how is Josh Allen doing so far?

[billsfan89]

17 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Pretty much. He has great arm strength, makes good throws, makes bad throws, has much more to learn.

 

Allen is a project, he needs to mature in a lot of aspects of his game. Unless there is an injury or Allen performs dramatically better in camp/pre-season there should be no need to rush Allen into action. Allen might need 2 years to sit depending on how well the coaching staff is able to work with him. 

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're trolling, right? Aaron Rodgers would have been a home run pick at #1 overall. Most rookies don't start game one these days. I'll assume you're joking.

 

I wasn't trolling; I was joking.

 

And the Aaron Rodgers comparison would work if AJ McCarron was already an imminent first-ballot Hall of Famer.  So the comparison doesn't work.

10 minutes ago, Paulus said:

The attention whore with a heart for eveyone...

 

Part of me is happy to be a regular, but the other part of me misses the Vegas Knight's "professionals" walking the subs on these here boards. It sucked when they all got picked up by the reality police. 

 

I'm happy that you're regular, too.  It shows, babe.

[billsfan89]

14 hours ago, Gugny said:

If a team drafts a QB within the first 10 picks and he doesn't start game one ... then he was the wrong pick.  Period.

 

Eli Manning wrong pick, Phillip Rivers wrong pick, Carson Palmer wrong pick, Jared Goff wrong pick, and there are many other examples of QB's not playing right away that went on to be uber successful in the NFL. In fact there is evidence that sitting a QB for most of their rookie year is the best way to go. This has to be trolling. 

[SouthNYfan]

Looks great in shorts.

[John from Riverside]

13 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

My 2 cents on this.

 

Before the draft, NO ONE anywhere was saying Josh Allen would be a day one NFL starter.  If ever there was a guy who needed to "sit and learn" it is Josh Allen.  Allen is the same guy today he was before the draft..a physical specimen with a powerful arm....who has CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE flaws that need to be addressed before he would be considered ready to get onto an NFL field.  

 

Allen is at MINIMUM a one year bench project and probably should be brought along even more slowly than that given what he is at this point.  For comparison, look no further than Paxton Lynch.  Go read his scouting reports pre draft a couple years ago..he was a "2-3 year project" with great size and arm who played in a spread BLA BLA BLA.  They knew he was a project when they took him....and they got impatient and have given up on him already out there.  I can't say it's justified to have given up or not, but it's a little unfair to call a "2-3 year project" a bust when you haven't given him 2-3 years EVERYONE though it would take to develope the guy.  This is the danger with Allen.  It is VERY HARD for a coaching staff to survive at 2-3 year development QB and see it though to where it pays off.  If NOTHING ELSE, then ending the playoff drought last season might have bought your staff enough credibility and time to see it through....but that won't matter if the team is losing while waiting for Allen to be ready and the fans quit showing up...ownership will be tempted to compell the coaches to get the kid on the field NOW, or fire the coaches to placate the impatient fans.  It's going to be a rough go.  ....and after the time has been put in...you better get some results that show he is the QB to lead the team or a housecleaning comes and this all starts over again.

 

One other note....as much as I love Mahomes...and I think he could have started and done fairly well last season, KC had a pretty unique situation being able to sit the kid, work on his issues, while fielding a division winning team with a really good QB onboard already.  Whole lot easier for even me, to wait while Smith was still leading a good football team.  

 

Buffalo has a really rough schedule to start the year off.  Let AJ take that beating..take the negative press, ....Allen needs work and reps...for at least a whole year....I'm normally of the shcool of thought that if a QB is going to be good, then he will be good wether he sits or not. ...this would be an exception.  You drafted a KNOWN project...now let him go through "THE PROCESS" of being a project.  If it is going to pay off at all, it has to be this way.

If Mahommes started in his first year he probably would have looked like crap.....

