A Bone-Chilling Draft Review

[Thurman#1]

"There is something to work with. He isn't Christian Hackenberg."

 

I don't see anything bone-chilling in this whole thing.

 

"When you compare him with the other three or four highest rated QBs in the class he's just behind them in key important areas." Yup, that's why he needs development. That's why he should sit for a while. It's worth noting.

 

Could Beane have made a mistake and picked a bust? Yeah. Could Allen instead be a guy who with changes to his mechanics and time to pick up the pro game without the pressure of starting turn out to be terrific? Yeah, also possible. That's been the word on him since the beginning. He needs development.

 

I do disagree with one thing they're saying, that guys like Rodgers and Brady can make lousy supporting casts look good. Not so much. Every QB needs a good OL. Without one even the Bradys and Rodgerses are going to look bad. Yeah, they can make lower-level receiving corps look good. But Allen, as has been documented, was under consistent pressure and running for his life. Even the best QBs have problems with that kind of situation. It's a universal about the position.

 

 

They were right about Edmunds' run fits, he had a lot of problems in that area, but seems to be football smart and willing and capable of improving. He got better.

 

I thought they were interesting about Harrison Phillips not being Kyle Williams II. I'd bought into that, but they make an excellent point, the styles are quite different.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Thurman#1

[BarleyNY]

Funny thing is that I saw the Bills draft the same way as PFF did.  They made a lot of high risk/high reward picks on talented players who haven’t developed yet (as compared to other college prospects).  They even talked about the tremendous upside potential of the players we picked and, how if they all hit, what an incredible draft it would be.  I’d have taken different players - as the PFF guys would have - but we both can see the potential of the players taken by the Bills.  

[TigerJ]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

PFF is good for advanced metrics and stats but it’s grades are useless because you can’t accurately grade a player if you don’t know the play call,line call, route combinations, and individual jobs on the play

 

too many variables 

I agree.  Buffalo drafted Josh Allen on the basis of his physical attributes, his intelligence, his attitude, and what he has done given his relatively weak background in terms of high school and college experience.  They took a chance on him, knowing he's furthest from being a finished product compaired with all his first round QB peers from the recent draft.  We all know he could bust.  I think McBeane knows he could bust, but the reason they took a chance was because his physical attibutes are off the charts, and because his attitude and intelligence are outstanding.  They are willing to gamble that success will come as he moves up the learning curve.  I'm OK with their gamble. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I agree.  Buffalo drafted Josh Allen on the basis of his physical attributes, his intelligence, his attitude, and what he has done given his relatively weak background in terms of high school and college experience.  They took a chance on him, knowing he's furthest from being a finished product compaired with all his first round QB peers from the recent draft.  We all know he could bust.  I think McBeane knows he could bust, but the reason they took a chance was because his physical attibutes are off the charts, and because his attitude and intelligence are outstanding.  They are willing to gamble that success will come as he moves up the learning curve.  I'm OK with their gamble. 

If he never had a good college season I would be more worried

 

2016 was respectable for him

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, TigerJ said:

I agree.  Buffalo drafted Josh Allen on the basis of his physical attributes, his intelligence, his attitude, and what he has done given his relatively weak background in terms of high school and college experience.  They took a chance on him, knowing he's furthest from being a finished product compaired with all his first round QB peers from the recent draft.  We all know he could bust.  I think McBeane knows he could bust, but the reason they took a chance was because his physical attibutes are off the charts, and because his attitude and intelligence are outstanding.  They are willing to gamble that success will come as he moves up the learning curve.  I'm OK with their gamble. 

 

I wouldn’t even necessarily say that. Being in his pro style offense and working under center over 40% of the time, making line calls and audibles I don’t think he’s as far off as some think... his talent level at Wyoming was horrible 

 

heck we have Sam Darnold fumbling snaps left and right under center lol

 

Allen is not polished but he is definitely further ahead than a lot think 

[TigerJ]

You could well be right, Buffalo, analytics or not.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

You could well be right, Buffalo, analytics or not.

