It was a TANK season all along - - get it !!!

[Punt75]

Figure it out! 70% of the players on the current roster are new to the Bills. 70%! Imagine a company firing 70% of its employees and starting over.

And, these new players aren't big-time stars. They came cheap. Humber was a S/T's player most of his career. E.J. Gaines was a 6th round pick 4 years ago. Shareece Wright shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Jordan Poyer was a 7th round pick by the Eagles and then played four years with the Browns before they cut him loose. Ryan Davis & Lorenzo Alexander wouldn't play for many other NFL teams.

The Coaches & Management knew this. The FANS realized it to. For some crazy reason we got off to a wonderful start in the season. One reason was turn-overs. They came our way in bunches. Any long time fan knows that all evens out.

Tyrod was shaky last year. He looked better with all those turn-overs by the defense this year. We all hoped for a miracle season but real NFL football caught up with us!

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Punt75

[The Frankish Reich]

I can't really disagree with this.  About the only thing that suggested they weren't tanking was the re-signing of Tyrod. That started to look like an extremely weird decision as soon as the Watkins/Darby trade happened. You're right about the unexpected quick start delaying the inevitable. It's almost as if McD is annoyed by that. Sometimes that happens when you bring in hungry players while more talented teams are still figuring things out in September and October ...

[row_33]

A new regime will take three years to get things in line with the coaching system, if they are fortunate.

 

I do not understand how fans think you can hopscotch on the wings of angels to a credible playoff team in 6 weeks, especially when you are stuck with the Pats for two losses each season and a wildcard as the only playoff hope.

 

 

[Dadonkadonk]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

A new regime will take three years to get things in line with the coaching system, if they are fortunate.

 

I do not understand how fans think you can hopscotch on the wings of angels to a credible playoff team in 6 weeks, especially when you are stuck with the Pats for two losses each season and a wildcard as the only playoff hope.

 

 

Because the offense was good enough to make the playoffs last year with an average defense.  All McDermott had to do was rebuild a defense into average.  Instead he has destroyed a top 10 scoring offense and #1 rushing offense.  His defense created turnovers in bunches, but now can not stop the run and has never been able to get consistent pressure on the QB.

[yungmack]

4 hours ago, row_33 said:

A new regime will take three years to get things in line with the coaching system, if they are fortunate.

 

I do not understand how fans think you can hopscotch on the wings of angels to a credible playoff team in 6 weeks, especially when you are stuck with the Pats for two losses each season and a wildcard as the only playoff hope.

 

 

More like five years I think.

[KW95 - JA17]

This was my thread from right after the Saints game.

 

Good evening Folks,

 

In the Offseason and Preseason, everyone knew we were not going to be competitive this year.  We were supposed to fight with the Jets for last place in the division after the week 1 confrontation. It was the second week that was going to dictate the season. The Bills lost Watkins, Darby, Gilmore, Graham, Woods, Goodwin, Kouandjo, etc... As a matter of fact most of the players on this team were gone because the new coach and GM wanted to build their own team and be successful in the next few years. They wanted to put their own identity on the team.

 

However something mysterious happened.  The Bills got to 5-2 and almost beat Carolina on the road and of course lost to the Bengals in a typical "trap" game.  The Bills also beat Denver early in the year and Oakland at home in a game that made us look like contenders.

 

 In all of this success, talks of losing Dareus and Glenn were growing and sure enough Dareus got traded for a 6th. These are all moves that I don't mind but the Bills record didn't combine with the activities of the new administration.  The Coach went on to brag about how players shared personal stories and how "next man up attitude" was able to take care of business.  Even KW had a very emotional post game speech that seemed to show how close the team was.

 

Well, here are the Bills at 5-4 and for me the obvious thing happened:  It was always meant to be a tank year but the administration got caught off guard with early success and didn't know how to handle it.  Taylor was never meant to be successful and next year the administration was supposed to be picking in the top 5 with a boatload of other draft picks.  

 

Think about it:  Tyrod was never a Beane/Mcdermott pick.  They inherited him, got rid of all the Stank from prior admin and were expecting a bad year.  Instead they got a great start and had to put a strong front saying they were thinking about winning now.  If that was the case, why trade Dareus ( a player I really don't care for ) for a 6th round draft pick.  That makes no sense.  