 

he frankly didnt look great in the little time he got

[Alaska Darin]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Eli Manning wrong pick, Phillip Rivers wrong pick, Carson Palmer wrong pick, Jared Goff wrong pick, and there are many other examples of QB's not playing right away that went on to be uber successful in the NFL. In fact there is evidence that sitting a QB for most of their rookie year is the best way to go. This has to be trolling. 

Given the BILLS are replacing pretty much the entire interior of the OLINE, it probably behooves the team to wait to put a green rookie under center.

 

I think there are rare cases when starting a first round QB is the ok but the majority of the time there is significant risk.

 

[John from Riverside]

14 hours ago, Gugny said:

If a team drafts a QB within the first 10 picks and he doesn't start game one ... then he was the wrong pick.  Period.

Yeah I really dont agree with that

 

It really is gonna depend how the other qbs look....if AJM looks decent he should stop and let AJM work on his body mechanics....there really is not a need to rush him.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I wasn't trolling; I was joking.

 

And the Aaron Rodgers comparison would work if AJ McCarron was already an imminent first-ballot Hall of Famer.  So the comparison doesn't work.

 

 

I have a hard time with any of these type of comparisons.

It seems to me that if Josh Allen needs development that's what the Bill's coaches should be doing concerning him and him alone.

Whatever the timeline is should not be driven on how well AJ McCarron or Nate Peterman are playing.

[FappyTheClown]

[Buffalo716]

14 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

My 2 cents on this.

 

Before the draft, NO ONE anywhere was saying Josh Allen would be a day one NFL starter.  If ever there was a guy who needed to "sit and learn" it is Josh Allen.  Allen is the same guy today he was before the draft..a physical specimen with a powerful arm....who has CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE flaws that need to be addressed before he would be considered ready to get onto an NFL field.  

 

Allen is at MINIMUM a one year bench project and probably should be brought along even more slowly than that given what he is at this point.  For comparison, look no further than Paxton Lynch.  Go read his scouting reports pre draft a couple years ago..he was a "2-3 year project" with great size and arm who played in a spread BLA BLA BLA.  They knew he was a project when they took him....and they got impatient and have given up on him already out there.  I can't say it's justified to have given up or not, but it's a little unfair to call a "2-3 year project" a bust when you haven't given him 2-3 years EVERYONE though it would take to develope the guy.  This is the danger with Allen.  It is VERY HARD for a coaching staff to survive at 2-3 year development QB and see it though to where it pays off.  If NOTHING ELSE, then ending the playoff drought last season might have bought your staff enough credibility and time to see it through....but that won't matter if the team is losing while waiting for Allen to be ready and the fans quit showing up...ownership will be tempted to compell the coaches to get the kid on the field NOW, or fire the coaches to placate the impatient fans.  It's going to be a rough go.  ....and after the time has been put in...you better get some results that show he is the QB to lead the team or a housecleaning comes and this all starts over again.

 

One other note....as much as I love Mahomes...and I think he could have started and done fairly well last season, KC had a pretty unique situation being able to sit the kid, work on his issues, while fielding a division winning team with a really good QB onboard already.  Whole lot easier for even me, to wait while Smith was still leading a good football team.  

 

Buffalo has a really rough schedule to start the year off.  Let AJ take that beating..take the negative press, ....Allen needs work and reps...for at least a whole year....I'm normally of the shcool of thought that if a QB is going to be good, then he will be good wether he sits or not. ...this would be an exception.  You drafted a KNOWN project...now let him go through "THE PROCESS" of being a project.  If it is going to pay off at all, it has to be this way.

Sorry. You lost me at Paxton Lynch... him and Allen are nothing alike

 

Lynch played in a full gimmicky spread and couldn’t dream about making some of the throws Allen makes. Allen played under center making pro styled reads 

 

Mahomes had the same  footwork flaws as Allen and they were even worse... he also never played under center 

 

If you think Mahomes could have started, Allen can too because they are very similar . Only Allen is 6’5 240lbs and has a stronger arm and a better athlete 

 

Mahomes had a lot of question marks as well

[gjv001]

Allen is doing just fine.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Sorry. You lost me at Paxton Lynch... him and Allen are nothing alike

