What (non QB) position would you pick if guaranteed the GOAT?

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Don’t you think when that pass rusher is “double or triple teamed” they’ve had a massive impact on everything else? There are guys running free and/or extra guys in coverage.

Great pass rushers have the single greatest impact of any positional player on defense. 

[Chuck Wagon]

If you are guaranteed health, I go with RB.  A GOAT, guaranteed healthy RB is going to handle 30-40% of your offense and will help you get by with a lot less at QB.  It will likely get you into the playoffs most every year, pair him with a great defense and could be the formula to sneak out a title, ala Ravens.

[Seasons1992]

WR for sure. 

My theory is, if he's the GOAT, someone decent is throwing to him. 

 

Problem solved! Just find the GOAT.

[Bill Murray]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Don’t you think when that pass rusher is “double or triple teamed” they’ve had a massive impact on everything else? There are guys running free and/or extra guys in coverage.

not if the QB can bail and huck up a jump ball to randy moss or megatron...the CB takes that 'bail  out' option away.  

[mannc]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Pass rushing DE, hands down. The second most important thing in football after you've acquired your franchise QB is to be able to get to the opponent's QB, especially if he's a franchise player as well. 

This would be my second choice, after WR.  I see a few problems with choosing the DE.  First, I believe it's less difficult (although not easy) to scheme around a dominant DE and, conversely, I think, from a defensive  perspective, there are a lot of things a good coordinator can do to generate a consistent pass rush without a totally dominant edge rusher.  On the other hand, week after week, game after game, a truly great WR (Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, even AJ Green) opens things up for the entire offense, not just the passing game and I don't think there's really any substitute for that.  I doubt a single edge rusher can have that sort of impact on a game, week in and week out.  Finally, it's a lesser consideration, but I would also guess that the career of a dominant edge rusher is going to be shorter than that of an all-time great WR.   

[ndirish1978]

MLB. They have the most opportunities to change the game on D. They can blitz and sack the QB, they can disrupt passes across the middle, they can completely shut down a running game. 

[GunnerBill]

I know I won't be the majority but I love a left tackle. It probably should be pass rushing edge player though. 

[Mickey]

I'm going to stand up for the long-snapper here. Nothing jiggles my goodies more than a perfect snap to the punter in high winds. But that's me.

[Kirby Jackson]

28 minutes ago, Bill Murray said:

not if the QB can bail and huck up a jump ball to randy moss or megatron...the CB takes that 'bail  out' option away.  

Except because he pass rusher took the double team they have Moss doubled. The pass rusher did that (and forced the QB to deliver the ball early). That’s why they are paid like they are.

[row_33]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Edge Rusher.  The NFL is about getting a franchise QB and getting to the franchise QB.

 

i thought it was all about that for the Lawrence Taylor years as well

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

i thought it was all about that for the Lawrence Taylor years as well

 

If we had a Lawrence Taylor type of rusher....he single handily would improve our defense probably into the top 5. 

That's what you call a difference maker. 

[MDH]

WR. If the guy is considered the greatest WR in history he has to put up monster numbers. If hes putting up monster numbers the passing game is good. If the passing game is good the QB is good.

 

Now, if I was to amswer the question honestly and not just try and figure out how to get a good QB out of the equation, Id go DE (or maybe CB)

Edited April 17, 2018 by MDH

[JoPar_v2]

See this is a nice, fun thread. Need more of these around here. Good job OP.

 

i’d have to go with DE as well.

[whatdrought]

54 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

Just find the GOAT.

 

Will this one do? 

 

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

i know this is kind of off the beaten path but living on the outskirts of "stiller" country I saw a whole lot of polumalu and the difference in the whole defensive unit when he was on the field vs. not on the field..... he's arguably top 3 all time

 

I could really go for a complete game changer like that. making momentum setting/game altering plays at all 3 levels of the defense. having the GOAT at that position really would be an impactful dynamic.

I know it's all opinion based but I would take a Ray Lewis over a Polamalu or Revis anyday of the week.  Most LB'ers life time in the NFL is 2X longer than a secondary player.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Real McCoy

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I know it's all opinion based but I would take a Ray Lewis over a Polamalu or Revis anyday of the week.  Most LB'ers life time in the NFL is 2X longer than a secondary player.

for me its a bit closer than you make it out. but i'd be fine with lewis too.... I had to sit through a lot of steeler ball over the years and I think polamalu had every bit the impact that lewis did on the field.... but you make a great point about longevity and that cant be overlooked. becuz everytime you mention troy, you have to when it with, "when he was on the field". his style of play wasn't conducive to longevity or health in general. haha. he missed stretches of time and ultimately didn't sustain a really long career.

