Bobby Babich Staying, Promoted to DC!

[jahnyc]

I assume we now need new d-line, LB and QB coaches.  Wonder if one of both of the guys we interviewed for DC (Desai and Caldwell) fill the available defensive assistant coach positions.

[MrEpsYtown]

29 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

I assume we now need new d-line, LB and QB coaches.  Wonder if one of both of the guys we interviewed for DC (Desai and Caldwell) fill the available defensive assistant coach positions.

 

Caldwell could be the new linebackers coach, unless he wants to go back to the Bucs. 

[BillsFanSD]

I hope it works out, but our OC and DC hires both reek of "more of the same."  I'm not convinced that that's the answer.

[Bruffalo]

20 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I hope it works out, but our OC and DC hires both reek of "more of the same."  I'm not convinced that that's the answer.

 

They're both young up and coming position coaches who have gotten a lot of interest from other teams. I'd rather have up and coming potential than Vic Fangio and Arthur Smith or McDaniels.

 

"More of the Same" by the way is a top 5-8 team in the NFL. I know we're all sour about the way it ended again but there are 14 other teams who didn't best the Chiefs either. 

[Big Turk]

18 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The organization did the right thing promoting both Brady & Babich. I honestly don't know alot about either gut other than a half year of playcalling from Joe.  Continuity is important.  But I think most fans will agree the regular season is not the problem.  And the wild card round usually goes our way assuming we're not facing Joe or Patrick.  But once the divisionals start, we all rightfully start freaking out. How do we stop these 2 guys?

 

Babich helped have 3 All-Pros in Hyde, Poyer and Milano when he coached safety and LB...and also helped Bernard blossom into having one of the best all-around LB seasons since Seth Joyner in 1991.

 

How will he do calling plays? No clue...but he clearly gets the most out of what he has 

[colin]

i dunno if im missing something here, but brady was OC in the nfl before, and babbich has been dc on two different teams before coming here.

 

neither of these guys are rookies at their new job.  i'd contrast this to the start of 2023, where dorsey really was a rookie OC, and our hc was also our DC.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I hope it works out, but our OC and DC hires both reek of "more of the same."  I'm not convinced that that's the answer.

 

So I think there is something to the point that the Bills haven't gone "outside" for a coordinator hire since Heath Farwell in 2019. And while I am not saying external or internal is necessarily better or worse than the alternative 5 years is a long time to go without new perspectives. 

 

That said, Joe Brady has only been on staff here two years and in the time McDermott has been Bills Head Coach Brady has worked for the Saints, LSU and the Carolina Panthers. I also think that Babich and Brady are both deserving hires. Joe did a good job in difficult circumstances and Babich has been the most outstanding position coach on staff in the McDermott era at two spots. They are both young guys making their way and both I have no doubt have ambitions to be a Head Coach. So they are going to work their asses off to make that happen. 

 

A few years ago when we have McDermott, Daboll, Frazier we had arguably the most experienced core in the NFL in the top 3 jobs. We are younger there now, and the test for McDermott is to empower his young coordinators in their roles. 

 

But can we please hurry and fire Smiley?

1 minute ago, colin said:

i dunno if im missing something here, but brady was OC in the nfl before, and babbich has been dc on two different teams before coming here.

 

neither of these guys are rookies at their new job.  i'd contrast this to the start of 2023, where dorsey really was a rookie OC, and our hc was also our DC.

 

No he hasn't. That was his dad. Bob Babich. 

[BullBuchanan]

21 hours ago, Logic said:

The Bills have consistently ranked in the top 10 and/or top 5 in DVOA and points scored since McDermott arrived.

Babich has been a key cog in the coaching wheel the whole time. First he did great work with the safeties, as Hyde and Poyer both became All-Pro caliber players. Then he moved to linebacker, where Milano has developed into an All-Pro and Bernard just had an outstanding sophomore season.

I understand ideological frustration with continuity, given that the Bills have yet to win a Super Bowl under McDermott. To complain about this specific move, though, seems like misplaced frustration. Babich is a good coach, as evidenced by his multiple interviews elsewhere, and this is a good hire.

Be sure to remind us all of this after KC or Cincy's offense rolls our defense over in the playoffs next year.

[colin]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I think there is something to the point that the Bills haven't gone "outside" for a coordinator hire since Heath Farwell in 2019. And while I am not saying external or internal is necessarily better or worse than the alternative 5 years is a long time to go without new perspectives. 

 

That said, Joe Brady has only been on staff here two years and in the time McDermott has been Bills Head Coach Brady has worked for the Saints, LSU and the Carolina Panthers. I also think that Babich and Brady are both deserving hires. Joe did a good job in difficult circumstances and Babich has been the most outstanding position coach on staff in the McDermott era at two spots. They are both young guys making their way and both I have no doubt have ambitions to be a Head Coach. So they are going to work their asses off to make that happen. 

 

A few years ago when we have McDermott, Daboll, Frazier we had arguably the most experienced core in the NFL in the top 3 jobs. We are younger there now, and the test for McDermott is to empower his young coordinators in their roles. 

