What we've learned about McDermott & Beane from this season

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Dr. K said:

1.  I am not sure I believe #6 above. Either he plays some favorites or else his judgment of who is performing best is not the same as mine. There are several examples but one clear example is Tolbert. This suggests to me that he may not be the best evaluator of talent. Maybe Beane is equally guilty here, though I think Beane is not doing anything McDermott doesn't want. (I am one of the fans who did not like the fire sale of players that went on in the off season, or the abandonment of Dareus).

 

 

Agreed, his judgement is different than your's and most others here.  And it's very obvious that people who post on message boards in their spare time is far superior to that of coaches who practically live with these guys 24/7!

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Who has a real QB with talented players around him.

 

McD should win coach of the year with the bums we have on this team.

 

Once we get a QB, WRs, O-LINE, TE and a DT we will be crushing it.

 

 

I agree with this.  I think he has proven to be smart, intense, serious, dedicated, fair and team oriented. He is far better than any of the coaches we have had in quite a while.  

 

I agree with most of the OP but am less concerned with some of the potential shortfalls listed.  When our talent increases I think a lot of that will go away.  The Tolbert thing is weird.  He is awful.

 

I can't help but think things are looking up.

[klos63]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I agree with this.  I think he has proven to be smart, intense, serious, dedicated, fair and team oriented. He is far better than any of the coaches we have had in quite a while.  

 

I agree with most of the OP but am less concerned with some of the potential shortfalls listed.  When our talent increases I think a lot of that will go away.  The Tolbert thing is weird.  He is awful.

 

I can't help but think things are looking up.

I think the most significant strength he has brought to this team was eliminating key mistakes. We usually win the turnover battle, we don't take a lot of penalties and we seem to keep our heads on straight during the game. That probably accounts for a couple of wins on those close ones we had a habit of losing before.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 minutes ago, klos63 said:

What makes prognosticators more knowledgeable than any of us?.

 

Because the do it for a living and 95% of the posters here don't

 

And coaches and front office folks know 95% more than the prognosticators too.

[klos63]

Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Because the do it for a living and 95% of the posters here don't

 

And coaches and front office folks know 95% more than the prognosticators too.

Curious as to how many picked the Rams and Saints to have the years they had. How many picked the Raiders to go far.... , they guess just like anyone else and they are often wrong.

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

jesus christ MAJ, give it a rest will you. You know a lot about the game, but your obsession and repetitive posts about TT are getting old, we understand how you feel about him, you've made your point clear.

If you can't admit to giving someone his first start that ends up with 5 first half INT's didn't work, you are blind.

 

Your repetitive put downs of Peterman are equally tiresome, indeed more so since they rely on an infinitesimally smaller sample size. So a raw rookie who got no help from his O-line got blown out in his first start against a quality opponent who was a bad matchup to begin with. One bad start does not a career make. 

Now tell me your post was really all about a coaching error, and given your "body of work" I'll call you a liar. 

You better hope that Peterman never amounts to anything. You may need a new handle.

[klos63]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Your repetitive put downs of Peterman are equally tiresome, indeed more so since they rely on an infinitesimally smaller sample size. So a raw rookie who got no help from his O-line got blown out in his first start against a quality opponent who was a bad matchup to begin with. One bad start does not a career make. 

Now tell me your post was really all about a coaching error, and given your "body of work" I'll call you a liar. 

You better hope that Peterman never amounts to anything. You may need a new handle.

since i said it was a mistake by McDermott to start Peterman, I will call it a coaching error... again. I really don't care what you call me. Get some reading comprehension if you have an issue with my posts.

I never said one bad start makes a career. Don't put words in my mouth.

I agree with you that he was a raw rookie with a bad matchup, which makes for a questionable coaching decision.

Not sure why I would need a new handle if Peterman turns out ok, but most of your post was off anyway.

[starrymessenger]

3 minutes ago, klos63 said:

since i said it was a mistake by McDermott to start Peterman, I will call it a coaching error... again. I really don't care what you call me. Get some reading comprehension if you have an issue with my posts.

I never said one bad start makes a career. Don't put words in my mouth.

I agree with you that he was a raw rookie with a bad matchup, which makes for a questionable coaching decision.

Not sure why I would need a new handle if Peterman turns out ok, but most of your post was off anyway.

 

Oh ok, my bad. Maybe I was confusing you with that idiot "PetermanThrewFivePicks". What a label lol.