[Buffalo716]

The position of Head Coach 

[Bill from NYC]

Offensive Left Tackle. You are talking about someone better than Orlando Pace.

[BuffaLoko]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Scenario: You can draft the greatest (non QB) player at his position of all-time. Which position do you pick, and why?

 

For me, this is a toss up between DE and LB. I think most offensive positions are too dependent on the work of others, while a Bruce Smith or Lawrence Taylor type player is going to cause pain and misery regardless of what the other guys on defense do. One of my favorite players of all time was Barry Sanders, yet as great as he was once the playoffs came teams could shut him down.

 

When it all comes down to it, I think I would take the greatest LB of all time. It's a lot harder to neutralize him, and if he's the GOAT I can move him all around the defense... Outside, inside, on the line... My DE can be triple blocked or accounted for, although the greats still get theirs. It's a tough call but I go linebacker.

 

Thoughts?

Although the term GOAT makes me run and reply ANY! since someone to be considered GOAT will usually have a huge impact over a team´s result, the way you described it later , regarding nature of a position, makes me vote same than you! LB

Edited April 17, 2018 by BuffaLoko

[mannc]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

MLB. They have the most opportunities to change the game on D. They can blitz and sack the QB, they can disrupt passes across the middle, they can completely shut down a running game. 

Must be why inside LB is the lowest paid position on defense...

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

If you are guaranteed health, I go with RB.  A GOAT, guaranteed healthy RB is going to handle 30-40% of your offense and will help you get by with a lot less at QB.  It will likely get you into the playoffs most every year, pair him with a great defense and could be the formula to sneak out a title, ala Ravens.

 

This.  Yes, it's relatively easy to get a productive RB this day and age...but we're not talking just productive, we're talking GOAT.  Which, at this point, would be something like averaging 1700 yards rushing and 300 receiving per year over a 10 year career.

 

That production can cover a multitude of other sins.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

DE/OLB pass rusher, but the thought of an ultra elusive GOAT RB out there is really appealing. 

 

Ironic post and username, because the Bills had the GOAT RB once. And for all his success and sick stats, OJ only played in ONE playoff game his entire career.

 

I agree on DE/OLB Rusher though.

[TheElectricCompany]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ironic post and username, because the Bills had the GOAT RB once. And for all his success and sick stats, OJ only played in ONE playoff game his entire career.

 

I agree on DE/OLB Rusher though.

I will not pretend I got to see OJ, those were the days before highlight reels were regularly available. 

When talking about pass rushers and RBs, I think we have to boil it down a bit more. 

Bruce, Reggie White, and Derrick Thomas were all different players. Which is best? In this era, I would take a better version of Thomas. 

Same with RBs, would you rather have an elusive back like Sanders, a power back like Campbell, or the speed of Bo Jackson? 

In this era, I would take a better version of Sanders. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Offensive Left Tackle. You are talking about someone better than Orlando Pace.

 

Yep. To me the top 3 are QB, the guy who protects his blindside and the guy you pay to get to the opponents guy. I love top end Left Tackles so that is my answer too. 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

I will not pretend I got to see OJ, those were the days before highlight reels were regularly available. 

When talking about pass rushers and RBs, I think we have to boil it down a bit more. 

Bruce, Reggie White, and Derrick Thomas were all different players. Which is best? In this era, I would take a better version of Thomas. 

Same with RBs, would you rather have an elusive back like Sanders, a power back like Campbell, or Bo's insane speed? 

In this era, I would take a better version of Sanders. 

 

Not to harp on the matter, but much like OJ, the HoF RBs you mentioned did not have a significant impact on their teams' success.

 

Earl and Barry had 6 playoff games each through their entire career. Most were 1-and-done appearances. Bo only 1 playoff game (I get his career was cut short way too soon).

 

Point is, for as well known as great RBs are, they dont do much to affect the team's success. Especially nowadays in a QB-centric league. I'd even argue that one of the biggest issues with the Bills franchise throughout its history is too much focus on RB and not enough on QB.

 

All that said, I'd be happy with any of those DEs!!

Edited April 17, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[purple haze]

DE or LB.

Superior talent in the front 7 

causes numerous issues for

offenses on a consistent basis.

[The Jokeman]

Edge rusher or TE. As a top flight pass rusher like Taylor, Smith, Haley or Miller can be difference makers. Yet as Gronk, Shannon Sharpe, Kellen Williams Sr have shown type flight TEs can be dangerous too.

Edited April 17, 2018 by The Jokeman

[TheFunPolice]

3 hours ago, the skycap said:

No love for Barry Sanders?

