Allen should start with #1's

[Kelly the Dog]

13 minutes ago, Yeezus said:

 

B+ is very generous. he gets a solid C. Missed quite a few throws, but made up for it with some plays with his legs. Arm strength is there but still needs work on the deep connection with the WR's. 

Two of the three deep balls were excellent passes and should have been caught. The third was caught in stride but OB. That was not good but just faded on him. 

[gobills1212]

4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Two of the three deep balls were excellent passes and should have been caught. The third was caught in stride but OB. That was not good but just faded on him. 

Exactly! I took a bunch of things away from his performance, most of which was exciting bc of potential(positive and negative) - but his long ball isnt even something i thought of let alone worried about..

[Bockeye]

12 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

What I see is inconsistency, which is going to be his personal demon throughout his career.

 

The entire issue with him is whether or not he can play on a high level, consistently.  We now he can do it here and there.

 

He was also displaying a tendency to bail on the pocket and run which I didn't like, though I won't draw too many conclusions from it tonight b/c he was getting murdered back there.

 

I totally agree he should get time with the #1s.  I don't see the point in trying to evaluating him behind the 3rd string line at all!

 

 

Call me blind, but a few posters are saying he "bailed the pocket".  Not true at all - he either stood tall, stepped up, or fled the pocket because pressure was actually coming.  Watch the entire series of his throws and point to an instance where he bailed the pocket (maybe I missed one).   Quite the opposite, if you focus solely on his movement in the pocket he did very well, the only real gaffe being his run backwards and almost throwing a pick. 

 

Also - for the media fawning Mayfield over Allen, watch all of Allen's throws and then watch all of Mayfield's throws last night.  I think you'll be impressed with Allen (not knocking Mayfield).  Mayfield had some head scratching throws in the same manner of "what was that".  Overall though, I'd say Allen had a few more WOW throws and tougher throws than Mayfield.  Going to be fun watching these rookie QB's. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Bockeye
Apologies to ScottLaw - I mixed Mayfield in on the accuracy of Allen. 

[Wayne Cubed]

5 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Folks are overlooking all the stuff Allen did wrong or poorly and focusing on the odd highlight type throw or run that he admittedly did make on occasion.

 

That's not good enough in the NFL long term though.  

 

For now, it is, b/c we have no expectations, it's the pre-season, and Allen is a rookie getting his first playing time in.

 

Allen will need to continually eliminate physical and mental errors as well as play on a consistently high level if he is going to develop into the player the Bills hoped he would be.

 

The fact that he can make a great throw on occasion is not the measure of success.

 

 

 

 

 

Come on, your bias is completely showing in this post. The odd highlight throw? Do you think every QB makes every throw 'hightlight type'? The clue is in the name, it's a highlight type throw BECAUSE it's made on occasion. Otherwise they'd just be called, 'a throw'.

 

He had 4 very, very good throws('hightlight type'), had 2 standard throws on comebacks and 3 throws that showed he does have touch on his short passes, a knock on him coming out. Those were his completions. He also threw 2 long balls that were very well thrown and if it wasn't Foster, they might have actually been caught. He had a couple drops, mind you he put the ball where it needed to be on those throws and Foster(surprise, surprise) and Proehl dropped them. Those, IMO, are his positive throws.

 

Saying that he had 2 balls he definitely shouldn't have thrown, the long one to Foster was 1 yard out of bounds, tried to force two in and had a pass broken up. Also, on 2 of his throws it's tough to tell where the miscommunication was, did Allen throw to the wrong spot or did the WR run a wrong route? We don't know. Anyways those are his poor throws.

 

You know what we didn't see? The inaccuracies that were talked about coming out. 

 

No one's overlooking what he did poorly, it just wasn't nearly as bad as you make it sound.

 

 

[Fred Clause]

6 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Folks are overlooking all the stuff Allen did wrong or poorly and focusing on the odd highlight type throw or run that he admittedly did make on occasion.

 

That's not good enough in the NFL long term though.  

 

For now, it is, b/c we have no expectations, it's the pre-season, and Allen is a rookie getting his first playing time in.

 

Allen will need to continually eliminate physical and mental errors as well as play on a consistently high level if he is going to develop into the player the Bills hoped he would be.

 

The fact that he can make a great throw on occasion is not the measure of success.

