row_33 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 The answer is talent. With the Pats probably a lock to take the division, making the playoffs hoping to squeak out a WC is a long shot. Then there's that talent thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 ^^^ How many DBs have the Bills drafted in the first or second round in the last 20 years who were allowed to walk away in free agency after their rookie contracts despite the fact that they were clearly excellent players, several with Pro Bowl appearances on their resumes? How many times did the Bills then turn around and draft a replacement for said DB in the first or second round of the next draft? Allowing Gilmore to walk and then drafting White to replace him is simply the latest iteration of one of the Bills' favorite moves over the length of the playoff drought. It doesn't make the team better; it simply saves real $$$ for the organization. A first round rookie gets paid a whole lot less than a proven vet with Pro Bowl honors. Meanwhile, that first rounder could have been used to draft another OLer or DLer to groom to replace the aging vets on both lines!!! Guys like Kyle Williams and Richie Incognito will both be on the wrong side of 35 by next season. Several other members of both lines are on the wrong side of 30, too. Then there's the possibility of Vlad Ducasse pretending to play RG ... The Bills have similarly used first/second round picks on rent-a-RB for 20 years, too, beginning with Antoine Smith drafted in 1997, Travis Henry in 2001, Willis McGahee in 2003, Marshawn Lynch in 2007, and CJ Spiller in 2010. All of them had some success after they were traded/allowed to walk in FA, and Smith and Lynch have Super Bowl rings. Fans who have paid attention to the Bills over the years see the current regime doing the very same things that the failed regimes of the past have done. We recognize it for what it is: the way the Bills organization has operated for nearly two decades and we don't expect any more success from the new regime than any of the previous ones had. talk about nailing it. well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Dear God... OP, check back in around week 5, and thanks for the comical post. Agreed 100% I'll bet you can find people on the NY Jets board who think they have a chance at the playoffs. Delusion is everywhere! The Bills currently have the worst receiving corps in the league and are a McCoy hamstring away from the worst RB corp in the league. And the QB situation is comical. Which team are you talking about? Seriously dude? Edited September 5, 2017 by Billsguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I admire your optimism, but this is going to be a rough year. There is so much turnover. to expect the team to be a team week one would be optimistic at best. I expect the defense to be better, which will help. If they win 8 games I would be amazed and McD deserves coach of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN_NYC Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Yup those "negative" fans are always wrong, oh wait actually no they're not, it's been 17 years of no Playoffs. But you're right, let's blindly follow this regime and support every head scratching move they make. Call me crazy but I'm gonna take a wild guess. My guess is, you don't trust the process... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Did you actually research this or are you pulling this out of your butt? I researched it. There have been new HC who took teams to playoffs first year, but none with this kind of mega roster turnover. fart.... Edited September 5, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) No Talent, Tommy Brady, no QB, new secondary, no speed at WR, injuries, lack of depth, bad luck, Flutie jinx. Edited September 5, 2017 by bisonbrigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 ^^^ How many DBs have the Bills drafted in the first or second round in the last 20 years who were allowed to walk away in free agency after their rookie contracts despite the fact that they were clearly excellent players, several with Pro Bowl appearances on their resumes? How many times did the Bills then turn around and draft a replacement for said DB in the first or second round of the next draft? Allowing Gilmore to walk and then drafting White to replace him is simply the latest iteration of one of the Bills' favorite moves over the length of the playoff drought. It doesn't make the team better; it simply saves real $$$ for the organization. A first round rookie gets paid a whole lot less than a proven vet with Pro Bowl honors. Meanwhile, that first rounder could have been used to draft another OLer or DLer to groom to replace the aging vets on both lines!!! Guys like Kyle Williams and Richie Incognito will both be on the wrong side of 35 by next season. Several other members of both lines are on the wrong side of 30, too. Then there's the possibility of Vlad Ducasse pretending to play RG ... The Bills have similarly used first/second round picks on rent-a-RB for 20 years, too, beginning with Antoine Smith drafted in 1997, Travis Henry in 2001, Willis McGahee in 2003, Marshawn Lynch in 2007, and CJ Spiller in 2010. All of them had some success after they were traded/allowed to walk in FA, and Smith and Lynch have Super Bowl rings. Fans who have paid attention to the Bills over the years see the current regime doing the very same things that the failed regimes of the past have done. We recognize it for what it is: the way the Bills organization has operated for nearly two decades and we don't expect any more success from the new regime than any of the previous ones had. DROP THE MIC and walk off the stage. 