RD1, Pick 7: Josh Allen QB - Wyoming

[Jerome007]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I'm not sure he starts over McCarron right out of the gate, but I think he's more than capable of taking the job at some point during the season.  It really depends on how well AJ plays.

Isn't good that the Bills might have  two decent if not good QB on the rosters? Some people B word and moan all the time. If they both suck during the season, sure, complain. But as of now I'd say it's a step up to times with EJ / Cardale / Joe Webb as backups! And they might actually be really good. Time will tell. All Bills QBs need some better OL & WR teammates though...

[theRalph]

How do we really know how bad our receivers are? It was used as Tyrod’s excuse. But don’t great QBs make their receivers look better?? I’m betting Benjamin, Jones, Holmes, and Streater look better this season with AJ or Josh. And though the pin heads think the roster ends with the draft, the Bills will bring in a name receiver well before camp.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Myth: Josh Allen once wrestled 6 gators at rhe same time...and won.

 

Fact: It was 8 gators and a beaver. He still won.

Edited May 1, 2018 by No Place To Hyde

[Wayne Arnold]

52 minutes ago, theRalph said:

I am completely exasperated with WGR550 and especially Pontiff Schopp and his loyal sidekick Bulldog. Bovada released the over/under for the number of games the fresh class of QBs will start. Allen is at the top at 10.5 games. The Pontiff completely dismisses this - because Allen is the least ready to start in the NFL. This is utter horse-hockey.

 

To wit:

- Allen played in a pro style offense with a lot of power to change plays and call protections. He operated from under center and the shotgun. He was not in a pass-happy spread offense that afforded the many attempts that, say, Mayfield had (Allen 270, Mayfield 440 in 2017).

 

-Allen was under pressure A LOT at Wyoming with a bad O-Line. And yet he won 8 games in both 2016 and 2017.

 

-Though WGR looked under rocks to find draft analysts, many premier observers of the game listed him as the best QB (Prisco, Mayock, Phil Simms for example)

 

-The accuracy question is crap. I watched all his games. He generally put balls right on the receivers unless he was under great pressure or throwing on the run, but sailed balls are few. Watch Wyoming vs. Oregon. There are at least three drops in the first quarter.

 

Josh Allen is not a messy project. And you're likely a Bills' fan, so you want to know the truth. WATCH THE GAMES. Allen is Money and will start 9/9/18, as I have been maintaining on this forum. And Schopp: Decide for yourself rather than listen to the draftniks. Were they truly excellent talent evaluators - they would be in the NFL and not behind a computer.

 

Out.

 

They're right about one thing: Allen isn't ready to start. Because his fundamentals and footwork need so much work.

[BullBuchanan]

He might be the least pro-ready QB prospect ever taken in the first round, based strictly off production and skillset. Watching the games that were shared in another thread, the kid just heaves the ball around hoping someone will get it. I've got to hand it to him, he probably throws the prettiest interceptions of anyone I've ever seen.

 

The fact remains though that's he's pretty much a one-look guy who stares down receivers, loves to throw the ball across his body to the opposite end of the field int he hopes that everything will be fine. It won't be. The kid has a good arm, and escapabililty under pressure. He lacks short and long accuracy, knowledge of what his receivers can and can't do, sound judgement under pressure, and the ability to diagnose a D for maximum YAC. If Al Davis were alive he would've traded the farm to take this kid #1 overall.

Until he proves otherwise, he's JaMarcus Russel with atleticism and a nice wonderlic score.

[GG]

41 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I’m not trying to be lazy or claim that I’m an expert. 

 

I didn’t state Cardale was better,  just asking the group how is Allen better/different than Cardale? 

 

My overarching point/question is? What exactly did Beane and McDermott see in Allen that made them willing to move Glenn, #12, #53, #56? Was it deeper than he’s tall and played in Wyoming before?

 

Admittedly, my opinion of Allen is mostly comprised of “expert” opinion, namely Greg Cosell. I did not watch Wyoming Cowboy games. 

 

 

You base your opinion on the views of a single analyst and didn't watch any film to develop your own opinion, yet don't consider that lazy?

 

Watch film of both Allen and Jones, and you will recognize the differences in their potential.  

[Golden Goat]

What's not a myth: Last year Allen threw to 2 sophomores and a bunch of freshmen.