 

 

 

 

Some are ignoring the enormous pressure he faced and that he was dealing with receivers that won’t be on the team in 3 weeks...

[Misterbluesky]

6 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Grading Allen on a curve (which we all should; it’s his very first game) I’d give him a B+. Not ready to start, but looks much closer than I’d thought he’d be.

 

One thing I saw that stuck out: his footwork looked pretty bad in the 3rd quarter, and then seemed to markedly improve in the 4th. I chalk that up to nerves I guess.

 

i did not see him “constantly under immediate pressure” as others have suggested. Looks like that popular excuse from college is going to carry over into his pro years.

 

he probably should have went 12/19 (63%, which is good enough) Foster did him no favors, but Lee bailed him out on a pass that should not have been thrown.

 

all in all, pretty good.

Don't forget the fact not one of the wideouts got separation on the 2 pt conversation attempt...but yet some people are pinning the failed play on him too.

[wppete]

 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Getting bigger Matthew Stafford vibes from him. I hope we surround him with weapons that accentuate his strengths.

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Don't forget the fact not one of the wideouts got separation on the 2 pt conversation attempt...but yet some people are pinning the failed play on him too.

 

The issue is, in that situation, on a 2 point conversion, you can’t let the play break down like that. He needed to get rid of the ball and at least give somebody a chance to make a play. 

 

It’s a 2 point conversion, there is zero downside to just letting it rip. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Mango

[jrober38]

Josh Allen looked exactly how I expected him to look. He has an enormous arm, he can move really well to avoid pressure, and he completes a low percentage of his passes. 

 

Ultimately we score 7 points with him on the field. Given how Peterman and McCarron looked, Allen is still the #3 guy until further notice. He showed flashes, but he's got to show he can move the chains more consistently to challenge for the #1 job. 

[Misterbluesky]

John Murphy just said he wants Allen to start against Cleveland.

[ndirish1978]

Allen shouldn't start the season so I don't want him starting Game 2. He can play the entirety of game 3 once they settle on a starter though, he needs live reps to grow, but I don't want him leading the offense yet. 

[Misterbluesky]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

Allen shouldn't start the season so I don't want him starting Game 2. He can play the entirety of game 3 once they settle on a starter though, he needs live reps to grow, but I don't want him leading the offense yet. 

Game three is a dress rehearsal for the opening day starter.

[Bangarang]

With how AJM and Peterman looked, I don’t see that happening. He’ll have to earn that opportunity.

[LikeIGiveADarn]

9 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

John Murphy just said he wants Allen to start against Cleveland.

 

I think you start McCaron next week so you can properly evaluate who starts between him and Peterman week 3 and to stsrt the season, and start Allen the last game.

[NewEraBills]

Honestly, I thought other than the rookie play, Allen actually looks like he belongs.  He showed poise and command in the huddle.  I thought he was late on the one perimeter pass early 4th qtr which could have led to an INT.  His deep pass to Foster in the 4th really should have been a TD.  Foster slowed himself down which prevented him from being where the ball landed for the catch.  Foster better turn things around quickly because right now he's cutting himself.  Allen hit Foster on a hitch in the 4th and he just dropped it.  Hit him right in the chest.

 

Allen showed good mobility too.  The Panthers did bring pressure against him a couple of times and I like the way he escapes.  Now this was a string of plays about 5 mins or so left in the 4th where the Panthers turned it up a little.  I think they rattled Allen a little bit.  It's good for him though.  He needs to see that, learn from it.

[BillsFan4]

13 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

9/19 = 47% 

his college percentage in 2017 was 56%

He needs to improve in this area before he can start.

Ideally the floor is 60%, and from what we saw tonight he has a long way to go.

 

Had Proehl or Reilly (whoever it was) not dropped that pass, and if Foster hadn’t stopped running on that long ball or slowed down to track the other long ball, suddenly Josh Allen is 12 for 19 with a 63.19 completion %. 

 

 

I know that’s not how it works. But his accuracy last night wasn’t nearly as bad as that 47% stat line makes it look. 

 

 

I agree that he has a ways to go yet before he’s ready to start. 

[LABILLBACKER]

14 hours ago, Beach said:

You can see the potential and you can also see he is NOT ready yet.  