[klos63]

3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Oh ok, my bad. Maybe I was confusing you with that idiot "PetermanThrewFivePicks". What a label lol.

I agree that's a ridiculous handle too. It should be 'mcdermottnevershouldhavestartedpetermanagainstSD"  LOL

[Flip Johnson]

4 hours ago, Foreigner said:

He may get along by his coaching, but all the personnel decisions made this year have been

so bad. And even though Beane is GM don't think for one second that McDermott didn't

have his fingerprints over everything that goes on.

Who do you think is calling the shots, Pegula, Brandon? Please, they have as much knowledge

running a football team, as they do a hockey team.    

 

"All the personnel decisions made this year have been so bad."

 

Hard to know where to start, but let's try Micah Hyde the pro bowl safety? Or Jordan Poyer who had a pick-6 yesterday? Or Tre White the potential DROY? Or really just the entire secondary?

 

[Magox]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

I asked which players are playing about their talent level, the front 7? tolbert? Zay? Ducasse, Mills?

 

What makes prognosticators more knowledgeable than any of us? I said we should be in the playoffs just because we don't have Rex anymore.

 

You asked what "players" and I spoke about a team as a collective.  That's the problem with too many fans, they view things from too narrow of a prism.   I'm talking about team football.

[Elite Poster]

Our personnel decisions haven't been amazing.

 

Every single player we traded is on a division winner. If they didn't have the so-called DNA for a team that's likely missing the playoffs, why do they for these other teams? 

 

Pretty aggravating watching Darby with a game ending pick 6 while we still have no answer for who can step up when Gaines is not available, which is all the freaking time.  

 

Post review: Not a pick 6, but likely will end the game. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Elite Poster

[klos63]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

You asked what "players" and I spoke about a team as a collective.  That's the problem with too many fans, they view things from too narrow of a prism.   I'm talking about team football.

ok, how is the team playing above their talent level? Giving 110%?  I'll say the problem with some fans is they use cliches and have no way to backup their claim. Playing above their talent level means they play better than their talent allows them to. That's not possible, it's a cliche. It's meaningless. If you mean to say, he's getting the most out of his players, that may be true.

 

[ganesh]

Some  of the additional plus:

    -  Keeping our Home Field -  We went 6-2 with losses to New Orleans and New England. Last year we had home losses to crappy teams.

    -  Competing hard on the road -  We have been very competitive on the road except for the Chargers blow out. The NE one was a lot closer.  We won in tough places like Atlanta and Kansas City. 

 

I am not sure the minus's you point out are really tough ones.

 

1.  Playing Tolbert because we  did not have a backup. When Cadet was in the game, he was getting the carries, not Tolbert.  They need more depth at RB. 

2.  Actually, he has been a pretty good game manager than Rex.  No stupid time outs. 

3. He is conservative because of the talent level that he has.  That is smart. 

[Andy1]

I am happy with him as coach. He is young and hungry. He is the best we have had since Marv or Wade. Yes, he is learning on the job but people who know the NFL all seem to speak highly of him. The two things this team needs is a solid QB and stability in the coaching and management positions. Finding a solid QB is one of the most difficult thing to do in pro sports. Give him time. I believe he will find one. 

 

Constant turnover every 3 or 4 years is not going to lead to success. Personally, I think we have to prepare now to be ready for the decline of Brady. As long as Brady is performing well, we will have a tough time succeeding the way the NFL officiates games, regardless of our coach or QB. But someday, in the next few years, he will be injured or we will see his decline and we should be ready then with a solid QB and experienced coach. In the mean time, we shouldn't be firing good coaches just because they don't win the division. 

[Klaista2k]

They suck.

 

I mean they signed Tolbert for Christ's sake.

 

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

As Pegula I think I would give my coach 3 full seasons to make the playoffs . They get one year extra on their contract for making the playoffs, two years for winning a playoff game, 3 years for making the Super Bowl and 5 years for winning one. 

 

To to your point OP. McDermott has things to learn and I believe he will. He seems willing to learn and adapt. He also seems to have the right relationship with the GM.

Edited December 26, 2017 by atlbillsfan1975

[jr1]

is only drafting seniors a fluke of 2017 or official policy going forward?

[billsfan714]

Not much discussion about Beane with his name in the title.    The man hasnt conducted one draft yet.   Seems pretty clear he wants more picks and more cap room flexibility.  Seems to be the anti-Whaley.     That will always sound good to me.   You gotta give the man a few years to show what he can do.

