JM57 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 This whole thread is facepalm city. 0% surprised how quickly it turned into Lamar Jackson = Tyrod Taylor = he's dumb and can't read a defense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 minute ago, JM57 said: This whole thread is facepalm city. 0% surprised how quickly it turned into Lamar Jackson = Tyrod Taylor = he's dumb and can't read a defense. THis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, JM57 said: This whole thread is facepalm city. 0% surprised how quickly it turned into Lamar Jackson = Tyrod Taylor = he's dumb and can't read a defense. I agree. It doesn't even make sense. Lamar Jackson has been making an effort to read defenses, throw from the pocket and keep his eyes down field for almost two years now. Maybe it won't work out, but to say they are alike is just ignorant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: I have read he likes to capitalize on strengths vs weaknesses. More on a week to week basis though, and i hope he does that. However, I can't go off the unknown. McDermott hired a guy originally who wanted a pocket passer under center. I think it's fair to assume that's what he'd prefer. What I'm saying already happened, what you're talking about is something you'd hope would change. Do you want Tyrod back? Or a mobile qb? That is kind of the argument you are making, or are you just making an argument for the sake of it? I do not want Tyrod back, and LJ is not my favorite QB prospect in this draft. After Rosen and Darnold, my favorite is Allen. I’m not trying to make any argument in particular. I’m merely offering an opinion in opposition to posters who are saying that LJ is merely a running QB who can’t read defenses or go through his progressions. Having watched a lot of Jackson over the years, he has made tremendous strides to become a better pocket passer. He is reputed to be an extremely hard working player who is constantly watching film and working to better himself. If Dennison was still OC I would be opposed to drafting LJ. The Daboll hire, however, has me intrigued about what he could do with a QB like LJ. I think he has tremendous upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 We’d only be so lucky for him to fall to us at 21. I’d love to land Rosen, Darnold, Baker or Allen. To get them we have to trade up and I’m cool with trading up. But if McBeane doesn’t pull the trigger, Jackson is the only guy I’m ok with drafting in the first rd. If he’s not there, trade back or stack the front seven/OL. Hes a slecial athlete and from everything I’ve read a really good person as well. Outstanding arm. Outstanding feet. Just needs to be in a system built around him. Daboll could be a good guy for it. I just don’t like the way he talks. Teddy on a one year would be perfect if Jackson falls to us. Problem being, we won’t know if Lamar is going to be available until after we’d have to make a decision on teddy. If this happens. I’ll be ok with it. After watching Tyrod I was really looking forward to legit a pocket passer next. Unless we get one of those top 4 guys, I don’t think any of these other guys are gonna be the answer. I’d rather role the dice on Jackson who has great upside if he can be coached up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 hours ago, PIZ said: I'm very intrigued with Jackson. The guy is electric. However, I am concerned about this: Completion %: 2015….. 54.7 2016..... 56.2 2017..... 59.1 College career average... 57.0 This is where I come down. I like to see 65% or so completion average. Anything below 60 really concerns me. We have enough inaccurate mobile quarterbacks around right now. We need a guy who can actually stay in the pocket and make the damn pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: This is where I come down. I like to see 65% or so completion average. Anything below 60 really concerns me. We have enough inaccurate mobile quarterbacks around right now. We need a guy who can actually stay in the pocket and make the damn pass. Jim Kelly’s NFL career completion % was 60.2. Just sayin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Watch this game against NC State, that's Bradley Chubb at DE who's projected to go top 5 in this years draft, the defense was relentless against Jackson and I saw a completely different Jackson than in 2016, in 16' the first sign of pressure and he would take off, this year and this game he stands tall in the pocket and delivers some really nice "NFL" type throws, don't look at the designed run plays, those plays are designed to be running plays, look at him under pressure , most of the time calm but sometimes shaky and he delivers some really nice strikes, also makes some mistakes but you get to see the good and the bad with him in this game, I'm telling you Lamar Jackson is going to be an impact starter in the NFL, this guy is not just an athlete but has a cannon arm to go along with it, if we have the right coaches this