That's fine. I don't want to see him rushed in for our own eagerness. Let him develop. Nate and AJ can hold down the fort.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

Had Proehl or Reilly (whoever it was) not dropped that pass, and if Foster hadn’t stopped running on that long ball or slowed down to track the other long ball, suddenly Josh Allen is 12 for 19 with a 63.19 completion %. 

 

 

I know that’s not how it works. But his accuracy last night wasn’t nearly as bad as that 47% stat line makes it look. 

 

 

I agree that he has a ways to go yet before he’s ready to start. 

Bingo

 

Everyone wants to poke at the completion percentage....he is throwing BOMBS which are always going to be lower percentage...they are also more big play high scoring game potential

[Misterbluesky]

1 minute ago, LikeIGiveADarn said:

 

I think you start McCaron next week so you can properly evaluate who starts between him and Peterman week 3 and to stsrt the season, and start Allen the last game.

Allen needs to play with the #1's at some point.

[Freddie's Dead]

Murph is all over Allen's jock, saying he needs to start next week with the Browns.  Taskcleanshaven says that Allen has to "earn it", whatever TF that means.  "Charlie" Murphy on right now.

[Rockpile233]

I was pleased with what we saw last night. The talent is clear, but I don’t see any reason to rush his development. Saw him miss some throws and then he’d turn around and have a wow moment.

 

I admit I’d like to see him get some preseason action with talent around him, but they also have to prepare whoever gets the starting nod.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Rockpile233

[Freddie's Dead]

6 minutes ago, Rockpile233 said:

I was pleased with what we saw last night. The talent is clear, but I don’t see any reason to rush his development. Saw him miss some throws and then he’d turn around and have a wow moment.

 

I admit I’d like to see him get some preseason action with talent around him, but they also have to prepare whoever gets the starting nod.

 

 

 

 

 

This is exactly the argument that Murph and Tasker are having.  It's a fascinating dilemma, one we haven't had in Buffalo since the infamous Flutie/Johnson catfight.

[K-9]

53 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

The issue is, in that situation, on a 2 point conversion, you can’t let the play break down like that. He needed to get rid of the ball and at least give somebody a chance to make a play. 

 

It’s a 2 point conversion, there is zero downside to just letting it rip. 

99.99% of the time this may be true. But to say "zero" is inaccurate. A turnover taken in for a score by the defense results in 2 points awarded to the defending team. Unlikely, but still possible. 

[Sky Diver]

AJ, JA, and NP.

[Dr.Sack]

I need to watch the game but from what I’ve read he’s not ready yet. I’m fine with that as he’s 22 and really has limited college experience at a non power conference. He’s got the arm and his mobility seems good. He just needs time to develop. Let things marinate and hopefully he’ll be ready in the next 1-2 seasons. 

[Mango]

23 minutes ago, K-9 said:

99.99% of the time this may be true. But to say "zero" is inaccurate. A turnover taken in for a score by the defense results in 2 points awarded to the defending team. Unlikely, but still possible. 

 

They get two and you’re still down by a possession. So still fine throwing the ball.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Mango

[GimmeSomeProcess]

7 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

I need to watch the game but from what I’ve read he’s not ready yet. I’m fine with that as he’s 22 and really has limited college experience at a non power conference. He’s got the arm and his mobility seems good. He just needs time to develop. Let things marinate and hopefully he’ll be ready in the next 1-2 seasons. 

Your commenting on something you haven’t seen, that makes zero sense 

[frostbitmic]

In his first taste of NFL football Allen showed exactly what he is ... He's a first round draft pick with exceptional size, arm strength and a lack of fear throwing the ball. He also showed that he's a rookie and wasn't on the same page as his receivers on some plays and a little inaccurate on others.

 

He also played behind a line and with receivers who for the most part will be flipping burgers or selling insurance in another month.

 

I thought he looked pretty good for his first time out.

[gobills1212]

4 hours ago, Juror#8 said:

Allen looked like he had one professional live action game under his belt. Allen is a gunslinger and a playmaker in the making. He will be fine. 

 

As an aside, why do people insist on adding an apostrophe + s to most words that ends in an “s” though that word possesses/owns nothing in the sentence? 

 

“Allen should start with the 1’s.”  

 

The one’s what? Finish the sentence. You used an apostrophe + s so there has to be something else there. Does that one own a car or a house or some Vaseline intensive care? 

