Sources: Chasm between Bills coaches, front office on Tyrod

[GunnerBill]

I think .500 is probably the worst position to be in.

Yes... but we have GMs who have overseen much worse.

[34-78-83]

Since you're all there already, there is no valid evidence of DW not liking TT... Let alone evidence of a rift between DW and the coaching staff...take away the speculation articles and this stuff came from thin air.

[par73]

Buscaglia is discussing this on twitter now. It is really not surprising-- if you listened to McDermott's press conference at the Combine. He said there was still not a decision on the QB, and that there was a "healthy" debate re: players. Everyone knows Whaley wants Taylor gone-- so it is easy to infer that McDermott wants to keep him. And seeing Brandon's name (along with Overdorf) mentioned in player discussions is sickening (if true).

Bottom line is as it was before-- the Bills needed to clean house. Ryan was only the tip of the iceberg named "Dysfunction"--- aka, Buffalo Bills.

[BADOLBILZ]

.500 over the 3 seasons that have followed full Whaley offseasons. Great? No. Terrible? No.

 

Not making the playoffs is a bad year.......which is all he's done since he got here..........that's what I mean by losing.

 

He's a thoroughly average talent evaluator whose had more than average resources at his disposal during his tenure as GM.

 

And still, he doesn't control his destiny.........he is both dragged down by a bad HC in Rex and propped up by Rex decision to bring in Taylor.

 

If not for Taylor, without question Whaley would have been fired by now.........his inability to identify QB talent would have been magnified greatly.

 

He is basically a bridge GM.

 

Nothing but NOT being fired in the next 2 years would surprise me.........fired after draft........fired after next season.....

[GunnerBill]

 

Not making the playoffs is a bad year.......which is all he's done since he got here..........that's what I mean by losing.

 

He's a thoroughly average talent evaluator whose had more than average resources at his disposal during his tenure as GM.

 

And still, he doesn't control his destiny.........he is both dragged down by a bad HC in Rex and propped up by Rex decision to bring in Taylor.

 

If not for Taylor, without question Whaley would have been fired by now.........his inability to identify QB talent would have been magnified greatly.

 

He is basically a bridge GM.

 

Nothing but NOT being fired in the next 2 years would surprise me.........fired after draft........fired after next season.....

I'm not some Whaley superfan. I just think when you have a fanbase split between tear down and reload the GM can't win. Whichever he does there is half the fan base who wants the opposite.

[iinii]

Many, many coaches feel the scheme, when executed properly, is more important than the talent.

Coaches may be realists that have an average player is "good enough" at certain positions. Very few front offices have the balls to get rid of an average QB in an effort to get an elite one, so I do give the Bills some credit for at least considering "going big or going home".

I think the Seattle route (lots of elite players, simple scheme) is still the best way to go.

Exactly and Coach Carroll's fingerprints are all over this franchise.

[JM2009]

I believe Russ Brandon and Whaley should have been let go.

[BADOLBILZ]

I'm not some Whaley superfan. I just think when you have a fanbase split between tear down and reload the GM can't win. Whichever he does there is half the fan base who wants the opposite.

 

 

Right.......that's where he is.......he's earned that status.

 

But he CAN WIN..........by winning.

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm not some Whaley superfan. I just think when you have a fanbase split between tear down and reload the GM can't win. Whichever he does there is half the fan base who wants the opposite.

How about just winning? Wouldn't that get the fanbase on board?

[oldmanfan]

It's hard to place much stock in anything with LaCanfora's name in it

[JM2009]

It's hard to place much stock in anything with LaCanfora's name in it

Glad you are here Indy!

[Heitz]

Buffalo's latest Tweet

 

 

@buffalobills

Why all the DeShaun Watson hype?

The Clemson QB's teammates explain at the #NFLCombine: bufbills.co/l3MiPh

 

[K-9]

 

 

Right.......that's where he is.......he's earned that status.

 

But he CAN WIN..........by winning.

It really is just as simple as that.

[SectionC3]

First of all, yes, JLC is a horrific shill and crappy reporter.

Is it even remotely plausible that Whaley hired a head coach with whom he disagreed on the Taylor situation? I'm not the biggest Whaley fan, but I'm living in the real world here.

Who says Whaley hired the coach?