 

As I mentioned, he is one of my favorite players of all time. He was amazing when he was on his game.

 

Still, as great as Barry was, the Lions probably would have won just as much with a guy one tier lower... like Emmitt Smith

[Bill Murray]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Except because he pass rusher took the double team they have Moss doubled. The pass rusher did that (and forced the QB to deliver the ball early). That’s why they are paid like they are.

 

fair enough, although i think the highest paid at each position are pretty close to each other, but fair enough

[Tyrod's friend]

4 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Scenario: You can draft the greatest (non QB) player at his position of all-time. Which position do you pick, and why?

 

For me, this is a toss up between DE and LB. I think most offensive positions are too dependent on the work of others, while a Bruce Smith or Lawrence Taylor type player is going to cause pain and misery regardless of what the other guys on defense do. One of my favorite players of all time was Barry Sanders, yet as great as he was once the playoffs came teams could shut him down.

 

When it all comes down to it, I think I would take the greatest LB of all time. It's a lot harder to neutralize him, and if he's the GOAT I can move him all around the defense... Outside, inside, on the line... My DE can be triple blocked or accounted for, although the greats still get theirs. It's a tough call but I go linebacker.

 

Thoughts?

Two good choices. It's almost inconceivable to think of what Barry could have done with a legitimate franchise. LT was the greatest force I ever saw, far better than Bruce. 

But Barry touched the ball 20-30 times a day, and Taylor impacted all 50 plays on offense. 

Taylor.

[TheFunPolice]

If I had to go out a bit more and rank my top 5 (non QB) positions:

 

LB (can move all over the field, and if he's the GOAT he can cover the TE, get to the QB, and stop the run)

DE (as many have said, a Bruce/Reggie type can cause havoc that few others can)

S (a truly great safety makes many defenses click)

K  (a few have said it, but if he's the GOAT he probably hits 60 yarders which makes your scoring range a lot larger)

TE (the GOAT at TE would be better than Gronk, who is already unstoppable and a matchup nightmare)

 

[Boca BIlls]

Ray Lewis LB

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Tyrod's friend said:

Two good choices. It's almost inconceivable to think of what Barry could have done with a legitimate franchise. LT was the greatest force I ever saw, far better than Bruce. 

But Barry touched the ball 20-30 times a day, and Taylor impacted all 50 plays on offense. 

Taylor.

 

If Barry had been on the Cowboys instead of Emmitt... yikes!

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Bill Murray said:

 

fair enough, although i think the highest paid at each position are pretty close to each other, but fair enough

There are 9 pass rushers/defensive linemen that make more than the highest paid corner (and that is before Mack’s extension). There is 1 WR (Evans at 15), 9 DL/edge rushers and the rest QBs in the 21 highest paid contracts (in terms of guarantees). 

[Augie]

Edge rusher. Create havoc and bang the passer around. Make Brady the human piñata. It’s bigger than just winning the game.... 

[Seasons1992]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

Will this one do? 

 

 

As long as he's got good hands and 4.3 speed, I don't care if it's an actual goat at all. In fact, he may be an UPGRADE over the bag of bolts representing us at WR currently.....

[Bill Murray]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There are 9 pass rushers/defensive linemen that make more than the highest paid corner (and that is before Mack’s extension). There is 1 WR (Evans at 15), 9 DL/edge rushers and the rest QBs in the 21 highest paid contracts (in terms of guarantees). 

 

Cool.  I was looking at last years numbers that had Norman at 20mm more than wilkerson at 18mm.  (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2724959-the-highest-paid-nfl-players-heading-into-the-2017-18-season)

 

I guess there is this too (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22836003/nfl-highest-paid-players-every-position-next) which has Normans 3 yr number at 51mm and Von Millers 3yr number at $61mm, which is somewhat in the same ballpark.

 

EItherway the point of my last post was to say you make fair points and concede the conversation, but if you want to beat the dead horse, by all means go for it.  i need to turn my attention to which player we might draft...have you seen any threads on that topic yet?? 

[ndirish1978]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

Must be why inside LB is the lowest paid position on defense...

 

Or perhaps because there are so few amazing MLBs?

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Or perhaps because there are so few amazing MLBs?

Then go ahead and tell me how much the “amazing” MLBs make compared to the top WRs and edge rushers.  Also, I noticed that amazing (and non-amazing) MLBs tend to have short, injury-plagued careers these days.

[K-9]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Edge Rusher.  The NFL is about getting a franchise QB and getting to the franchise QB.

Sorry I didn't see this before I responded to the post. Could have saved some key strokes as your take is EXACTLY what I was getting at.