 

Statistically, Allen is not great and people who don’t like him can go to stats and metrics all they want 

 

but when you take the whole situation and then look at The body of his work you see why he is a High first rounder. His athleticism for his size is unreal, coupled with his big arm and smooth release and coaches definitely would like to work with him 

[Paulus]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yep

 

There are some places where their stats are meaningful, but when they try to put individual grades on positions which are strongly interdependent - such as OL or DL - they become quite tenuous. 

And at other positions, such as QB, I think the way they weight different factors (such as lack of interceptions) is a bit out of keeping with the QB's real impact on the game - for example, while I agree with the principle that turnover differential is a huge correlation to wins, so are successful 4Q drives and 2 minute drills. 

 

But could just be me

 

The video was a bit off-putting when they said that those who liked Allen didn't watch any game film like THEY (and those who didn't like him) had. The guys in the video are really trying to up-sell the site to the point of ridiculousness.  

 

PFF and metrics in general are tools, not a true measure of a player/athlete. Especially, a player/athlete involved in a team sport. One game does not a player make, but one game can certainly skew a metric.

[Thurman#1]

They're also saying that guys like Allen can have terrific NFL careers if they follow a path like Newton (the guy who our head coach and GM have history with) and Wentz have.

 

They're saying he can be successful without improving his accuracy. And yet he apparently has improved his accuracy through mechanical improvements with Jordan Palmer. It's a question whether he'll maintain that improvement, but if he does then he should be a better guy than their analysis says he is.

[Your Brown Eye]

Bone chilling is the little girl I bought girl scout cookies from yesterday died 3 years ago.

 

Two schmucks yapping about draft picks is not bone chilling.

[Protocal69]

Here is my take on advanced analytics. They only tell what happened statically in the past not necessary what will happen in the future. For somethings it can predict what will happen with good accuracy. For example if team A  is dead last vs the run and is facing the number one rushing offense in team B guess what? Its a good chance that team B will have a great day rushing the ball, but when to analyzing a QB like Josh Allen what analytics does not do is tell you WHY is his accuracy not up to par. 

 

The BILLS felt like ALLEN issues are footwork related which is correctable and thats why they picked him. These PFF guys just look at the numbers to form their opinion and even  if they do look at the tape, they are letting the numbers form a bias in what they are looking at. In other words they are just looking the film to just confirm the numbers but not explain the numbers and to see if the numbers tell the whole story.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Protocal69

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

 

PFF is good for advanced metrics and stats but it’s grades are useless because you can’t accurately grade a player if you don’t know the play call,line call, route combinations, and individual jobs on the play

 

too many variables 

 

 

You're right. That's why nobody knows which players in the NFL are good. Nobody knows the play calls, line calls, route combinations and individual jobs on plays, so nobody knows which players are any good.

 

PFF is very good. They aren't perfect, of course ... nobody is. And they're better at rating certain positions than others. But they're painstaking, careful and professional. 

 

Many NFL teams buy PFF data to use. They don't do that because PFF suck.

 

But predicting how guys will transition between college and the pros is projection, not simply observing and understanding. Even the NFL teams themselves aren't all that good at it, though they're better than anyone else.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Thurman#1

[John from Riverside]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're right. That's why nobody knows which players in the NFL are good. Nobody knows the play calls, line calls, route combinations and individual jobs on plays, so nobody knows which players are any good.

 

PFF is very good. They aren't perfect, of course ... nobody is. And they're better at rating certain positions than others. But they're painstaking, careful and professional. 

 

Many NFL teams buy PFF data to use. They don't do that because PFF suck.

 

But predicting how guys will transition between college and the pros is projection, not simply observing and understanding. Even the NFL teams themselves aren't all that good at it, though they're better than anyone else.

My question in all this is accountability

 

I kept hearing Hackenberg being brought up like he was some great revelation of these guys and somehow proves they are legit and correct.

 

Do they ever talk about there misses (of which there have been several)

 

As you listen to the whole thing it seems to me that they biult themselves an out just in case Allen hits....I found that amuzing.   They will be front and center talking about how they were the voice of reason if Allen busts but if he hits we wont hear another word about Allen from them.

 

Meanwhile.....the guys that will get fired if Allen busts and are basing their livelyhood on the pick....well....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

You're right. That's why nobody knows which players in the NFL are good. Nobody knows the play calls, line calls, route combinations and individual jobs on plays, so nobody knows which players are any good.

 

PFF is very good. They aren't perfect, of course ... nobody is. And they're better at rating certain positions than others. But they're painstaking, careful and professional. 

 

Many NFL teams buy PFF data to use. They don't do that because PFF suck.

 

But predicting how guys will transition between college and the pros is projection, not simply observing and understanding. Even the NFL teams themselves aren't all that good at it, though they're better than anyone else.

 

 

Is this really true?  Wondering which teams, and how it is known.

[Buffalo716]

28 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're right. That's why nobody knows which players in the NFL are good. Nobody knows the play calls, line calls, route combinations and individual jobs on plays, so nobody knows which players are any good.

 

PFF is very good. They aren't perfect, of course ... nobody is. And they're better at rating certain positions than others. But they're painstaking, careful and professional. 

 

Many NFL teams buy PFF data to use. They don't do that because PFF suck.

 

But predicting how guys will transition between college and the pros is projection, not simply observing and understanding. Even the NFL teams themselves aren't all that good at it, though they're better than anyone else.

 

They are good at collecting data. It can be worth 19 dollars a month to a team. That’s nothing 

 

You don’t need a grade on a player to see if he is good. If you go to games and watch games you can form your own opinions on players. Scouts form their own opinions with their eyes not PFF data

 

yes it’s all about projection

 

though they are good at collecting data. They aren’t perfect talent evaluators by any means

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Is this really true?  Wondering which teams, and how it is known.

 

I’ve heard some teams may have a subscription. But it’s like 20 bucks a month so that’s nothing for an nfl team 

 

they are using it for the metrics and stats they track not player grades 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Buffalo716

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Is this really true?  Wondering which teams, and how it is known.

The Browns hired Jonah Hill's character from Moneyball.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

They are good at collecting data. It can be worth 19 dollars a month to a team. That’s nothing 

 

You don’t need a grade on a player to see if he is good. If you go to games and watch games you can form your own opinions on players. Scouts form their own opinions with their eyes not PFF data

 

though they are good at collecting data. They aren’t perfect talent evaluators by any means

 

 

$19 a month is for people like us. The teams pay a lot more and get a lot more data.

 

Right, PFF aren't perfect talent evaluators. But probably a lot better than all the folks who don't do it for a living and talk about how people pass or don't pass the eye test for them.

 

 

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Is this really true?  Wondering which teams, and how it is known.

 

 

https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics

 

"To be fair, PFF has come a long way since 2013, so much so that it’s now widely used by NFL teams and players. It’s good to see the Bengals are among them. PFF, while not perfect, is easily the best source of advanced analytics that accurately measures a player’s abilities in the NFL. In a 2015 article, Collinsworth told The MMQB 13 NFL teams were using PFF’s team-specific subscription service and in 2016 he said they were up to 24 teams. So, the Bengals are not alone in using PFF for data mining."

 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/6/30/15895074/study-details-how-bengals-advanced-analytics

 

Two of dozens of articles I've seen about it.

 

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

My question in all this is accountability

 

I kept hearing Hackenberg being brought up like he was some great revelation of these guys and somehow proves they are legit and correct.

 

Do they ever talk about there misses (of which there have been several)

 

As you listen to the whole thing it seems to me that they biult themselves an out just in case Allen hits....I found that amuzing.   They will be front and center talking about how they were the voice of reason if Allen busts but if he hits we wont hear another word about Allen from them.

 

Meanwhile.....the guys that will get fired if Allen busts and are basing their livelyhood on the pick....well....

 

 

PFF doesn't pretend to be perfect. Nobody would. They're proud of their methodology, they think people can get a ton of value out of it, and the fact that teams buy their stuff says they're right. But they're upfront about not the fact that they aren't perfect at knowing what will happen.