[Mike in Horseheads]

Going to take some help but they can take a team most expected to win 4-6 games to the playoffs AND they are flush with draft picks. I give them a B+

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

Our personnel decisions haven't been amazing.

 

Every single player we traded is on a division winner. If they didn't have the so-called DNA for a team that's likely missing the playoffs, why do they for these other teams? 

 

Pretty aggravating watching Darby with a game ending pick 6 while we still have no answer for who can step up when Gaines is not available, which is all the freaking time.  

 

Post review: Not a pick 6, but likely will end the game. 

 

You're an idiot if you think the former bills are the reason those teams are going to the playoffs.

 

Hell, darby didn't even play most of the year.

 

[8-8 Forever?]

12 hours ago, yungmack said:

So is McVay...

McVay inherited a team that, frankly, was really good last year.   With this year's Goff/McVay, they kill the Bills last year.   You could see this year's Rams coming a mile away.  

[bobobonators]

Whats the negative about? Wasnt this team primed to go 4-12 this season. Weren’t we tanking???

 

[LABILLBACKER]

I think he'll slowly improve but without a qb and quality OC, it's all moot.

[aristocrat]

secondary very good with very nice aquisitions. Now need to get the qb, couple lb's, dt, cb, rb, small slot wr.  get me cousins, lb and dt with tre white level talent in the first, another lb and rb in the second, slot wr in the 3rd. free agent cb

[Wayne Arnold]

https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/945335313555181569

[C.Biscuit97]

12 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

McVay has a first overall QB surrounded by years of high draft picks...

Who was worse than EJ Manuel as a rookie and then we handed them a former #4 overall wr and Woods.

 

SM is a dime a dozen coach. Nothing special,  nothing terrible. That said, I think he could be successful here but he has way too much power for his coaching ability.  Obviously I can't prove it, but I believe the Bills are easily in the playoffs with Sammy and Dareus.  this was a garbage conference and the Bills had a great chance to make the playoffs.  

39 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Whats the negative about? Wasnt this team primed to go 4-12 this season. Weren’t we tanking???

 

You're along to adjust your views when you watch the season play out. The AFC was a tire fire this year. It was complete garbage. The Raiders looked to be SB contenders. The Broncos could be playoff contenders with a decent qb.  The Ravens are going to make the playoffs with god awful qb play. The Titans have a shot and their qb has thrown more ints than tds. Miami had to play crappy Jay Cutler. The Chiefs had a 5 game losing streak.

 

we aren't going to see an AFC this bad for a long time.

[Roundybout]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who was worse than EJ Manuel as a rookie and then we handed them a former #4 overall wr and Woods.

 

 

 

Sammy and Woods are taking a back seat to Kupp, Gurley and Austin. I think Goff was so bad because Fisher was one of the worst coaches in the entire league. Like I said, they have so much talent, they just needed a coach to put it all together. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Sammy and Woods are taking a back seat to Kupp, Gurley and Austin. I think Goff was so bad because Fisher was one of the worst coaches in the entire league. Like I said, they have so much talent, they just needed a coach to put it all together. 

Sammy I s the reason Woods and Kupp get so open and the reason Gurley has a lot more room to run.

 

julio Jones doesn't need to have 150 yards every game to have an impact on games. Getting Sammy was huge for the Rams.

[Teddy KGB]

37 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Sammy and Woods are taking a back seat to Kupp, Gurley and Austin. I think Goff was so bad because Fisher was one of the worst coaches in the entire league. Like I said, they have so much talent, they just needed a coach to put it all together. 

 

When did Austin get in front of Sammy/Woods ? 

 

You took it too far.     He has 10 catches this season. 

 

Kupp is open because of Sammy, Gurley, and Woods as well.  

Edited December 26, 2017 by Teddy KGB

[FearLess Price]

12 hours ago, Magox said:

The team is playing above their talent level.

 

The collection of players we have right now should be a 4-12 to 6-10 team.   All the prognosticators thought that's where we'd be and that was even before we had traded the all-world decoy Sammy Watkins, underperformer Dareus and the legendary JAG in our back up running back Williams.

 

 

 

Lol at all world decoy

[Elite Poster]

4 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

You're an idiot if you think the former bills are the reason those teams are going to the playoffs.

 

Hell, darby didn't even play most of the year.

 

 

I'm an idiot? Your reading comprehension is at a 4th grade level buddy. 