100 % agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Well, let's just look at this in detail. They traded two young guys in Watkins and Darby. And got back two young guys in Matthews and Gaines (which you and others refuse to acknowledge when you say they dumped them for picks) and two picks. So at least in terms of age that's a wash. They traded Seymour for, again, a younger WR and a pick. So same deal there. This topic is about is whether or not this is a playoff team. The Seymour deal may be a wash, though I think we got the short end of the stick. BUT Watkins and Darby, combined are way, way better than Matthews and Gaines. Not even close. That's why we have received the picks. The deals may work out for the future, and I'm not saying it won't but for 2017 the talent pool is much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 This topic is about is whether or not this is a playoff team. The Seymour deal may be a wash, though I think we got the short end of the stick. BUT Watkins and Darby, combined are way, way better than Matthews and Gaines. Not even close. That's why we have received the picks. The deals may work out for the future, and I'm not saying it won't but for 2017 the talent pool is much less. Well, if you had read that part of the thread you would have seen my response was to a statement saying we let young players go for old players. We didn't with Sammy and Darby. We got back two guys in Gaines and Matthews who have exactly the same years experience in the league. If you had read further you would see that I was not in favor of the Sammy trade. So we've now established you didn't read anything before posting this. I think Sammy if healthy is a great talent. Darby and Gaines was a wash. Seymour? I don't get hung up on a # 5 CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schick Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 As much as he grated on me, I wonder if this way of doing business is what Marrone wanted in an organization. The ability to swiftly make personnel and scheme decisions based only on what they believed to be in the best interest of the team. No concern over name recognition, draft status, etc. We obviously didn't have it before, and maybe that's why he felt it wasn't worth sticking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 Agreed 100% I'll bet you can find people on the NY Jets board who think they have a chance at the playoffs. Delusion is everywhere! The Bills currently have the worst receiving corps in the league and are a McCoy hamstring away from the worst RB corp in the league. And the QB situation is comical. Which team are you talking about? Seriously dude? You mention the offense. What about the defense? And our WR corps last year was arguably as bad as this year for most of the season with all the games Sammy and Woods missed. If Matthews and Jones stay on the field healthy all year (which is obviously a big if), I'd guess our WRs this year are better than last year. And we still have McCoy, one of the best RBs in the league. Criticize the other guys all you want but we did the same with "who the hell is Karlos Williams" and then "who the hell is Mike Gillislee." RBs are just largely a dime a dozen, especially in this running scheme. Why is the QB situation any more comical than last year? I think it's better because if Taylor misses games because of injury or benching, we don't have to watch EJ Manuel take the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 You mention the offense. What about the defense? And our WR corps last year was arguably as bad as this year for most of the season with all the games Sammy and Woods missed. If Matthews and Jones stay on the field healthy all year (which is obviously a big if), I'd guess our WRs this year are better than last year. And we still have McCoy, one of the best RBs in the league. Criticize the other guys all you want but we did the same with "who the hell is Karlos Williams" and then "who the hell is Mike Gillislee." RBs are just largely a dime a dozen, especially in this running scheme. Why is the QB situation any more comical than last year? I think it's better because if Taylor misses games because of injury or benching, we don't have to watch EJ Manuel take the field. We actually don't know how this running scheme will work, since it isn't the same as the previous two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 