guy can be something special. Just have a look, I know it's one game but it shows alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 If they take Jackson I will be excited, because I trust Beane and McDermott. If they like him, then I'll support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Turk71 said: Is it because he is a mobile qb or because he is black? Are you overwhelmingly stupid or it just other Bills fans? No response... big surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said: Well, it's quite simple and they were in these things they call paragraphs. We use them to separate thoughts. Coaches have shown they won't take advantage of an athletic qb, which is fine. It's a difference in philosophy, how they went about it, I'll disagree with. Buffalo bills fans obsession with the great white hope is a joke, it's flat out wrong. Peterman sucks. I was out at a bar for the playoff game, and people actually cheered when they saw peterman coming in. It's a joke and embarrassing. People are warming up to Alex Smith and he sucks too. He went a whole season without throwing a td pass to a wr. So yea it is a black thing going on with the fan base in my opinion. If you feel offended by that it's probably because their is some truth to it. But yea you're simple. I guess my problem is you characterizing Buffalo Bills fans as being of one mind and having the same opinions. I don't expect much from Peterman or think Tyrod was utilized properly. To call all Bills fans overwhelmingly stupid and bigoted as well is a ridiculous statement, and I wanted to know if you characterized yourself that way. You are a Bills fan after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 As far as drafting a quarterback goes, Mike Martz is loving Logan Woodside. He thinks he'll definitely be playing in the NFL. Not being very familiar with him, what's his projected round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Turk71 said: I guess my problem is you characterizing Buffalo Bills fans as being of one mind and having the same opinions. I don't expect much from Peterman or think Tyrod was utilized properly. To call all Bills fans overwhelmingly stupid and bigoted as well is a ridiculous statement, and I wanted to know if you characterized yourself that way. You are a Bills fan after all. Well this is pretty easy. 1) I'm calling out bills fans for being bigoted, I think it's a reputation they are starting to earn and deservingly so. 2) I'm a bills fan, not a fan of the bills fans. So I feel completely comfortable in myself and don't really worry about others. I know I'm not a racist, but i will say it is something i notice in the fan base. Yet if someone says bills fans are racist I know myself well enough where if they talk to me for 5 minutes they'll know I'm not. The ones who love manziel, defend incognito to no end, call for Peterman and trashed Dareus, Cordy, and Tyrod and Kaepernick . They are the ones who project poorly. If you're upset with me calling out that lot, well then you must be in it. And I'll stand by everything I said. Like I said, I'm a bills fan, not a fan of bills fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, Turk71 said: I guess my problem is you characterizing Buffalo Bills fans as being of one mind and having the same opinions. I don't expect much from Peterman or think Tyrod was utilized properly. To call all Bills fans overwhelmingly stupid and bigoted as well is a ridiculous statement, and I wanted to know if you characterized yourself that way. You are a Bills fan after all. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 No thanks. If he’s lucky enough to get us to the Super Bowl you just know he’s in for a wardrobe malfunction, and no one wants to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Amen! Amen what? I'm guessing you didn't read anything I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Wouldn't hate a shot on Jackson. Agree he has a very high ceiling. I have a low 2nd on him based on his tape - he is my 5th ranked Quarterback. It is certainly possible he goes in the first round. I would hate a trade up for Jackson. I think he is a guy you let come to you. I even think you might be able to execute a little trade back and get him though I am not advocating that. EDIT: just to go further.... I think Rosen, Mayfield and possibly Darnold are the three who could come in and start right off the bat. Rudolph I think would be ready at some point in 2018. Jackson I think like Mahomes this year in KC needs a full red shirt year. So if you go this route it makes the choice of vet bridge critical. Edited January 21, 2018 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Green Lightning said: This is where I come down. I like to see 65% or so completion average. Anything below 60 really concerns me. We have enough inaccurate mobile quarterbacks around right now. We need a guy who can actually stay in the pocket and make the damn pass. I think that Jackson's accuracy has been negatively affected by a lack of skill at WR. He threw a decent amount of passes that were dropped by the receiver. He's definitely not been playing with much talent around him. I believe he will be the first offensive skill player from Louisville drafted since Devante Parker in 2014. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: Watch this game against NC State, that's Bradley Chubb at DE who's projected to go top 5 in this years draft, the defense was relentless against Jackson and I saw a completely different Jackson than in 2016, in 16' the first sign of pressure and he would take off, this year and this game he stands tall in the pocket and delivers some really nice "NFL" type throws, don't look at the designed run plays, those plays are designed to be running plays, look at him under pressure , most of the time calm but sometimes shaky and he delivers some really nice strikes, also makes some mistakes but you get to see the good and the bad with him in this game, I'm telling you Lamar Jackson is going to be an impact starter in the NFL, this guy is not just an athlete but has a cannon arm to go along with it, if we have the right coaches this guy can be something special. Just have a look, I know it's one game but it shows alot. Is that not some of the worst footwork you've ever seen? Not setting, opening his hips too wide, and his spacing is all over the place. No wonder some of his throws are "hitting the medical tent." Dude needs a lot of work and should not be drafted in the 1st, although he most likely will. Why do so many people attribute athleticism and and a strong arm to upside? We should know by now that the QBs with the highest upside are the ones that can distribute the ball accurately to all parts of the field. Pocket control (awareness, movement skills, composure) is a necessity. Mobility is a big plus, but Rodgers, Smith, even Peterman - type mobility is all you need. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: Well this is pretty easy. 1) I'm calling out bills fans for being bigoted, I think it's a reputation they are starting to earn and deservingly so. 2) I'm a bills fan, not a fan of the bills fans. So I feel completely comfortable in myself and don't really worry about others. I know I'm not a racist, but i will say it is something i notice in the fan base. Yet if someone says bills fans are racist I know myself well enough where if they talk to me for 5 minutes they'll know I'm not. The ones who love manziel, defend incognito to no end, call for Peterman and trashed Dareus, Cordy, and Tyrod and Kaepernick . They are the ones who project poorly. If you're upset with me calling out that lot, well then you must be in it. And I'll stand by everything I said. Like I said, I'm a bills fan, not a fan of bills fans. So basically your thought process is “anyone who disagrees with me is a racist.” You’re an idiot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: Jim Kelly’s NFL career completion % was 60.2. Just sayin.... Rules were different then. Defensive backs were not prevented from contacting receivers byond 5 yards downfield and DBs were allowed to be much more violent hitting receivers once they touched the ball. There were no penalties for hitting "defenseless" receivers and intimidation of receivers was a big part of the game. Edited January 21, 2018 by OldTimer1960 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: Well this is pretty easy. 1) I'm calling out bills fans for being bigoted, I think it's a reputation they are starting to earn and deservingly so. 2) I'm a bills fan, not a fan of the bills fans. So I feel completely comfortable in myself and don't really worry about others. I know I'm not a racist, but i will say it is something i notice in the fan base. Yet if someone says bills fans are racist I know myself well enough where if they talk to me for 5 minutes they'll know I'm not. The ones who love manziel, defend incognito to no end, call for Peterman and trashed Dareus, Cordy, and Tyrod and Kaepernick . They are the ones who project poorly. If you're upset with me calling out that lot, well then you must be in it. And I'll stand by everything I said. Like I said, I'm a bills fan, not a fan of bills fans. My dislike for tyrod has to do with him not being very good. Same with kaep. I have no opinion on cordy, other than he's a huge cap hit but injured badly this year, so hopefully he can comeback strong. Incognito is a loudmouth ahole, but he plays hard, and I think the guys on the team generally like him. I was happy to see Peterman get a shot after Tyrod was in a funk, and after that 59 yard passing saints game was a great time to try... Only Peterman said "hold my beer" and proceeded to flop. I hate manziel. You're tampons and generalization of the fan-base is rude and uncalled for. Saying "if you're upset that I called you a racist, well then you must be one" is a$$ backwards and makes no sense. I can be annoyed you called me something I'm not. Going