Khalil Mack holding out... in Buffalo

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Watkins> Benjamin (not by much)

Kerley> Woods (People are underestimating Kerley)

Hogan> Z. Jones (Will be a pleasant surprise if Zay steps up this year, but doubtful)

 

I think Watkins and Benjamin are a wash. They do different things, but neither of them stay healthy, and neither of them are consistant. 

 

Woods is definitely better than Kerley, we just never used Woods well. He showed last year that he’s easily a high end #2/low end #1. With us we treated him as a low end #2 and didn’t get production out of him. I would pay money to have him back. 

 

There’s not many in WR in the top 3 on any team that aren’t better than Jones. Part of that is him not having a ton of chance to prove himself, and part of that is missed opportunities when he did get the chance. I hope he steps up, but it’s not looking great so far.

[billsfan5121]

1 hour ago, Zebrastripes said:

I don't think the wrs were worse than what we have this year.  Watkins, Woods, snd Hogan are definitely better than what we have right now.

I think his point is we drafted Watkins and not Mack because our receivers were bad.  So don’t count Watkins here.  Our WR Corp would’ve been woods, Stevie, Goodwin.  I don’t believe Hogan was there yet either.  Maybe he was.  I don’t recall.  But our WRs were very weak so it definitely made sense at the time.  Maybe not the move up, but the position itself 

[billsfan_34]

30 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I think Watkins and Benjamin are a wash. They do different things, but neither of them stay healthy, and neither of them are consistant. 

 

Woods is definitely better than Kerley, we just never used Woods well. He showed last year that he’s easily a high end #2/low end #1. With us we treated him as a low end #2 and didn’t get production out of him. I would pay money to have him back. 

 

There’s not many in WR in the top 3 on any team that aren’t better than Jones. Part of that is him not having a ton of chance to prove himself, and part of that is missed opportunities when he did get the chance. I hope he steps up, but it’s not looking great so far.

I agree, Sammy and Kelvin can be equally frustrating/disappointing. It would be interesting to see of they both stay healthy this year. Both have a big ? for a qb getting them the ball. Woods is one hell of a ball player, I was sad to see him go. Kerley can also play some damn good ball- I think many will be pleasantly surprised. On to Zay- time for him to take the next stop and get rid of the dropsies too! Go Bills

[bbb]

4 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I love all the Captain Hindsight in here. Take a look at our 2014 roster and tell me where we needed help most. That Dline was stacked. The WRs might have been worse than this years going into the draft.

 

I agree with this.  I know I wanted a WR and would have not been happy with anybody but a WR in that draft. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....ouch.......

 

Raiders All-Pro Khalil Mack facing $814,000 fine for holdout

ESPN -10:54 AM

 

Oakland Raiders defensive end Khalil Mack continues his holdout and will not be in the team's camp on Friday, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

 

By not showing up to camp before the Raiders' first preseason game on Friday against the Detroit Lions, Mack will be fined $814,000 per the collective bargaining agreement, Schefter reports.

 

Mack is entering the final season of his rookie contract that is set to pay him $13.8 million. He has stayed away from the team and new coach Jon Gruden throughout the offseason program and mandatory minicamp while awaiting a contract extension.

Edited August 10, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BullBuchanan]

If he's the greatest pass rusher of all time ( which he's not), he'll still never be able to live up to the contract he's going to get. You simply can't pay that kind of money to players who don't throw touchdown passes. The Patriots don't, the Seahawks don't, the Steelers don't, the eagles didn't last year.

 

If you want a championship team you have to have a lot of guys that outperform their deals either by getting them before they're stars, or as reclimation projects on prove it deals. 

[bobobonators]

15 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If he's the greatest pass rusher of all time ( which he's not), he'll still never be able to live up to the contract he's going to get. You simply can't pay that kind of money to players who don't throw touchdown passes. The Patriots don't, the Seahawks don't, the Steelers don't, the eagles didn't last year.