What's also not a myth: Last year, not one Wyoming RB, WR or TE was a returning starter.

 

These guys on WGR should... Well, it has to do with a finger and rotation.

[theRalph]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

They're right about one thing: Allen isn't ready to start. Because his fundamentals and footwork need so much work.

Why? Because some analytics nerd said so? Because that’s what you’ve been told? Mason Rudolph is a mess. Not Allen. He is a natural thrower and has made great footwork strides even at the Senior Bowl. He completely outplayed Mayfield at the SB.

[Inigo Montoya]

It's hard enough for a young player transitioning to the pros and dealing with being under the media microscope when you become the "Face of the Franchise."  It's even more difficult when the local sports media decides that you are a bust before you have taken a single snap and begin to champion your down fall. 

 

For all the talk of how great the Bill's Mafia is, there are definitely segments of it that have been scarred by the last twenty years and seem to enjoy complaining about how bad the Bills are more than they enjoy cheering them on.  

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Inigo Montoya

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, theRalph said:

Why? Because some analytics nerd said so? Because that’s what you’ve been told? Mason Rudolph is a mess. Not Allen. He is a natural thrower and has made great footwork strides even at the Senior Bowl. He completely outplayed Mayfield at the SB.

 

Because when you watch him play for Wyoming in 2016, his footwork is horrible. He even admitted it throughout the draft process. 

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

They're right about one thing: Allen isn't ready to start. Because his fundamentals and footwork need so much work.

I also think he is not ready to start....and really could benefit from a year of holding a clipboard.

 

That doesnt mean its a bad pick....give him a Mahommes treatment year.

[theRalph]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Until he proves otherwise, he's JaMarcus Russel with atleticism and a nice wonderlic score.

Haters gonna hate. Hate on pal.

[Max Fischer]

I want McCarron and Peterman to really set up their play and hopefully Allen is good enough to beat them for the job. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Nothing to link to, but Josh Allen has deleted that disgusting picture of him in a Brady jersey from his twitter. Let's go!

[theRalph]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:56 PM, Dark said:

Why trade up for Allen?  He's gonna be a bust.

Because professionals who know a lot more than you chose him. Read what you wrote. You don’t know schmit. Go troll the Patriots.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

The more game videos I watch, the more I believe Allen will be good sooner rather than later.

 

Senior Bowl Stats (North)

 

Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT
Josh Allen	9/13	158	12.2	2	0
Tanner Lee	8/19	86	4.5	0	1
Baker Mayfield	3/7	9	1.3	0	0
TEAM	20/39	253	6.5	2	1

 

Rushing

	CAR	YDS	AVG	TD	LONG
Kalen Ballage	10	57	5.7	0	16
Akrum Wadley	8	38	4.8	0	15
Jaylen Samuels	10	37	3.7	0	8
Josh Allen	5	19	3.8	0	12
Dimitri Flowers	1	6	6.0	0	6
Baker Mayfield	1	-4	-4.0	0	0
Tanner Lee	1	-6	-6.0	0	0
TEAM	36	147	4.1	0	16

[theRalph]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:57 PM, jlgarsh said:

Awful.  I feel sick.  Could have got him at 12

Arizona was coming for him. He would never have lasted til 12. You’re....just....wrong. Don’t feel sick. Be happy!

 

[Carter]

30 minutes ago, theRalph said:

Arizona was coming for him. He would never have lasted til 12. You’re....just....wrong. Don’t feel sick. Be happy!

 

Arizona had Rosen rated #1 the entire time. Allen was 5 on their list.  

 

This is just wrong. 

[NickelCity]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Nothing to link to, but Josh Allen has deleted that disgusting picture of him in a Brady jersey from his twitter. Let's go!

 

Good. I'm still steamed about it. Who the !@#$ wears pats* gear?

[billspro]

15 minutes ago, Carter said:

Arizona had Rosen rated #1 the entire time. Allen was 5 on their list.  

 

This is just wrong. 

 

Pretty sure you made that up. 

2 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

The more game videos I watch, the more I believe Allen will be good sooner rather than later.

