The Big Cat Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 better? Lol Read option https://t.co/HFXfVrdgTk HNNNNNNNNNNG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp2Warlick Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bills Daily retweeted trey wingo @wingoz 3m3 minutes ago Is Charles Clay really worth 5 years 38 million 20+ guaranteed? Julius Thomas got 24 guaranteed. NOT the same player.. not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 @ChrisTrapasso: Watched all of Charles Clay's 2014 targets last night. Some thoughts... @ChrisTrapasso: He can line up anywhere and succeed. He changes speeds well in his routes, and it really helps him create separation. @ChrisTrapasso: Clay routinely uses an effective shake move to get off the LOS when he's in-line. Pretty reliable hands. @ChrisTrapasso: As a runner, he's deceptively agile (can make defenders miss) & powerful (will run through some tackles). Was utilized on handful of screens @ChrisTrapasso: Dolphins also used Clay on: deep overs, flats, short zone sits, corners and verticals down the seam. Not a super-fast 4.5 TE but can move. @ChrisTrapasso: Didn't watch him as a blocker, but he's truly a movable chess piece on offense who can win as "traditional" TE and certainly after the catch 45] Bills Daily retweeted 45] trey wingo @wingoz 3m3 minutes ago Is Charles Clay really worth 5 years 38 million 20+ guaranteed? Julius Thomas got 24 guaranteed. NOT the same player.. not even close lol that Rodak RTd this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan in MD Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bills Daily retweeted trey wingo @wingoz 3m3 minutes ago Is Charles Clay really worth 5 years 38 million 20+ guaranteed? Julius Thomas got 24 guaranteed. NOT the same player.. not even close I'm not so sure Clay wouldn't have comparable numbers if he had Peyton Manning throwing him the ball for the past three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not so sure Clay wouldn't have comparable numbers if he had Peyton Manning throwing him the ball for the past three years. I bet he would CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Can we start a poll now about who thinks the Fins will match the Bills offer? CBF http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/177088-what-do-you-think-will-happen-with-charles-clay/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bills Daily retweeted trey wingo @wingoz 3m3 minutes ago Is Charles Clay really worth 5 years 38 million 20+ guaranteed? Julius Thomas got 24 guaranteed. NOT the same player.. not even close That's right. They're not the same player. Also, we'll see how JT does not getting passes from Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Very good TE, but he's not worth THAT kind of $. He's streaky, not a good blocker, but when he's on, he's a playmaker. Good luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY315 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Isn't this the number that Jerome Felton will be using? - Here's a fun little snippit from a Dolphins fan perspective. In the comments section from http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/03/17/miami-dolphins-gamble-with-charles-clay-didnt-have-to-happen/ "Rex Ryan will bury Buffalo in bad contracts. I know I am not the only one saying it. Ryan is negotiating contracts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 45] Bills Daily retweeted 45] trey wingo @wingoz 3m3 minutes ago Is Charles Clay really worth 5 years 38 million 20+ guaranteed? Julius Thomas got 24 guaranteed. NOT the same player.. not even close He's right. They aren't the same player. Julius Thomas is a glorified WR. Charles Clay might not be as prolific as a catcher, but he's much more versatile. And i'd understand the tweet if we were paying more than Thomas - but even Wingo cites the guarantee is about 20 percent less with Clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Talk of money players get is ridiculous. NFL makes Billions and have to share a % with the players so many will be making a lot of money. Overpaid....not worth the money......just stupid. I prefer to look at who we acquired. Not their contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smapdi Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I like the signing a lot. Finally gives us a legitimate, starting caliber NFL TE. Clay isn't 6'6" but is very athletic & a much better blocker then Chandler. Clay graded out as the 11th best blocking TE on running plays last season. He gives this offense a ton of versatility & another redzone threat. I dont think the money is that crazy: if you want offensive pass catchers, in their prime, that is the price now a days.. it isn't 1999 anymore. Clay is 26 & only just entering his prime years. I think he can easily finish top 10 & push for top 5 TE numbers. Kyle Rudolph, who's best career season was worse then Clay's 2014, signed for 5 years / 36 million Last year. I'll take Clay over him any day. The cap just increased 10 million & prob will go up another 10 next year. That's just how it's going to be if you want to lock up a young TE with top 10 talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Talk of money players get is ridiculous. NFL makes Billions and have to share a % with the players so many will be making a lot of money. Overpaid....not worth the money......just stupid. I prefer to look at who we acquired. Not their contract. Agreed. Fans looking at player's contracts and kibitzing is like them taking exception to the kind of cleats they wear, or the color of their shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Very good TE, but he's not worth THAT kind of $. He's streaky, not a good blocker, but when he's on, he's a playmaker. Good luck to him. yet Roman and Rex wanted him this badly From all I have read and seen he is worth the investment. 