EJ Manuel

[3rdand12]

 

Nix was three sheets towards retirement at the point where "they" passed on Wilson and subsequently had to blow a pick on EJ.

 

Rex's only blessing so far was making Whaley go after TT.

Having TT in Buffalo might be a blessing indeed.

Being a New Era and such.

[TheFunPolice]

EJ has the first round curse.

 

I think he could be a very good backup and have a nice long career as a #2 guy. Those QBs are few and far between and very much needed in the league.

 

He could make some nice $ not get hurt very much and be appreciated as a great team guy who could play a few games if needed.

 

However, since he was a 1st round pick none of that is going to be good enough.

[prissythecat]

 

 

I always admired the way GB would just draft and develop Qbs. I'm in favor of the Bills drafting another qb next year.

 

Which QBs have been drafted and developed by Green Bay ? Brian Brohm, Matt Flynn, Graham Harrell? Certainly some blue chip guys lol.

[BilLions]

I remain one of his biggest fans. I mean even Bret Favre had games like the one against the Jaguars, right?

 

But he still cannot hit a WR down the sidelines. That has always stuck out as strange to me.

[Nanker]

Yep. Cool thread though.

Yep. It's been nearly two whole days without a good EJ bashing thread. Some things never change.

[bigK14094]

I watched the game......extended action for EJ. I have been watching him four years now.......he kept his head mostly against Washington. But, his long throws were bad....he has never been able to throw the long ball accurately like TT. He still misses by 5-10 yards. A strong arm....YES....and accurate arm, NO. Sooooooohe will be our backup this year....but I am not sure he gives our bills a chance to win........here in Buffalo, he will never live down the meltdown in London against the Jags. (even though he brought the bills back and they had a chance to pull it out at the end) EJ is playing out the contract here....and I wish him good luck where ever he lands next year. Always a class act...he just doesn't have #1 skills in the NFL.

 

I saw Bill Polian's comments on ESPN just after the Bills brain trust drafted EJ. Polian was beside himself, calling EJ a project etc etc. Turns out Polian was correct....but the alternative...Gino of the Jets was probabily a worse choice. The Bills just drafted a first round QB in a bad QB year. Shows front office weakness....Polian knew, none of the Bills brain trust knew.

[The Wiz]

Which QBs have been drafted and developed by Green Bay ? Brian Brohm, Matt Flynn, Graham Harrell? Certainly some blue chip guys lol.

Discount double check!

[prissythecat]

Discount double check!

 

That guy was ready to go day one. Only reason he sat was another Hall of Fame QB being in front of him.

[C.Biscuit97]

Which QBs have been drafted and developed by Green Bay ? Brian Brohm, Matt Flynn, Graham Harrell? Certainly some blue chip guys lol.

Wow, your football knowledge is blue chip. Try Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, and some Favre guy. Not one of these guys was picked with a 1st round pick and all became decent to good starters in the league.

I watched the game......extended action for EJ. I have been watching him four years now.......he kept his head mostly against Washington. But, his long throws were bad....he has never been able to throw the long ball accurately like TT. He still misses by 5-10 yards. A strong arm....YES....and accurate arm, NO. Sooooooohe will be our backup this year....but I am not sure he gives our bills a chance to win........here in Buffalo, he will never live down the meltdown in London against the Jags. (even though he brought the bills back and they had a chance to pull it out at the end) EJ is playing out the contract here....and I wish him good luck where ever he lands next year. Always a class act...he just doesn't have #1 skills in the NFL.

 

I saw Bill Polian's comments on ESPN just after the Bills brain trust drafted EJ. Polian was beside himself, calling EJ a project etc etc. Turns out Polian was correct....but the alternative...Gino of the Jets was probabily a worse choice. The Bills just drafted a first round QB in a bad QB year. Shows front office weakness....Polian knew, none of the Bills brain trust knew.

He threw one long pass the entire game. And is this the Polian who basically built Indy on one player. And when that one player went down, they went 1-15. He crushed it drafting Qbs (well when he got to pick them with top 5 overall picks!).

[prissythecat]

Wow, your football knowledge is blue chip. Try Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, and some Favre guy. Not one of these guys was picked with a 1st round pick and all became decent to good starters ....