I researched it. There have been new HC who took teams to playoffs first year, but none with this kind of mega roster turnover. fart.... I mean I could take your word for it, except for the fact that the 2008 Atlanta Falcons, who had a mega roster turnover (I didn't do the math, but looks about equal to what we have) and a new HC, went to the playoffs in the first year of this mega roster turnover. So, forgive me for not believing you spent much time researching this when we have a pretty obvious and prominent example within the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) I mean I could take your word for it, except for the fact that the 2008 Atlanta Falcons, who had a mega roster turnover (I didn't do the math, but looks about equal to what we have) and a new HC, went to the playoffs in the first year of this mega roster turnover. So, forgive me for not believing you spent much time researching this when we have a pretty obvious and prominent example within the last decade. How are the Bills better than the last few years when they have finished with an aggregate 8-8 record? The talent doesn't say they're better on either side of the ball. And sorry McDermott is not getting a pass as a better Coach than Marrone or Ryan just because he is new. He has shown nothing so far. Edited September 5, 2017 by Straight Hucklebuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 How are the Bills better than the last few years when they have finished with an aggregate 8-8 record? The talent doesn't say they're better on either side of the ball. And sorry McDermott is not getting a pass as a better Coach than Marrone or Ryan just because he is new. He has shown nothing so far. Ummm... what? Who says anyone's getting a pass as anything? I'm not. I don't know what McDermott is. But I think if he ends up being a great coach (and a lot of folks raved about his hire) then this team with this roster could still find a way into the playoffs. I think talent is overvalued by folks here and coaching is undervalued. I'm really looking forward to how that statement is going to result in one of those great message board leaps of me somehow saying that talent doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Please dude, this team is botton five talent wise.... but we get the Jets twice, but playoffs.... would love to hear a reason anyone thinks they are playoff caliber. This is possibly the worst roster they've had since 1984. They'll win 4-7.Wanna bet me ?????? More of a realistic bet.................... crickets 4-7 is reasonable....1 win is easy money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I think this team will surprise some people but ultimately fall short of the playoffs. I predict 8-8. Jets and Phins could be 4 wins. I have zero fear of Cutler at this point in his career. One thing he loves is turning the ball over, early and often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I think this team will surprise some people but ultimately fall short of the playoffs. I predict 8-8. Jets and Phins could be 4 wins. I have zero fear of Cutler at this point in his career. One thing he loves is turning the ball over, early and often. People want to knock MIA because of Cutler. I think he can perform just as well as Tannehill, if not better, given he stays healthy. He had his best year of his career under Gase. He also has more weapons in MIA than he has ever had. Parker is gonna be his Alshon, he has Julius Thomas, that dirty bastard Landry, Stills to take the top off of the D, and a beast in Ajayi at RB. I wouldn't be surprised if Miami wins 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Schedule You just have to beat the team in front of you. some coaches have a gift to prepare guys to do just that. Be nice if Buffalo had one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 People want to knock MIA because of Cutler. I think he can perform just as well as Tannehill, if not better, given he stays healthy. He had his best year of his career under Gase. He also has more weapons in MIA than he has ever had. Parker is gonna be his Alshon, he has Julius Thomas, that dirty bastard Landry, Stills to take the top off of the D, and a beast in Ajayi at RB. I wouldn't be surprised if Miami wins 10 games. Agreed. I watched one of Miami's games (I think it was the third) and I was surprised at how well Cutler played. Cutler has always been a decent QB. His problem has always been that every so often he turns space cadet and throws an absolutely bizarre INT for apparently no rhyme or reason, and then he gets into a funk and falls apart. Since he's diabetic, maybe his blood sugar spikes or crashes and he loses focus for a bit. Whatever the reason, Gase certainly managed him well, and I second the idea that he's got many more weapons than he had in Chicago. Miami also has a pretty good OL and a decent D. I've never been a Tannehill fan. Like Andy Dalton, he's competent but he needs a good team around him for any kind of success, which is likely why the Bengals