7.5 mil a year is not bad for a starting TE who is mufti dimensional and successful and entering his prime I really fail to understand the negatives of going after the top TE available on the market Talk of money players get is ridiculous. NFL makes Billions and have to share a % with the players so many will be making a lot of money. Overpaid....not worth the money......just stupid. I prefer to look at who we acquired. Not their contract. I pay to watch the players, not to see an owner sit int he box. If the NFL and its owners are going to rake in huge money then the players deserve their piece of the pie SO do American workers in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) yet Roman and Rex wanted him this badly From all I have read and seen he is worth the investment. 7.5 mil a year is not bad for a starting TE who is mufti dimensional and successful and entering his prime I really fail to understand the negatives of going after the top TE available on the market i think the question, which is fair, is that we are paying like he is the top TE on the market most years, but might have fallen closer to 2 (behind thomas), or 3(behind thomas and cameron) available this year depending on what you think of the others. i like the signing, but i think its fair to say we were pretty aggressive to get it done. Edited March 18, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Very good TE, but he's not worth THAT kind of $. He's streaky, not a good blocker, but when he's on, he's a playmaker. Good luck to him. You're worth whatever someone pays you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) @RQUINN619: 2015 NFL Free Agency: What Does Charles Clay Bring to #Bills Offense? http://t.co/fL6mXi6THmvia @TheBillsMafia http://t.co/G59bv0B5uw excellent work by Mr Quinn.. Clay is the Swiss army knife that Roman needs.. he will not only be used as the play's primary option - but as a 'mis-read' to draw defenders away from the primary. you know that Roman is ecstatic over this, and he's the guy that's not gonna sleep until Monday! edit - oh, and thanks Yolo for posting this! Edited March 18, 2015 by BackInDaDay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Players are worth more to different teams because of the style of offense, other players on that team, how coaches use players, how much cap they have, etc. Clay is worth more to the Bills than almost any other team. Julius Thomas is a far better player as a standard pass catcher TE with a decent QB. But Clay is a much better fit for the Bills who want to confuse defenses with different combinations and formations and motion and a running game/short passing game. That all has to be factored into whether a player is worth it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 i think the question, which is fair, is that we are paying like he is the top TE on the market most years, but might have fallen closer to 2 (behind thomas), or 3(behind thomas and cameron) available this year depending on what you think of the others. i like the signing, but i think its fair to say we were pretty aggressive to get it done. our offense is getting much more than a TE with Clay.. another member posted somewhere that Miami may not have realised Clays worth - especially to the right OC, and now has to sleep in the bed they've made Players are worth more to different teams because of the style of offense, other players on that team, how coaches use players, how much cap they have, etc. Clay is worth more to the Bills than almost any other team. Julius Thomas is a far better player as a standard pass catcher TE with a decent QB. But Clay is a much better fit for the Bills who want to confuse defenses with different combinations and formations and motion and a running game/short passing game. That all has to be factored into whether a player is worth it or not. must be reading my mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Players are worth more to different teams because of the style of offense, other players on that team, how coaches use players, how much cap they have, etc. Clay is worth more to the Bills than almost any other team. Julius Thomas is a far better player as a standard pass catcher TE with a decent QB. But Clay is a much better fit for the Bills who want to confuse defenses with different combinations and formations and motion and a running game/short passing game. That all has to be factored into whether a player is worth it or not.it reminds me of Searcy's deal he just got with the Titans. They really needed a safety, it was a poor Safety FA year and a weak Safety draft, and