 

 

Hmmm. Favre was acquired by the Packers in a trade a year or so after he got drafted so he wasn't a Packers pick. The other QBs you cite are ancient history and are from a different management / coaching regime compared to the Ted Thompson / Mike McCarthy era .

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Which QBs have been drafted and developed by Green Bay ? Brian Brohm, Matt Flynn, Graham Harrell? Certainly some blue chip guys lol.

 

Um, the obvious answer, Aaron Rodgers?

[Mr. WEO]

Wow, your football knowledge is blue chip.

 

And is this the Polian who basically built Indy on one player. And when that one player went down, they went 1-15.

 

The irony meter just broke.

 

Try E. James, Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney, Dallas Clark, Bob Sanders, Robert Mathis, Antoine Bethea, Pat McAfee, and a bunch of O-linemen (Ryan Diem) who started/contributed right away, as well as role players like Austin Collie.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

That guy was ready to go day one. Only reason he sat was another Hall of Fame QB being in front of him.

 

That's actually not what Rodgers and other QB guru types say - they say his passing skill and game knowledge both developed considerably during his years on the bench. But you can assert whatever you like because it can never be proven or disproven.

 

I think all this is missing the telling point. When GB traded for Favre, they had an established QB who had set franchise records and won playoffs, Don Majkowski (but also suffered from injury) and also had acquired Mike Tomczak from the Bears. They had Favre when they drafted Hasselbeck. They had Favre when they drafted Rodgers, they could afford to let him sit. They had Rodgers when they drafted Brohm, they could afford a dud.

 

Historically, something like 50% of QB drafted in the 1st round don't become starters and it goes down to 30% at the top of the 2nd round and falls rapidly. The point isn't that a team should be admired because every draft choice they make at QB proves out. The point is that they're taking their shots, and taking them before they need to, so that they don't have to succeed.

 

That's the real problem with the EJ draft choice. By waiting until they were sure Fitz wouldn't work for them, the Bills put themselves in a position where they needed their QB draftee to work out and they needed to draft in a weak class. By releasing Fitz and trying to replace him with the oft-injured and beaten on Kolb, they put EJ in a position where he needed to succeed immediately. If the Bills had been drafting QB all along, people could probably criticize their choices saying "yeah, who have they succeeded with?" but by waiting to draft until they really needed a guy, they put themselves in position to fail.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Name one other qb available that would be a better backup....there isn't one! What the hell do you people want out of this guy?

I agree that it appears EJ is going to be a decent backup this season. Take away 5 mins in the Jax game and he wasn't terrible in that role last year.

It's the people who still are trying to stir the pot between him and Taylor, that are annoying. I have a feeling these people are probably just pot stirrers.

Edited August 28, 2016 by atlbillsfan1975

[jms62]

We need to move on from EJ cause we need Cardale Jones to be ready to assume #2 when EJ's rookie contract runs out. We are 4 years in and if he is still looking like a deer in the headlights I think odds are that isnt going to magically change. All of you working for the social media team for the PR firm he hired have done a good job but didnt have much to work with. Kudos to you.

[The Wiz]

I agree that it appears EJ is going to be a decent backup this season. Take away 5 mins in the Jax game and he wasn't terrible in that role last year.

It's the people who still are trying to stir the pot between him and Taylor, that are annoying. I have a feeling these people are probably just pot stirrers.

bunch of cotton headed ninny muggins.

[The Frankish Reich]

I agree that it appears EJ is going to be a decent backup this season. Take away 5 mins in the Jax game and he wasn't terrible in that role last year.

It's the people who still are trying to stir the pot between him and Taylor, that are annoying. I have a feeling these people are probably just pot stirrers.