 

If you want a championship team you have to have a lot of guys that outperform their deals either by getting them before they're stars, or as reclimation projects on prove it deals. 

 

I don’t disagree with you. Mack isn’t just an above average defender, though. He’s arguably a top 3 defender in the entire NFL. If average QB’s like Flacco and Cam can carry a cap hit well over $20m/yr then we can pay one of the best defenders that money while we have Allen on the cheap. 

 

The Second most valuable position besides a QB in a passing league is a player that can get sacks in a passing league. 

 

It’s a delicate balance committing a player to that much money, but our cap situation is great. We have Allen under contract for years. By the time Allen is up for another contract, Mack’s contract will be winding down. Front load his contract now. 

 

Id trade the Raiders Shady McCoy and our 1st round pick for Mack. 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just an FYI, Mack was in Buffalo to visit his brother who plays for UB. He's not there now and he didn't hang out waiting for a call from Beane.

[wppete]

7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....ouch.......

 

Raiders All-Pro Khalil Mack facing $814,000 fine for holdout

ESPN -10:54 AM

 

Oakland Raiders defensive end Khalil Mack continues his holdout and will not be in the team's camp on Friday, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

 

By not showing up to camp before the Raiders' first preseason game on Friday against the Detroit Lions, Mack will be fined $814,000 per the collective bargaining agreement, Schefter reports.

 

Mack is entering the final season of his rookie contract that is set to pay him $13.8 million. He has stayed away from the team and new coach Jon Gruden throughout the offseason program and mandatory minicamp while awaiting a contract extension.

 

Whats are these guys thinking???? Their agents are just screwing them for their cut of the next contract. they dont care if they are lossing almost $1million a game.

 

This is emabarrasing. no wonder these players go broke 

[BullBuchanan]

27 minutes ago, wppete said:

 

Whats are these guys thinking???? Their agents are just screwing them for their cut of the next contract. they dont care if they are lossing almost $1million a game.

 

This is emabarrasing. no wonder these players go broke 

If the players don't stand their ground, then threats have no real bite. Considering his tax burden will be reduced, it won't be quite as big a deal. He would've lost at least 40% of that to tax anyway.

 

The players Union should push for NHL style contacts and then this whole thing goes away. No more holdouts everyone guaranteed.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If the players don't stand their ground, then threats have no real bite. Considering his tax burden will be reduced, it won't be quite as big a deal. He would've lost at least 40% of that to tax anyway.

 

The players Union should push for NHL style contacts and then this whole thing goes away. No more holdouts everyone guaranteed.

I tend to agree with them standing their ground. Mack may take a $13.8M hit this year but he’s looking at $70M guaranteed next year. It’s not worth the risk IMO. If he goes out there and gets hurt he never sees that. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I tend to agree with them standing their ground. Mack may take a $13.8M hit this year but he’s looking at $70M guaranteed next year. It’s not worth the risk IMO. If he goes out there and gets hurt he never sees that. 

 

....what about the risk if Chuckie tags him next year?.............

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....what about the risk if Chuckie tags him next year?.............

Chuckie won’t have the chance...he’ll be one and done.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Chuckie won’t have the chance...he’ll be one and done.

 

.....and Davis will hire Wrecks next after paying Chuckie his 90 mil.......gotta love it.....

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....and Davis will hire Wrecks next after paying Chuckie his 90 mil.......gotta love it.....

Seriously, I think the Raiders are going to be a train wreck under Gruden.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Seriously, I think the Raiders are going to be a train wreck under Gruden.

 

 

....LOL...me too......he never impressed me much as a HC......I'm betting the lipstick on his arse is HIS OWN.......only a DAVIS would cough up a 10 yr, $100 mil deal...paging Joe Gibbs....

[LaDexter]

38 minutes ago, mannc said:

I think the Raiders are going to be a train wreck under Gruden

 

 

The sad truth is that the BUCS ended up that way before Gruden went into the booth....

 

Gruden is no good at the DRAFT.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....what about the risk if Chuckie tags him next year?.............

I’d bet my life that he isn’t reporting without a guarantee that he won’t be tagged. 

[BuffaloRebound]

I’d almost be surprised if Mack isn’t traded.  Not saying it will necessarily be to the Bills but Gruden’s giant ego combined with Oakland’s cash problems give Mack all the leverage.  Gruden thinks he doesn’t need him and Davis can’t pay him.  Can’t see them passing up an attractive offer.  

[MAJBobby]

No trading. 

 

Just take Nick Bosa in the draft (personally I would rather a more Offensive Heavy Draft) 

[BillsFan4]

10 hours ago, wppete said:

 

Whats are these guys thinking???? Their agents are just screwing them for their cut of the next contract. they dont care if they are lossing almost $1million a game.

 

This is emabarrasing. no wonder these players go broke 

 

The team has the option to enforce the fines or not. 

 

Much of the time teams choose not to. All is forgiven once the player reports and/or signs his new deal. 

 

Holding out is really about the only leverage a player has in a situation like this. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d bet my life that he isn’t reporting without a guarantee that he won’t be tagged. 

 

...good point, but I'd bet Chuckie doesn't cave.......and I doubt Davis overrides his 100 million dollar coach....

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...good point, but I'd bet Chuckie doesn't cave.......and I doubt Davis overrides his 100 million dollar coach....

If that’s the case Mack my sit out the whole year and lose the $13.8M. He’s looking at $70M guaranteed next year. Mack is in a unique situation where he can do that. He can go to the Raiders and say, “I want a long term deal or I’m not reporting.” The Raiders can concede by forgoing the tag to get Mack back playing this year. I actually think that is the likeliest scenario at this point.

[Pete]

The longer Mack sits, the better the odds he gets traded.  

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If that’s the case Mack my sit out the whole year and lose the $13.8M. He’s looking at $70M guaranteed next year. Mack is in a unique situation where he can do that. He can go to the Raiders and say, “I want a long term deal or I’m not reporting.” The Raiders can concede by forgoing the tag to get Mack back playing this year. I actually think that is the likeliest scenario at this point.

 

 

I thought I heard that in the unlikely scenario of him not reporting at all this season that would result in him becoming a RESTRICTED free agent.     I thought he just didn't get any service time toward unrestricted FA so was still obligated........but then I saw this on the bottom line on ESPN.  So could be wrong.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

39 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I thought I heard that in the unlikely scenario of him not reporting at all this season that would result in him becoming a RESTRICTED free agent.     I thought he just didn't get any service time toward unrestricted FA so was still obligated........but then I saw this on the bottom line on ESPN.  So could be wrong.

 

...interesting perspective...I did find this little tidbit which may clarify.....he does have four years of accrued service...........

 

by Joel Corry-@corryjoel-Jul 23, 2014 CBS SPORTS

 

"Getting the year of service isn't a consideration with holdouts with four or more years of service. They already have enough service time to qualify for unrestricted free agency. "

[ddaryl]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If that’s the case Mack my sit out the whole year and lose the $13.8M. He’s looking at $70M guaranteed next year. Mack is in a unique situation where he can do that. He can go to the Raiders and say, “I want a long term deal or I’m not reporting.” The Raiders can concede by forgoing the tag to get Mack back playing this year. I actually think that is the likeliest scenario at this point.

 

I do believe Mack would have to at least make himself available for 6 games. If he holds out an entire season he doesn't get credited for the year. SO the Raiders would still hold the 5th year option. Mack is going to have to report at some time, and next year he will have to face the Franchise tag

[RocCityRoller]

Please make this happen...

 

Biscuit 2.0

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I thought I heard that in the unlikely scenario of him not reporting at all this season that would result in him becoming a RESTRICTED free agent.     I thought he just didn't get any service time toward unrestricted FA so was still obligated........but then I saw this on the bottom line on ESPN.  So could be wrong.

 

53 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

I do believe Mack would have to at least make himself available for 6 games. If he holds out an entire season he doesn't get credited for the year. SO the Raiders would still hold the 5th year option. Mack is going to have to report at some time, and next year he will have to face the Franchise tag

 

NFL RFA rules only apply to players with 3 accrued seasons.

ERFAs are for players with 1 or 2 years accrued.

 

Mack has 4 years accrued already and I cannot find any exceptions for 5 year option players.

Mack MUST play for Oakland this year.

He can be signed, traded or cut by Oakland but if he sits out he doesn't get paid but it seems he will be a full UFA next year.

Of course Oakland could always tag him next year.

Edited August 11, 2018 by ColoradoBills

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

NFL RFA rules only apply to players with 3 accrued seasons.

ERFAs are for players with 1 or 2 years accrued.

 

Mack has 4 years accrued already and I cannot find any exceptions for 5 year option players.

Mack MUST play for Oakland this year.

He can be signed, traded or cut by Oakland but if he sits out he doesn't get paid but it seems he will be a full UFA next year.

Of course Oakland could always tag him next year.

 

...as expected, you're absolutely correct bud....4 years accrued is the lynch pin....good job......and Chuckie may be devious enough to tag him...no way Davis gets in his way...he's the 100 million dollar boy......SMH

Edited August 11, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[RocCityRoller]

Davis Jr is broke. That is why he moved the Raiders to Las Vegas. $$$

 

The fact that the NFL moved into Las Vegas is terrible, and a mixed signal.

 

Better to not have a holdout situation and get a 1st round pick for Mack. Buffalo is there with the cap and love.

Edited August 12, 2018 by RocCityRoller

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Davis Jr is broke. That is why he moved the Raiders to Las Vegas. $$$

 

The fact that the NFL moved into Las Vegas is terrible, and a mixed signal.

 

Better to not have a holdout situation and get a 1st round pick for Mack. Buffalo is there with the cap and love.

Mark Davis looks like Bucky Larson.

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

this is who we are dealing with....

 

I remain optimistic.

Edited August 12, 2018 by RocCityRoller

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Mark Davis looks like Bucky Larson.

 

 

 

I never heard of that film but apparently it was directed by Tom Brady.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_Larson:_Born_to_Be_a_Star

 

It also got a score of 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.

[Kirby Jackson]

59 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I never heard of that film but apparently it was directed by Tom Brady.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_Larson:_Born_to_Be_a_Star

 

It also got a score of 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Yeah, I knew it was awful and couldn’t think of what it was called. I saw a tweet about it the other day and it jogged my memory. Every time I’ve ever seen Mark Davis I’ve thought about that guy but couldn’t remember the name.  

[JohnC]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I thought I heard that in the unlikely scenario of him not reporting at all this season that would result in him becoming a RESTRICTED free agent.     I thought he just didn't get any service time toward unrestricted FA so was still obligated........but then I saw this on the bottom line on ESPN.  So could be wrong.

What you saw on the bottom line on ESPN probably referred to the Donald situation with the Rams. ESPN was posting that the Rams were intensifying the negotiation with Arnold. 

[PromoTheRobot]

48 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yeah, I knew it was awful and couldn’t think of what it was called. I saw a tweet about it the other day and it jogged my memory. Every time I’ve ever seen Mark Davis I’ve thought about that guy but couldn’t remember the name.  

 

But you know what? Adam $andler $till made million$ from that film. He laugh$ at the critic$. 

[njbuff]

I would just assume to wait till he becomes a FA in 2019 and the only cost will be money (which the Bills will have plenty of), instead of giving up players and draft picks for him.

 

I would be the most shocked man in the universe if he re-signed with the Raiders.

[GreggTX]

If we didn't already have decent DE's and his price was right, sure. There's no question about his ability. I just don't think we can afford him.

[YoloinOhio]