forward with the rest of the QB assessment in not a fan of Jackson. I think he's a much better pocket QB than Tyrod, he is a pretty solid and would be a good cornerstone. The issue is he's a QB who likes to run, and does so quite well. Not only that, but watch his runs, he doesn't protect himself. He's literally going to get killed in the NFL if he runs right into guys, or tries that fancy spin move stuff. He's not very large. He will get crushed running like that. I don't like placing my franchise in the hands of the injury gods. That's why I'm not a fan, in general, of scrambling QBs. 2 hours ago, joesixpack said: So basically your thought process is “anyone who disagrees with me is a racist.” You’re an idiot. Yes. He is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: As far as drafting a quarterback goes, Mike Martz is loving Logan Woodside. He thinks he'll definitely be playing in the NFL. Not being very familiar with him, what's his projected round? As of now, he’s a Day 3 guy. He has a slender build, and isn’t as short as Mayfield but is on the short side. Probably doesn’t have the arm strength you hope for, but it might be enough, and his accuracy is really impressive. In terms of accuracy, I’d say he’s the 3rd best after Mayfield and Kyle Lauletta. Edit: I have Woodside as my #7 QB right now, behind Lamar, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Rosen, and Lauletta. Edited January 21, 2018 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Criticism is fine, to say the offense being 3rd in TD's in his 15 games had nothing to do with him is absurd, and thats what I responded too. People go way out of their to take any and all credit from any success the offense has while TT is QB. Its utterly ridiculous. There is a VERY big difference of pointing out his weaknesses and saying that everything the offense accomplished had nothing to do with him. Thats what I tire of...and thats what my reply was about that you responded to. Tyrod has clear weaknesses, always has. But the naysayers on him grossly exaggerate how "bad" he is and work hard to discredit take away from what he did do positive just to further that opinion. I appreciate your thoughtful and measured response. However, exaggerating a qb's contribution to a team's success or failure is part and parcel of how a qb is viewed on any team. Not just in Buffalo but everywhere else. That's why a qb's makeup is an important attribute when evaluating a player. Without a doubt because of the dignified manner he has handled criticism TT passes on that category. Is Taylor being unfairly criticized by a segment of fans? Who cares whether he is or is not. Again, those disproportionate credit and blame go with the territory. If you are a politician and can't handle criticism, unfair or not, then get out of the business, If you are an actor and can't handle the critics very often off the wall reviews then get out of the business. There is a context for the some of the harsh criticism of Taylor that goes beyond this particular player. It is that this franchise has not had an entrenched franchise qb for almost a quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly. Think about that! So when you observe some unfair criticism of this particular qb understand that part of the criticism as unwarranted as it may be is due to that frustration with the staffing of that position. Edited January 21, 2018 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Putin said: I guess you missed the second half of the championship game I think that Jackson will be drafted MUCH earlier them some you think , and could even be the 4th QB of the board No I saw it,I was referring to Alabama's offense in the other 12 games Hurts started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Decent write up. Did you see anything other than him being able to make NFL caliber throws? Anything that leads you to believe he can understand NFL defenses? Any plays where he processes what the defense is doing and makes the correct adjustment presnap? Beane has a huge advantage over us guys who are just watching game tape. He can talk to each guy and get a better understanding of who has the mental components needed to play the position. Making a case for a guy just because he can make quality throws isn't very convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Wouldn't hate a shot on Jackson. Agree he has a very high ceiling. EDIT: just to go further.... I think Rosen, Mayfield and possibly Darnold are the three who could come in and start right off the bat. Rudolph I think would be ready at some point in 2018. Jackson I think like Mahomes this year in KC needs a full red shirt year. So if you go this route it makes the choice of vet bridge critical. I could deal with Lamar Jackson or even Rudolph at 21. Trading up i would want us to land a top 3 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said: Rules were different then. Defensive backs were not prevented from contacting receivers