I just suffered through the third Broncos preseason game, which tells you more about my life (Saturday night? I really had nothing better to do?) than it does about anything else. Trevor Siemien is well on the way to starting Game 1 against the Panthers. He looked ... marginally adequate. EJ would easily beat him out. And those are our SB champs, still in a great position to win the division and maybe more because the defense is that good, and the receiving corps is that good too. One thought kept going through my mind watching the game: the Bills are in a fortunate QB position relative to a lot of teams ...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I watched the game......extended action for EJ. I have been watching him four years now.......he kept his head mostly against Washington. But, his long throws were bad....he has never been able to throw the long ball accurately like TT. He still misses by 5-10 yards. A strong arm....YES....and accurate arm, NO. Sooooooohe will be our backup this year....but I am not sure he gives our bills a chance to win........here in Buffalo, he will never live down the meltdown in London against the Jags. (even though he brought the bills back and they had a chance to pull it out at the end) EJ is playing out the contract here....and I wish him good luck where ever he lands next year. Always a class act...he just doesn't have #1 skills in the NFL.

 

I saw Bill Polian's comments on ESPN just after the Bills brain trust drafted EJ. Polian was beside himself, calling EJ a project etc etc. Turns out Polian was correct....but the alternative...Gino of the Jets was probabily a worse choice. The Bills just drafted a first round QB in a bad QB year. Shows front office weakness....Polian knew, none of the Bills brain trust knew.

That QB class is looking flat out horrendous. EJ geno and Zac Desert are all competing for the best QB from that class

[Freddie's Dead]

I was outta town on Friday, just watched the DVR of the game. I don't understand the EJ haterz, because from where I'm sitting, he played a good to great game. Pocket presence? He eluded (alluded for the grammatically challenged) the rush at least 6 times that I counted, slipping tackles and making some big gains with his feet (holding call on JCP was total BS). EJ only had a pocket on a handful of plays in the 2nd half. That throw to JCP on the 8-yd line of the last drive was absolutely perfect, just over the arms of the Native American's defender and only where JCP could catch it. Little dropped at least 3 balls I counted (memo to Little, it's the NFL, you have to catch non-room-service passes). Dez Lewis? C'mon man.

 

If that's the kind of play we can expect from our backup QB, then we're in great shape. We were supposably the team with the worst backup QB situation in the league. EJ has now clearly outplayed 3 NFL team's backups, so we're at worst 29th. Now if only the defense can learn to tackle....

Edited August 28, 2016 by Freddie's Dead

[The Frankish Reich]

I was outta town on Friday, just watched the DVR of the game. I don't understand the EJ haterz, because from where I'm sitting, he played a good to great game. Pocket presence? He eluded (alluded for the grammatically challenged) the rush at least 6 times that I counted, slipping tackles and making some big gains with his feet (holding call on JCP was total BS). EJ only had a pocket on a handful of plays in the 2nd half. That throw to JCP on the 8-yd line of the last drive was absolutely perfect, just over the arms of the Native American's defender and only where JCP could catch it. Little dropped at least 3 balls I counted (memo to Little, it's the NFL, you have to catch non-room-service passes). Dez Lewis? C'mon man.

 

If that's the kind of play we can expect from our backup QB, then we're in great shape. We were supposably the team with the worst backup QB situation in the league. EJ has now clearly outplayed 3 NFL team's backups, so we're at worst 29th. Now if only the defense can learn to tackle....

I saw the same thing. Look, the Bills -- like pretty much every other NFL team -- are up the proverbial crap creek without a paddle if their starter goes down for an extended period. That's kind of a given in this league. But would I be more comfortable (still uncomfortable, but more comfortable) with EJ starting than, say, Geno Smith? Sure.

[Wayne Arnold]

We need to move on from EJ cause we need Cardale Jones to be ready to assume #2 when EJ's rookie contract runs out. We are 4 years in and if he is still looking like a deer in the headlights I think odds are that isnt going to magically change. All of you working for the social media team for the PR firm he hired have done a good job but didnt have much to work with. Kudos to you.

 

How was EJ a deer in the headlights? He performed very well on Friday and led the team to a come-from-behind win.

[Hanoverbills]

If you insist..

 

Texans, he sucked. There were reasons he sucked, some outside of his control, but he was really bad on his own too.

 

Bengals, managed to put up 14 points in meaningful time. Fun fact about that game. 10 of EJ's completions came in the last two drives of garbage time down 20 points 10 minutes to go. He padded those stats against prevent. He stunk. Defense also stunk, but I digress.

 

Jags absolutely.

 

Then you start to take a look at other games and a clear picture forms. We beat Chicago, but EEeeeeeJjjjj only had to pass 22 times, and only passed for 173 yards. He didn't puke on his shoes, but it was hardly a stellar performance (not saying you think it was, but usually QB's worth a damn have some very good to great games at least once in a while).

 

Miami in 2014, similar story. Crouching offense, hidden EJ passing only 26 times.

 

Stunk vs Baltimore. TB. 1st Jets game. Steelers. Arguably Jags game.

 

The way I see it, EJ's best two games were his first two, some folks fell in love, and those same folks have been fighting a losing battle about EEEEEeeeeeeeeJJJJJJjjjjj since. First it was the hurry up O. Then it was Dougie Marrone sabotaging EJ by playing a inferior QB in Orton (lol on that one, in hindsight). Then it was EEeeeeeeeJJJJJjjjjj was gonna really start to develop with a real coaching staff in GRo (he dominated that Steelers preseason game), which resulted in 0-2 and EJ's worst game as a QB in his entire career and now the story is that he's not the worst back-up of all time. I kid you not, the same people have made every single one of these arguments since 2013. So when they say now that everyone who said EJ is garbage looks silly, I can't help but pipe up. They're batting .000 on the last 3 years of EEEEEEEEeeeeeeJJJJJjjjjjj predictions, but did you see that last preseason game?

You talked about Miami game. You know that Taylor only average 27 att. per game last year. Taylor threw three TDs againts NE prevent defense after NE got a big lead. Taylor had three int. and a fumble in that game. Tennessee game, we won last year Taylor had like 100 yds yards passing and we won that game. How did Taylor become a starter. That should all mean that he is a bad QB. You know that we were 3 wins and 6 losts when Taylor att. more than 27 passes.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Hanoverbills

[jms62]

How was EJ a deer in the headlights? He performed very well on Friday and led the team to a come-from-behind win.

Wow. Just wow. Obviously they aren't even training the Interns any more.

[Nanker]

I agree that it appears EJ is going to be a decent backup this season. Take away 5 mins in the Jax game and he wasn't terrible in that role last year.

It's the people who still are trying to stir the pot between him and Taylor, that are annoying. I have a feeling these people are probably just pot stirrers smokers.

Fixed it for you.

[billykaykay]

Start games or be a starter? He isn't getting a starting job anywhere in the NFL now. If he plays 6 games or so and looks good someone may add him to be the QB. The only places that could happen though are SF, Cleveland & the Jets. Every other team either has their QB or has just drafted their QB. Cleveland probably adds theirs next year with those 2 early picks.

Dallas ????

[Nihilarian]

Wow, your football knowledge is blue chip. Try Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, and some Favre guy. Not one of these guys was picked with a 1st round pick and all became decent to good starters in the league.

 

He threw one long pass the entire game. And is this the Polian who basically built Indy on one player. And when that one player went down, they went 1-15. He crushed it drafting Qbs (well when he got to pick them with top 5 overall picks!).

My opinion is Polian purposely had the team tank to get Andrew Luck, a once in a decade type player.

 

When you look back at the Colts in the 2011 offseason all he had on the roster were inexperienced scrubs at QB (Curtis painter 0 starts & Dan Orlovsky from Detroit) and he didn't bring in an established veteran QB until two weeks before the season started in Kerry Collins. This is the same time that Peyton's longtime mentor Tom Moore retired from the team so the OC in Clyde Christensen only stayed as OC through 2011 and then he was replaced by Bruce Arians the next year.

 

Curtis Painter 0-8

Dan Orlovsky 2-3

Kerry Collins 0-3

 

What's interesting is that Collins started the first three games and then was replaced by Painter who didn't have much playing experience. So, the Colts were already 0-11 before the guy who actually had a chance to wins some games for them got a start. It cost him his job but Polian got his QB.

[FireChan]

You talked about Miami game. You know that Taylor only average 27 att. per game last year. Taylor threw three TDs againts NE prevent defense after NE got a big lead. Taylor had three int. and a fumble in that game. Tennessee game, we won last year Taylor had like 100 yds yards passing and we won that game. How did Taylor become a starter. That should all mean that he is a bad QB. You know that we were 3 wins and 6 losts when Taylor att. more than 27 passes.

Deflection. Overruled.

 

Just like the "Polian sucks," or "Aaron Rodgers developed!" deflections. EJ sucks. Let's stay on that point.

[Kirby Jackson]

Dallas ????

Nope

 

Who knows if Dak will keep it up but he's had one of the best preseasons of all-time. They certainly wouldn't give EJ the chance to play ahead of Dak. My guess is they add someone like Sanchez to backup Dak.

[Big Gun]

 

How was EJ a deer in the headlights? He performed very well on Friday and led the team to a come-from-behind win.

He did? I must have missed the 5th quarter because at the end of 4 quarters the Redskins were winning. Who knew!

[C.Biscuit97]

 

The irony meter just broke.

 

Try E. James, Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney, Dallas Clark, Bob Sanders, Robert Mathis, Antoine Bethea, Pat McAfee, and a bunch of O-linemen (Ryan Diem) who started/contributed right away, as well as role players like Austin Collie.

And most of those guys were players on a team that went 1-15 without one player.

 

As bad as the Bills have drafted, they could win 6-7 games starting Losman and Edwards. Polian crushed it with his Painter and Sgori picks.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Then you start to take a look at other games and a clear picture forms. We beat Chicago, but EEeeeeeJjjjj only had to pass 22 times, and only passed for 173 yards. He didn't puke on his shoes, but it was hardly a stellar performance (not saying you think it was, but usually QB's worth a damn have some very good to great games at least once in a while).

 

Not to whizz on anyone's biscuit and certainly not to argue that the QB depth chart should be changed, but we do realize that in 5 of the 8 games Tyrod won last year, he passed less than 20 times for an average of less than 180 yards? In the other three games he won, he passed less than 30 times for an average of about 200 yards? The 6 games where he passed more than 30 times, we lost, and never has he put up more than 300 yards.

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what the standard of good/promising QBing vs suckitude is here. I would say fair is fair, and if you're going to talk about how EEeeeeeJjjjj "only" had to pass 22 yards and "only" passed for 173 yards, or if the standard for a QB worth a damn is to pass >30 times for 300 yds at least occasionally, then by those standards we still don't have a QB worth a damn.

 

Me, I thought EJ has had some good games mixed in with some awful games, and I think Taylor is fun to watch and overall shows a higher level of QB play and more promise, but neither of them meet a gunslinger QB standard.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Hopeful

[3rdand12]

 

That's actually not what Rodgers and other QB guru types say - they say his passing skill and game knowledge both developed considerably during his years on the bench. But you can assert whatever you like because it can never be proven or disproven.

 

I think all this is missing the telling point. When GB traded for Favre, they had an established QB who had set franchise records and won playoffs, Don Majkowski (but also suffered from injury) and also had acquired Mike Tomczak from the Bears. They had Favre when they drafted Hasselbeck. They had Favre when they drafted Rodgers, they could afford to let him sit. They had Rodgers when they drafted Brohm, they could afford a dud.

 

Historically, something like 50% of QB drafted in the 1st round don't become starters and it goes down to 30% at the top of the 2nd round and falls rapidly. The point isn't that a team should be admired because every draft choice they make at QB proves out. The point is that they're taking their shots, and taking them before they need to, so that they don't have to succeed.

 

That's the real problem with the EJ draft choice. By waiting until they were sure Fitz wouldn't work for them, the Bills put themselves in a position where they needed their QB draftee to work out and they needed to draft in a weak class. By releasing Fitz and trying to replace him with the oft-injured and beaten on Kolb, they put EJ in a position where he needed to succeed immediately. If the Bills had been drafting QB all along, people could probably criticize their choices saying "yeah, who have they succeeded with?" but by waiting to draft until they really needed a guy, they put themselves in position to fail.

sums it up rather well i think. and why i was delighted bills drafted Cardale.

Next year they should spy another.

Even if Bills do not "need" one, if they find a gem there will be value associated. and hence trade leverage. Eagles might have that now. But do it with rookies contracts and someone looks genius here

[FireChan]

 

Not to whizz on anyone's biscuit and certainly not to argue that the QB depth chart should be changed, but we do realize that in 5 of the 8 games Tyrod won last year, he passed less than 20 times for an average of less than 180 yards? In the other three games he won, he passed less than 30 times for an average of about 200 yards? The 6 games where he passed more than 30 times, we lost, and never has he put up more than 300 yards.

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what the standard of good/promising QBing vs suckitude is here. I would say fair is fair, and if you're going to talk about how EEeeeeeJjjjj "only" had to pass 22 yards and "only" passed for 173 yards, or if the standard for a QB worth a damn is to pass >30 times for 300 yds at least occasionally, then by those standards we still don't have a QB worth a damn.

 

Me, I thought EJ has had some good games mixed in with some awful games, and I think Taylor is fun to watch and overall shows a higher level of QB play and more promise, but neither of them meet a gunslinger QB standard.

Tyrod is not germane in this discussion.

 

But to answer your question, yes I do address that, and my opinion of Tyrod's ability as a QB is consistent with my position on EJ.

[Mr. WEO]

And most of those guys were players on a team that went 1-15 without one player.

 

As bad as the Bills have drafted, they could win 6-7 games starting Losman and Edwards. Polian crushed it with his Painter and Sgori picks.

 

Look, you said Polian built a team on one guy--a ridiculous statement, as he drafted a bunch of great players as well. One WR is in the HOF, anther might join him. James has been on the ballot and is a legit candidate.

 

And now you are condemning Polian's Indy career because he saw Luck coming and the deteriorating Manning going---and secured for that franchise 2 generational QBs?? How is that not a stroke of genius?? What are you thinking? It never occurred to you that this was a good plan?

Edited August 28, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[atlbillsfan1975]

Fixed it for you.

Ha! Could be. We are lucky to have EJ as a back up.

[Nihilarian]

 

Not to whizz on anyone's biscuit and certainly not to argue that the QB depth chart should be changed, but we do realize that in 5 of the 8 games Tyrod won last year, he passed less than 20 times for an average of less than 180 yards? In the other three games he won, he passed less than 30 times for an average of about 200 yards? The 6 games where he passed more than 30 times, we lost, and never has he put up more than 300 yards.

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what the standard of good/promising QBing vs suckitude is here. I would say fair is fair, and if you're going to talk about how EEeeeeeJjjjj "only" had to pass 22 yards and "only" passed for 173 yards, or if the standard for a QB worth a damn is to pass >30 times for 300 yds at least occasionally, then by those standards we still don't have a QB worth a damn.

 

Me, I thought EJ has had some good games mixed in with some awful games, and I think Taylor is fun to watch and overall shows a higher level of QB play and more promise, but neither of them meet a gunslinger QB standard.

I've been attempting to get this same thought through to some fans and a few won't let it get by their hate for EJ. The simple truth is that a strong run game when it's working, is the best help you can give a young QB and when forced to throw more then they run it, it usually ends in a loss. Eventually down the road, once they have adapted to the scheme and play calls, that young QB should start to develop into a stronger passer who can throw more when needed.

 

EJ was 21 of 39 for 221 yards, 1 INT. while the team ran 30 times for 144 yards which is a decent balance in my view. I think the Bills FO should be pleased with his progress so far. I feel that he would have done better with the starting O-line and Watkins, Woods and Clay in there too.

[/dev/null]

 

How was EJ a deer in the headlights? He performed very well on Friday and led the team to a come-from-behind win.

I caught a replay of the game and 2 days later it's still 21-16 Redskins

[PromoTheRobot]

I was out of the broadcast area last night. The radio broadcast that I was able to get was Washington coverage. They praised the defender on the Gragg hit. QUESTION- Did EJ throw Gragg into trouble? Bad QBs do that and EJ is known for hanging his receivers out to take a big hit.

No.

[Thrivefourfive]

EJ can be as mentally sharp and game ready as anyone that has ever played, but that hitch windup throwing motion will never put him in a position to be a decent NFL QB. It's one of the worst NFL throwing motions I've ever seen.

[Mike in Horseheads]

EJ can be as mentally sharp and game ready as anyone that has ever played, but that hitch windup throwing motion will never put him in a position to be a decent NFL QB. It's one of the worst NFL throwing motions I've ever seen.

Are you a coach, scout or GM?