 

Senior Bowl Stats (North)

 

Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT
Josh Allen	9/13	158	12.2	2	0
Tanner Lee	8/19	86	4.5	0	1
Baker Mayfield	3/7	9	1.3	0	0
TEAM	20/39	253	6.5	2	1

 

Rushing

	CAR	YDS	AVG	TD	LONG
Kalen Ballage	10	57	5.7	0	16
Akrum Wadley	8	38	4.8	0	15
Jaylen Samuels	10	37	3.7	0	8
Josh Allen	5	19	3.8	0	12
Dimitri Flowers	1	6	6.0	0	6
Baker Mayfield	1	-4	-4.0	0	0
Tanner Lee	1	-6	-6.0	0	0
TEAM	36	147	4.1	0	16

 

Mayfield was terrible in the senior bowl game. He has an issue with holding the ball too long. He is going to have to clean that up at the NFL level if he wants to succeed.

 

Allen’s senior bowl was fantastic. I can hardly wait to see what he does with NFL talent in minicamp and training camp.

[nbbillsfan]

7 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Until he proves otherwise, he's JaMarcus Russel with atleticism and a nice wonderlic score.

 

Lol you said that like it’s a bad thing...but Jamarcus with athleticism smarts (and work ethic) could have been a pro bowler..

[BullBuchanan]

45 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

Pretty sure you made that up. 

 

Mayfield was terrible in the senior bowl game. He has an issue with holding the ball too long. He is going to have to clean that up at the NFL level if he wants to succeed.

 

Allen’s senior bowl was fantastic. I can hardly wait to see what he does with NFL talent in minicamp and training camp.

 

The senior bowl is the NCAA Pro Bowl. If that's where you're making your case about a player you're doing it wrong.

[eball]

12 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

Bob Matthews in Richester is a dunce too.

 

He's ancient.  I think his forte is actually horse racing.

 

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

The senior bowl is the NCAA Pro Bowl. If that's where you're making your case about a player you're doing it wrong.

 

That's overstating it quite a bit.  Yes, there is no blitzing, but if you don't think most of these kids are using that game to try and impress NFL scouts you're dead wrong.

Edited May 2, 2018 by eball

[Victory Formation]

5 hours ago, NickelCity said:

 

Good. I'm still steamed about it. Who the !@#$ wears pats* gear?

Probably an aspiring QB who wants to emulate the best to ever play the game. I see a lot of Brady in Allen, it's clear he emulates many aspects of Brady's game. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Nothing to link to, but Josh Allen has deleted that disgusting picture of him in a Brady jersey from his twitter. Let's go!

He's going to need to beat Brady on Monday Night to make up for ever taking the pic in the first place...

[Ralonzo]

14 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What exactly did Beane and McDermott see in Allen that made them willing to move Glenn, #12, #53, #56?

 

Ok this is the third or fourth time you’ve said this and it annoys me. The Bills traded #21 and Glenn for #12. You can say they gave up Glenn, #21, #53, #56. Or you can say #12, #53, #56. You just jumble it to make the trade up look “worse” in your eyes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/30/2018 at 10:27 PM, BuffaloRush said:

How can you possibly find anything when you have a 77 page thread?

 

Search function works for some of us. 

[BuffaloRush]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Search function works for some of us. 

 

Nah it’s a giant mess to try to sitting through nearly a hundred page.  If that’s the case, why don’t we just one giant “Buffalo Bills Discussion” thread with thousands of pages.  Search function works for some of us, right?

 

 

[racketmaster]

7 hours ago, Carter said:

Arizona had Rosen rated #1 the entire time. Allen was 5 on their list.  

 

This is just wrong. 

Reports conflict with this opinion:

 

Chris Simms, a former NFL quarterback and co-host of the Simms & Lefkoe podcast on Bleacher Report, reported Tuesday that the Cardinals were "heartbroken" they didn't land Wyoming QB Josh Allen -- and in fact, the Cardinals and Denver Broncos were prepared to make a trade that would allow that to happen.

But the selection made by the Cleveland Browns with the No. 4 overall pick -- one spot ahead of the Broncos at No. 5 -- threw a wrench into those plans.

"Everything I know is that the No. 5 pick with the Broncos, the trade was in place, and it was with Arizona. And then (defensive end Bradley) Chubb was on the board," Simms said. "The Arizona Cardinals were heartbroken they did not get Josh Allen."

Simms' assertion matches up with a pair of reports from before the draft. In late March, Fox Sports' Joel Klatt reported the Cardinals "absolutely love" Allen. Then, less than a week before the draft, Mike Klis at 9News in Denver reported the Cardinals were one of three teams that had been in touch with the Broncos about making a trade with to Denver in exchange for the No. 5 pick.