 

I don't know, it doesn't seem to me they're "building themselves an out." Sounded to me like they weren't sure what was going to happen, though their opinion was not good. Seemed to me they brought up Hackenberg because they are convinced he's never going to make it, but they don't think Allen is as hopeless as they think Hackenberg is. I didn't re-listen or anything but that's what I got from it.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

$19 a month is for people like us. The teams pay a lot more and get a lot more data.

 

Right, PFF aren't perfect talent evaluators. But probably a lot better than all the folks who don't do it for a living and talk about how people pass or don't pass the eye test for them.

 

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics

 

"To be fair, PFF has come a long way since 2013, so much so that it’s now widely used by NFL teams and players. It’s good to see the Bengals are among them. PFF, while not perfect, is easily the best source of advanced analytics that accurately measures a player’s abilities in the NFL. In a 2015 article, Collinsworth told The MMQB 13 NFL teams were using PFF’s team-specific subscription service and in 2016 he said they were up to 24 teams. So, the Bengals are not alone in using PFF for data mining."

 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/6/30/15895074/study-details-how-bengals-advanced-analytics

 

Two of dozens of articles I've seen about it.

 

They definitely have been getting Better but they are hit and miss with some players and their ratings

 

though I guess we are all wrong sometimes. Their purpose is great for hardcore fans. It’s over analyzed stats and metrics. And amateur draft gurus can use it to Track prospects 

 

but ive never met a scout that started the conversation with , so I was checking PFF last night ...

 

but it I hear your argument. They are a sound younger company driven in a technology world

Edited May 29, 2018 by Buffalo716

[Utah John]

At this point, a good draft is one that makes sense.  The Bills selected players to fill needs.  They failed to find a stud WR, someone who can beat the coverage and catch an Allen pass 65 yards downfield.  Other than that, the draft made sense.

 

Contrast this year's picks with, oh, how about drafting CJ Spiller when we already had Fred Jackson.  Or, of course, giving up so much to draft Sammy Watkins when we didn't have a QB to throw it to him.  I'm not saying the results are judged on the performance of the players, because all teams pick guys that don't work out for whatever reason.  I'm saying those picks simply didn't make sense from a structural, strategic perspective.  This year's picks do make sense.

[billsintaiwan]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

PFF is good for advanced metrics and stats but it’s grades are useless because you can’t accurately grade a player if you don’t know the play call,line call, route combinations, and individual jobs on the play

 

too many variables 

it really is a poor man's fangraphs. baseball much easier to analyze due to the lack of the variables you mentioned.

[8-8 Forever?]

well, I think McBeanes killed the draft;     well, there's one more nation heard from ; 4 starters from this draft by this time next year.  that's a good draft

Edited May 29, 2018 by 8-8 Forever?

[Rochesterfan]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Statistically, Allen is not great and people who don’t like him can go to stats and metrics all they want 

 

but when you take the whole situation and then look at The body of his work you see why he is a High first rounder. His athleticism for his size is unreal, coupled with his big arm and smooth release and coaches definitely would like to work with him 

 

 

I think this is right and what I see as hilarious is that this is the exact opposite of TT as Bills QB.  We will see what the future holds.

 

I just find it funny that guys that defended TT had a ton of positive stats to point to and very few negative stats.  He had a good completion percentage and TD to Int rate, but there were times watching him you could just tell he was not going to get it done.

 

Now we have the exact opposite situation- Josh puts up very pedestrian numbers, but when you watch him you can see something special.  

 

Now many posters that were all aboard the numbers of TT are now having to switch to defending Josh Allen based on what you can see and feel, while guys that killed TT because of how he looked are now trying to kill Josh Allen based upon stats.

 

The fan base has done a total 180 and we still have no idea if either model - stats or eye test is better.

[tumaro02]

Garbage in = Garbage out... So what exactly is the difference in % from Watson 38.8 and Allen 37.7 even if you believe their garbage?  1.1%?  Wow that is huuuuugggeeeee! LOL.

[nucci]

Bone chilling?

