The Wiz Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 @OmarKelly: I said this 2 weeks ago & I stand by it now. I'd rather have the $7M back than Charles Clay. No shade to Clay. Love him like a play cousin wtf is a " play cousin" - guess I'm behind on the lingo Maybe a play cousin is someone that's related to you but far enough away in relation that you don't see an issue fooling around with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) we are going to see a lot of movement before the snap this season, and plays designed to screw with how and where the defense expects us to attack - and attack is the key word here. from an Xs and Os perspective, we shouldn't consider any of these skill position signings as individual investments - they're a combined investment in a broken offense that left a championship caliber defense out of the playoffs. the last staff thought they could fit the QB to an offense this staff is going to fit an offence to the QB Edited March 18, 2015 by BackInDaDay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 You don't pay a guy 7-8 mil a year cap hit to be a decoy. His numbers absolutely will prove his worth. Anything less than 60 catches a year, 650 yards and 6 TD's will be a disappointment. I don't think these are ridiculous expectations. If they are lower, then DW and RR are not on the same page. Mike Rodak, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smapdi Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I really don't think the Bills overpaid for him. I think some posters dont understand just how much the salary cap has gone up the past few years. The NFL is the zenith of pro sports in America so revenue is through the roof which means the cap increases. It went up 10 million this year and probably will do the same next year. That means over this year & next, teams have an extra 20 million in cap room that didn't exist a decade ago and a cap floor that is steadily rising as well. With the cap floor in place, every NFL team has to spend money so player salaries arw going up. Hell, Kyle Rudolph, who has never had a season as good as Clay's & who has struggled with injuries, got a 5 year / 36 million dollar deal last year. That is pretty much what we're paying Clay. Miami was going to pay him 7 million a year but since we're giving him 7.5, that's over paying?? The kid is 26 years old & is the absolute perfect fit for what Roman and Ryan want to do one offense. I have zero complaints about the deal. Pagula has plenty of money & the Bills have plenty of cap space next season to resign Gilmore ans Dareus before the projected 10 million increase in cap room. I swear some of you just want to complain no matter what this team does. This team finally has a legit GM/coach/owner with a blank check after years of cash to the crap and mediocre, 2nd tier FAs. Enjoy it guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I swear some of you just want to complain no matter what this team does. This team finally has a legit GM/coach/owner with a blank check after years of cash to the crap and mediocre, 2nd tier FAs. Enjoy it guys see.. even Towelie gets it!! Edited March 18, 2015 by BackInDaDay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I really don't think the Bills overpaid for him. I think some posters dont understand just how much the salary cap has gone up the past few years. The NFL is the zenith of pro sports in America so revenue is through the roof which means the cap increases. It went up 10 million this year and probably will do the same next year. That means over this year & next, teams have an extra 20 million in cap room that didn't exist a decade ago and a cap floor that is steadily rising as well. With the cap floor in place, every NFL team has to spend money so player salaries arw going up. Hell, Kyle Rudolph, who has never had a season as good as Clay's & who has struggled with injuries, got a 5 year / 36 million dollar deal last year. That is pretty much what we're paying Clay. Miami was going to pay him 7 million a year but since we're giving him 7.5, that's over paying?? The kid is 26 years old & is the absolute perfect fit for what Roman and Ryan want to do one offense. I have zero complaints about the deal. Pagula has plenty of money & the Bills have plenty of cap space next season to resign Gilmore ans Dareus before the projected 10 million increase in cap room. I swear some of you just want to complain no matter what this team does. This team finally has a legit GM/coach/owner with a blank check after years of cash to the crap and mediocre, 2nd tier FAs. Enjoy it guys if it were a standard issue 7.5, wed probably catch a little flack, 24m in the first 2 years is a lot if things dont work out and will escalate the questions. (still a fan of the signing, but trying to fill in some of the gray area between GREAT! and TERRIBLE!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So based on Mario Williams salary, what should his stats be? 100 tackles, 25 sacks, 10 forced fumbles 5 INTs....he should also probably play on offense considering the money he's making I am not sure what I said in my post that deserves this exaggerated response? Are the numbers I proposed for Clay outrageous? Did I say he has to have 100 catches 1200 yards and 15 TD's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) You don't pay a guy 7-8 mil a year cap hit to be a decoy. His numbers absolutely will prove his worth. Anything less than 60 catches a year, 650 yards and 6 TD's will be a disappointment. I don't think these are ridiculous expectations. If they are lower, then DW and RR are not on the same page. I wouldn't be surprised if it were Roman angling to get Clay, vs Rex. All we can do is look at Roman's history of TE use to get an idea of what to expect from Clay. Will he meet those numbers? I doubt it, simply because the opportunities will be spread out, AND we'll be running a lot. That doesn't mean he's a decoy though, imo. There's one ball for Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Clay, and McCoy. And that's before you get to other guys like Hogan, Goodwin, FredEx, Gragg/Gray. My expectation of Clay isn't in final stats, but if he performs when called upon. Does he make the key block? Does he get open when his number is called? Does he make a play with the ball after catching it? Etc. Vernon Davis, considered one of the better TEs in the league, imo... 2011 - 16 gms, 