Russ Brandon still making personnel decisions!!

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-coaches-execs-remain-split-on-picking-up-tyrod-taylors-30m-option/

 

INDIANAPOLIS -- The Buffalo Bills are about a week away from another potential franchise-altering decision at quarterback, and it’s causing considerable consternation within the organization.

 

League sources say a chasm remains between coaches and the front office whether to execute a $30M option on the promising-but-unproven quarterback. As I reported in December, Buffalo’s decision makers -- general manager Doug Whaley, senior VP of football administration Jim Overdorf and team president Russ Brandon -- decided they didn’t want to pay Taylor in 2017. They wanted Taylor out as starter late in last season (he was shut down for Week 17 once owner Terry Pegula fired coach Rex Ryan), and that has not changed.

 

The front office still feels the current salary structure they negotiated themselves a year ago -- instead of a more standard year-to-year, pay-as-you-go format -- doesn’t make sense, thus their interest in veteran QB options like Tony Romo and Brian Hoyer. However, new coach Sean McDermott and Pegula have become close. McDermott and his staff are not convinced they will find an upgrade over Taylor and see no problem with paying Taylor $17M a year, the sources say.

 

So, mere months into Buffalo’s latest regime change, they are at another crossroads of their own making (choosing this contract structure for Taylor’s extension was puzzling from the start). While I wouldn’t underestimate how highly the owner thinks of his new coach, picking up a $30M option is no small thing for even the richest men to consider. And the front-office core Pegula has relied upon for years remains firmly in the don’t-pick-up-the-option camp.

 

In the meantime, the Bills continue to monitor the veteran QB market, meeting with agents to gauge price points of free-agent options. Some in that building remain intrigued by the prospect of trading for Romo, though the feasibility is under question and I’ve heard Buffalo is not Romo’s favored locale.

 

They’ll have to decide whether Taylor’s option is the safest, most prudent route. One thing is for certain -- this coaching staff has no qualms about working with him and would prefer to do so. And Taylor hits the open market I have no doubt he would fare quite well.

This reeks of a Berchtold leak. What better way to get back at brandon for dumping him. I imagine the guy who paid $1.4B for the franchise would be none too happy to hear that one of his business employees is deciding the fate of the most important position in the franchise.

[BuffaloBud420]

GM should make decision. Doug obviously doesnt want Tyrod.

[stony]

 

Not making the playoffs is a bad year.......which is all he's done since he got here..........that's what I mean by losing.

 

He's a thoroughly average talent evaluator whose had more than average resources at his disposal during his tenure as GM.

 

And still, he doesn't control his destiny.........he is both dragged down by a bad HC in Rex and propped up by Rex decision to bring in Taylor.

 

If not for Taylor, without question Whaley would have been fired by now.........his inability to identify QB talent would have been magnified greatly.

 

He is basically a bridge GM.

 

Nothing but NOT being fired in the next 2 years would surprise me.........fired after draft........fired after next season.....

 

This made me laugh.

Who says Whaley hired the coach?

 

This reeks of a Berchtold leak. What better way to get back at brandon for dumping him. I imagine the guy who paid $1.4B for the franchise would be none too happy to hear that one of his business employees is deciding the fate of the most important position in the franchise.

 

It's something. Kinda weird the "whole crew" was listed as the opposition party. A bit of a hedge...

[jeffismagic]

Does anyone understand who is making the decisions at One Bills Drive? This collaboration stuff has been going on since Donahoe left and it makes talking about Bills decisions impossible to discuss.

[RussellDopeland]

LaConfora is a fountain of useless drivel. That being said- this story, whilst considering the dubious source, would not be all that implausible. Whaley can't seem to get along with anyone, especially the head coach (Saint Doug, Rex). Apparently Whaley is a Napoleonic little snake that spends more time engaging in territorial pissing contests than anything else.

[Wayne Arnold]

GM should make decision. Doug obviously doesnt want Tyrod.

 

In this special case the new Head Coach should make the decision on Tyrod and the GM should be understanding of that. If he's not then he should be fired after the Draft. (He should be fired anyway because he stinks at his job).

[BillsFan17]

La Canfora has been absolutely awful. No two ways about it.