 

I conclude this thread by saying:  Sean Mcdermott is saying that Taylor is his starting QB.  Guess what, he won't say otherwise but doesn't believe it.   Its about the future and I believe he knows full well Tyrod is gone in 2018.

 

Sadly for us its been 17 years, but for him its been 9 games.  He is thinking about the future knowing full well that Taylor playing bad is good for his success.

 

 

Cheers to all

 

 

KW95

Edited November 18, 2017 by KW95

[THEHARDTRUTH]

I guess the only question I have is why bench a lousy qb and take a chance on Peterman being better if your really tanking. Seriously. Peterman is gonna have to take sucking to a whole new level to eclipse that 56 yard gem Tyrod had last week. If you really want to tank keep Tyrod out there. The geniuses in the media would have never grown suspicious of your true intent. They mostly think its a huge mistake benching Tyrod.

[ALF]

It's more of a evaluation season to see who fits. 

 

See if Peterman has potential to be a starter before the next draft.

 

It will take more then 1 more draft to fit these new schemes. It will be difficult to find OL men to fit Castillo's  scheme.

[Pirate Angel]

4 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Because the offense was good enough to make the playoffs last year with an average defense.  All McDermott had to do was rebuild a defense into average.  Instead he has destroyed a top 10 scoring offense and #1 rushing offense.  His defense created turnovers in bunches, but now can not stop the run and has never been able to get consistent pressure on the QB.

They are trying to build a team that is continually capable of advancing in the playoffs, instead of making a patchwork team in hopes of squeezing in a wild card birth only to get sent home and return to mediocre the next year

[machine gun kelly]

14 minutes ago, BILLriant said:

They are trying to build a team that is continually capable of advancing in the playoffs, instead of making a patchwork team in hopes of squeezing in a wild card birth only to get sent home and return to mediocre the next year

 

I agree they were trying to build for long term. Success.

 

Dont forget Darby and Gillmore were meant for man coverage, not zone, Watkins i think only played one full season, and chronically injured.  Dareus is a hot mess.

 

I dont disagree we will be very lucky to make the playoffs.  I still believe in this staff.

[Bangarang]

Where someone was drafted is completely irrelevant and such a horrible point to make.

[Pbomb]

What happens if we tank and still make the playoffs

[McNubbins]

4 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

What happens if we tank and still make the playoffs

Win now and in the future!  Trust the process!

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, row_33 said:

A new regime will take three years to get things in line with the coaching system, if they are fortunate.

 

I do not understand how fans think you can hopscotch on the wings of angels to a credible playoff team in 6 weeks, especially when you are stuck with the Pats for two losses each season and a wildcard as the only playoff hope.

 

 

3 years if they are lucky is crazy talk. If you need 3+ years to get the roster built to your scheme you need a new scheme. The only thing that’s allowed to take 3 years is getting the right qb, and if you don’t have one you definitely have to try sooner than 3 years 

[Nick the Greek]

We win a few the tank is off. We lose a couple, the tanks back on.

 

oh bipolar TBD message boards, don’t ever change. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

if it was a tank they would be 1-8 or at most 2-7 at this point and not win another game.

 

 

I'm hoping they win this next game to silence this stupid tank talk.

[Lfod]

 Good points. They made a bunch of moves shifted themselves to have more ammunition in the draft while trying to keep a semblance of winning now. They actually did well and 5-2 was a reality and everyone loved it. A few moves they have been bold in my opinion and could backfire and possibly have already but I still respect the choices.

 

If you like the new coach and general manager, and I do a lot. Then you understand they did pretty well with what they had. Short term pain for long term gain. I can understand people being upset having the hopes of breaking the drought dangled in front of them.

 

I think I'll just keep an open mind and see overall how a lot of the choices they made pan out into next year. I would like the team to win on Sunday and at least the shift and QB will make it entertaining. 

 

I like this new front office. Good or bad they are making moves. It tells me that they will keep changing to be better.

[mjpbills]

9 hours ago, Punt75 said:

Figure it out! 70% of the players on the current roster are new to the Bills. 70%! Imagine a company firing 70% of its employees and starting over.

And, these new players aren't big-time stars. They came cheap. Humber was a S/T's player most of his career. E.J. Gaines was a 6th round pick 4 years ago. Shareece Wright shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Jordan Poyer was a 7th round pick by the Eagles and then played four years with the Browns before they cut him loose. Ryan Davis & Lorenzo Alexander wouldn't play for many other NFL teams.