he is getting more gtd # than AW now. Is he better safety than AW? Or even as talented? No one would probably say that. But he's a good player who fits what they want to do on D and it was a position of need to the Titans. It's all relative to the market. Edited March 18, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 been away from this for a bit - what's the down-lo? can miami match without crippling themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 not sure if this has been posted upthread, as I don't have time to read through all the pages, so I apologize in advance: "NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reports that the Dolphins' last offer for Clay was four years for $27 million, including less than $14 million guaranteed. That offer came after Cameron signed." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000479677/article/charles-clay-signs-offer-sheet-with-buffalo-bills So it would appear there is no way he stays with Miami unless they up their offer. We are higher in term, avg. $/yr., and guaranteed $ I believe. To the naysayers, we are going after a multi-faceted TE, a huge position of need for an offense in which he can fit hand in glove - and we hurt Miami in the process. What's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 God I love the internet. Hand wringing and crying over the Bills not getting a talented TE. Bills sign a TE. Hand wringing and crying over the Bills signing a talented TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 not sure if this has been posted upthread, as I don't have time to read through all the pages, so I apologize in advance: "NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reports that the Dolphins' last offer for Clay was four years for $27 million, including less than $14 million guaranteed. That offer came after Cameron signed." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000479677/article/charles-clay-signs-offer-sheet-with-buffalo-bills So it would appear there is no way he stays with Miami unless they up their offer. We are higher in term, avg. $/yr., and guaranteed $ I believe. To the naysayers, we are going after a multi-faceted TE, a huge position of need for an offense in which he can fit hand in glove - and we hurt Miami in the process. What's not to like? yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Well, the modus operandi of Whaley overpaying market value for players he covets has proven to be a consistent pattern. Huge risk/reward philosophy... hit it big you're in the penthouse popping champagne; miss and you're in the shlt house crying in your beer. Whaley's a true riverboat gambler. A thrill-seeker gunning for the hottest commodity cost be damned. I'm personally much more conservative than that, so I cringe when I see what appears on the surface to be reckless decisioning. Sure hope lady luck is with him on this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Well, the modus operandi of Whaley overpaying market value for players he covets has proven to be a consistent pattern. Huge risk/reward philosophy... hit it big you're in the penthouse popping champagne; miss and you're in the shlt house crying in your beer. Whaley's a true riverboat gambler. A thrill-seeker gunning for the hottest commodity cost be damned. I'm personally much more conservative than that, so I cringe when I see what appears on the surface to be reckless decisioning. Sure hope lady luck is with him on this deal. We've been "conservative" for a very long time, and have missed the playoffs for 15 years now. Hell, when was the last time we had a winning record before last year? I'll take some gambling at this point. Maybe our fortunes will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 God I love the internet. Hand wringing and crying over the Bills not getting a talented TE. Bills sign a TE. Hand wringing and crying over the Bills signing a talented TE. haha - very true.. turn off the pencil necked espn geeks who are only interested in vomiting opinions that may 'trend' in social media. if you must get a second 'football' opinion - tune in the nfl network for the big picture.. they usually hit on the pros and cons of how personnel changes actually impact the game Well, the modus operandi of Whaley overpaying market value for players he covets has proven to be a consistent pattern. Huge risk/reward philosophy... hit it big you're in the penthouse popping champagne; miss and you're in the shlt house crying in your beer. Whaley's a true riverboat gambler. A thrill-seeker gunning for the hottest commodity cost be damned. I'm personally much more conservative than that, so I cringe when I see what appears on the surface to be reckless decisioning. Sure hope lady luck is with him on this deal. no gamble here.. see "hand in glove'" remark above.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 That's right. They're not the same player. Also, we'll see how JT does not getting passes from Manning. I'll be very interested to see his production this upcoming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Proud Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I love all the haters around the internet knocking the deal/Clay especially the Miami Herald, Sun-Sentinel, ESPN with their Bills hate/FA jealousy and twisted logic. The Bills are essentially paying him 550K more than the franchise tag that Miami slapped on him for one year but over 5 years. 