 

That being said, I don't want a room full of agreeing higher ups. Mcdermott touched on that sentiment the other day.

 

However, there needs to be some sort of semblance with what is going to be done at the single most important position.

[Wayne Arnold]

He should've been fired after the season.

 

Again Pegula for whatever reason didn't pull the trigger. Seems like he doesn't learn from mistakes.

 

He learned half of his mistake by firing Rex. Whaley is next. Only delaying the inevitable by keeping him around.

[JohnC]

Especially when the chef reports directly to and has the ear of the restaurant owner.

 

Bottom line is if Whaley doesn't agree with McD, so be it. But if he's gonna squawk and be unprofessional about it, and there's no reason to think he would at this point, then he'll be fired.

With respect to the highlighted area your statement is what my point is. If there is a disagreement between the GM and the HC on this critical issue and the HC's position prevails that is a clear indication that the GM's authority has been eroded.

 

Where I disagree with you is if the GM believes that a player is not worth his contract then it should be the responsibility of the GM to make the final determination. Of course the GM is going to consult with the HC but in normal circumstances the GM has the final say on the roster while the HC determines how to use the roster.

 

If that is the setup here where the HC's view trumps the GM's view on who should be on the roster then it is inevitably going to be a cause of friction. I'm not talking about the normal discussions on personnel matter that include disagreements but the on the key issue of who has the final say in assembling the roster.

 

My point is simply if this setup as described is true I find it very troubling.

[Hurricane]

La Canfora has been absolutely awful. No two ways about it.

 

That being said, I don't want a room full of agreeing higher ups. Mcdermott touched on that sentiment the other day.

 

However, there needs to be some sort of semblance with what is going to be done at the single most important position.

I usually believe things are a done deal when reported by Schefter and Rappaport.. Lacanfora is far behind them..

[26CornerBlitz]

LaConjecture!

[Crosscut100]

"I bet you thought I was gone....well guess again"

 

I didn't know Tim "the tool man" Taylor was in the Bills front office.

[DrDawkinstein]

Sal was on WGR earlier and blew this story out of the water. Went so far as to say he doesnt believe or trust anything LaCanfora reports. It was surprising to hear someone call out another member of the media that badly.

 

I agree wtih Sal. LaConjecture just needs BS to print and get clicks. This is more garbage during a time when there is very little real news.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

"Chasm exists between handler or K balls and Dan Carpenter!" - Film at 11.

 

 

Sources: Chasm between reality, LaConforta on Bills news...

[BarleyNY]

Who says Whaley hired the coach?

 

The other option is that Pegula hired a HC that disagrees with his GM regarding Taylor. Again, that makes no sense.

[K-9]

With respect to the highlighted area your statement is what my point is. If there is a disagreement between the GM and the HC on this critical issue and the HC's position prevails that is a clear indication that the GM's authority has been eroded.

 

Where I disagree with you is if the GM believes that a player is not worth his contract then it should be the responsibility of the GM to make the final determination. Of course the GM is going to consult with the HC but in normal circumstances the GM has the final say on the roster while the HC determines how to use the roster.

 

If that is the setup here where the HC's view trumps the GM's view on who should be on the roster then it is inevitably going to be a cause of friction. I'm not talking about the normal discussions on personnel matter that include disagreements but the on the key issue of who has the final say in assembling the roster.

 

My point is simply if this setup as described is true I find it very troubling.

 

The relationship is only eroded if one can't abide by the decision and acts in an unprofessional manner as a result. There is absolutely nothing at all to suggest Whaley can't get along with McDermott and freely acquiesce to his decision on TT. A decision, as I mentioned earlier, Whaley had no problem in deferring to a new head coach when the season concluded.

[SectionC3]

The other option is that Pegula hired a HC that disagrees with his GM regarding Taylor. Again, that makes no sense.

Your premise is that what lacanfora reported is untrue because (a) it came from lacanfora and (b) it is not possible that Whaley and McDermott are not in lockstep re the QB in early March because Whaley hired McDermott in early to mid-January. Could it be that pegula hired the hc (don't they both report directly to pegula?) with the understanding that McDermott would study Taylor and participate in a collaborative decision making process with Whaley regarding taylor's future? If so, isn't it possible that mcdermott's film study led him to a conclusion (keep Taylor) different from that reached by whaley (move on from Taylor)?

