NFL MVP

[BillsFan130]

10 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Von Miller? Diggs, Tre White and others might eventually have a case too. 

 

Chris Jones is borderline. He has some work to do. 

 

Over the last two years, I'd say each QB has had one surefire HOFer on his roster. Kelce and Von Miller. Miller wasn't in his prime this year but Kelce wasn't either. 

 

It's fair to say that Mahomes had a big advantage in offensive talent in his first few years, but he definitely hasn't the last few years. And when the offensive talent was great, the defense wasn't very good. 

Oh Von miller- you mean the guy who didn't play the back half of the season last year and the guy who got payed like 4 mil per tackle this year? The man was a healthy scratch this year for a game, that's how bad he was🤢

 

Diggs is close but I don't think he will make it - and he comes up small every time they play the chiefs, unlike what the chief elite players do to us

 

Tre white no way as injuries stopped that in 2021

30 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I don’t think anyone, outside of Baltimore fans, would rather have Lamar as their QB than Josh.  To me it’s pretty clear that Josh is the second best QB in the nfl behind Mahomes. Once Josh starts beating Mahomes in playoffs and getting some hardware we can reevaluate that comparison. But Lamar belongs nowhere near this conversation 

I agree. I'm not sure if you read the convo in what I was saying to the other poster, but that's exactly what I'm trying to say about Lamar vs josh.

 

Where I disagree with though is "Josh beating Mahomes".

 

It is not boxing and a 1 on 1 matchup.

 

13 seconds game was Josh's fault? 
 

Even this year. Diggs drops a 80 yard TD and our 5 mil kicker shanks a kick.

 

If Josh played bad against the chiefs I would agree. But the guy has been elite against the chiefs in the playoffs the last two times they lost and it's way more to do with the coaching/supporting cast than "Josh not beating Mahomes"

Edited February 8 by BillsFan130

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

A better question is how many all pros has Mahomes had on defense to lose? He's never had an above average defense before this year. 

That’s only a better question if your name is Saul Goodman.  You have 2 all pros (jones and sneed) and neither has ever missed a playoff game.  In the past, you had Clark and mathieu.  Neither missed entire playoff games.  Mathieu missed most of the 13 second game and your D had no answer.  Luckily for you McD had your back.
 

the bills had invested more in defense than KC.  That’s why we had more all pros.  What good does an all pro defender do if they aren’t there in the playoffs?  They do no good.

 

i forgot to mention all pro Micah Hyde missing 2022.  
 

Volts of resources spent on great players that aren’t healthy in the playoffs.  
 

again-  how many all pros has Mahomes missed due to injury in the playoffs? the one season you suffered injuries on offense, you got beat down in the Super Bowl.  Since then…..what good players have you lost due to injury?  I’ll wait

[SaulGoodman]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That’s only a better question if your name is Saul Goodman.  You have 2 all pros (jones and sneed) and neither has ever missed a playoff game.  In the past, you had Clark and mathieu.  Neither missed entire playoff games.  Mathieu missed most of the 13 second game and your D had no answer.  Luckily for you McD had your back.
 

the bills had invested more in defense than KC.  That’s why we had more all pros.  What good does an all pro defender do if they aren’t there in the playoffs?  They do no good.

 

i forgot to mention all pro Micah Hyde missing 2022.  
 

Volts of resources spent on great players that aren’t healthy in the playoffs.  
 

again-  how many all pros has Mahomes missed due to injury in the playoffs? the one season you suffered injuries on offense, you got beat down in the Super Bowl.  Since then…..what good players have you lost due to injury?  I’ll wait

 

Clark was ridiculed throughout most of his KC career and couldn't even get on the field for a bad Denver team this year. Sneed didn't really kick it into gear until this season. 

 

Just last year, Mahomes was playing on one leg throughout the entire playoff run and they were down 4 of their top 5 WRs in the AFC title game (plus Sneed and Gay). 

 

Even with the injuries on defense this year, Buffalo allowed 18 ppg. McD may not have the offensive impact of Reid, but he's great defensively. 

[Southern Bills Fan]

Everyone dancing around it, I'll say it. Race has a lot to do with Lamar winning MVP. If Josh had Lamar's stats he wouldn't be in the top 20. 

[VaMilBill]

58 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Oh Von miller- you mean the guy who didn't play the back half of the season last year and the guy who got payed like 4 mil per tackle this year? The man was a healthy scratch this year for a game, that's how bad he was🤢

 

Diggs is close but I don't think he will make it - and he comes up small every time they play the chiefs, unlike what the chief elite players do to us

 

Tre white no way as injuries stopped that in 2021

I agree. I'm not sure if you read the convo in what I was saying to the other poster, but that's exactly what I'm trying to say about Lamar vs josh.

 

Where I disagree with though is "Josh beating Mahomes".

 

It is not boxing and a 1 on 1 matchup.

 

13 seconds game was Josh's fault? 
 

Even this year. Diggs drops a 80 yard TD and our 5 mil kicker shanks a kick.

 

If Josh played bad against the chiefs I would agree. But the guy has been elite against the chiefs in the playoffs the last two times they lost and it's way more to do with the coaching/supporting cast than "Josh not beating Mahomes"

Missed the earlier conversation. 
 

I understand the sentiments of the defense failing Josh in 13 seconds. But Mahomes also won that game. So you gotta give credit to him there. 
 

This past bills chiefs game, I definitely thought josh played better than Mahomes. Our defense was just too beat up. But in the end, all that people will look at is who won and who lost the game. All the minute details will be forgotten by most next season. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

10 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

 

Have you noticed that Reid transformed from guy who was fired in Philly, and widely ridiculed by fans all over the country, to unrivaled wizard—as soon as Mahomes entered the league?

 

I just think the narratives of Mahomes having everything and Allen having nothing are way off the mark. 

Let me tell you something: I was in Philly for the last few years of Reid's career.

 

"Widely ridiculed" was not the feeling on the street. There was frustration after a decade of overall high level play hadn't resulted in a championship, and gripes about Reid's time management and penchant for trying for WR screens (sound familiar to anyone?) but in general it was a bittersweet moment. I mean, maybe Philadelphia sports fans are just big softies...:P

 

But seriously, Reid went to 4 straight conference championship games (5 total) and made the playoffs more often than not over the course of over a decade with the Eagles, went to the Chiefs and won their division all but one year.

 

Yes, Mahomes pushed him over the finish line, but you don't get that amount of success over 25 years without being a good coach.

[SaulGoodman]

15 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Let me tell you something: I was in Philly for the last few years of Reid's career.

 

"Widely ridiculed" was not the feeling on the street. There was frustration after a decade of overall high level play hadn't resulted in a championship, and gripes about Reid's time management and penchant for trying for WR screens (sound familiar to anyone?) but in general it was a bittersweet moment. I mean, maybe Philadelphia sports fans are just big softies...:P

 

But seriously, Reid went to 4 straight conference championship games (5 total) and made the playoffs more often than not over the course of over a decade with the Eagles, went to the Chiefs and won their division all but one year.

 

Yes, Mahomes pushed him over the finish line, but you don't get that amount of success over 25 years without being a good coach.

 

I've always respected Reid a lot, but a lot of NFL fans didn't, prior to Mahomes. To many, he was a perennial choker with horrible clock management skills who neglected the run game. 

 

You didn't hear anyone calling Andy Reid a massive advantage pre-Mahomes. 

Edited February 8 by SaulGoodman

[BananaB]

41 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Everyone dancing around it, I'll say it. Race has a lot to do with Lamar winning MVP. If Josh had Lamar's stats he wouldn't be in the top 20. 

💯 

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Lamar will prob have 2 mvps and Josh has 0- does that mean he's objectively better than Josh?

 

Eli has 2 rings, Josh has 0. Does that mean he's objectively better than Josh?

 

Brock Purdy has been to a SB and is in the mvp race- is he objectively better than Josh?

 

Got to be a bit careful when you just look at "objective" things as it doesn't tell the whole story at all. It is a complete team game

Objective does not exclusively mean hardware. So ‘no’ to your examples. Whereas Mahomes has the hardware and consistency throughout his career. As great as Allen is he’s still inconsistent. Recognizing that is being objective. 

[Prospector]

3 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Everyone dancing around it, I'll say it. Race has a lot to do with Lamar winning MVP. If Josh had Lamar's stats he wouldn't be in the top 20. 

Couldn't agree more... and if he loses, there will almost certainly be backlash from certain sports talking heads, trying to make it the narrative that it's the ONLY reason he didn't win it.

Edited February 8 by Prospector

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

Kelce and Von Miller. Miller wasn't in his prime this year but Kelce wasn't either. 

 

LMAO

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

Just last year, Mahomes was playing on one leg throughout the entire playoff run

 

Right. The Chiefs won a Super Bowl with their QB not playing at his best. The Bills with their QB playing at his best on two occasions have not made it past the divisional round. Thank you for pointing this out.

 

Wait, sorry. Just to be clear - you're trying to use this as evidence that Mahomes vs Allen is the main difference between their respective teams?

 

4 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

This past bills chiefs game, I definitely thought josh played better than Mahomes.

 

Allen has out-played Mahomes in every matchup they've had since 2021. Despite playing with a harder degree of difficulty in each of them.