The Coaches & Management knew this. The FANS realized it to. For some crazy reason we got off to a wonderful start in the season. One reason was turn-overs. They came our way in bunches. Any long time fan knows that all evens out.

Tyrod was shaky last year. He looked better with all those turn-overs by the defense this year. We all hoped for a miracle season but real NFL football caught up with us!

It's time for a QB change and an offensive strategy re-start. Get the receivers involved and hopefully our most talented player in the backfield will excel. GO BILLS!

True but it was fun while it lasted

[Mat68]

9 hours ago, Punt75 said:

Figure it out! 70% of the players on the current roster are new to the Bills. 70%! Imagine a company firing 70% of its employees and starting over.

And, these new players aren't big-time stars. They came cheap. Humber was a S/T's player most of his career. E.J. Gaines was a 6th round pick 4 years ago. Shareece Wright shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Jordan Poyer was a 7th round pick by the Eagles and then played four years with the Browns before they cut him loose. Ryan Davis & Lorenzo Alexander wouldn't play for many other NFL teams.

The Coaches & Management knew this. The FANS realized it to. For some crazy reason we got off to a wonderful start in the season. One reason was turn-overs. They came our way in bunches. Any long time fan knows that all evens out.

Tyrod was shaky last year. He looked better with all those turn-overs by the defense this year. We all hoped for a miracle season but real NFL football caught up with us!

It's time for a QB change and an offensive strategy re-start. Get the receivers involved and hopefully our most talented player in the backfield will excel. GO BILLS!

If th company hasnt been successful in 17 years you probably should bring in new people.

[Doc]

More of these types of threads?   FCOL!

[Billsfan1972]

41 minutes ago, Lfod said:

 Good points. They made a bunch of moves shifted themselves to have more ammunition in the draft while trying to keep a semblance of winning now. They actually did well and 5-2 was a reality and everyone loved it. A few moves they have been bold in my opinion and could backfire and possibly have already but I still respect the choices.

 

If you like the new coach and general manager, and I do a lot. Then you understand they did pretty well with what they had. Short term pain for long term gain. I can understand people being upset having the hopes of breaking the drought dangled in front of them.

 

I think I'll just keep an open mind and see overall how a lot of the choices they made pan out into next year. I would like the team to win on Sunday and at least the shift and QB will make it entertaining. 

 

I like this new front office. Good or bad they are making moves. It tells me that they will keep changing to be better.

Drink the Kool-Aid......  Anyone who is a first-time coach & GM has earned no respect or should be given the benefit of the doubt from an organization that has not made the playoffs in 17 years and coming off disappointing but not terrible seasons under Rex.

 

The # here who actually have fallen for this is astounding.  How much easier would it have been just to say we are going to improve the talent of this team, manage the books and be competitive.

 

They lost me when they started by dismantling the offense, not keeping Watkins and seeing what he could accomplish if healthy and forcing TT to use him as the primary target (i.e. 8-10 targets a game), and then rebuliding the defense to where they were in 2014.  

 

A QB coach and OC that worked in installing an offense and taking advantage of TT and seeing this on the field in terms of offensive set, audibles, shotgun and seeing multiple sets and movement would tell me whether the issue is with TT or the OC.  

 

Instead we get a surprise 5-2 start, McDermott discussion as Coach of the Year and the playoffs actually a possibility.   Then two losses and with still the playoffs in site a qb change at the worst possible time (a winnable game).

 

Heck if TT was as bad vs. LAC as he was vs. NO and 5-5 then go ahead and no one get's too excited, but to do it this week just tells you how little the coaching staff knows (or how bad they have been to date if TT really really is that bad and uncoachable).

 

And those buying the FO and coaching staff are just gullible.    

[TPS]

There is only one reason McD made the change: Taylor can't run the WCO effectively, and Peterman can. Tanking talk is rediculous. I also believe he could make the change this week because there is no home field advantage for LAC. There is no way he would've thrown peterman in if KC was his first start.

[Doc]

Just now, TPS said:

There is only one reason McD made the change: Taylor can't run the WCO effectively, and Peterman can. Tanking talk is rediculous. I also believe he could make the change this week because there is no home field advantage for LAC. There is no way he would've thrown peterman in if KC was his first start.