 

What does that mean? What the !@#$ does the “1” own in this instance? I get it ... “grammar shmammar,” right? But what is so hard about dropping the misplaced apostrophe and making the sentence actually make sense?

 

Why not, simply: “Allen should start with the 1s.”

 

Boom. Easy. Shows a mastery of really basic English and one less keystroke to boot. 

 

To me that’s too easy not to do. 

 

Sorry, along with improper usage of “than” and “then” it’s just a pet peeve. 

I think becoming the grammar police on a message board where ppl abbreviate, use web lingo, and do things short hand will turn into a full time job. I dont think you want that lol

[SouthNYfan]

33 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

AJ, JA, and NP.

 

The bias doesn't shock me.

If you felt Allen did enough to jump np then he did enough to jump aj, who played at best no better than no.

Not shocked you want the 'bama guy starting though.

[dubs]

After last night, I feel much better about the QB situation and actually most of the offense.  I think we saw a huge difference between the Dennison/Taylor combo.  Not exactly sure where the blame lies in the past, but probably a combo of both.

 

With Daboll and a QB who seems to play more of a traditional QB position, we saw decisiveness, hitting receivers coming out of their breaks, deeper over the middle throws, and what I thought was surprisingly decent pass protection in the first half.  If we see more of what we saw last night, I think we keep three QBs and the pecking order for week 1 is:

 

McCarron

Peterman

Allen

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by dubs

[Sky Diver]

5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

The bias doesn't shock me.

If you felt Allen did enough to jump np then he did enough to jump aj, who played at best no better than no.

Not shocked you want the 'bama guy starting though.

 

AJ should have gotten the start based on seniority. Not a good locker room decision.

[gobills1212]

37 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

I need to watch the game but from what I’ve read he’s not ready yet. I’m fine with that as he’s 22 and really has limited college experience at a non power conference. He’s got the arm and his mobility seems good. He just needs time to develop. Let things marinate and hopefully he’ll be ready in the next 1-2 seasons. 

Its hard to comment on it if you havent watched...

Furthermore, its crazy looking at the comments (for example) on the you tube vid of all his throws. Some laugh and say he looked terrible and was jeff george/cutler/russell 2.0 (i disagree and dont think they watch much football) and some say that validated the bills using the #7 pick on him + trades. Its all over and proof how polorizing the kid is. Not a situation where u shld listen to other to form ur opinion. 

Watch it, form your own and then give it a whirl

[SouthNYfan]

14 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

AJ should have gotten the start based on seniority. Not a good locker room decision.

 

You don't start a guy based on "seniority"...

Even if you are, it makes no sense, since this is Nate's second year with the Bills, and AJ is a new FA, so Nate had seniority within the team, not AJ.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

AJ should have gotten the start based on seniority. Not a good locker room decision.

 

most consistent alabama homer ever

 

[ColoradoBills]

Just finished watching the game.

NP and AJM looked very good.

Next game they will reverse and AJM will start with NP with the 2s.  Allen gets the 2nd half again.

 

Week 3 is "dress rehearsal", whoever is picked as starter plays into the 3rd and if Allen looks good next week he can get

the rest of the game with the 2s and 3s.

 

Hopefully Allen plays well enough to start the 4th game.  Let him play the whole game if possible.

 

Allen looked pretty good for his first NFL play.  It seems to me some fans have rated his 1st performance too highly and some too lowly.

He did well but needs a lot more snaps and has to continue to develop.

 

I know there is only one final cut down date but that does not preclude a team from trimming the roster ahead of time to give more snaps

to players on the fence and those "battling" for the PS spots.

[Juice_32]

I just want him starting by Nov 11th so he can break Jamal Adams fingers.

[mjd1001]

I'm OK with him not starting with the first team yet.  The coaches see a LOT more of what he is absorbing and not absorbing, see a LOT more of the throws he makes and doesn't make.  If the coaches think he should get a start with the first time, then let him PRACTICE with the first team before playing.   If they think he should stick with the 2's and 3's, I'm ok with that also.

[SouthNYfan]

5 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

most consistent alabama homer ever

 

 

Seriously.

This isn't a union based on seniority, it's a performance based depth chart.

If we used the 'bama homer mentality, then anybody with more time in the league should get the start over anybody with less time.

I guess that the eagles shouldn't start wetnz when he's ready since he has less time in the league than files.