 

Frankly I would be surprised if McDermott had a strong opinion on Taylor during the interview process bc it's unlikely mcd had the chance to study Taylor before that time. The most obvious answer for mcd to give during the process is that he needed to review the film. If that's the case, it's entirely possible that, following film study, he feels differently from Whaley in this isssue.

Edited March 4, 2017 by SectionC3

[racketmaster]

Curious as to what McD and/or Dennison have said to indicate they'd like to keep Taylor.

Nothing concrete, just a few clues.(1) there were some reports from Baltimore that Tyrod and Dennison had a good relationship and Kubiak praised Taylor for picking up his system (2) when Kubiak goes to Denver he tries signing Tyrod in FA, (3) after Manning retires reports surfaced in Denver again that Denver was interested in trading for Tyrod at the draft last year.

 

Based on the above, it seems clear to me that Kubiak liked Tyrod a good deal. I look at Kubiak and Dennison as one in the same as they have been together for so long. Denver went after Tyrod twice when Dennison was OC there, he must have been on same page with Kubiak.

 

Now if you believe all that, McDermott goes ahead and hires an OC that has worked with Tyrod and likes him as a QB. He knows what Dennison thinks about tyrod during their interviews. McDermott must have agreed with Dennison's assessment of tyrod or else he does not hire him. To me it is clear that Whaley wants to move on (seems to be enamored by Cardale) and the HC and OC would like to keep Tyrod. Again, this all seems pretty logical but it is still just guess work.

[Wayne Arnold]

With respect to the highlighted area your statement is what my point is. If there is a disagreement between the GM and the HC on this critical issue and the HC's position prevails that is a clear indication that the GM's authority has been eroded.

 

Where I disagree with you is if the GM believes that a player is not worth his contract then it should be the responsibility of the GM to make the final determination. Of course the GM is going to consult with the HC but in normal circumstances the GM has the final say on the roster while the HC determines how to use the roster.

 

If that is the setup here where the HC's view trumps the GM's view on who should be on the roster then it is inevitably going to be a cause of friction. I'm not talking about the normal discussions on personnel matter that include disagreements but the on the key issue of who has the final say in assembling the roster.

 

My point is simply if this setup as described is true I find it very troubling.

 

If McDermott and his coaching staff want Tyrod to be the quarterback and Whaley is pushing back then Whaley is being an ass. That's the bottom line.

[Domdab99]

The whole front office needs to go. They needed to go 3 years ago.

[K-9]

Nothing concrete, just a few clues.(1) there were some reports from Baltimore that Tyrod and Dennison had a good relationship and Kubiak praised Taylor for picking up his system (2) when Kubiak goes to Denver he tries signing Tyrod in FA, (3) after Manning retires reports surfaced in Denver again that Denver was interested in trading for Tyrod at the draft last year.

Based on the above, it seems clear to me that Kubiak liked Tyrod a good deal. I look at Kubiak and Dennison as one in the same as they have been together for so long. Denver went after Tyrod twice when Dennison was OC there, he must have been on same page with Kubiak.

Now if you believe all that, McDermott goes ahead and hires an OC that has worked with Tyrod and likes him as a QB. He knows what Dennison thinks about tyrod during their interviews. McDermott must have agreed with Dennison's assessment of tyrod or else he does not hire him. To me it is clear that Whaley wants to move on (seems to be enamored by Cardale) and the HC and OC would like to keep Tyrod. Again, this all seems pretty logical but it is still just guess work.

Nothing concrete, just a few clues.(1) there were some reports from Baltimore that Tyrod and Dennison had a good relationship and Kubiak praised Taylor for picking up his system (2) when Kubiak goes to Denver he tries signing Tyrod in FA, (3) after Manning retires reports surfaced in Denver again that Denver was interested in trading for Tyrod at the draft last year.

Based on the above, it seems clear to me that Kubiak liked Tyrod a good deal. I look at Kubiak and Dennison as one in the same as they have been together for so long. Denver went after Tyrod twice when Dennison was OC there, he must have been on same page with Kubiak.