 

Edited February 8 by HappyDays

[julian]

7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Clark was ridiculed throughout most of his KC career and couldn't even get on the field for a bad Denver team this year. Sneed didn't really kick it into gear until this season. 

 

Just last year, Mahomes was playing on one leg throughout the entire playoff run and they were down 4 of their top 5 WRs in the AFC title game (plus Sneed and Gay). 

 

Even with the injuries on defense this year, Buffalo allowed 18 ppg. McD may not have the offensive impact of Reid, but he's great defensively. 

Just not when it matters most.. the post season

[frostbitmic]

It has to be Kelce ... he's in the Super Bowl for the 4th time in the last 5 years and he's ******* the hot Billionaire.

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Clark was ridiculed throughout most of his KC career and couldn't even get on the field for a bad Denver team this year. Sneed didn't really kick it into gear until this season. 

 

Just last year, Mahomes was playing on one leg throughout the entire playoff run and they were down 4 of their top 5 WRs in the AFC title game (plus Sneed and Gay). 

 

Even with the injuries on defense this year, Buffalo allowed 18 ppg. McD may not have the offensive impact of Reid, but he's great defensively. 

Sorry, are we talking about Frank Clark in 2023 or Frank Clark that had 10.5 sacks in 12 playoff games in KC?  Right.  He was a force in every playoff run except the year Cinci took you guys down.  
 

Mahomes played in every playoffs game….. sorry, but being banged up isn’t being injured.  Everyone is banged up this time of year.

 

yeah- mcdermott was great all year without Milano, white, von and daquan.  Then Bernard, Benford and Rapp got hurt and missed the KC game.  Kelce had a field day vs Bernard’s replacement AJ Klein….. as did pacheco.  A plethora of starters were either out or ineffective due to injury.

 

KC has been VERY lucky with regards to Injury.  The Bills have not.  Winning Super Bowls takes a lot of luck along with great play and coaching.  Grats on the stars aligning

Edited February 9 by NewEra

[ShakAttack]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sorry, are we talking about Frank Clark in 2023 or Frank Clark that had 10.5 sacks in 12 playoff games in KC?  Right.  He was a force in every playoff run except the year Cinci took you guys down.  
 

Mahomes played in every playoffs game….. sorry, but being banged up isn’t being injured.  Everyone is banged up this time of year.

 

yeah- mcdermott was great all year without Milano, white, von and daquan.  Then Bernard, Benford and Rapp got hurt and missed the KC game.  Kelce had a field day vs Bernard’s replacement AJ Klein….. as did pacheco.  A plethora of starters we out or ineffective due to injury.

 

KC has been VERY lucky with regards to Injury.  The Bills have not.  Winning Super Bowls takes a lot of luck along with great play and coaching.  Grats on the stars aligning

 

while this is true, it always feels like despite all of the injuries and all of the obstacles we have to overcome almost every year, when you look at the elimination games - particularly last 2 vs KC - and how we lost, it always come down to some stupid blunder. You know, the type the chiefs never have either. Like… neglecting to squib kick in “13 seconds” or, Allen neglecting to hit Diggs on the wide open crossing route on 2nd and 9. 
 

Ultimately, our most promising seasons end on what we did to ourselves, more-so than what the opponent did to us.
 

And other than losing a game on a blown call by the refs, the next worst way to go out is over a stupid mistake at the very end of the game, that takes away from everything great you did up to that point.

 

the Eagles OT game felt very much like this year’s KC loss too, but that game ended up being much less significant than it felt at the time

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, BobBelcher said:

 

while this is true, it always feels like despite all of the injuries and all of the obstacles we have to overcome almost every year, when you look at the elimination games - particularly last 2 vs KC - and how we lost, it always come down to some stupid blunder. You know, the type the chiefs never have either. Like… neglecting to squib kick in “13 seconds” or, Allen neglecting to hit Diggs on the wide open crossing route on 2nd and 9. 
 

Ultimately, our most promising seasons end on what we did to ourselves, more-so than what the opponent did to us.
 

And other than losing a game on a blown call by the refs, the next worst way to go out is over a stupid mistake at the very end of the game, that takes away from everything great you did up to that point.

 

the Eagles OT game felt very much like this year’s KC loss too, but that game ended up being much less significant than it felt at the time

For sure-  I’m not saying injuries are the only reason we haven’t won one. Definitely a combination or execution, coaching and injuries. 

[KingBoots8]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

It has to be Kelce ... he's in the Super Bowl for the 4th time in the last 5 years and he's ******* the hot Billionaire.

MVP sadly doesn’t mean “most valuable peen”

 

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Everyone dancing around it, I'll say it. Race has a lot to do with Lamar winning MVP. If Josh had Lamar's stats he wouldn't be in the top 20. 