 

But can we please hurry and fire Smiley?

 

No he hasn't. That was his dad. Bob Babich. 

 

lol, my bad!

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Be sure to remind us all of this after KC or Cincy's offense rolls our defense over in the playoffs next year.

Sure. No problem. 

And likewise, if the Bills are great defensively in the playoffs next year and Babich turns out to have been a great hire, I trust you'll be here with bells on to eat crow?

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Sure. No problem. 

And likewise, if the Bills are great defensively in the playoffs next year and Babich turns out to have been a great hire, I trust you'll be here with bells on to eat crow?

Absolutely. 99.99% sure that won't be happening though.

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Absolutely. 99.99% sure that won't be happening though.

 

THAT’S the spirit!  

 

 

😋

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, BillsFanSD said:

I hope it works out, but our OC and DC hires both reek of "more of the same."  I'm not convinced that that's the answer.

 

When you hire from within, I suppose it does reek of "more of the same."  

 

But I may be a little more open-minded than you.  I would've hated for people to think that I'd be a clone of the guys who promoted me in my career.  I never was.  I don't expect these guys to be either.  

 

I think Brady might energize the offense.  And I think he might not.  I don't believe he was super impressive in his half-year tryout, but I do recognize that he was thrown into the fire with someone else's playbook and scheme.  The players seem to like Brady, but they liked Dabs and Dorsey too.  To sum up: who knows?  

 

As for Babich, I've heard nothing but good things about him.  Of course, he'll be working within McDermott's scheme.  And considering how we've ranked defensively and how we've been able to patch together a credible defense despite key injuries, that's not a bad thing.  Does Babich have the drive and skills to help get the team over the playoff hump?  We have no way of knowing.  

 

 

 

 

[Mister Defense]

Somewhat disappointed as McDermott did one of the best jobs I have ever seen coaching the defense this year.  I wanted to see how dominant they could be when healthy next year.

 

Hopefully he works very closely with Babich this off season and during the 2024 season, implementing much of the defensive philosophy that has made the Bills one of  the best defenses over the last 5 years.

 

 

36 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Absolutely. 99.99% sure that won't be happening though.

 

Wow, that is an extremely high percentage of certainty!!

 

What facts or inside information do you have to back this up, specifically?

 

 

Edited January 31 by Mister Defense

[DieHardFan]

I N C E S T destroyed royalty, hope the Bills aren't going down the same path.

 

Is McDermott so scared/set in his ways that he doesn't want fresh perspectives?

Edited January 31 by DieHardFan
Unnecessery Censorship

[RkFast]

6 minutes ago, DieHardFan said:

***** destroyed royalty, hope the Bills aren't going down the same path.

 

Is McDermott so scared/set in his ways that he doesn't want fresh perspectives?

 

Bill Belichick was notorious for only keeping "his guys." The last two years of his tenure in NE aside, how did that work out?

Edited January 31 by RkFast

[ngbills]

1 hour ago, BillsFanSD said:

I hope it works out, but our OC and DC hires both reek of "more of the same."  I'm not convinced that that's the answer.

But the logic is always - the guys that were lower on the totem pole are always better than the guys on the top. Dorsey was better than Daboll. Brady is better than Dorsey. Babich is better than anyone else out there and assumed better than Frazier was. If we fired McD tomorrow and made Brady, Babich or whoever the head coach it would be celebrated as a great move and upgrade because they are up and comers and were clearly getting poached by another team so had to keep them. 

[BullBuchanan]

10 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

Somewhat disappointed as McDermott did one of the best jobs I have ever seen coaching the defense this year.  I wanted to see how dominant they could be when healthy next year.

 

Hopefully he works very closely with Babich this off season and during the 2024 season, implementing much of the defensive philosophy that has made the Bills one of  the best defenses over the last 5 years.

 

 

 

Wow, that is an extremely high percentage of certainty!!

 

What facts or inside information do you have to back this up, specifically?

 

 

As a Buffalo Bills fan, I'm privy to some really exclusive information like watching what happens when you have a coaching and veteran talent pipeline that is extremely  dependent on the franchise juggernaut that is the Carolina Panthers. I've watched how continuity of a mediocre staff has manifested in the same form of mediocrity and continued mistakes despite many, many attempts.

Promoting from within is generally an indication that you want, and should expect more of the same. It's great thing when you have a history of success. When you have a history of falling well short of expectations, well, expect that to continue. These are company men towing the company line that owe their future to McDermott. I don't expect anything to change significantly and I don't expect them to improve significantly unless something crazy happens outside of their control, like Beane drafting a few rookies that play at an all-pro level.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Sounds like someone that should be coaching linebackers.

 

 

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

As a Buffalo Bills fan, I'm privy to some really exclusive information like watching what happens when you have a coaching and veteran talent pipeline that is extremely  dependent on the franchise juggernaut that is the Carolina Panthers. I've watched how continuity of a mediocre staff has manifested in the same form of mediocrity and continued mistakes despite many, many attempts.