[TC in St. Louis]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

Bone chilling?

 

Yes.  This is "The Shining" of draft analyses.  I think these two spend all their time memorizing information on every player who ever put on pads so that they can justify their programming.  They hedge every bet.  Bills draft is lousy, but if the players turn out to be good, it's a home run.  

 

If they didn't love Josh Allen, they wouldn't have drafted him.  Tremaine looks like a great pick to me.  I loved that they got Harrison Phillips.  I don't know jack about the rest of them, except the lineman from VTech looks like a great pick.  And I always liked Proehl's dad.  

 

Trust the process, not these two no-nothings.  If they knew what they were talking about they'd be scouts.

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

 

Yes.  This is "The Shining" of draft analyses.  I think these two spend all their time memorizing information on every player who ever put on pads so that they can justify their programming.  They hedge every bet.  Bills draft is lousy, but if the players turn out to be good, it's a home run.  

 

If they didn't love Josh Allen, they wouldn't have drafted him.  Tremaine looks like a great pick to me.  I loved that they got Harrison Phillips.  I don't know jack about the rest of them, except the lineman from VTech looks like a great pick.  And I always liked Proehl's dad.  

 

Trust the process, not these two no-nothings.  If they knew what they were talking about they'd be scouts.

I concur. Bills picked some very good players. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

Bone chilling?

Well...you know its gotta have that LAMP shocking effect

[hondo in seattle]

Does PFF have any kind of track record using analytics on college players to accurately predict NFL performance?

[blacklabel]

On 5/28/2018 at 1:45 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...wasn't it PFF who voted Miller as the 2nd most improved in 2016 which many have torched?......are they reliable or does anybody care?.....

 

Right you are on Miller. They had him ranked near the bottom for his rookie year but lauded his performance in 2016.

 

They are reliable to a degree. They certainly are not the be-all end-all on statistics and analysis. They've gained popularity for the different types of analysis and measuring they've created but I've always taken their stuff with a grain of salt. They can watch all the film they want and identify what they may label a negative play but they have no idea what assignments each player has on any given play. 

 

I don't recall exactly which season it was, but it wasn't too long ago. Aaron Rodgers caught fire in the second half of a game to lead GB to a comeback win. It was agreed by many that Rodgers was the primary reason the Packers won that game. The next day, PFF slapped a negative grade on Rodgers' performance and tried to justify it with a lengthy blog post. To me, it really just came off as them trying to be different for the sake of being different, which really is what a lot of sites/bloggers/analysts/writers do in order to generate interest and clicks. "What's the census opinion here? OK, lemme express the polar opposite of that opinion and call myself an expert." Granted, it's fine to have opposing viewpoints but come up with a better reason for having those viewpoints other than being the guy with the "controversial" take. 

 

Also, this thread title is misleading... my bones are not chilled at all. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by blacklabel

[Rigotz]

On 5/28/2018 at 1:35 PM, GreggTX said:

It seems the folks at PFF don't think very highly of our draft at all. Your response?

 

The Bills review starts at about 2:45 in from the start.

 

 

 

This just in: Josh Allen's stats in college were not that great!

 

Hot take.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Well...you know its gotta have that LAMP shocking effect

The lamp from 'A Christmas Story'?

[BILLS 4 EVER]

you forgot to add the "R" at the end of the first word in your title.  I was getting excited about Allen until you came along.

[transplantbillsfan]

I'm not going to discredit PFF with regard to their evaluation of NFL players. I think they have a generally interesting system as far as that goes. And although that system is not without its flaws, it is evaluating players performance already in the NFL. Like it's here and now. It's not about projecting.

 

It seems like they just tend to use the same system they use in the NFL to evaluate college players, which is incredibly problematic considering drafting college players is entirely about projections. I'm not saying that college play doesn't matter. It does. And I actually have shared the same concerns about Allen based on his college performance as PFF brings up here.

 

If you're going by historical tendencies or college production, Alan will absolutely not have success in the NFL. However, he's also going to be the ultimate test subject of scouting versus Analytics and personally, having really dived deep into his personal background and upbringing and late-blooming physical stature and work ethic and simply watching tons of his college passes and thinking he looks like a natural passer of the football and so on, I think we can throw their college evaluation out the window.

 

They felt almost exactly the same way about the Edmunds pick as they did the Allen pick. 

 

So even they acknowledge (and kinda cover their butts) that the Bills were drafting clearly on potential, which contradicts a little of what Beane said post-draft in his apparent criticism of the media presenting Allen as "raw."

[JESSEFEFFER]

I would maintain that is impossible to isolate a QB's performance from the offense that surrounds him based solely on numbers.  Production numbers always need context.   The most telling is the slip in ypa which is mostly connected to the players that left Wyoming's offense after the 2016 season.  If Allen had a similar year in 2017, I doubt the Bills could have drafted him at #7.   Scouts can attempt to put that in context by film review in conjunction with talking to his coaches.  PFF can't do that.  The numbers say he got "worse" and the context might suggest that he improved.

[Mango]

People have a tendency to discredit data and statistics because they are looking for a binary answer. Yes or no. But that’s not what a deep dive into data really does. The probability of Allen being great with his college numbers is low. Doesn’t mean he won’t be a worthy starting QB. 

[K-9]

On 5/29/2018 at 9:02 AM, nucci said:

Bone chilling?

I keep hearing that guy who used to do the voice overs for horror movie trailers. 

 

“The 2018 Buffalo Bills thought it was just a draft like any other...until it all went wrong. Very...very... wrong. A draft so full of unspeakable horror and blood curdling mayhem, you have to remind yourself, “it’s only a draft, it’s only a draft, it’s only a draft.”

[Stank_Nasty]

so phillips graded out really well on their scale last year but then he's a reach in the draft at the tail end of the third? how exactly are we supposed to value their formula or grades when they don't do it themselves.... something doesn't jive there.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 5/29/2018 at 6:15 AM, 8-8 Forever? said:

well, I think McBeanes killed the draft;     well, there's one more nation heard from ; 4 starters from this draft by this time next year.  that's a good draft

 

Who your 4th? The corner? 

On 5/29/2018 at 9:02 AM, nucci said:

Bone chilling?

 

23 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Well...you know its gotta have that LAMP shocking effect

 

Would you have been as compelled by ‘slighty  skin cooling?’ 

[HOUSE]

It comes down to this...

Who do you trust more, PFF or Brandon Beane?

 A  3rd chair at the table(who receives a cup of coffee) with a completely different view.

 

Example: I like Josh Rosen but he will have trouble with injuries in the NFL, a player on the sidelines is useless.

 

Example: I like Baker Mayfield but his cockiness & overall size was a huge drawback for us....to many batted down passes & locker room confrontations

 

I trust Brandon Beane over PFF, we will see.....

[SoTier]

On 5/28/2018 at 4:57 PM, THE SLAMMER said:

is a collection of highly motivated young players. Brandon Beane prefers work ethic over elite skills. I like it so far

 

 

Y'know, the last time I heard a Bills team described this way was when Jauron had those god-awful boring 7-9 losing groups, and the 2018 Bills resemble those talent-deprived squads far too much for my liking.  Sorry, but motivation, youth, and work ethic are not substitutes for talent, and good coaching can only go so far in making up the talent deficit.  Perennial playoff/Super Bowl contenders aren't that way because they're filled with hard working players with modest talent; they're filled with lots of very talented players on both sides of the ball.

 

On 5/28/2018 at 5:06 PM, THE SLAMMER said:

 

Brandon Beane rarely misses on his later round selections. Some how some way they contribute. The Bills should be in the running for the playoffs again.

The National media is slow to observe how this guy works. He basically drafts farm boys....lol

 

Brandon Beane has proven squat.  He's run exactly 1 draft, and none of those players have played in an NFL game that counts yet.  His trades yielded mostly draft picks.  HIs FA acquisitions have yet to play for the Bills in NFL games that count just like his draft picks.

Edited May 30, 2018 by SoTier