7.05mil is Miami's offer, Bills are paying 7.6mil over 5. Sorry Miami that you are paying Cameron 7.5mil or 100K less than what Clay is getting and his head is made of glass. Edited March 18, 2015 by Buffalo Proud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 haha - very true.. turn off the pencil necked espn geeks who are only interested in vomiting opinions that may 'trend' in social media. if you must get a second 'football' opinion - tune in the nfl network for the big picture.. they usually hit on the pros and cons of how personnel changes actually impact the game no gamble here.. see "hand in glove'" remark above.. Good article. Read last paragraph...like you said NFL.com; NFL Network people http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000479677/article/charles-clay-signs-offer-sheet-with-buffalo-bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Miami has 5 days to counter....looks like we frontloaded this year to prevent Miami from re-signing him http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/17/bills-sign-charles-clay-to-offer-sheet/ This is another interesting move by Doug Whaley. He is paying really huge dollars for a TE who hasn't really proven he is an elite player. In addition, the player is often injured. Doug Whaley must believe he is in the class of Gronkowski and Graham? Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. Edited March 18, 2015 by Billsguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 This is another interesting move by Doug Whaley. He is paying really huge dollars for a TE who hasn't really proven he is an elite player. In addition, the player is often injured. Doug Whaley must believe he is in the class of Gronkowski and Graham? Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. No, he doesn't care about Gronkowski or Graham...Whaley and his coaches wanted Clay so they got him...Simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 We've been "conservative" for a very long time, and have missed the playoffs for 15 years now. Hell, when was the last time we had a winning record before last year? I'll take some gambling at this point. Maybe our fortunes will change. A big past problem is when we swung, we missed. We took big shots, but until recently they underwhelmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Proud Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) This is another interesting move by Doug Whaley. He is paying really huge dollars for a TE who hasn't really proven he is an elite player. In addition, the player is often injured. Doug Whaley must believe he is in the class of Gronkowski and Graham? Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. Miami paid 100K less for Cameron would you be OK if the Bills had him and his scrambled brains instead? Edited March 18, 2015 by Buffalo Proud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Good article. Read last paragraph...like you said NFL.com; NFL Network people http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000479677/article/charles-clay-signs-offer-sheet-with-buffalo-bills finally got to that last paragraph.. spent a couple minutes admiring the cheerleader. yep, that's what we're talking about.. pretty simple to understand from a 'football' perspective.. ain't my money, so you go get 'em Terry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 finally got to that last paragraph.. spent a couple minutes admiring the cheerleader. yep, that's what we're talking about.. pretty simple to understand from a 'football' perspective.. ain't my money, so you go get 'em Terry! Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Talk of money players get is ridiculous. NFL makes Billions and have to share a % with the players so many will be making a lot of money. Overpaid....not worth the money......just stupid. I prefer to look at who we acquired. Not their contract. Agreed. Fans looking at player's contracts and kibitzing is like them taking exception to the kind of cleats they wear, or the color of their shoes. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) People expecting huge numbers put up by Clay are probably going to be disappointed. Nor will his numbers prove whether or not he is worth it or not. Edited March 18, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 People expecting huge numbers put up by Clay are probably going to be disappointing. Nor will his numbers prove whether or not he is worth it or not.total offensive production and wins will show whether they were all worth it - Shady, Harvin, Clay (Cassel?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 People expecting huge numbers put up by Clay are probably going to be disappointed. Nor will his numbers prove whether or not he is worth it or not. If they enjoy the meal, no one will be questing if the soft drink was too expensive. Actually, even if the Bills win, the normal percentage of negative/critical posters will nit-pick every aspect of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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