 

Lynch played in a full gimmicky spread and couldn’t dream about making some of the throws Allen makes. Allen played under center making pro styled reads 

 

Mahomes had the same  footwork flaws as Allen and they were even worse... he also never played under center 

 

If you think Mahomes could have started, Allen can too because they are very similar . Only Allen is 6’5 240lbs and has a stronger arm and a better athlete 

 

Mahomes had a lot of question marks as well

To be perfectly honest (and something that should scare the heck out of our resident Chiefs fan) the better comparison in players is probably Mahommes to Lynch

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, Gugny said:

If a team drafts a QB within the first 10 picks and he doesn't start game one ... then he was the wrong pick.  Period.

 

I think that was the viewpoint our late unlamented GM Buddy Nix held.   The result was reluctance to pull the trigger and "reach for" or "overvalue" a QB.

 

With the decrease of pro-readiness in college QB due to the change in college offenses and the increase in the importance of the QB position, I no longer think it's true.

[Gugny]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that was the viewpoint our late unlamented GM Buddy Nix held.   The result was reluctance to pull the trigger and "reach for" or "overvalue" a QB.

 

With the decrease of pro-readiness in college QB due to the change in college offenses and the increase in the importance of the QB position, I no longer think it's true.

 

I agree 100%.

[ToGoGo]

Looking at the offense, this team is currently built for McCarron or Peterman to be the starting QB. They need to draft or sign some elite speedsters when Allen is ready to start. Kerley and Streater aren't close to enough. 

[MJS]

16 hours ago, Gugny said:

If a team drafts a QB within the first 10 picks and he doesn't start game one ... then he was the wrong pick.  Period.

 

Your opinion is noted. Move along.

[Gugny]

Just now, MJS said:

 

Your opinion is noted. Move along.

 

Read the rest of the posts, sweetpea.

[MJS]

8 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

How can you say he's wrong? This isn't 2004 bud ... I sort of agree with this. He has the easiest competition then any QB, it's not like he's going against Joe Flacco or Sam Bradford... his competition is McCarron & Peterman... top 10 QB's normally start...if he isn't ready...then why draft him in the top 10??

This was a good point

 

Top 10 QB's usually don't start week 1 lately. Goff sat. Wentz started. Watson sat. Mahomes sat. Trubisky sat.

 

Pretty normal for top QB's to sit at least for the first few weeks of the season.

[BB@Shooter]

2 hours ago, gjv001 said:

Allen is doing just fine.

Exactly.  How come we get no detailed report on any of the other qbs? Hmmmm.......  I see Allen as doing what is expected, more or less. And then I see  a bunch of guys with too much time on their hands who act like they are part of the staff throwing out opinions on how he looks. None of the guys cutting on him have ever seen him throw a pass in person, little alone in camp. But they are all wannabe experts. Self anointed know it alls. Makes me giggle reading them puff up and throw out their "professional " opinions. Most laughable. These types just need to practice what they preach, give themselves time to actually watch him themselves, and then give out an opinion. But you can't fix stupid. Not that I am calling anyone in particularly stupid, maybe their thoughts though.

Edited June 8, 2018 by BB@Shooter

[Kemp]

Allen is still a QB on the Bills.

[Klaista2k]

Sounds like he's been missing a lot of throws that he need to make.

 

Hate to say it but he's probably gonna bust. 

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, Klaista2k said:

Sounds like he's been missing a lot of throws that he need to make.

 

Hate to say it but he's probably gonna bust. 

 

Where on earth are you getting "a lot" of throws? I haven't heard that at all. Ive heard one or two. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

Exactly.  How come we I get no detailed report on any of the other qbs?

 

FIFY

 

Said reports are out there.  But if you believe they're not, it might hinder your ability to find them

 

Example from this week's press access day:

Peterman on fire

Nathan Peterman took the bulk of the reps with the first-team offense on Thursday and thrived in doing so. He completed 17 of his 21 passes during team drills and looked particularly impressive during the two-minute drill portion of practice. Three of his completions went to Brandon Reilly on Thursday and another three went to Jeremy Kerley. Peterman seemed to be much more decisive with the football than we've seen him in the past. 