 

Yup.  Add-in the fact that with the Chargers' pass-rush TT would be getting sacked a ton because he wouldn't get the ball out fast enough.

 

People need to accept the fact that TT is not and never will be a franchise QB.  That's why this move is being made.  They need to see if Peterman can be one, and if not, they need to draft one next year. 

[nedboy7]

As usual..... Get a Grip! 

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, Punt75 said:

Figure it out! 70% of the players on the current roster are new to the Bills. 70%! Imagine a company firing 70% of its employees and starting over.

 

It was not a tank season just a poster tanking start of posts.  70% were not fired.

[papazoid]

players will NOT tank

 

coaches will NOT tank

 

some GM's (whaley) mortgage future draft picks (trade up for Sammy, trade up for Ragland) to hang on to their job.

 

some GM's (whaley) overpay bloated contracts (Dareus, Hughes, Glenn and even McCoy) for short term gains.

 

some GM's (beane) have a long term vision to managing the salary cap.

 

some GM's (beane) accumulate future draft assets

[JM2009]

Bad thread. And the sixth spot is up for grabs. 

[row_33]

Papazoid, there’s degrees of tanking. The Sixers simply declared they were happily winning 12 of 82 games for years.

 

The NFL has the special option of a team not honestly making the playoffs and having to decide if they want to eke out as many wins as possible with washed up veterans, or playing the kids to get them experience and winning a few less games.

 

[dulles]

I'm looking forward to the new threads which will be started Sunday evening.  Bills win...why didn't McD make the move sooner?   Bills lose...see: TANK!

[DefenseWins]

FOLLOW THE MONEY! That's what this has ALL been about...

The Bills under Whaley screwed up the salary cap big time. When McD came in, he realized that this team was already in "Salary Cap Hell" with a bunch of players making/or soon to be making huge amounts of money/salary cap space that was simply undeserved. When you look at the money that was being consumed by the so-called "stars" of this team (TT, Dareus, Gilmore, Watkins, Clay, Shady and to a lesser extent Darby and Glenn) vs what they were achieving on the field it became obvious that deep changes in the roster had to be made. Once you realize that TT was not the franchise QB and that even if you get lucky and draft your franchise QB in 2018 you have to realize that younger guys are gonna be drafted to fill out the team around him. You simply have to upgrade the surrounding talent to make the young QB successful in the long term. Clay and Glenn in particular have been and will probrably be too "injury prone" to continue paying such large salaries to in the future and Kyle Williams will most likely retire after this season as well.

 

The immediate decision to be made is whether or not Peterman has the talent to be the franchise QB or not, so that they know whether to go hard after one of the top 3 QB's in the draft or whether they can stay put and use their own pick to draft somebody to compete with Peterman. Either way they need to draft a QB highly even if they like Peterman's chances.

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

It's a half-assed tank! A schizo-tank!  Think about it

- re-sign Tyrod:  the new regime is gonna go for it in '17!

- draft: instead of taking a flyer on a project, we trade down to get a solid 1st year starter (White) and up to get another one (Zay)

- then, the big 180: bye-bye Sammy and Darby.  Umm, maybe they're giving up on '17 after all?

- then, the hot start: hey, it seemed crazy, but this new regime seems to know what they're doing!

- then, bye-bye Dareus: wait a minute, weren't we all just saying that you take a good defense, add a healthy Dareus, we're going places? This is a slo-motion tank after all!

- then, hello Kelvin Benjamin: I told ya!  We are going for it! Dumping that lazy tub of lard Dareus didn't = tanking. It meant upgrading. For right now!

- then, benching Tyrod for a 5th round rookie: those bastards tricked us. It was a tank after all! They're actually pissed that they're 5-4. They wanted the freedom that 4-12 brings!

 

It's an emotional roller coaster, I tell ya! How do we Bills fans manage to stay sane??

[Scott7975]

Oh Jesus.  This team was never tanking.  They are playing the best they can while building the team in their vision.  

[iinii]

7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It's a half-assed tank! A schizo-tank!  Think about it

- re-sign Tyrod:  the new regime is gonna go for it in '17!