67 rec, 792 yds, 6 TD 2012 - 16 gms, 41 rec, 548 yds, 5 TD 2013 - 15 gms, 52 rec, 850 yds, 13 TD 2014 - 14 gms, 26 rec, 245 yds, 2 TD Total: 61 gms, 186 rec, 2435 yds, 26 TD Avg 16 game: 48 rec, 639 yds, 7 TD For comparison's sake... taking Clay's last two years, you get a 16 game average of 68 rec, 727 yds, 5 TD Edited March 18, 2015 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Maybe a play cousin is someone that's related to you but far enough away in relation that you don't see an issue fooling around with them. so like a sibling in Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 so like a sibling in Canada?Yea. Or your sister/mother/wife in Arkansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bills offense is going to be "sum is greater than its parts"...we have players that have to be accounted for all over the place...somewhere, someone is going to be open, there is no possible way to cover all these threats... Challenge will be, do we have a QB that can recognize who is going to be open? Actually I think at this point the challenge will be do we have an O Line that can enable those skill players to do what they do best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I am not sure what I said in my post that deserves this exaggerated response? Are the numbers I proposed for Clay outrageous? Did I say he has to have 100 catches 1200 yards and 15 TD's? Sorry, overreaction. I guess my point is stats are not always the true measure of a players contribution to the team. Edited March 18, 2015 by nucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yea. Or your sister/mother/wife in Arkansas. and it's just the one girl standing there, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 so like a sibling in Canada? Hey now..... CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 and it's just the one girl standing there, right? Family tree has no branches....virgin is a girl who can outrun her ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 and it's just the one girl standing there, right?Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Actually I think at this point the challenge will be do we have an O Line that can enable those skill players to do what they do best? Not worried, Kromer will have those guys playing well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if it were Roman angling to get Clay, vs Rex. All we can do is look at Roman's history of TE use to get an idea of what to expect from Clay. I'm almost certain you're correct. Roman is a highly accomplished OC and this is Rex's and Roman's first year together. I see nothing in the tea leaves to suggest Rex feels the need to micromanage Roman's offensive personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not so sure Clay wouldn't have comparable numbers if he had Peyton Manning throwing him the ball for the past three years. Except for TD receptions their numbers actually are pretty similar the last two years, even tho Clay has fewer games played due to injury in 2014. Now that Mr Bortles will be serving it up to Julius instead of Peyton you can expect those TD numbers to go down, and probably be more in line with what Clay will do in Blo (6-8 per is my guess). And Julius can't make that block that will spring McCoy on a game winning touchdown run. Charles Clay can. And Julius can't set up in the backfield. Charles Clay can. Assuming he avoids the injury bug, we did not overpay. Charles Clay is a stud and will functionally be a centerpiece of the Bills O. This is a hugely important move and that's why they are bending over backwards to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Players are worth more to different teams because of the style of offense, other players on that team, how coaches use players, how much cap they have, etc. Clay is worth more to the Bills than almost any other team. Julius Thomas is a far better player as a standard pass catcher TE with a decent QB. But Clay is a much better fit for the Bills who want to confuse defenses with different combinations and formations and motion and a running game/short passing game. That all has to be factored into whether a player is worth it or not. That and the fact that he was an RFA. God I love the internet. Hand wringing and crying over the Bills not getting a talented TE. Bills sign a TE. Hand wringing and crying over the Bills signing a talented TE. You & I must be reading different threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Any updates on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Any updates on this? Check back Sunday night. Lord knows the Fins are going to drag this out until the bitter end- even though they have no plans to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Check back Sunday night. Lord knows the Fins are going to drag this out until the bitter end- even though they have no plans to match. That is likely. They also probably know right now whether they are going to match or not. They have 8m left in cap space, and they may well sign Michael Crabtree who is in for a visit. 7m in cap space is tied up in Clay, and they have several holes to fill. It would hurt the Bills to not know if the Fins were planning on matching it, so the Bills wouldn't know how much they could spend. But the Bills have 16m left without Clay on their and his cap hit is not going to be more than 10. They can sign whomever they want. It's possible if the Fins want to use that 7m they will make a decision earlier than Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Haven't seen one post on Dolphins board saying Miami should match...most say we are overpaying and downplaying how good he is...others say if Dolphins match the front office should be fired for not giving him a better contract offer to prevent this in the fist place... I tend to agree with them. We did overpay, although this could be one of the rare instances where overpaying a player works out. Of course, it could go the other way, but the ink has dried so might as well think positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I tend to agree with them. We did overpay, although this could be one of the rare instances where overpaying a player works out. Of course, it could go the other way, but the ink has dried so might as well think positive. i agree, happy we've got him, but thats a lot of dollar. best case scenario he lives up to the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't