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/06/36557332563730/10_observations_from_week_3_of.html#incart_river_index

 

Example from last week's press access day:

AJ McCarron has been the most consistent QB for the Bills

McCarron is received the majority of the first-team reps for the Bills this week, followed by Nathan Peterman and Josh Allen. (It was Peterman first last week.) He was consistent in the two-minute drill, and though it didn't end up in a touchdown he led the team into the red zone.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/6/1/17416554/buffalo-bills-ota-recap-from-thursday-practice-josh-allen-tremaine-edmunds-kyle-williams-may-31

[Prickly Pete]

I think this is (another) thread for people to pontificate about how a rookie QB should be developed. No one here knows enough to make any meaningful statements, and I'm not even sure if the BIlls have a solid idea  how to proceed yet.

 

In other words, it's all poppycock.

 

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

I think this is (another) thread for people to pontificate about how a rookie QB should be developed. No one here knows enough to make any meaningful statements, and I'm not even sure if the BIlls have a solid idea  how to proceed yet.

 

In other words, it's all poppycock.

 

 

 

This may be the first time ever, but you just may have been the first person to have offended poppycock. 

[Prickly Pete]

Just now, Augie said:

 

This may be the first time ever, but you just may have been the first person to have offended poppycock. 

 

 

"Poppycock" is a very effective tool.

[BillnutinHouston]

6 hours ago, musichunch said:

Looking at the offense, this team is currently built for McCarron or Peterman to be the starting QB. 

 

Kindly elaborate with details.

[TigerJ]

I just listened to Chris Brown on One Bills Live (aka, The John Murphy/Steve Tasker Show).  It was the recorded version at the Bills website.  I know the Bills pay his salary, so you have to take that into account with anything he says, but What I take from it is: Allen is mentally behind McCarro and Peterman, but that is to be expected as they've had the playbook longer and as veterans they would be expected to master it more quickly.  Allen is learning quickly and making up ground.  Brown did not address accuracy.  Allen has missed some passes as per reports by others.  I think the reasons for that are varied, and some are issues that will take care of themselves as Allen gets more familiar with the offense and his receivers (and vice versa) Others have been missed because he still needs to become more consistent in his delivery (footwork etc.)  The thing that seems to stick out for Chris Brown is that Allen is not mentally flustered in the slightest.  He knows the plays he's supposed to do, knows what his receivers are supposed to do and has an easy command of the huddle.

Edited June 9, 2018 by TigerJ
spelling

[Albany,n.y.]

22 hours ago, Gugny said:

If a team drafts a QB within the first 10 picks and he doesn't start game one ... then he was the wrong pick.  Period.

There's a good chance that none of the 4 QBs taken in the top 10 will be starting on opening day.  I wouldn't be inclined to write any of them off that soon.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Bills coach Sean McDermott wouldn't rule out Josh Allen getting first-team reps at minicamp.

 

Allen has been practicing with third-stringers behind A.J. McCarron and Nathan Peterman. He's in the early stages of learning Buffalo's scheme. The Bills want to fast track Allen and could get him some time with the starters before the end of next week's minicamp.

 

 

Source: ESPN

Jun 8 - 5:11 PM

[YoloinOhio]

 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

On 6/8/2018 at 1:11 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Sorry. You lost me at Paxton Lynch... him and Allen are nothing alike

 

Lynch played in a full gimmicky spread and couldn’t dream about making some of the throws Allen makes. Allen played under center making pro styled reads 

 

Mahomes had the same  footwork flaws as Allen and they were even worse... he also never played under center 

 

If you think Mahomes could have started, Allen can too because they are very similar . Only Allen is 6’5 240lbs and has a stronger arm and a better athlete 

 

Mahomes had a lot of question marks as well

Great post! Allen is the better prospect than mahomes. Mahomes was never considered a top 10 pick until 1 month before the draft. Allen was for a year and half. If I’m choosing between mahomes or Allen/Tre white I’m taking what we got all day long 

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Great post! Allen is the better prospect than mahomes. Mahomes was never considered a top 10 pick until 1 month before the draft. Allen was for a year and half. If I’m choosing between mahomes or Allen/Tre white I’m taking what we got all day long 

I liked Mahomes last year, but if you had told me we'd end up with Allen/White/Edmunds, I'd happily go with the latter. Indeed, straight up comparison, I prefer Allen, though I still think Mahomes can be quite good.

[GaryPinC]

On 6/8/2018 at 1:11 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Sorry. You lost me at Paxton Lynch... him and Allen are nothing alike

 

Lynch played in a full gimmicky spread and couldn’t dream about making some of the throws Allen makes. Allen played under center making pro styled reads 

 

Mahomes had the same  footwork flaws as Allen and they were even worse... he also never played under center 

 

If you think Mahomes could have started, Allen can too because they are very similar . Only Allen is 6’5 240lbs and has a stronger arm and a better athlete 

 

Mahomes had a lot of question marks as well

Allen is a better athlete then Mahomes?  Not on this planet.  Mahomes is far more mobile and accurate off balance then Allen.  Allen is a great athlete for being a 6'5" gork, but Mahomes is quicker and more agile.  Allen has a slightly stronger arm but Mahomes isn't far behind.

Both QB's get the ball out very quickly but I give the edge to Mahomes because he's more compact.

As far as Mahomes' footwork, a good part of it is unorthodox because he used to be a pitcher and that's the footwork he uses on his long throws.  It's not like he doesn't set his feet it's just very unorthodox in this sport.

 

The thing that separates Mahomes from almost any other quarterback is he processes the game and makes decisions at a very high level.  The guy who wrote this article gets it, just check out the videos and explanations if you don't feel like wading through all the prose:

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/3/16842168/patrick-mahomes-all-22-vs-the-broncos-buckle-up

 

That's why the Chiefs had no problem trading Alex Smith, not because of Mahomes' stats or any one play he did or didn't make.  He got out there vs a pressure Bronco defense and made good reads and quick decisions.

 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Allen is a better athlete then Mahomes?  Not on this planet.  Mahomes is far more mobile and accurate off balance then Allen.  Allen is a great athlete for being a 6'5" gork, but Mahomes is quicker and more agile.  Allen has a slightly stronger arm but Mahomes isn't far behind.

Both QB's get the ball out very quickly but I give the edge to Mahomes because he's more compact.

As far as Mahomes' footwork, a good part of it is unorthodox because he used to be a pitcher and that's the footwork he uses on his long throws.  It's not like he doesn't set his feet it's just very unorthodox in this sport.

 

The thing that separates Mahomes from almost any other quarterback is he processes the game and makes decisions at a very high level.  The guy who wrote this article gets it, just check out the videos and explanations if you don't feel like wading through all the prose:

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/3/16842168/patrick-mahomes-all-22-vs-the-broncos-buckle-up

 

That's why the Chiefs had no problem trading Alex Smith, not because of Mahomes' stats or any one play he did or didn't make.  He got out there vs a pressure Bronco defense and made good reads and quick decisions.

 

 

Yes Allen is a better Athlete. He’s 3 inches taller 25 pounds heavier and he ran a faster 40. 4.75 compared to 4.8... he is also shifty and elusive especially for his size

 

Josh Allen also breaks way more tackles in the pocket and outside the pocket than Mahomes. He’s a better athlete on the football field

Edited June 9, 2018 by Buffalo716

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Yes Allen is a better Athlete. He’s 3 inches taller 25 pounds heavier and he ran a faster 40. 4.75 compared to 4.8... he is also shifty and elusive especially for his size

 

Josh Allen also breaks way more tackles in the pocket and outside the pocket than Mahomes. He’s a better athlete on the football field

 

BUT....who is the better bowler? 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

On 6/8/2018 at 6:58 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Example from this week's press access day:

Peterman on fire

Nathan Peterman took the bulk of the reps with the first-team offense on Thursday and thrived in doing so. He completed 17 of his 21 passes during team drills and looked particularly impressive

 

Example from last week's press access day:

AJ McCarron has been the most consistent QB for the Bills

Yeah, but what did they roll in a three game series?  Ok, for fairness' sake, alley balls and rental shoes.

[Turk71]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

BUT....who is the better bowler? 

I am!

On 6/8/2018 at 5:11 PM, OJABBA said:

I think this is (another) thread for people to pontificate about how a rookie QB should be developed. No one here knows enough to make any meaningful statements, and I'm not even sure if the BIlls have a solid idea  how to proceed yet.

 

In other words, it's all poppycock.

 

 

I am pretty sure it is mostly brouhaha, with some poppycock and balderdash sprinkled in.

[Zerovoltz]

***I am biased***  but being as objective as I can be here....

 

1.  I don't want to lose site of the actual thread topic.  This is a Josh Allen thread and about how he is doing.  The reports coming out all match up with his scouting report.  He has an incredible arm.  He is mobile.  He looks the part, and he is missing some throws.  He is behind the others learning the playbook because the others have been here longer but he is catching up....high wonderlic score would indicate he can learn fast.  This is ALL as advertised.....and he needs to SIT.  I've done some analysis of QB's who started in the super bowl over the past 20 years and I looked at the first 16 games each of them started.  The data in this case shows that sitting did not matter.  A guy who sat 3 years had the same QB rating as the guy who started from day one over the course of the their first 16 games.  It suggests that a super bowl starting caliber QB is going to be good wether he sits or not....and that the first 16 games of on field experiecne matter more than anything else.  ......in the case of Allen, I would say he is one of the few who WOULD BENEFIT from sitting.  His low completion pct playing at a small school, and the notion that he had a poor line and had to move around a lot suggests his reps in college were not very productive reps....in that he was often repeating plays where he had to run around etc and throw to less than decent targets....he isn't at a point where he would benefit by getting on an NFL field until he's had a TON of reps, in practice, with NFL level coaching, getting him prepared for the speed of the game, getting him used to the idea that he'll need to trust a pocket will be there and make reads to guys moving a lot faster.  He needs to sit at least a year for all of this to take hold.  Against the data, in this case...the exception is Josh Allen...there has never been such an obvious case for completely ruling a guy out of any plans to start for at least a year than this case with Allen.  For the benefit of your team and your future....root for him to SIT.

 

2.  Again...I am biased....and trying to be objective as I can....Mahomes is going to be a generational talent...you'll see it soon enough.  If you draw your opinions on box scores, you are missing A LOT.  Mahomes did have identifiable issues with his footwork, and he did make some glaringly poor throws in college.  It's why he didn't go first overall...he needed some work.  He got work.  .....I can post a ton on this etc...but this is a Bills forum...I understand where I am here....I hope Allen works out for the Bills...I am looking forward to seing how it plays out in time.  Lots of new QB talent coming into the leauge this past coupole seasons...very exciting times.

 

3.  If nothing else....let Peterman or McCaron take the beating for the first 8 games at least.  If you are honest about where the Bills roster is at this time, it isn't that great.  Especially on offense.  Let the kid sit...let the lesser guys take the pounding, and the wrath of the fans and media....then when he does get put into game action later on...the season will long be over, the team and fans will be ready to look at the remaining games to see what Allen can do and how he progresses...instead of looking at him as the guy who is going to save the franchise right now (he isn't ready!)  SIT. SIT. SIT.  Patience....and more paitience.  Keep your shiny toy in the box for a while....

[Aussie Joe]

Let’s wait for Mahomes to do something first...i got nothing against the guy and I’ll be the first to acknowledge if he is a “generational talent” but at the moment I’m thinking that the Chiefs should have taken Watson instead..

 

Like they should have taken Kelly or Marino back in 1983... (ouch)..

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Aussie Joe