C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 The Development is EJ 2.0 - Josh Allen this is scary how this is completely repeating the EJ picl. Qb with good physical skills gets drafted high and plays before they are ready. Then a mediocre at best journeyman qb replaces them. So weird. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, berg1029 said: With the way they've been protecting QBs this year, you may just have a point. I am actually the Berg of Buffalo my friend, sorry to disappoint No disappointment 'tall. Berg was just a solid OG from back in the 1990's whose tone resembled your own, so I had to ask. 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The Development is EJ 2.0 - Josh Allen this is scary how this is completely repeating the EJ picl. Qb with good physical skills gets drafted high and plays before they are ready. Then a mediocre at best journeyman qb replaces them. So weird. Sorry boss, I don't see any comparison; at least between the two players. Maybe in the circumstances, but Allen is a far more natural athlete and QB than EJ ever was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcalbillsfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Damned if you do, damned if you dont at this point. Sit allen and the entire nfl calls it a tank season and McD puts his job on the line doing so, start him and he gets destroyed and banged up and possibly ruin the franchise QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 41 minutes ago, Simon said: I don't disagree with any of that, but in this particular offense, I don't think those reps are providing any real benefit to him. The chances of him suffering a catastrophic injury are far greater than anything he's going to learn in his current environment. Interesting thought to just sit him the rest of the season. Here is the problem though. I see McD as a stubborn and over confident coach not particularly great at judging QB talent. (Should never have traded AJM without seeing IntercePeterman in real game action, particularly when he knew what happened last year). He will continue to try tell Daboll to scheme around NP' weaknesses and set an all time record of QB rating. Anderson has not been around long enough but maybe he is smart enough to pick up the offensive playbook (playpage?) Adequately enough to get by. Even if he protects the ball and plays small ball, it will be better than what NP offers. Still need another QB though. NP had been on the roster 10 months too long. Sorry for the rambling. I am pretty disappointed in McBeane's handling of the Offensive side of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Start a 35 year old street free agent who was out of football and on a family vacation when he got the call. About as Billsy as talking a washed up Kyle Orton out of retirement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: Interesting thought to just sit him the rest of the season. Here is the problem though. I see McD as a stubborn and over confident coach not particularly great at judging QB talent. (Should never have traded AJM without seeing IntercePeterman in real game action, particularly when he knew what happened last year). He will continue to try tell Daboll to scheme around NP' weaknesses and set an all time record of QB rating. I see coach doing that exact same thing until it bites him square in the bippy. 4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Start a 35 year old street free agent who was out of football and on a family vacation when he got the call. About as Billsy as talking a washed up Kyle Orton out of retirement. I just think you aint' winning with either of them so let the new/old stunt double be the guy that gets his knee rolled up on or gets turfed onto his throwing shoulder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Simon said: I see coach doing that exact same thing until it bites him square in the bippy. I just think you aint' winning with either of them so let the new/old stunt double be the guy that gets his knee rolled up on or gets turfed onto his throwing shoulder. I just think you drafted a guy 7th overall. Get the answer this year instead of getting 4 games into 2019 and deciding to sit a healthy Allen after spending all offseason adding personnel to help him ala EJ Manuel. Realistically the Bills need to draft another QB this coming draft. Anderson won't be here next year and Peterman should be gone already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcalbillsfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: Interesting thought to just sit him the rest of the season. Here is the problem though. I see McD as a stubborn and over confident coach not particularly great at judging QB talent. (Should never have traded AJM without seeing IntercePeterman in real game action, particularly when he knew what happened last year). He will continue to try tell Daboll to scheme around NP' weaknesses and set an all time record of QB rating. Anderson has not been around long enough but maybe he is smart enough to pick up the offensive playbook (playpage?) Adequately enough to get by. Even if he protects the ball and plays small ball, it will be better than what NP offers. Still need another QB though. NP had been on the roster 10 months too long. Sorry for the rambling. I am pretty disappointed in McBeane's handling of the Offensive side of the roster. I usually like alot of McD's decisions, but you definitely have some good points. We had Mcarron pretty cheap, should have kept him. At this point peterman isn't an option. But who honestly could come in and look good with probably the least talented offense in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The Development is EJ 2.0 - Josh Allen this is scary how this is completely repeating the EJ picl. Qb with good physical skills gets drafted high and plays before they are ready. Then a mediocre at best journeyman qb replaces them. So weird. Dude, it's beyond that. Cutting Fitz (Trading Tyrod) without having a replacement drafted, and being in need of a vet QB to play for one more year while the project QB sits. Signing Kolb (McCarron) who then doesnt make it for whatever reasons Not having the proper staff to develop a project QB Throwing EJ (Allen) in immediately Injured Knee (Elbow) in Week 5 (6) knocks him out. Derails what little development was occurring. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Edited October 16, 2018 by DrDawkinstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: I just think you drafted a guy 7th overall. Get the answer this year instead of getting 4 games into 2019 and deciding to sit a healthy Allen after spending all offseason adding personnel to help him ala EJ Manuel. . What kind of answer are you getting right now with Allen? What exactly is he learning? I don't mind drafting another QB but any rookie should get at least 2 seasons before giving up on him. Goff is the most recent good example of taking a huge step up after a terrible rookie season. McBeane had set up the O for failure. The least they can do is minimize the damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Simon said: No disappointment 'tall. Berg was just a solid OG from back in the 1990's whose tone resembled your own, so I had to ask. Sorry boss, I don't see any comparison; at least between the two players. Maybe in the circumstances, but Allen is a far more natural athlete and QB than EJ ever was. He’s off to a worst start to his career than EJ. Hope you’re right but I think they both have weaknesses that are very difficult to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Simon said: I couldn't give a popcorn fart about his feelings or confidence. If those are a concern, he's already done as a QB in this league. I'm talking about him getting seriously injured in a way that is going to negatively affect his physical abilities for the next 15 years. Every player risks injury. It's a violent sport and durability is just as important as talent. That's just the name of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: Every player risks injury. It's a violent sport and durability is just as important as talent. That's just the name of the game. Sure, but I just see a significant difference between the norm of risking injury and the outlier of courting disaster. Swimming in the ocean is one thing, jumping in a shark tank wearing a seal suit is a different sort of recreation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I do think we are seeing chapter 67 in the Bills manual on how to mismanage the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 47 minutes ago, Simon said: Sure, but I just see a significant difference between the norm of risking injury and the outlier of courting disaster. Swimming in the ocean is one thing, jumping in a shark tank wearing a seal suit is a different sort of recreation. Well, that's quite the analogy. I see what you mean though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I'd rather give AJ McCarron a call than have DA start. We're already on the hook with paying him $2.1 mil. My as well bring him back so he can play for that paycheck lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 This whole mentor thing I don't really understand. It's like sending your kid to get mentored by someone who worked at Kodak, Radio Shack or Kmart in high level management. Derek Anderson has done nothing but stuck around and collect checks. He has never shown to be excellent at reading defenses, game management, ball placement. Nothing. He's just a warm body that might not cost you the game like Peterman will. I really don't understand what he can help Allen with. If the coaching staff can't figure out how to show him how to prepare during the week, then they have huge problems. 1 hour ago, Simon said: Sure, but I just see a significant difference between the norm of risking injury and the outlier of courting disaster. Swimming in the ocean is one thing, jumping in a shark tank wearing a seal suit is a different sort of recreation. If that's how they've handled the environment they have thrown an investment like Allen in, I have bigger problems with them. I don't completely disagree with your points on Anderson regarding why he should start. The fact one would describe the situation on offense this way, and throwing a guy your career is tied to just shows complete incompetence in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, PUNT750 said: Anderson last completed a pass in the NFL on 9-24-17. He was not in any team’s camp this summer. From 2011 through 2017 he was with the Panthers and threw 168 total passes for those 7 years. That means 24 total passes per season. His last TD pass was in 2016. He’s getting $760,000 this year for the Bills. A J McCarron is getting $2.1 mil in Dead Cap money from the Bills. Are we really expecting him to start an NFL game for the Bills in 2018? He’s basically been in retirement for the past 7 years! I think it’s pretty crazy. ** I posted this before but another Moderator said it should be merged with another Anderson thread?? I don't see any other Anderson thread but yours. ** Thank you for keeping this great board going! Yes, it is pretty crazy. What is crazier is that Nate Peterman might start instead! It's going to be one or the other IMO; I think Allen is hurt and can't play. The way the QB situation is unfolding should result in someone being fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) The real question of this thread is “Do you start Peterman or Anderson?” Because Allen is definitely hurt and I think worse than they’re letting on to prevent tank mode talk. Edited October 16, 2018 by benderbender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 The only thing I remember about Anderson is that he beat us in 2009 with two completions and a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Let Allen heal is what matters the most. Leave it up to Anderson to decide when he is ready . Peterman's limitations are now known for sure, work around them.This offense needs too much of a rebuild to put Allen at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: If I’ve learned one thing, ONE THING, it’s that there is no appropriate simulation for a live NFL game for QBs. I re learn this every preseason when guys like Trent, EJ, Fitz, Nate, maybe Josh, TT, and the litany of guys o didn’t pay attention to previously. live fire reps are the investment you have to make. Allen has something, but he’s not proven it on the big stage. There is some element of mental processing where these guys click and start seeing things in slow motion compared to the rest. It happened to me in other sports at much lower levels of competitive play, so I get what they are looking for. I guess my point is playing at that level is the only way to find it. Practice reps will never be enough. Sure he'll have to take live reps. Eventually. But practice reps can make a huge difference, as they did with Rodgers. But yeah, sooner or later game snaps are necessary. Later would likely be better in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwnyer Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 What they should do is ring up Peyton Manning and see if he would work with Josh on basic concepts like reading defenses and progressions. Just sit Josh in film room with a proven QB not learning. From a scrub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Real McCoy said: No, let Allen develop ...or heal........... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 If Anderson starts the rest of the year, we win one game if we're lucky. He's old and rusty as hell. With this OL, he will get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Simon said: or at least until he gets hurt. The Bills have dropped an enormous amount of capital to acquire their first true blue chip QB prospect in decades. They then proceeded to surround him with a large pile of sub-par players who simply have no business starting in the NFL. If they continue to trot this kid out there every week, he is going to get hurt. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and how. Maybe they get lucky and he just gets a couple ribs busted up or cracks his left ulna; but if they don't get lucky there is a real significant chance that he's going to get his plant knee torn up, take damage to his throwing shoulder or suffer any of a myriad of injuries that is going to negatively affect him for the rest of his career. And for what? This team is not going anywhere this year with any QB available to them. The staff is desperately trying to scheme around an insurmountable lack of talent but there is only so much you can do and this kid cannot learn jack in that kind of environment. There is virtually no upside into continuing to put him out there and if there is, it is massively outweighed by the downside of him taking permanent damage for no good reason. The Bills should put a headset on him the rest of the year and let him gain experience standing next to coaches and working with a veteran QB 6 days a week. Use a pile of draft picks and cap space to build aan NFL O-line this offseason and put some legitimate skill players on the field around him next year and then see what he's got. Risking this kids long-term health for the sake of letting him gain a little bit of dubious experience in a modified NFL offense is an inexcusable manner in which to risk the kind of prospect which comes around rarely and to which you've devoted a tremendous amount of resources. He'll be just as likely to get hurt next year if he stands next to the coaches for the rest of this year. I believe the upside to keeping him out their heavily outweighs any downside. Even with the rule changes, the NFL is still tough and players get hurt in every game. These coaches you want him to stand next to ..... they all suck and they're the biggest reason he's hurt right now. Specifically Daboll for calling too many pass plays and McDermott for not controlling the situation as head coach. The circus last year with benching Tyrod, then starting Tyrod, then benching Tyrod .... was a joke. If McDermott does the same thing again with different QBs, that's going to tell me a lot about his readiness (or lack there of) to be an NFL HC (the doubts have already begun to creep in). Lastly - Beane and McDermott have built a roster on which Josh Allen is the best QB. Derek Anderson sucks and all of us know it. Peterman .... he's Peterman. Josh Allen is the best QB on the team and not putting the best QB on the field = tanking. Jesus hates tankers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Is CJ Beathard better than Josh Allen?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: He'll be just as likely to get hurt next year if he stands next to the coaches for the rest of this year. I believe the upside to keeping him out their heavily outweighs any downside. Even with the rule changes, the NFL is still tough and players get hurt in every game. These coaches you want him to stand next to ..... they all suck and they're the biggest reason he's hurt right now. Specifically Daboll for calling too many pass plays and McDermott for not controlling the situation as head coach. The circus last year with benching Tyrod, then starting Tyrod, then benching Tyrod .... was a joke. If McDermott does the same thing again with different QBs, that's going to tell me a lot about his readiness (or lack there of) to be an NFL HC (the doubts have already begun to creep in). Lastly - Beane and McDermott have built a roster on which Josh Allen is the best QB. Derek Anderson sucks and all of us know it. Peterman .... he's Peterman. Josh Allen is the best QB on the team and not putting the best QB on the field = tanking. Jesus hates tankers. Agree on everything other than that last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: Agree on everything other than that last sentence. You don't think Jesus hates tankers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Just now, Gugny said: You don't think Jesus hates tankers? Jesus loves everyone, even the people whining on here. Edited October 16, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Forgive me if Im wrong, but I've never heard that Derek Anderson is particularly known for his superlative game preparation. I get it, he's a veteran and all that, but why is it assumed that he has some kind of special insight into preparing for a game, or even being a notable on field leader? And that he will be adept at channeling his experience into "teachable moments" for Allen? I ways thought of him as "just a guy", and basically a one trick pony (deep pass). Edited October 16, 2018 by OJ Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 33 minutes ago, westside said: If Anderson starts the rest of the year, we win one game if we're lucky. He's old and rusty as hell. With this OL, he will get killed. If it's that vs Peterman winning zero games or Allen winning another 2-3 before he gets hurt for real, I'll still take the Derek Anderson scenario 21 minutes ago, Gugny said: These coaches you want him to stand next to ..... they all suck and they're the biggest reason he's hurt right now. Specifically Daboll for calling too many pass plays and McDermott for not controlling the situation as head coach. I guess my comment about standing next to the coaches was more a figure of speech than anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, OJ Tom said: Forgive me if Im wrong, but I've never heard that Derek Anderson is particularly known for his superlative game preparation. I get it, he's a veteran and all that, but why is it assumed that he has some kind of special insight into preparing for a game, or even being a notable on field leader? I think Anderson's most important characteristic is that McDermott and Beane are familiar with him from their time together in Carolina. So its that connection again which as time passes is going to dry up so our management team had better start looking across the entire league. Where there better options available at this point in the season? Now that its reported that Allen is week-to-week with an elbow injury the focus shifts from what to do about Allen to who to start on Sunday. Anderson or Peterman? Pick you poison. Like its said, all battles are won or lost before they begin, and they really screwed the pooch with the QB strategy and player moves in the off season. Cutting McCarron made no sense financially and personnel-wise, keeping Peterman because of a good preseason once again looks foolish, and with Allen out a week or two at best, not having a veteran back-up is going to expose the GM/HC to a lot of second guessing the rest of the way this season. My view with Allen is that along with inexperience wit the pro game he just doesn't trust his offensive line and receivers. On top of all this, I watch Goodwin, Watkins, and Woods and wonder how these guys evaluate the WR position, which is another story but part of the journey that got us to this offensive dumpster fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Anderson hasn't played football since January. Before that, he has started 4 games in the past 7 years. He will be hurt before halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 There are reason's Anderson was not on an NFL roster. The notion that at this point in his career he is ready to be an NFL starter is delusional. If Josh can't play, Peterman starts unless they bring in someone else who can play. Just because we badly need a QB doesn't mean there is one out there worth having. Next stop: the CFL talent pool? Tyrod? Earl Morral? On the bright side, we are looking good for the 2019 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flutie Flakes Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 36 minutes ago, Gugny said: He'll be just as likely to get hurt next year if he stands next to the coaches for the rest of this year. I believe the upside to keeping him out their heavily outweighs any downside. Even with the rule changes, the NFL is still tough and players get hurt in every game. These coaches you want him to stand next to ..... they all suck and they're the biggest reason he's hurt right now. Specifically Daboll for calling too many pass plays and McDermott for not controlling the situation as head coach. The circus last year with benching Tyrod, then starting Tyrod, then benching Tyrod .... was a joke. If McDermott does the same thing again with different QBs, that's going to tell me a lot about his readiness (or lack there of) to be an NFL HC (the doubts have already begun to creep in). Lastly - Beane and McDermott have built a roster on which Josh Allen is the best QB. Derek Anderson sucks and all of us know it. Peterman .... he's Peterman. Josh Allen is the best QB on the team and not putting the best QB on the field = tanking. Jesus hates tankers. We should have never traded McCarron. Foolish move by Beane, but it's too late to lament over it. Allen is "week to week" so it is doubtful he plays against Indy, maybe against Pats* if he is healthy because it is MNF on a national stage, but he could get absolutely wrecked against a tough Bears defense with our $%&# show of an o-line? If he is healthy, he should play regardless BUT I don't want to see them rush him back before he is 100%. There is absolutely no reason to do this. At the end of the day, Daboll needs to make better adjustments to what the opposing defenses show and on pass plays, scheme so that he can get the ball out of his hands quickly. Having him sit back in a pocket is setting this kid up for a major injury. Your a little dramatic saying that "all of our coaches suck" given the level of talent (or lack thereof) that our offense possesses (with the exception of McCoy). The reason Allen is hurt is due to poor play calling, a terrible offensive line and a clear lack of playmakers at wideout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Flutie Flakes said: We should have never traded McCarron. Foolish move by Beane, but it's too late to lament over it. Allen is "week to week" so it is doubtful he plays against Indy, maybe against Pats* if he is healthy because it is MNF on a national stage, but he could get absolutely wrecked against a tough Bears defense with our $%&# show of an o-line? If he is healthy, he should play regardless BUT I don't want to see them rush him back before he is 100%. There is absolutely no reason to do this. At the end of the day, Daboll needs to make better adjustments to what the opposing defenses show and on pass plays, scheme so that he can get the ball out of his hands quickly. Having him sit back in a pocket is setting this kid up for a major injury. Your a little dramatic saying that "all of our coaches suck" given the level of talent (or lack thereof) that our offense possesses (with the exception of McCoy). The reason Allen is hurt is due to poor play calling, a terrible offensive line and a clear lack of playmakers at wideout. I agree that Allen shouldn't play unless he's healthy enough, but I don't think that necessarily means he has to be 100%. Guilty of hyperbole with regard to the coaching staff ... but not much. Again - I think it's mostly Daboll calling terrible games. When he's been forced to go against his pass-happy ways, the line looks better, the running game flourishes and the Bills win. That's on McDermott, who took the defense into his own hands which has resulted in great success (IMO). I know he's not an offense guy, but he is the head coach and he needs to see that passing far too frequently is hurting the team - not to mention his first round QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Sure he'll have to take live reps. Eventually. But practice reps can make a huge difference, as they did with Rodgers. But yeah, sooner or later game snaps are necessary. Later would likely be better in this case. Rodgers went 6-10 his first year starting. Team went 13-3 the prior season with Favre. Rip the band aid off and get on with it already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 i'll wait to see how Anderson looks before putting him on the throne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I would think you have to start Anderson. I can't imagine the locker room if you start Peterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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