can get to the playoffs but don't do much when they get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I do have faith in our new coach...I just think we don't have enough to reach the playoffs this year...next year will be a different story...for 2017, I'm afraid our secondary will be exposed....we are facing Brady 2X, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers.....that's 5 game with great passers.....then Carr, Winston, Newton and Luck ( if healthy ).....Andy Dalton and Alex Smith are the easiest games ( besides Jets and Dolphins ).....and they are decent QBs.... Our front 7 on D might be solid, but I think our O is not...eventually, the defense will get tired...we've seen that movie before.... So...6-10, 7-9 or 8-8 yep.......playoffs ?...nope.....the WC spots are not in our reach this year....and the division is out of the question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Since you're so interested, prove him wrong by providing an example of a team that did swap out 41 of 63 players as well as hiring on a new coaching staff and FO. I can think of one that might fit that criteria but I'm not going to waste my time figuring out how much the roster changed. I'll give you a hint: it was an AFC team and happened within the last decade. I think it may have happened in our division last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) I do have faith in our new coach...I just think we don't have enough to reach the playoffs this year...next year will be a different story...for 2017, I'm afraid our secondary will be exposed....we are facing Brady 2X, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers.....that's 5 game with great passers.....then Carr, Winston, Newton and Luck ( if healthy ).....Andy Dalton and Alex Smith are the easiest games ( besides Jets and Dolphins ).....and they are decent QBs.... Our front 7 on D might be solid, but I think our O is not...eventually, the defense will get tired...we've seen that movie before.... So...6-10, 7-9 or 8-8 yep.......playoffs ?...nope.....the WC spots are not in our reach this year....and the division is out of the question.... This. I think we could be better than 2016 and have a worse record. I actually think the 2016 team was better than the 2015 team and had a worse record (I know that is probably because they sat Tyrod against the Jets.... but still.....). The 2015 was a disaster in so many ways. To go 8-8 on that powder puff schedule you had to be a pretty bad football team. That year more than any other in the drought should have been a playoff season. Edited September 6, 2017 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) I think people underestimate the value woods brought for the offense. Its a sneaky-bad loss Edited September 6, 2017 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 @MatthewFairburn What has to happen for Sean McDermott's Buffalo Bills to make the playoffs? Here are 8 things: http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/09/what_has_to_happen_for_sean_mcdermotts_buffalo_bills_to_make_the_playoffs.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Fairburn what a funny guy The rest of the AFC takes a step back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 You just have to beat the team in front of you. some coaches have a gift to prepare guys to do just that. Be nice if Buffalo had one. Knox was the last one. Marv was handed a great team and they lost games they shouldn't have and won easily when they were the better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 jMore #Bills HC Sean McDermott's buzz term for Week 1: "Go out and do your job." 6:47 AM - 6 Sep 2017 Joe BuscagliaVerified account @JoeBuscaglia 5h5 hours agoMore #Bills HC Sean McDermott wants Tyrod Taylor to be one of 11 on the offense: "Go out and do your job." Those are via Joe B. Sounds like McDermott's trying to channel his inner hoodie. Let's hope he coaches like him. If he does, good things. As I've been saying, regardless of whatever drop in talent people think there is on this team (which is probably true, but vastly exaggerated), I think a great HC who creates a team can really make up for a lot of that lost talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Remember, a kickoff is a live ball and the other team can get an easy TD if you stand there watching the ball roll into the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Are the Patriots still in our division? Yeah that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Doing one's job is a big part of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I'm on board the McBeane train and believe they have a plan to win; but it won't be this year. - I like Tyrod but he'll only get the team so far. - I like Z Jones and J Mathews, but they are very thin at WR - Rookie CB and thin at DB - OL has yet to prove they can pass block consistently and only have Groy as backup. - Thin at LB If they stay completely healthy and play well, then maybe 8-8 but 5-11 seems more realistic. My hope is they play well and grow over the course of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Mediocre, at best, QB No real playmakers among the receivers/TEs Suspect offensive line Bad secondary Bad depth at basically every position outside of D-line. Tyrod would have to take a huge step forward for us to even compete for a playoff spot, and that doesn't look likely based on preseason returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Are the Patriots still in our division? Yeah that's why. So are the Jets and Dolphins. 4-2 is a winning record in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 So are the Jets and Dolphins. 4-2 is a winning record in the division. Fish made the playoffs last year in the same division as Patsies**. Jets and Fish have both made it twice during the Cheat era. What's our excuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Fish made the playoffs last year in the same division as Patsies**. Jets and Fish have both made it twice during the Cheat era. What's our excuse? Bad Karma? The Curse of Lake SJF? Buy low sell high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I'm sorry, I'm just a little amazed at all of this talk about how horrible we're going to be. I actually can't believe anyone thinks this team is going to be a 4-12 or worse with such confidence. Amazing! So, I ask, how have we regressed so much? Shall we take it position by position? QB: I am aware this is the big controversial position. But are we worse with a 3rd year Tyrod Taylor, hope promising young Rookie, and a vet who at least has knowledge in the system than a 2nd year Taylor, EJ Manuel and Cardale Jones? I guess the offensive system is the answer to this question so we're going to see soon enough RB: McCoy is a year older but it doesn't seem like he's lost a step. Who knows about our backups but these zone blocking schemes are designed for RBs to thrive, aren't they? Tolbert's better than Felton. Doesn't seem much worse, if worse. WR: Obvious question mark. But let's be honest about our WRs last year: Sammy and Woods missed 11 combined games last year. That's tied with a few teams and the only fewer than San Diego in terms of number one and number two wide receiver's missing games. We had street wide receivers. Right now our WR core seems worse on paper, but if Matthews can stay healthy and Jones can keep looking like he has in the preseason I don't know how much of a step down our WR core will really be. Like the QB I think it's another wait and see. Powell might be a welcome addition after week 4. TEs: Better, no? Seems there will be a focus on getting them the ball and O'Leary has another year and looks good and Thomas looks like a promising prospect. OL: Worse to begin the season with questions surrounding Glenn and RG and RT, but I suspect both will be solidified relatively quickly. Just gotta hope Glenn stays healthy. K: BETTER!!! Punter: Same Coverage: I honestly have no clue DL: Sure did operate a lot better under a 4-3 than a 3-4, didn't it? Yeah there are questions but Kyle doesn't seem to be slowing down and it sounds like Hughes and Lawson will be really good in this D. Marcel is so freaking talented let's just hope he "buys in." Yarborough looks like a promising backup among others. LBs: Not a clue honestly but sounds like Brown will be a lot better. Lorax was a gem last year and if he's nearly as good it just means good things. CB: Brand new defense so can we maybe wait to freak out? White looks great. Gaines is a strong zone CB and that's what we're running. Same with Wright. Josh Norman thrived in this system that ultimately made him a star... not nearly as good now in a new system in Washington, is he? S: Top heavy and not deep but I think Hyde and Poyer are better than what we had last year. Coaching: It's everything. If it's good, I think we win a lot. If not we lose. I know that sounds simple, but we saw gross incompetence at that spot in the last couple years in particular. I think we see better. I don't really make predictions, but I can't believe all the folks calling us a 4-12 team. Point to the schedule if you want I guess, but even that seems a little simple minded given the consistent inconsistency of teams in the NFL. The night is darkest before the dawn, folks. Dawn comes in less than a week The make up of the team. lack of a competent back-up QB; I don't remember the OC ever working with David Webb , the coach/gm knowing webb doesn't make it a viable option for a offense coach/gm never experienced. You can't deplete areas of talent with out upgrading something. which this novice GM is good at doing it seams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 This is a 5 win team. But hey, As long as they love each other like coach says, that should push them over the edge vs keeping talented players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Your opinion with no data. And what data would you suggest to prove that one roster is better than another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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