- draft: instead of taking a flyer on a project, we trade down to get a solid 1st year starter (White) and up to get another one (Zay)

- then, the big 180: bye-bye Sammy and Darby.  Umm, maybe they're giving up on '17 after all?

- then, the hot start: hey, it seemed crazy, but this new regime seems to know what they're doing!

- then, bye-bye Dareus: wait a minute, weren't we all just saying that you take a good defense, add a healthy Dareus, we're going places? This is a slo-motion tank after all!

- then, hello Kelvin Benjamin: I told ya!  We are going for it! Dumping that lazy tub of lard Dareus didn't = tanking. It meant upgrading. For right now!

- then, benching Tyrod for a 5th round rookie: those bastards tricked us. It was a tank after all! They're actually pissed that they're 5-4. They wanted the freedom that 4-12 brings!

 

It's an emotional roller coaster, I tell ya! How do we Bills fans manage to stay sane??

Who is sane?

[The Now Moment]

The word tanking I believe is wrong.  I think the correct word is rebuilding.  Tanking implies they want to suck and from what I gather with the constant grinding of the roster...they aren't tanking but rebuilding

[dulles]

38 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It's a half-assed tank! A schizo-tank!  Think about it

- re-sign Tyrod:  the new regime is gonna go for it in '17!

- draft: instead of taking a flyer on a project, we trade down to get a solid 1st year starter (White) and up to get another one (Zay)

- then, the big 180: bye-bye Sammy and Darby.  Umm, maybe they're giving up on '17 after all?

- then, the hot start: hey, it seemed crazy, but this new regime seems to know what they're doing!

- then, bye-bye Dareus: wait a minute, weren't we all just saying that you take a good defense, add a healthy Dareus, we're going places? This is a slo-motion tank after all!

- then, hello Kelvin Benjamin: I told ya!  We are going for it! Dumping that lazy tub of lard Dareus didn't = tanking. It meant upgrading. For right now!

- then, benching Tyrod for a 5th round rookie: those bastards tricked us. It was a tank after all! They're actually pissed that they're 5-4. They wanted the freedom that 4-12 brings!

 

It's an emotional roller coaster, I tell ya! How do we Bills fans manage to stay sane??

At least schizo-tank is good for media ratings and some ticket sales!

[klos63]

5 hours ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

I guess the only question I have is why bench a lousy qb and take a chance on Peterman being better if your really tanking. Seriously. Peterman is gonna have to take sucking to a whole new level to eclipse that 56 yard gem Tyrod had last week. If you really want to tank keep Tyrod out there. The geniuses in the media would have never grown suspicious of your true intent. They mostly think its a huge mistake benching Tyrod.

This may be semantics, but they are not tanking- they are doing a total rebuild. The effort was to win now, but the personnel moves were for the future. Next year could be a pretty difficult year. Expect a lot more turnover and many rookies starting.

[phxbacker]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

If th company hasnt been successful in 17 years you probably should bring in new people.

 

not sure the company would be in existence by year 17 if they where not succesful that whole time.

[Buffalo716]

9 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Because the offense was good enough to make the playoffs last year with an average defense.  All McDermott had to do was rebuild a defense into average.  Instead he has destroyed a top 10 scoring offense and #1 rushing offense.  His defense created turnovers in bunches, but now can not stop the run and has never been able to get consistent pressure on the QB.

 

Peope always talk about that top 10 scoring offense

 

it was never that good

 

TT has had a bunch of duds over the 3 years where our offense was very stagnant

 

the only thing that kept us relevant was our running game but even then defensive coordinators catch up and will take that away And mAke TT beat you. Which he cant

 

our offense was smoke and mirrors for 3 years . Not a legit top 10 offense

 

we could never throw

 

 

 

[#34fan]

SMART move for McBeandip.... Every new HC-GM combo gets a throw-away season to put it all together... Absolutely nothing to lose here for either of them.

Peterman has been my Avatar since the night we drafted him... Not because he's a guaranteed franchise guy, but because he represented a path AWAY from Tyrod, who I feel will either a Panther, or a Buc next season... FINALLY, a way forward... AND a clearer path to a franchise QB!

[keepthefaith]

If the Bills somehow make the playoffs while at the same time create a lot of cap space and gather a bunch of draft picks, it will be best GM and coaching job done in this franchise since the Polian years.  Even 8-8 while positioning for the future is a great job.