 

Try again sweetie. Don't twist my words.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Elite Poster

[Bob in STL]

Solid first year for McD.  The team is prepared and focused.  The performance on field is usually good considering these factors:

1.  No down field passing threat with Tyrod

2.  Right side of OL is poor 

3.  Very limited talent at wr

4.  No back up RB

5.  Defensive Front seven play versus run is very poor

6. No pass rush 

 

Some game day on field decisions were  questionable no doubt, you can say that for most coaches.   

 

Overall B+.  The overall team has played better than the individual talent would indicate.   

 

Trading Dareus iat mid season and not securing a solid backup for McCoy are the biggest errors by McD and Beane so far.  

[Manther]

16 hours ago, klos63 said:

Starting Peterman was a huge mistake. You only get one of those.

You only get one mistake?

 

Firstly, I don't think it was a mistake.

 

Secondly, if anyone in any job or team could make one mistake they would be scared to make them.  You need to make mistakes to learn from.  That's how you get good!  

15 hours ago, Sweats said:

You know what i've learned?...........our HC and GM are learning as they go.

 

Isn't that exactly what we're looking for from a professional franchise when determining player management?

 

Aye Carumba

One of many things I like about McD is that I believe he IS learning and will get better.  Some other coaches don't have those abilities.  I think it is a positive.  He does the work, studying, self reflection and tries to learn and get better.  

[klos63]

16 minutes ago, Manther said:

You only get one mistake?

 

Firstly, I don't think it was a mistake.

 

Secondly, if anyone in any job or team could make one mistake they would be scared to make them.  You need to make mistakes to learn from.  That's how you get good!  

One of many things I like about McD is that I believe he IS learning and will get better.  Some other coaches don't have those abilities.  I think it is a positive.  He does the work, studying, self reflection and tries to learn and get better.  

You only get one 'huge' mistake like that. IMO

[billsfan89]

17 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

I think the "McJauron" nonsense stems from the simple fact that he is a rookie coach. 

 

His defense is soft at times and plays bend don't break. But other than the 2 times they played the Pats* (Which considering the Pats* offense isn't the worst strategy) I don't think the defense was aggressively bend don't break. They played aggressively and executed well a lot of games, and the games they played poorly stemmed from the team just playing bad, not necessarily a bad strategy

 

Game management is one thing I honestly think he can improve upon with more experience and a full evaluation of his season. There are coaches like Andy Reid that never improved but it seems like there are some that do improve. 

Management is one thing I honestly think he can improve upon with more experience and a full evaluation of his season. I also think dumping the Offensive Coordinator is a must. The play calling and design of the offense is terrible. Tyrod might not be a franchise guy but he honestly can perform better than he has. 

 

Overall I am more optimistic about McD than I have any Bills coach in recent memory. If he learns from his rookie year and they make the right personnel moves in the off-season I don't think 10 or more wins is unrealistic esp given the load of draft choices they are working with. 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

17 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

He's not perfect. Clean house.

Gotta love the drama!

[Manther]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

You only get one 'huge' mistake like that. IMO

Agree to disagree!

[MAJBobby]

On 12/25/2017 at 7:50 PM, klos63 said:

jesus christ MAJ, give it a rest will you. You know a lot about the game, but your obsession and repetitive posts about TT are getting old, we understand how you feel about him, you've made your point clear.

If you can't admit to giving someone his first start that ends up with 5 first half INT's didn't work, you are blind.

 

It didnt work sure. But it wasnt a mistake and it was very easy to see why he tried it. And it doesnt matter anyway who was QB they were not winning that game. 

 

Also that game is not the reason they will miss the playoffs. 

[Paul Costa]

10 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Solid first year for McD.  The team is prepared and focused.  The performance on field is usually good considering these factors:

1.  No down field passing threat with Tyrod

2.  Right side of OL is poor 

3.  Very limited talent at wr

4.  No back up RB

5.  Defensive Front seven play versus run is very poor

6. No pass rush 

 

Some game day on field decisions were  questionable no doubt, you can say that for most coaches.   

 

Overall B+.  The overall team has played better than the individual talent would indicate.   

 

Trading Dareus iat mid season and not securing a solid backup for McCoy are the biggest errors by McD and Beane so far.  

Dareus was a cancer in the coaching staffs eyes . They gave him away for next to nothing to move that bloated piece of garbage. Cadet in my estimation was a solid mid season pickup. Obviously he got hurt this week and is lost for the remainder of the season. My only criticism was trading Ragland for a 4th next year. Thought we should keep him hoping for development.