byond 5 yards downfield and DBs were allowed to be much more violent hitting receivers once they touched the ball. There were no penalties for hitting "defenseless" receivers and intimidation of receivers was a big part of the game. That is an excellent point. It is much easier to have a successful passing game and therefore better stats than it used to be. A 60% passer back then is akin to a 65%+ passer today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Commonsense said: Decent write up. Did you see anything other than him being able to make NFL caliber throws? Anything that leads you to believe he can understand NFL defenses? Any plays where he processes what the defense is doing and makes the correct adjustment presnap? Beane has a huge advantage over us guys who are just watching game tape. He can talk to each guy and get a better understanding of who has the mental components needed to play the position. Making a case for a guy just because he can make quality throws isn't very convincing. He doesn't even make those throws very often. He's a poor passer and will need tons of work. I'm kind of surprised Jackson is considered a first rounder, while Dak Prescott was not. Should be the other way around, but we see this type of blind infatuation every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Jackson just doesn’t scream 10 year franchise QB. More like 3 year wonder dual threat and fades away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBillsForLife Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Nooooooooo thank you. I would rather just keep Tyrod (who I don't want at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 We draft Jackson and I'm taking my 65" and throwing it out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, McBean said: We draft Jackson and I'm taking my 65" and throwing it out the window. Will you have a parachute with you or not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 4 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: Rules were different then. Defensive backs were not prevented from contacting receivers byond 5 yards downfield and DBs were allowed to be much more violent hitting receivers once they touched the ball. There were no penalties for hitting "defenseless" receivers and intimidation of receivers was a big part of the game. Fair point. But I would contend that all stats need to be considered in context. Something to note is that LJ’s pass completion % increased by 2-3 point per season. This in spite of a pourous offensive line, a real lack of talent around him, and a ton of drops. I wonder what his adjusted comp % would be if you took out the drops. My opinion is that I think that LJ has become a better and more accurate passer than his comp % reflects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, McBean said: We draft Jackson and I'm taking my 65" and throwing it out the window. I'll take it as a donation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 If he can learn how to catch consistently I think he'd make a FABULOUS NFL receiver... Speedy... Elusive... I really don't see NFL QB decision-making as part of his repertoire. Plus, with the offensive staff in upheaval, it wouldn't be fair to the kid... We need to stop making EJ Manuels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Cover1 is breaking down Jackson through a series of tweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 It's not something I normally give priority to when watching a QB but his chane of direction skills, especially his ability to accelerate while changing direction, are special. It raises the concern that utilizing those skills increases the risk of winding up on IR, but as long as he's on the field the offense wouldn't be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Cover1 is breaking down Jackson through a series of tweets. Impossible. He is a run first QB who can’t read a defense or go through his progressions. Tyrod 2.0, amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 The way I look at Jackson is that he's got 1st rd talent but he might not be a 1st rd passer based on completion percentage. That's not to say he cannot become a 1st rd passer that's why you have more than one rd in the draft and that's why you give a player like him time to improve. Same thing with Allen. I'm not for sure what all the fuss is. I just think people are overly hard on these guys sometimes. If you don't think Jackson is a 1st rd QB then don't take him in the first round. But just be clear that there are several other guys that are also not 1st rd QB's based on completion %. So don't take them in the first. Doesn't mean they won't or will make it in the league. All it means is they need to be given some room to see what happens. I wouldn't be opposed to Jackson. I'd see how far he slides. If he's a round 2 guy take him in rd 2. Give him some room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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