 

Josh would not have led that same Baltimore team to a 13-3 record and the #1 seed.

[strive_for_five_guy]

37 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Josh would not have led that same Baltimore team to a 13-3 record and the #1 seed.

Agreed.  They’d have been 17-0 and be playing this weekend.

[Chicken Boo]

12 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Agreed.  They’d have been 17-0 and be playing this weekend.

 

Riiiight.  

[Thrivefourfive]

57 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Josh would not have led that same Baltimore team to a 13-3 record and the #1 seed.

Is there a zero seed I am unaware of?

57 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Josh would not have led that same Baltimore team to a 13-3 record and the #1 seed.

Is there a zero seed I am unaware of?

[MJS]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:20 AM, RiotAct said:

yeah anyone with half a brain can see that Josh is more valuable to Buffalo than Lamar is to the Ravens.

I hear this argument a lot, but I don't like it. I mean, I agree that Josh deserves it just as much, if not more, than Lamar, but the NFL MVP is not about who is most valuable on their respective team, it is about who is most valuable league wide.

 

You could have a bad team who's QB does everything for their offense and gets them to 7 wins. Should he be the NFL MVP just because he is the most valuable person on his bad team?

 

Josh Allen can be a better player, put up better stats, and have a more balanced offense and deserve it even though there might be a QB out there who does everything for their team. Because it is NFL MVP, not who is most valuable for their respective teams.

 

It is about stats, wins, memorable games, and having strong performances in the last quarter of the season. And I think they usually get it right. Not always, but usually.

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

Josh would not have led that same Baltimore team to a 13-3 record and the #1 seed.

Why do you think this? The Ravens had the #1 defense and better receivers. Why would Josh Allen not perform just as well, if not better, than Lamar? Josh is a better passer and just as big of a threat running it.

[Herc11]

Lamar wasn't even the MVP of his own team, let alone the entire league.

[PromoTheRobot]

MVP aside, how is Josh not even nominated for offensive POY?

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

MVP aside, how is Josh not even nominated for offensive POY?

He got a couple votes I think

[zow2]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

MVP aside, how is Josh not even nominated for offensive POY?

 

You ain’t kidding. The guy with the most TDs is not even nominated.

 

 

 

 

[TBBills Fan]

Josh had to many turnovers to win these awards.  Sad, but true. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, TBBills Fan said:

Josh had to many turnovers to win these awards.  Sad, but true. 

 

Narrative 

[TBBills Fan]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Narrative 

 

I mean he did let's be honest.  I'm just saying, when it comes to stupid awards, they can't pick.him with all those INTS. It is what it is. Josh is my.guy.  Most talent in the league.  But this is based on stats and clips. He had to many with INTs this year 

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

MVP aside, how is Josh not even nominated for offensive POY?

Most TDs and yards, meh. 🤷‍♂️

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

Lamar wasn't even the MVP of his own team, let alone the entire league.

Who was the ravens mvp if not lamar? A MLB or a S? 

[zow2]

Lamar walks into the HOF tonight 

 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

16 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

Josh had to many turnovers to win these awards.  Sad, but true. 

Plus, he gave away arguably two games when all we needed was a game manager (@Jets, Broncos).  An MVP can't do that.

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Who was the ravens mvp if not lamar? A MLB or a S? 

Roquan Smith

 

Not that he was.  Just answering the question.  

[zow2]

Pretty sure Allen is not attending this awards show, and he’s in Vegas.  So pretty clear he’s not winning anything or they would’ve tipped him off like they did McCaffrey.

[Roundybout]

Thats my MVP

[PromoTheRobot]

Rising from the dead is overrated.

[Roundybout]

So Joe Flacco had a good couple of games and then returns to ass and he gets the award over a guy who died on the field 

[Brand J]

11 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Everyone dancing around it, I'll say it. Race has a lot to do with Lamar winning MVP. If Josh had Lamar's stats he wouldn't be in the top 20. 

Guess I’ll be one of the few who strongly disagrees with this take. The Ravens were the model of consistency all year, they bludgeoned other top teams in the league. Lamar played phenomenal at times, he was captain of “the best team in the league.”

If Josh’s Bills beat up on contender after contender like the Ravens and Josh also had the low turnover output Lamar had (ie didn’t cost his team games), there’s no doubt Josh would’ve been in the MVP discussion all year long and the likely winner.
 

When the Dolphins were hot early, Hill and Tua were heavily discussed. Before the 49ers hit their lull, Brock Purdy and McCaffrey were heavily discussed. Nowadays they seem to award the MVP to a player on the perceived best team rather than the player who was most impactful league wide.
 

Race has nothing to do with it.