simpleman Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 We can not judge Beane on this year’s draft yet, it is way too soon. But we now have a 52+ Million Dead Cap. Worst by a long, long field from the rest of the league. How has he done so far with his signings and decisions? Forget the poor return on his trades, ugg! Look at our Oline mess and our WR disaster. Look how his talent evaluations have fared after the final season roster releases. Signings by Beane for the Bills. WR Kelvin Benjamin RB Marcus Murphy DT Star Lotulelei QB AJ McCarron CB Vontae Davis C Russell Bodine T Marshall Newhouse WR Jeremy Kerley WR Corey Coleman DE Trent Murphy CB Phillip Gaines P Jon Ryan WR Jordon Matthews DE Terrence Fede DT Tenny Palepoi DE Ryan Russell LB Keenan Robinson OT Josh James DT Rickey Hatley CB Breon Borders DT Deandre Coleman RB Travaris Cadet CB Tony McRae CB Sammy Seamster LB Tyrell Adams WR Deonte Thompson S L.J. McCray TE Ryan O'Malley C Adam Redmond CB Greg Mabin S Trae Elston S Shamarko Thomas WR Philly Brown S Robert Blanton LB Jelani Jenkins WR Malachi Dupre QB Keith Wenning TE Rory Anderson S Adrian McDonald CB Jumal Rolle E.J. Gaines WR Anquan Boldin WR Rashad Ross WR Rod Streater, WE Wes Saxton LB Carl Bradford DL Albert Havili FB Sam Rogers DT Tyrunn Walker S Bacarri Rambo OL Karim Barton LB Sam Barrington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 9-7 last year, playoffs, two first-round selections in the top 16...10 picks next year and over $60M in space with your presumed franchise QB under cost control for the next 5 years. Seems pretty good to me so far 21 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Great thread. Thanks for enlightening me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: 9-7 last year, playoffs, two first-round selections in the top 16...10 picks next year and over $60M in space with your presumed franchise QB under cost control for the next 5 years. Seems pretty good to me so far Honestly none of this has anything to do with Beane. Beane's test starts this season. It's his roster to build. His free agents and draft picks. Last years roster was 90% Whaley. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I kinda get the sense people want to run this guy out of town already without even being close to the finished product. lets keep in mind a lot of posters on here thought the team was a dumpster fire last year. Lot of Poyer who threads, and great we signed Hyde the guy who was always hurt and not very good on the Packers defense.. Lot of depth questions and we have no talent at certain positions posts. And let’s not forget the constant barrage of terrible trade posts. Those trades while questionable were just fine. We got something for Watkins who we didn’t want, got one year rental players and draft picks for dropping some guys they didn’t feel they needed or wanted to win or could win with. This regime feels they can get the best out of players with strong work ethic and intelligence. They may not be a powerhouse this year but I expect them to be competitive in most if not all games and they set things up beautifully for next year. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, NewEra said: Great thread. Thanks for enlightening me!! ...yup...listing all of the players he's brought in for tryouts and evaluations probably did it.....churning the roster 24/7 talent is not a good thing....hell, Nix started hibernating in early November when the season was officially over and woke up on Draft Day at 7:45......see what he does in 2019 with 10 picks and megabucks in the FA cookie jar.... Edited September 2, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 If we can’t judge him yet this season we certainly can’t blame him for all the dead cap space since he was hired after the draft last season (when a lot of FA deals were already made) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 minute ago, CuddyDark said: Honestly none of this has anything to do with Beane. Beane's test starts this season. It's his roster to build. His free agents and draft picks. Last years roster was 90% Whaley. WHAT????? All the dead space not on Beane? Allen not on Beane? All the picks next year not on Beane? the $60M in cap not on Beane? The trades last year not one Beane? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 It really comes to to Josh Allen, who I think will be great, if Allen fails, then Beane fails. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: 9-7 last year, playoffs, two first-round selections in the top 16...10 picks next year and over $60M in space with your presumed franchise QB under cost control for the next 5 years. Seems pretty good to me so far You gotta' admit that list looks putrid right now..........there's no Hype/Poyer/Lorax/Zach Brown type pickups.........fans took for granted Whaley's eye for defensive talent on the pro side. And let's be honest here.........they made the playoffs on the strength of a strong start lead almost entirely by Whaley/Nix talent. Without Dareus and Glenn they got much weaker on the LOS and were trying to tackle the tiger by the tail for most of the second half of the season. If Allen pans out and Daboll proves to be a genius hire then the inability to identify good players in pro personnel matters a lot less than it appears to now.........otherwise Beane has dug a pretty deep talent hole. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I think the lack of talent, excluding rookies, on this team and the huge amount of dead cap space pretty much says all you need to know about McDermott/Beane and their personnel skills: they're in over their heads. McDermott is a good game coach. He seems be a great coach at getting the best out of the players he has, but you cannot coach talent. All the coaching in the world is not going to turn a JAG defensive end into Khalil Mack or turn Vlad Ducasse into Dave DeCastro. McDermott is neither Bill Belichick nor Andy Reid; he should stick to coaching, have input into decisions on players, but he should not be charge of selecting player personnel, which it seems he is. Beane seems to like to trade for injured players or players he and McDermott knew from their time with the Panthers, and he wastes draft picks -- as in he wasted a seventh round pick on Corey Coleman when he could have picked him up as a FA 2 weeks later. He also gambles too much. He traded up to take both Allen and Edmunds, both of whom are "projects" rather than players who are bonafide Day 1 starters, although Edmunds is starting because there's nobody else and Allen may start for the same reason. For all those fans salivating over the $90 million in cap space next season, consider that the Bills have so many holes -- mostly made by McDermott and Beane -- that there's not enough talent available in FA or in the draft to fill them all. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: It really comes to to Josh Allen, who I think will be great, if Allen fails, then Beane fails. If that's the case, then the team is in serious trouble as close to half of all rookie QB's fail regardless of how high or low they are picked. There was a chart posted a few months back that showed over the last7 seasons or so, only about 30% of first round QB's became true franchise type QB's. So judging anyone on that is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: You gotta' admit that list looks putrid right now..........there's no Hype/Poyer/Lorax/Zach Brown type pickups.........fans took for granted Whaley's eye for defensive talent on the pro side. And let's be honest here.........they made the playoffs on the strength of a strong start lead almost entirely by Whaley/Nix talent. Without Dareus and Glenn they got much weaker on the LOS and were trying to tackle the tiger by the tail for most of the second half of the season. If Allen pans out and Daboll proves to be a genius hire then the inability to identify good players in pro personnel matters a lot less than it appears to now.........otherwise Beane has dug a pretty deep talent hole. i thought it looked pretty putrid last year at this time as well. No one though Hyde/Poyer was going to do what they did. We have no clue how Star/Murphy are going to perform yet. I guess I am buying more into the long-term plan than just this year..and going forward McBeane has torn this thing down and putting in place what I believe is the foundation for a sustained run when Brady exits stage left... So I think he has done an excellent job..even with what i expect to be a 4-7 win season this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Seems this is about the hanging (of) judge Beane... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Run this thread in two years, this organization was severely mismanaged for over 16 years! Give this team some time! 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, SoTier said: McDermott is a good game coach. Monday through Saturday I agree..think he is mediocre at best on Sundays, but hopefully will get better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpsredemption Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Acquiring draft picks and then lighting them on fire. That goes for McD and Beane. They talk about draft capital and then go ahead and trade picks away. The more cracks you get the better your odds are. These guys don't seem to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, SoTier said: Beane seems to like to trade for injured players or players he and McDermott knew from their time with the Panthers, and he wastes draft picks -- as in he wasted a seventh round pick on Corey Coleman when he could have picked him up as a FA 2 weeks later. He also gambles too much. He traded up to take both Allen and Edmunds, both of whom are "projects" rather than players who are bonafide Day 1 starters, although Edmunds is starting because there's nobody else and Allen may start for the same reason. For all those fans salivating over the $90 million in cap space next season, consider that the Bills have so many holes -- mostly made by McDermott and Beane -- that there's not enough talent available in FA or in the draft to fill them all. Except he's be competing with 30 other teams to pick him up and not to mention would not have had 3 weeks of training camp under his belt to have learned the offense. Just like when the Browns traded for TT, they knew we were going to release him, but they wanted exclusive rights to him so they made the trade. We did the same here for a 2020 7th round pick. So what QB should he have taken instead that you' could argue was a guaranteed day one starter. Everyone one of them had some type of blemish. Yes Darnold is starting, but trhere were/are long term questions about him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: If we can’t judge him yet this season we certainly can’t blame him for all the dead cap space since he was hired after the draft last season (when a lot of FA deals were already made) NO! Every signing I listed was him. Forget the loss of cap on our two oline players to retirement. That still is almost 33 million dead cap for players who are playing for other teams. That alone is more dead cap than the next closest team in dead cap. With just minimal return for those trades. he has been GM for well over a year. We can judge him for over a year of past performance. The facts speak for themselves. Future hopes and prayers are not reality. Just blind faith. And past performance does not support future faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I have no problem with the 50 million dead cap space for this season.Beane got rid of dead weight and bad contracts.Next season the Bills will be almost 100 million under the cap with no real huge contracts left either and with all their draft picks...This is how you reorganize a franchise.We may take some lumps this year ,but I think this organization will be solid the next 15 years....GO BILLS!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Honestly none of this has anything to do with Beane. Beane's test starts this season. It's his roster to build. His free agents and draft picks. Last years roster was 90% Whaley. Everything listed is Beane. He was hired over a year ago. Did he get a one year free vacation before he started his job? These are the solid facts, not some alternate reality. You are judged by your actions, not your future fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: i thought it looked pretty putrid last year at this time as well. No one though Hyde/Poyer was going to do what they did. We have no clue how Star/Murphy are going to perform yet. I guess I am buying more into the long-term plan than just this year..and going forward McBeane has torn this thing down and putting in place what I believe is the foundation for a sustained run when Brady exits stage left... So I think he has done an excellent job..even with what i expect to be a 4-7 win season this year. Hyde we knew was good.........he had been a star down the stretch for GB in 2016. Poyer was a surprise but he looked great all TC. This group of FA's has looked useless in offseason/TC/preseason.........we may not know for sure but being awful or unable to play in camp is definitely your first "clue".? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said: Acquiring draft picks and then lighting them on fire. That goes for McD and Beane. They talk about draft capital and then go ahead and trade picks away. The more cracks you get the better your odds are. These guys don't seem to understand that. Really? We turned 2 firsts into 2 firsts a lot lower in the draft. Got a QB and a LB....Not sure what you expected....Lamar instead? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 19 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: If that's the case, then the team is in serious trouble as close to half of all rookie QB's fail regardless of how high or low they are picked. There was a chart posted a few months back that showed over the last7 seasons or so, only about 30% of first round QB's became true franchise type QB's. So judging anyone on that is bad. This just in, most GMs fail too. There might be a connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 More of the same **** on a different day. People are like squirrels, no long term vision or memory. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: More of the same **** on a different day. People are like squirrels, no long term vision or memory. And fish...In fact I like the use of fish better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 20 minutes ago, simpleman said: NO! Every signing I listed was him. Forget the loss of cap on our two oline players to retirement. That still is almost 33 million dead cap for players who are playing for other teams. That alone is more dead cap than the next closest team in dead cap. With just minimal return for those trades. he has been GM for well over a year. We can judge him for over a year of past performance. The facts speak for themselves. Future hopes and prayers are not reality. Just blind faith. And past performance does not support future faith. Drought ended. Is that good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Cant judge him on dead cap space. He was weeding out the bad contracts left by the former GM. That's how its done. Having poor cap space this year wont hurt. Next season lets see how he spends it. We are inline to have the 2nd most cap space next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, simpleman said: NO! Every signing I listed was him. Forget the loss of cap on our two oline players to retirement. That still is almost 33 million dead cap for players who are playing for other teams. That alone is more dead cap than the next closest team in dead cap. With just minimal return for those trades. he has been GM for well over a year. We can judge him for over a year of past performance. The facts speak for themselves. Future hopes and prayers are not reality. Just blind faith. And past performance does not support future faith. So what are you trying to prove? You listed all of the guys he signed, there’s like 40 guys there, some of them are depth guys? Not every signing is going to be an All-Pro, teams are 53 deep. We have 52M+ dead cap for this season, while still fielding a team. They wanted to get rid of large contracts that hampered that process. He didn’t sign Dareus to the large deal, or Cordy Glenn, or Tyrod, or Eric Wood, or Incognito...big money deals very rarely work out. All of those guys were being paid a lot of money to be unreliable, whether it be performance based, attitude based or injury based. Beane made the decision now to move the salary, take the cap hit in 2018, and then free up the books in the following seasons. Sure, he could have kept all of those guys, and he would have been forced to pay them in 2018, 2019, 2020, and beyond. It’s your choice, those 5 players I listed are not winning us a Super Bowl. What do you want in return in trades? Unless you’re trading a premier NFL player, high draft pick compensation is not common for players with large contracts. Dareus was shopped to the entire league, the best offer we got was a 6th rounder, that speaks to his value. Sammy Watkins returned a 2nd rounder and our #2 corner on a playoff team? Watkins wasn’t being re-signed anyway. Tyrod for a 3rd when he was getting cut is pretty damn good. Trading Glenn (who played 6 games last year) to move up in the draft and put you in position to take your Franchise QB, doesn’t bother me. McCarron for a 5th... that’s a return on value 4 years after he was drafted in the 5th round. What I’m sensing here is someone who really doesn’t understand how this all works. The playoffs were something that was unexpected last year, the goal here is to build the team the right way. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsTT0821 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I don’t get all this hate. We knew that this team needed to be rebuilt and players brought in that for there scheme and everyone is getting mad. Darby didn’t buy into the system so he was sent out. Your mad about Watkins the person Whaley traded up for passing by Mack or the receivers that were drafted later and better than him. So he tore the team apart to built what they vision as a team unfortunately that involved fixing the cap problems from Whaley. And after one season of not being able to pursue many FA we will be in great cap shape. So maybe everyone should relax. One down season to hopefully build sustained success is worth it. We have had a lot worse running our team the last 18 years so give them some time to show there vision and what they can make. Oh by the way where was all this Beane and Mc Dermott hate last year when we were “tanking the season” and we made the play offs?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 hour ago, simpleman said: We can not judge Beane on this year’s draft yet, it is way too soon. But we now have a 52+ Million Dead Cap. Worst by a long, long field from the rest of the league. How has he done so far with his signings and decisions? Forget the poor return on his trades, ugg! Look at our Oline mess and our WR disaster. Look how his talent evaluations have fared after the final season roster releases. Signings by Beane for the Bills. WR Kelvin Benjamin RB Marcus Murphy DT Star Lotulelei QB AJ McCarron CB Vontae Davis C Russell Bodine T Marshall Newhouse WR Jeremy Kerley WR Corey Coleman DE Trent Murphy CB Phillip Gaines P Jon Ryan WR Jordon Matthews DE Terrence Fede DT Tenny Palepoi DE Ryan Russell LB Keenan Robinson OT Josh James DT Rickey Hatley CB Breon Borders DT Deandre Coleman RB Travaris Cadet CB Tony McRae CB Sammy Seamster LB Tyrell Adams WR Deonte Thompson S L.J. McCray TE Ryan O'Malley C Adam Redmond CB Greg Mabin S Trae Elston S Shamarko Thomas WR Philly Brown S Robert Blanton LB Jelani Jenkins WR Malachi Dupre QB Keith Wenning TE Rory Anderson S Adrian McDonald CB Jumal Rolle E.J. Gaines WR Anquan Boldin WR Rashad Ross WR Rod Streater, WE Wes Saxton LB Carl Bradford DL Albert Havili FB Sam Rogers DT Tyrunn Walker S Bacarri Rambo OL Karim Barton LB Sam Barrington So, for context could you please include signings over the same time frame for,the other 31 GMs so we may confirm,that,other GMs sign nothing but All Pros? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Beane has done fine in his short time here so far. Compared to his predecessors he looks like a keeper. Give it another couple years then he can be really evaluated on what he's done but right now he is too new at his job to fairly be judged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said: It really comes to to Josh Allen, who I think will be great, if Allen fails, then Beane fails. Yep. This is the deal plain and simple. He's playing a long game and got us out from a lot of bad contracts. He's also entered us into some questionable deals and we'll see how they play out this year. I do fault him for the OL. He did suffer an unexpected loss of our interior OL, but he had time to do something more about it than the stiffs he brought in. I still have strong faith in his vision and plans. And at the end of the process, if Allen pans out, he's a damn genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 This is clearly a three year plan. Last year was getting rid of contracts and numerous players that didn’t buy in. They still managed to sneak into playoffs which was great. This year is the real painful one. Getting Josh some experience without being able to give him weapons or protection. Some of his offensive signings were dreadful on paper and on field so far. We are weak or pitiful at all but two of the seven positions. We will see soon how well it turns out on field. Josh could surprise. Next year, with all the money and few guys to get rid of will be the true test. He needs to fill over ten positions with solid starters. He set himself up to do it. We will see what he spends his huge resources on. Then we will know what kind of GM he is. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Drought ended. Is that good enough? Honestly no. That's not good enough for me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Didn't we complain for 15 years that no regime wanted to do what needed to be done to set us up for long term success? There is no one year fix for a team that was so bad for so long. Last year was year 0 - we cleaned out the stink of 15 years and yes it left us with a lot of dead cap. This year is year 1. We will not be a very good football team and whoever we start at QB is a question mark at best. Next year we will have a full draft and $65 million to spend in free agency, plus one year of experience for the hopeful franchise QB. Beane finally tore it all down and he did that part of the rebuild very well. In a couple years we'll see how he did with the 2nd part of the plan. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Not sure what you are trying to prove by the list. By definition when the training camp roster is 90 and you and keep 63 including practice squad, there will be "misses". He will be measured by: 1. Play-off berths, then wins 2. Development of Allen and Edmunds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 It’s called ‘the Process’. The ONLY important people who have to buy into it are Terry & Kim Pegula. They do. End of story. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 2 hours ago, CuddyDark said: Honestly none of this has anything to do with Beane. Beane's test starts this season. It's his roster to build. His free agents and draft picks. Last years roster was 90% Whaley. Umm. Last year was gutting the team of Whaley's picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: More of the same **** on a different day. People are like squirrels, no long term vision or memory. I can remember where I keep my nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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