 

Adam Shefter on Twitter:

Cardinals wanted QB Patrick Mahomes last year. Wanted QB Kirk Cousins and QB Josh Allen this year. Got QB Josh Rosen, who many consider best thrower in this year’s draft.

6:13 PM - 26 Apr 2018

[BillsFan17]

7 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

The senior bowl is the NCAA Pro Bowl. If that's where you're making your case about a player you're doing it wrong.

Yet the two DBs Buffalo selected had very good senior bowl weeks respectively. Teams do put emphasis on the Senior Bowl.

 

https://twitter.com/ChrisTrapasso/status/991285538236915712?s=20

Edited May 2, 2018 by BillsFan17

[JerseyBills]

10 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

The more game videos I watch, the more I believe Allen will be good sooner rather than later.

 

Senior Bowl Stats (North)

 

Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT
Josh Allen	9/13	158	12.2	2	0
Tanner Lee	8/19	86	4.5	0	1
Baker Mayfield	3/7	9	1.3	0	0
TEAM	20/39	253	6.5	2	1

 

Rushing

	CAR	YDS	AVG	TD	LONG
Kalen Ballage	10	57	5.7	0	16
Akrum Wadley	8	38	4.8	0	15
Jaylen Samuels	10	37	3.7	0	8
Josh Allen	5	19	3.8	0	12
Dimitri Flowers	1	6	6.0	0	6
Baker Mayfield	1	-4	-4.0	0	0
Tanner Lee	1	-6	-6.0	0	0
TEAM	36	147	4.1	0	16

That 2nd half of the Senior Bowl was great , after a rough start . The more I watch and listen to guys who've been around the game their whole lives described him as unbelievable, special,etc . It really gets me thinking we got an absolute steal.

8 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

Reports conflict with this opinion:

 

Chris Simms, a former NFL quarterback and co-host of the Simms & Lefkoe podcast on Bleacher Report, reported Tuesday that the Cardinals were "heartbroken" they didn't land Wyoming QB Josh Allen -- and in fact, the Cardinals and Denver Broncos were prepared to make a trade that would allow that to happen.

But the selection made by the Cleveland Browns with the No. 4 overall pick -- one spot ahead of the Broncos at No. 5 -- threw a wrench into those plans.

"Everything I know is that the No. 5 pick with the Broncos, the trade was in place, and it was with Arizona. And then (defensive end Bradley) Chubb was on the board," Simms said. "The Arizona Cardinals were heartbroken they did not get Josh Allen."

Simms' assertion matches up with a pair of reports from before the draft. In late March, Fox Sports' Joel Klatt reported the Cardinals "absolutely love" Allen. Then, less than a week before the draft, Mike Klis at 9News in Denver reported the Cardinals were one of three teams that had been in touch with the Broncos about making a trade with to Denver in exchange for the No. 5 pick.

 

Adam Shefter on Twitter:

Cardinals wanted QB Patrick Mahomes last year. Wanted QB Kirk Cousins and QB Josh Allen this year. Got QB Josh Rosen, who many consider best thrower in this year’s draft.

6:13 PM - 26 Apr 2018

Many reports claim Cle was pro Allen on one and it created a little rift with the staff. I think we got a steal when it's all said and done

[billspro]

8 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

The senior bowl is the NCAA Pro Bowl. If that's where you're making your case about a player you're doing it wrong.

 

Mayfield had that issue all season. His average time before throwing was over 3 seconds. He won’t have that type of time in the NFL. If he is going to be successful at the NFL level he needs to make quicker decisions.

1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said:

Yet the two DBs Buffalo selected had very good senior bowl weeks respectively. Teams do put emphasis on the Senior Bowl.

 

https://twitter.com/ChrisTrapasso/status/991285538236915712?s=20

 

The senior bowl is useful. It is really nothing like a pro bowl. Everyone is giving 100% effort since they are applying for NFL jobs. The schemes are basic so there is no hiding flaws. You have to go one on one against someone and beat them.

[BillsFan17]

4 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

Mayfield had that issue all season. His average time before throwing was over 3 seconds. He won’t have that type of time in the NFL. If he is going to be successful at the NFL level he needs to make quicker decisions.

 

The senior bowl is useful. It is really nothing like a pro bowl. Everyone is giving 100% effort since they are applying for NFL jobs. The schemes are basic so there is no hiding flaws. You have to go one on one against someone and beat them.

And that's one of the things I liked about Allen's Senior Bowl, despite the defenses being vanilla, some of the throws were dropped in a bucket.

 

Also, you can hear Mayock saying that balls needed to be caught by the likes of Hamilton for instance. Allen's ball placement was on point, the WRs weren't doing him favors in certain situations.

[billspro]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

And that's one of the things I liked about Allen's Senior Bowl, despite the defenses being vanilla, some of the throws were dropped in a bucket.

 

Also, you can hear Mayock saying that balls needed to be caught by the likes of Hamilton for instance. Allen's ball placement was on point, the WRs weren't doing him favors in certain situations.

 

I also think it is important to find WRs with outstanding hands. Allen throws with a lot of velocity. If a WR has drop issues it will happen more often with Allen’s velocity.

[elroy16]

17 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Until he proves otherwise, he's JaMarcus Russel with atleticism and a nice wonderlic score.

 

 

More importantly than athleticism and a nice wonderlic, by all accounts, Allen has the work ethic and desire required to be a successful QB.

 

Do you guys remember the story about the Raiders staff giving Russel a blank DVD which they said had the game plan for the following Sunday on it, the next day they asked him if he watched it and he said yes. Russel's desire to be a good/great NFL QB just wasn't there.

Edited May 2, 2018 by elroy16

[NickelCity]

5 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Probably an aspiring QB who wants to emulate the best to ever play the game. I see a lot of Brady in Allen, it's clear he emulates many aspects of Brady's game. 

 

No excuse to buy and take pictures in that jersey when you're from central California. He also retweeted something about how Bills Mafia has nothing on Gronkowski family gatherings or some such pats* oriented joke. It seems that that he is/was somewhat of a pats* fan, and it's gross. Outside of this, he seems like a good kid. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by NickelCity

[Wayne Arnold]

33 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

No excuse to buy and take pictures in that jersey when you're from central California. He also retweeted something about how Bills Mafia has nothing on Gronkowski family gatherings or some such pats* oriented joke. It seems that that he is/was somewhat of a pats* fan, and it's gross. Outside of this, he seems like a good kid. 

 

You'd think he'd be a 49ers or Raiders fan growing up. Apparently he's one of those annoying bandwagon types. Oh well. As long as he can read defenses, make fast progressions and put the ball on the money where it needs to be...he could still be wearing Brady jerseys for all I care.

[DrDawkinstein]

Brady is from that area. He's arguably the greatest QB of all time. Of course young kid QBs in CA are going to look up to him. I dont fault him for that.

 

But I'm glad he's moving on.

[BillsFan4]

On 4/30/2018 at 10:56 PM, Sky Diver said:

 

Wrong on Wentz. Wrong on Prescott.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016

 

It was stuff like this that (supposedly) made the Browns pass on Carson Wentz. 

 

They hired a supposed analytics guru and he and their GM (at the time) Sashi Brown studied analytics, looked at Wentz's somewhat pedestrian stats and how they declined in his draft year, and came to the conclusion that Carson Wentz would never be a top 15-20 starter in the NFL. So they traded the pick to Philly... 

 

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/03/eagles_can_thank_browns_and_analytics_for_carson_w.html

 

 

http://www.theherdnow.com/radio/the-browns-missed-on-carson-wentz-because-analytics-cant-measure-franchise-qb-traits/

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html

[John from Riverside]

10 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

The senior bowl is the NCAA Pro Bowl. If that's where you're making your case about a player you're doing it wrong.

Your outlook on it is wrong

Dig deeper sir

Josh Allen is NOT J. Russel just because they are both physical specimens and cannon arm

 

I live in Raider country.....know all about the bust.  The guy had NO WORK ETHIC.....was extremely entitled coming out of college....and it got worse when he got to the Raiders.....no diet having, too much partying, no work ethic to continue to try to improve

 

Josh Allen has had doors shut in his face all the way to being drafted by the Bills.....he knows what work ethic is....for christ sake the kid is a FARM BOY.....have you ever moved pipe on a farm?   I have.......Josh knows what it means to work for a living.

 

Two totally different charactors