be surprised if it were Roman angling to get Clay, vs Rex. All we can do is look at Roman's history of TE use to get an idea of what to expect from Clay. Will he meet those numbers? I doubt it, simply because the opportunities will be spread out, AND we'll be running a lot. That doesn't mean he's a decoy though, imo. There's one ball for Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Clay, and McCoy. And that's before you get to other guys like Hogan, Goodwin, FredEx, Gragg/Gray. My expectation of Clay isn't in final stats, but if he performs when called upon. Does he make the key block? Does he get open when his number is called? Does he make a play with the ball after catching it? Etc. Vernon Davis, considered one of the better TEs in the league, imo... 2011 - 16 gms, 67 rec, 792 yds, 6 TD 2012 - 16 gms, 41 rec, 548 yds, 5 TD 2013 - 15 gms, 52 rec, 850 yds, 13 TD 2014 - 14 gms, 26 rec, 245 yds, 2 TD Total: 61 gms, 186 rec, 2435 yds, 26 TD Avg 16 game: 48 rec, 639 yds, 7 TD For comparison's sake... taking Clay's last two years, you get a 16 game average of 68 rec, 727 yds, 5 TD The bolded part is already proven. watch some film on him from last year. Kid is doing everything ! Baller. as mentioned by some , very well, I might add , that he is a key component to have with Roman/ Kromer. Now Rex's defense can run its disguised style , and so can the Offense. so many weapons to move around! Great group to the widen the field! actually amazing set of playmakers. Nice post ^ go Bills! Edited March 18, 2015 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Just saw a link to a Rodak tweet about Clays contact. I don't have twitter, so maybe somebody can remind Mikey to look up Welkers stats on his last year in Miami. How did that work out for NE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) If Miami matches, the national narrative changes, right? Gronk/Hernandez reincarnation down in Miami? I guess he's only favorably compared to him and worth the money if he is there. It's lazy to compare their contracts anyway. They aren't the same type of player, don't have the same type of QB. Clay is not the best TE, he's just the latest TE to get paid in FA. Flacco got more than some QBs who are better than him too but that was his market value. @pecrawleynfl: Both @greggrosenthal http://t.co/6zpbyWjYANand @ConorTOrr http://t.co/Jo5wQwDax9 are baffled by the Bills' offer to Charles Clay. Edited March 18, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I agree that the narrative probably changes if the teams are reversed, or if any other darling team ( say, the Eagles) made this move. However, it is a fair point to say that if Clay disappoints in Buffalo over the next two years, the money up front will look pretty foolish. It is a gamble for sure, but one I think is warranted with a very high upside for the Bills. I love the agressiveness of the Bills this offseason, just like I loved the agressiveness in going up to get Watkins last year. It could blow up, but no one can say they are not trying. If Miami matches, the national narrative changes, right? Gronk/Hernandez reincarnation down in Miami? I guess he's only favorably compared to him and worth the money if he is there. It's lazy to compare their contracts anyway. They aren't the same type of player, don't have the same type of QB. Clay is not the best TE, he's just the latest TE to get paid in FA. Flacco got more than some QBs who are better than him too but that was his market value. @pecrawleynfl: Both @greggrosenthal http://t.co/6zpbyWjYANand @ConorTOrr http://t.co/Jo5wQwDax9 are baffled by the Bills' offer to Charles Clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yet read this from Rosenthal....mostly the last paragraph http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000479677/article/charles-clay-signs-offer-sheet-with-buffalo-bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yet read this from Rosenthal....mostly the last paragraph http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000479677/article/charles-clay-signs-offer-sheet-with-buffalo-bills I guess he wants to be on both sides, just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yet read this from Rosenthal....mostly the last paragraph http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000479677/article/charles-clay-signs-offer-sheet-with-buffalo-bills hey nucci, i was just about to post your earlier link (above) of Rosenthal the guy's talkng out of both sides of his mouth.. in Yolo's link he's trashing the signing.. forget what i said eralier about the NFL network.. they're just as pencil-necked geeky as espn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) @OmarKelly: I'm THRILLED about the money Buffalo is giving Charles Clay. He works hard & deserves it. But don't pretend you didn't overpay. Omar sounds about as THRILLED as if he just learned his ex who dumped him is dating a better looking, more successful guy. Sure you are, Omar. Edited March 19, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 @OmarKelly: I'm THRILLED about the money Buffalo is giving Charles Clay. He works hard & deserves it. But don't pretend you didn't overpay. Omar sounds about as THRILLED as if he just learned his ex who dumped him is dating a better looking, more successful guy. Sure you are, Omar. That sounds like he knows the Fins are not going to match it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 That sounds like he knows the Fins are not going to match it. Yeah, he's a pretty good weathervane. Or maybe I should say, windsock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Yeah, he's a pretty good weathervane. Or maybe I should say, windsock... :lol: As in windbag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Omar Kelly sounds exactly like Tim Graham. Same person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 @JohnMurphyShow: Complete audio: Joe Rose: Charles Clay is "a real mismatch" http://t.co/xzLsVMHrv8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I have this sinking feeling they are gonna match just to spite us Edited March 19, 2015 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have this sinking feeling they are gonna match just to spite us I don't think so. Seems like they have too many other pressing needs. I wouldn't be shocked if they do, but know it would be in spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts