Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yolo, as we suspected, Michael Crabtree is visiting the Dolphins today. I suppose that is a teeny sign they will not be matching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yolo, as we suspected, Michael Crabtree is visiting the Dolphins today. I suppose that is a teeny sign they will not be matching.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Well, the modus operandi of Whaley overpaying market value for players he covets has proven to be a consistent pattern. Huge risk/reward philosophy... hit it big you're in the penthouse popping champagne; miss and you're in the shlt house crying in your beer. Â Whaley's a true riverboat gambler. A thrill-seeker gunning for the hottest commodity cost be damned. I'm personally much more conservative than that, so I cringe when I see what appears on the surface to be reckless decisioning. Sure hope lady luck is with him on this deal. I'm scratching my head and trying to recall the players Whaley has overpaid in this,his second FA and draft season and for the life of me, I can't think of one. Brandon Spikes? Chris Williams? There have to be at least several of them for it to be regarded as a "modus operandi," don't you agree? I need a little help here, Negativo. Give me the names of these over payed fat cats please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yolo, as we suspected, Michael Crabtree is visiting the Dolphins today. I suppose that is a teeny sign they will not be matching. If they thought Mike Wallace was a prima donna . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bills offense is going to be "sum is greater than its parts"...we have players that have to be accounted for all over the place...somewhere, someone is going to be open, there is no possible way to cover all these threats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bills offense is going to be "sum is greater than its parts"...we have players that have to be accounted for all over the place...somewhere, someone is going to be open, there is no possible way to cover all these threats... Challenge will be, do we have a QB that can recognize who is going to be open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) People expecting huge numbers put up by Clay are probably going to be disappointed. Nor will his numbers prove whether or not he is worth it or not.  Things we will hear from Murph and Kelso this fall..  Murph: Hand off to McCoy---cut back to the edge, nice seal block by Clay--Shady's at the 40 the 50 the 40 into the secondary brought down after a 32 yard run..  Murph: Taylor fakes the handoff and drops, scans the field, Sammy open at the right side line at the 20 the 15 the 10 -- Touchdown. Mark--he was wide open  Kelso: Murph--the Cowboys couldn't figure out who to cover -- its the pick your poison offense--and that play they stacked for the run -- a lb and SS went with Clay; they also doubled Harvin leaving Sammy one on one.....  No "Stats" for Clay on either play---but he was key in making both happen.. Edited March 18, 2015 by Formerly Joe F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bills offense is going to be "sum is greater than its parts"...we have players that have to be accounted for all over the place...somewhere, someone is going to be open, there is no possible way to cover all these threats... Exactly. It's the same thing, really, as the Bills DL. Teams cannot afford to double team everyone, therefore they double the best of the best, Mario, and it opens up the single teams of Hughes, and often Dareus or Kyle. But those other players are very good in their own right and make a lot of plays. Â With McCoy running/receiving, Watkins/Woods/Harvin in three wides, and Clay is various formations and roles, defenses won't know if we are running or passing, and have to pick their poison on who to double team. Watkins is going to have a lot of one on ones, as will Clay, as will Harvin. Â Rex is our HC of course, and played a huge role in this, but Roman now may be our most important coach. If he's really good at designing an offense, and utilizing his player's talents, and calling plays at the right times, we are going to be dangerous on both sides of the ball. If he's not, we will be wasting a lot of talent and money. Â Miami better not match the offer sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yolo, as we suspected, Michael Crabtree is visiting the Dolphins today. I suppose that is a teeny sign they will not be matching. Wouldn't be surprised if Tannenbaum brings in Spikes as retribution....Please sign Crabtree for about $8 million a year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Wouldn't be surprised if Tannenbaum brings in Spikes as retribution....Please sign Crabtree for about $8 million a year....It's Crabtree's first visit. That should tell you something. Also Schefter with this... Then why did they take Sanchez at 5 when Crab was still there?@AdamSchefter: When Michael Crabtree came out in 2009, he was No. 1 player on Jets' board. Jets former GM Mike Tannenbaum now in MIA. Crabtree visiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Does anyone else think we may still draft a TE in round 2 or 3? Â Â Â CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Man, I'm getting excited about this year's squad. Can you imagine if we added Jim Kelly in his prime to this? Â :onfire!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Does anyone else think we may still draft a TE in round 2 or 3? Â Â Â CBF maybe in the 5th IMO Edited March 18, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 It's Crabtree's first visit. That should tell you something. Also Schefter with this... Then why did they take Sanchez at 5 when Crab was still there? @AdamSchefter: When Michael Crabtree came out in 2009, he was No. 1 player on Jets' board. Jets former GM Mike Tannenbaum now in MIA. Crabtree visiting. picking for need over BPA, perhaps? I cant imagine they had sanchez at the top, but they had to get a qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 picking for need over BPA, perhaps? I cant imagine they had sanchez at the top, but they had to get a qb. No one actually takes BPA just because that guy is the BPA. Every pick is the exact same scenario. The #1 guy on your board versus the #1 guy at various positions of need versus the kind of team you have and other players you have. The Jets were going to run the ball, and they had a #1 WR already. I wouldn't have drafted Sanchez that high but it made sense if they really liked him, even if they had Crabtree rated higher. It also matters how much higher they had him rated than their 2 or 3 guy. I would bet Sanchez may not have been in their top ten overall, but was the best pick in their minds because they needed a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Miami isn't matching this deal. Clay will be the 4th highest paid TE in the league with this deal ($7.6M/year). I don't see them paying both Clay and Jordan Cameron, who is close to the same number ($7.5M/year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Miami isn't matching this deal. Clay will be the 4th highest paid TE in the league with this deal ($7.6M/year). I don't see them paying both Clay and Jordan Cameron, who is close to the same number ($7.5M/year). My only worry is that Michael Silver reported today that the Dolphins final/best offer to Clay came after the Jordan Cameron signing. That can mean different things but we don't know what they are. It could mean that they genuinely do want to run a two TE offense and will hold their nose but match the Bills deal. Â It could also mean (and more likely mean) that they have a ceiling on how much they are willing to pay Clay or two TEs and the Bills offer exceeds it substantially so they will not match. To me, they already showed their hand that 7m was all they would pay by the transition tag. They could have secured him with 8m with the franchise tag. Â I think the Bills know the Fins are not matching. But I will be a lot happier when it's official. I think there is a chance they will. Plus they can cut Cameron next year with little pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 ...Miami better not match the offer sheet. I honestly don't see how they can at this point. Committing $19m plus to the TE position for the season? With all that roster manipulation yet to accomplish? Â Although it would be funny to watch the about face by the scribes and fans who've been proclaiming that he's just not worth it since he signed the offer sheet. Â GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 It's Crabtree's first visit. That should tell you something. Also Schefter with this... Then why did they take Sanchez at 5 when Crab was still there? @AdamSchefter: When Michael Crabtree came out in 2009, he was No. 1 player on Jets' board. Jets former GM Mike Tannenbaum now in MIA. Crabtree visiting. That's kind of funny since the Jets traded up to select Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 God I love the internet. Â Hand wringing and crying over the Bills not getting a talented TE. Â Bills sign a TE. Â Hand wringing and crying over the Bills signing a talented TE. you nailed it Dork, my thoughts exactly.....we can't win for losing, as they say Well, the modus operandi of Whaley overpaying market value for players he covets has proven to be a consistent pattern. Huge risk/reward philosophy... hit it big you're in the penthouse popping champagne; miss and you're in the shlt house crying in your beer. Â Whaley's a true riverboat gambler. A thrill-seeker gunning for the hottest commodity cost be damned. I'm personally much more conservative than that, so I cringe when I see what appears on the surface to be reckless decisioning. Sure hope lady luck is with him on this deal. Gunning for the hottest commodity? A little bit of a reach, IMHO. Compared to the years past of the Bills FO doing nearly nothing in the offseason and letting core players walk, of course it would appear Whaley's a gunslinger.....it's all relative; but when you stop and think critically about it, he is smartly managing the cap and building in areas of critical, defined need. A home run in my book. Â And please cite an example of a coveted FA in today's market who does not get overpaid - Whaley is hardly alone doing this. It's the cost of doing business, or, more aptly, opportunity cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If Clay is the versatile piece they want for the offense, I think the money is justified. It's a bit steep, but justified. Now, here is one issue. They really, really need to draft and possibly sign a depth TE who is in Clay's mould, even if he's not as good. Injuries are too frequent in the NFL and the team needs to be prepared for that scenario. Â On the plus side, I do like what I've seen of Gray thus far -- I think he could be an underrated pickup -- and maybe they think he and Gragg can cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If Clay is the versatile piece they want for the offense, I think the money is justified. It's a bit steep, but justified. Now, here is one issue. They really, really need to draft and possibly sign a depth TE who is in Clay's mould, even if he's not as good. Injuries are too frequent in the NFL and the team needs to be prepared for that scenario. Â On the plus side, I do like what I've seen of Gray thus far -- I think he could be an underrated pickup -- and maybe they think he and Gragg can cut it. i see Gray as Clay's backup. I think they need to replace Lee Smith though with a blocking TE in the draft, maybe 5th rd. Heurmann from OSU should be there and would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If Clay is the versatile piece they want for the offense, I think the money is justified. It's a bit steep, but justified. Now, here is one issue. They really, really need to draft and possibly sign a depth TE who is in Clay's mould, even if he's not as good. Injuries are too frequent in the NFL and the team needs to be prepared for that scenario. Â On the plus side, I do like what I've seen of Gray thus far -- I think he could be an underrated pickup -- and maybe they think he and Gragg can cut it. Gray is the kind of player but I don't think anyone knows if he can be any good. He made two nice plays last year when no one covered him. I doubt right now that he could be counted on to do it. Gragg has some potential as that kind of player. His blocking his improved a bit but he hasn't shown much. I would not doubt at all if we draft a TE in the second or third round. Depends on what we do on the OL before the draft I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I thought I remembered Gragg grading really well on blocking during the preseason.... or am I going insane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Challenge will be, do we have a QB that can recognize who is going to be open? Good point, and be able to throw to him accurately if he's more that 20 down field. Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I thought I remembered Gragg grading really well on blocking during the preseason.... or am I going insane? Probably both, although preseason means nada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Good point, and be able to throw to him accurately if he's more that 20 down field. Go Bills  I think Cassel is best suited for this. This is exactly what EJ has been awful at this whole time. Recognizing the op en guy quickly and getting him the ball.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 @OmarKelly: I said this 2 weeks ago & I stand by it now. I'd rather have the $7M back than Charles Clay. No shade to Clay. Love him like a play cousin  wtf is a " play cousin" - guess I'm behind on the lingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 @OmarKelly: I said this 2 weeks ago & I stand by it now. I'd rather have the $7M back than Charles Clay. No shade to Clay. Love him like a play cousin  wtf is a " play cousin" - guess I'm behind on the lingo Omar--in the last two weeks -- you have taken every possible position on this issue....Jesus -- you are my stupid cousin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Well, the modus operandi of Whaley overpaying market value for players he covets has proven to be a consistent pattern. Huge risk/reward philosophy... hit it big you're in the penthouse popping champagne; miss and you're in the shlt house crying in your beer. Â Whaley's a true riverboat gambler. A thrill-seeker gunning for the hottest commodity cost be damned. I'm personally much more conservative than that, so I cringe when I see what appears on the surface to be reckless decisioning. Sure hope lady luck is with him on this deal. I think Clay is going to be great, but I fear, as always, unless he has 10 td's and 1000 yards, some will insist we overpaid for him. Â I think there is a good chance he won't become the Pegula Bills answer to the Pegula Sabres Ville Lleino.... Edited March 18, 2015 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Here we go...Air Pegula on the move! Â http://flightaware.com/live/flight/XSR960 Edited March 18, 2015 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think Clay is going to be great, but I fear, as always, unless he has 10 td's and 1000 yards, some will insist we overpaid for him. Â I think there is a good chance he won't become the Peguala Bills answer to the Pegula Sabres Ville Lleino.... people finally came around to mario, and sammy gets a lot of credit already.... we will see. JTSP will never like him though. atleast not until we release him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Here we go...Air Pegula on the move! Â http://flightaware.com/live/flight/XSR90 Ha - love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think Clay is going to be great, but I fear, as always, unless he has 10 td's and 1000 yards, some will insist we overpaid for him. I don't really fear that. Without Clay's contract, the people who would say that would find something else to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alabama Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Here we go...Air Pegula on the move! Â http://flightaware.com/live/flight/XSR960 Classic! Had a good laugh at that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 The overpaying concept is IMO out of context. Apart from kickers/punters, the TE position has the smallest negative effect if one overpays. Â The same week that Miami had to suck up $6.6M in dead money after paying $20.5M over the last 2 seasons for a useless Mike Wallace, people are knocking the Bills for overpaying Clay by $0.55M. Rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 People expecting huge numbers put up by Clay are probably going to be disappointed. Nor will his numbers prove whether or not he is worth it or not. You don't pay a guy 7-8 mil a year cap hit to be a decoy. His numbers absolutely will prove his worth. Anything less than 60 catches a year, 650 yards and 6 TD's will be a disappointment. I don't think these are ridiculous expectations. If they are lower, then DW and RR are not on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 @OmarKelly: I said this 2 weeks ago & I stand by it now. I'd rather have the $7M back than Charles Clay. No shade to Clay. Love him like a play cousin  wtf is a " play cousin" - guess I'm behind on the lingo  someone you can put in a bunch of make believe stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 You don't pay a guy 7-8 mil a year cap hit to be a decoy. His numbers absolutely will prove his worth. Anything less than 60 catches a year, 650 yards and 6 TD's will be a disappointment. I don't think these are ridiculous expectations. If they are lower, then DW and RR are not on the same page. So based on Mario Williams salary, what should his stats be? 100 tackles, 25 sacks, 10 forced fumbles 5 INTs....he should also probably play on offense considering the money he's making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 You don't pay a guy 7-8 mil a year cap hit to be a decoy. His numbers absolutely will prove his worth. Anything less than 60 catches a year, 650 yards and 6 TD's will be a disappointment. I don't think these are ridiculous expectations. If they are lower, then DW and RR are not on the same page. Untrue, IMO. And it's not to be a decoy. It's to be a weapon, a blocker on sweeps, to disguise whether we are going to run or pass by going in motion out of the backfield or on the wing as an HBack, to catch balls down the seams, to be a FB on some plays, to run out of the backfield, to pass protect, etc. The only reason he is not going to be putting up huge numbers is because we have five legit weapons, not two or three or four like every other team, and we are going to spread the ball around. He's extremely versatile and the kind of player that Roman loves to use 6-7 different ways. That's where his value is, not as a common TE. He's not the best TE in the league but he's the best that kind of TE in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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