Now if you believe all that, McDermott goes ahead and hires an OC that has worked with Tyrod and likes him as a QB. He knows what Dennison thinks about tyrod during their interviews. McDermott must have agreed with Dennison's assessment of tyrod or else he does not hire him. To me it is clear that Whaley wants to move on (seems to be enamored by Cardale) and the HC and OC would like to keep Tyrod. Again, this all seems pretty logical but it is still just guess work.

Great points and nicely laid out. Makes a ton of sense.

 

The thing I can't get past is if Whaley is so steadfast in his belief that TT has to go as has been rumored since the Pittsburgh game, then why didn't he pull the chord the day after the season ended? Instead he deferred the decision to whomever the new HC would be. And for good reason because that makes the most sense.

 

If Whaley was handcuffed by his superiors and not allowed to cut TT and he isn't happy about that, then he won't be here much longer. There is just no evidence of that being the case though.

[John from Riverside]

Great points and nicely laid out. Makes a ton of sense.

 

The thing I can't get past is if Whaley is so steadfast in his belief that TT has to go as has been rumored since the Pittsburgh game, then why didn't he pull the chord the day after the season ended? Instead he deferred the decision to whomever the new HC would be. And for good reason because that makes the most sense.

 

If Whaley was handcuffed by his superiors and not allowed to cut TT and he isn't happy about that, then he won't be here much longer. There is just no evidence of that being the case though.

It has to be the contract....maybe Whaley thought he could get TT to redo it and is encountering resistance

[Turk71]

It has to be the contract....maybe Whaley thought he could get TT to redo it and is encountering resistance

Ironic when you consider the extension was unnecessary at the time and Whaley is the one who wrote it.

[DefenseWins]

Cmon folks... It's one thing to say that a new coach will "have input" into who his QB will be. In the end though the GM makes the final call on who will be on the roster. I am no fan of Whaley. I think he made a terrible decision trading for and drafting Watkins. But this is the way it has to be. That is the job of the GM - to make and be held responsible for the future of the team. I think that Whaley deferred to Rex when he brought in TT. I think Rex was the driving force that brought TT to the Bills in the first place. My guess is that like many of us fans, Rex knew from the start that EJ was not going to cut it and wanted a QB who he thought he had the best chance to win with. Now that Rex is gone, Whaley is probably convinced after seeing TT's play that he is NOT the answer and it is time to move on. Once you determine that, it would be foolish to pay TT $15 million per year when you can draft a youngster who can hopefully grow into the kind of QB this team needs and at a much cheaper salary. In the meantime you pick up a cheaper "bridge QB" to hold the seat warm for the youngster. Most, if not all QB's being drafted these days, are not ready to start on day one. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't draft one just because it will take time to develop him...

[CommonCents]

So we hammer Whaley when he wants to take the short term reload and win now decisions and when he wants to step back and look big picture we hammer him.

I have been hammering his patch work approach for awhile now, I'm fine with the Bills taking a step back but is Whaley the guy to lead that movement? Do the Pegula's have the patience and discipline to let the coach and gm figuere it out? Lots of questions and no certain answers. They are good at doing one thing...keeping it interesting. My biggest hope is that Terry and Kim admitted fault with the Rex hire and are going to change their approach forward.

[8-8 Forever?]

Makes sense that they are divided. there is no clear cut decision... TT's pretty good, the new coach dreads starting over with a FA or rookie in his first year. The GM is being rational. The owner is closer to the coach he just hired, etc. This will be a mess. Pegs is meddling, just like Snyder does down here in DC . could be some disfunction here, no surprise there. Should have hired ALynn and and the Jax HC for DC, kept TT and been done with it. But no, lets blow it up and..... 3 more years of suck

[folz]

maybe it's just me..but you'd think they would have established a plan and everyone got their opinions out and agreed upon when they hired Seany McD. All this speculation is the media just being the media.

 

7th post of this thread, astb41 nailed it.

 

Does anyone really think that QB wasn't the very first issue they talked to McDermott about once his interview focused on the Bills team and players? If Coach had such a differing opinion on Tyrod from the FO, why would they hire him? They wouldn't. They would find a coach who shared their same vision. What could have happened in the 7 weeks since McDermott was hired to make them no longer agree? Just because they haven't announced anything to the public doesn't mean that they haven't already made their decision, nor does it mean that they are fighting over the decision. Pure speculation.