Its a wonder why Allen didn’t effortlessly light up opposing defenses with video game numbers in such an offensive machine known as the Wyoming Cowboys football program. 

 

To go from that to this situation in Buffalo - I’m beginning to think that Josh Allen may just be the unluckiest SOB alive.

 

Dude has fought his way to where he is now, he's got a lot more fighting to do. It's unpopular opinion here but I think he'll be alright. Even if it is after Buffalo cuts him or trades him and he goes somewhere else.

 

I just can't believe how short sighted people are around here. The guy currently taking over the record books was iffy at best for a couple years before getting hurt and singing elsewhere. Sure Rivers is good, but Brees is an all time great. With a ring that San Diego never won.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 10/22/2018 at 9:51 AM, VADC Bills said:

We have taken a step back in talent evaluation. The result will be 3-13 seasons. We are moving in the wrong direction.

The QB position is to hard to successfully draft and all of the QB's that were drafted last year seem to have issues regarding consistency that you would expect from a rookie. Allen is the only one that doesn't have a support system and that is poor management. Mayfield is the best and clearly has the best understanding of the game. Allen and Rosen are bringing up the rear in this horse race.

All of the QB's are being mentored by QB's that are proven solid QB's except for Allen. Our GM forgot about this aspect of QB development. Allen may not develop until our GM and coach does. Allen is a 3 year project if given an improving O-Line. 

 

 

You say our GM forgot about developing Allen with a veteran QB but we tried to sign Sam Bradford but he opted for Arizona instead, I'm sure playing with Larry Fitzgerald seemed like a better situation for him. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000920603/article/buffalo-bills-have-interest-in-qb-sam-bradford

[Wayne Arnold]

7 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Dude has fought his way to where he is now, he's got a lot more fighting to do. It's unpopular opinion here but I think he'll be alright. Even if it is after Buffalo cuts him or trades him and he goes somewhere else.

 

I just can't believe how short sighted people are around here. The guy currently taking over the record books was iffy at best for a couple years before getting hurt and singing elsewhere. Sure Rivers is good, but Brees is an all time great. With a ring that San Diego never won.

 

Just the way people are now. Everything is black and white. If something isn’t great right away, it’s terrible and must be discarded immediately.

[sleeby]

This town destroys young QBs careers.  I am of the opinion that the fans and local media are a large part of it too.  These kids come here and people are so impatient - beyond impatient - they expect the kid to fail and root against him where every mistake is magnified into an "I told ya he sucked."

 

Some here have told me that they are professionals who.have been under pressure all of their lives and can take it.  That they don't pay any attention.  Etc.  Nonsense.  They are very young men under a ton of pressure, trying to have a career as other than car salesman,  and being hated on daily.  They are human. 

 

Jim kelly retells his story about arriving in Buffalo airpoint frequently.  He expected to be hated here after refusing us amd escaping to the usfl.  When he arrived at the airport the first time he was greeted by a crowd who cheered him which he thought very unexpected until he got to know us.  Anyhow, he tells the story likely as it was a real moment in his career here.  What if those people had been there to throw hate at him that day?

 

" If you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind."  - robert hunter/jerry Garcia

 

To those who make these posts (all the haters) I wish you would come to the realization that the 12th man on the wall at the stadium is not meant for you anymore than it's meant for the dolphin's fan a section to your left.  Not saying to be a complete homer but how about less of a cancer?  FIVE games!  Cripes.  

Edited October 23, 2018 by sleeby

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, sleeby said:

This town destroys young QBs careers.  I am of the opinion that the fans and local media are a large part of it too.  These kids come here and people are so impatient - beyond impatient - they expect the kid to fail and root against him where every mistake is magnified into an "I told ya he sucked."

 

Some here have told me that they are professionals who.have been under pressure all of their lives and can take it.  That they don't pay any attention.  Etc.  Nonsense.  They are very young men under a ton of pressure, trying to have a career as other than car salesman,  and being hated on daily.  They are human. 

 

Jim kelly retells his story about arriving in Buffalo airpoint frequently.  He expected to be hated here after refusing us amd escaping to the usfl.  When he arrived at the airport the first time he was greeted by a crowd who cheered him which he thought very unexpected until he got to know us.  Anyhow, he tells the story likely as it was a real moment in his career here.  What if those people had been there to throw hate at him that day?

 

" If you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind."  - robert hunter/jerry Garcia

 

To those who make these posts (all the haters) I wish you would come to the realization that the 12th man on the wall at the stadium is not meant for you anymore than it's meant for the dolphin's fan a section to your left.  Not saying to be a complete homer but how about less of a cancer?  FIVE games!  Cripes.  

Or we pick bad QBs and magically expect them to be good in the nfl when they weren’t good in the MWC.

 

 

[sleeby]

^^^^ice^^^^   

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Or we pick bad QBs and magically expect them to be good in the nfl when they weren’t good in the MWC.

 

So many trolls...

[C.Biscuit97]

19 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

So many trolls...

Dispute it.  Besides blind hope and physical skills, what have you seen that makes you think Allen will be a good nfl QB?  I don’t blame him in the slightest that he got overvalued in the draft process.  He had 2 300 yard games in college against California Davis and UNLv.  He is off to a worst start than EJ Manuel.  

[sleeby]

Great arm and throws into tight spaces.  Personality also it seems.  He needs resources to work with now.  Five games with one of the worst NFL offenses in memory.  It's not the other two who've taken the field this year were any better (three if you count AJ in pre season).

Edited October 23, 2018 by sleeby

[GETTOTHE50]

i dont get the darnold love fest.

 

dude is a turnover machine and gave the browns their first win in over what.. almost 2 years?

 

***** him. 

[fridge]

6 hours ago, DefenseWins said:

  

5 games into his NFL career with a sheet OL and no WR's and you are writing Allen off. Talk about "Delusional"...

 

 

I mean, yeah if we're just going to start the excuse train.  I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.  He started 5 games. He could have been good or bad. He was bad.  It's alright, it's not over, he can definitely come back and be a great QB... but you understand that's less likely to happen than if he was good, right? The odds, the percentage, the chance that this happens...realistically speaking... is low.  Like I said, it's not way too early, it's a little early to write the book on Allen. 

 

We gave EJ I believe 14 starts before we pulled the plug, so Allen is already more than a third of the way there.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Or we pick bad QBs and magically expect them to be good in the nfl when they weren’t good in the MWC.

 

 

 

And the Bills repeatedly hire HCs who do their best to see that no QB looks too good because they don't like that new-fangled invention called the forward pass.  I think Mularkey and Gailey were the only two HCs with offensive backgrounds since 2001, and only Gailey was really interested in having a passing offense.  All the others were committed to "run first" offenses even in the face of NFL rule changes that make the passing game dominant.

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, fridge said:

 

I mean, yeah if we're just going to start the excuse train.  I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.  He started 5 games. He could have been good or bad. He was bad.  It's alright, it's not over, he can definitely come back and be a great QB... but you understand that's less likely to happen than if he was good, right? The odds, the percentage, the chance that this happens...realistically speaking... is low.  Like I said, it's not way too early, it's a little early to write the book on Allen. 

 

We gave EJ I believe 14 starts before we pulled the plug, so Allen is already more than a third of the way there.

 

 

How is EJ the gamer doing on his couch this season.