Promoting from within is generally an indication that you want, and should expect more of the same. It's great thing when you have a history of success. When you have a history of falling well short of expectations, well, expect that to continue. These are company men towing the company line that owe their future to McDermott. I don't expect anything to change significantly and I don't expect them to improve significantly unless something crazy happens outside of their control, like Beane drafting a few rookies that play at an all-pro level.

 

I agree with your positive assessment--I think they will improve slightly next year, just enough to get them over the hump..

[st pete gogolak]

So even though our D has been statistically very good in the regular season the last four years, good offenses have blown us up in the playoffs each of the last four years.  Is it players, schemes, injuries, or something else?  Not sure but I lean toward scheme.  I would love to see us imitate the Rams “Greatest Show on Turf” defense.  It wasn’t particularly talented but it complimented a high powered offense by being super aggressive, causing a lot of turnovers and playing well with a lead.  Do we have the personnel to blitz more, play more press coverage?  Have no idea.  Will Babich have the authority to remake the defense?  I’m guessing no.  We’re clearly going to pick a bunch of players on the defensive side in the upcoming draft so we’ll have a better idea about the direction of the defense at the end of April.

[BullBuchanan]

11 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I agree with your positive assessment--I think they will improve slightly next year, just enough to get them over the hump..

good luck with that. Go ahead and bet the farm on the Bills next year. I'll put my money on the Chiefs or maybe SF.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

22 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

So even though our D has been statistically very good in the regular season the last four years, good offenses have blown us up in the playoffs each of the last four years.  Is it players, schemes, injuries, or something else?  Not sure but I lean toward scheme.  I would love to see us imitate the Rams “Greatest Show on Turf” defense.  It wasn’t particularly talented but it complimented a high powered offense by being super aggressive, causing a lot of turnovers and playing well with a lead.  Do we have the personnel to blitz more, play more press coverage?  Have no idea.  Will Babich have the authority to remake the defense?  I’m guessing no.  We’re clearly going to pick a bunch of players on the defensive side in the upcoming draft so we’ll have a better idea about the direction of the defense at the end of April.

I think part of it recently has been injuries. I know it’s an excuse but it’s also facts.

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

27 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

So even though our D has been statistically very good in the regular season the last four years, good offenses have blown us up in the playoffs each of the last four years.  Is it players, schemes, injuries, or something else?  Not sure but I lean toward scheme.  I would love to see us imitate the Rams “Greatest Show on Turf” defense.  It wasn’t particularly talented but it complimented a high powered offense by being super aggressive, causing a lot of turnovers and playing well with a lead.  Do we have the personnel to blitz more, play more press coverage?  Have no idea.  Will Babich have the authority to remake the defense?  I’m guessing no.  We’re clearly going to pick a bunch of players on the defensive side in the upcoming draft so we’ll have a better idea about the direction of the defense at the end of April.

I lean toward players/injuries, especially lacking any elite guys at DL and secondary:

2020-our DL wasn't near good enough

2021- our DL wasn't near good enough/Tre injured and slowing down in secondary (safeties)

2022-injuries to Von/Hyde/Daquan and a 80% Tre White

2023- way too many injuries, especially at LB to defend what Chiefs like to do with their TEs and Rbs

 

We were missing too many pieces to be aggressive VS Chiefs this year, and just too slow/banged up against Cincy.  I think our scheme works, we play these high-caliber teams in regular season (ie: Chiefs) and can win. 

 

DL and safety will likely look alot different next year (younger/faster).  Not necessarily better overall players, but it's all about staying healthy at key spots.  I'd like to see Spags coach up/use his system here, it wouldn't work....he's been fortunate with injuries.

[BringBackFlutie]

34 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think part of it recently has been injuries. I know it’s an excuse but it’s also facts.

 

 

 

I feel like we've limped into the playoffs with major injuries every year. It's not an excuse but it's getting kind of ridiculous.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BringBackFlutie said:

 

I feel like we've limped into the playoffs with major injuries every year. It's not an excuse but it's getting kind of ridiculous.

I agree which makes no sense. We have THE premier training facility in the NFL and this crap keeps happening?  Sean and company need to do an honest evaluation of the training staff and what methodologies they are implementing. 

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I agree which makes no sense. We have THE premier training facility in the NFL and this crap keeps happening?  Sean and company need to do an honest evaluation of the training staff and what methodologies they are implementing. 

We got ***** by an awful playing surface in London, and then in the Steelers game I was worried the whole time because you know what also happens in Blizzards, no one can get to facilities for treatments like they normally do.

[Chuck Schick]

4 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I agree which makes no sense. We have THE premier training facility in the NFL and this crap keeps happening?  Sean and company need to do an honest evaluation of the training staff and what methodologies they are implementing. 

Having to win 5 straight games just to REACH the playoffs, and then playing in the Wild Card round, got us in the end. How nice would it be to rest starters week 18 and then get a bye??? Dare to dream

[BigAl2526]

The obvious assumption is that the Bills will continue to use the same defensive scheme they've had since McDermott arrived.  Under Frazier, the defense was very reluctant to blitz.  Under McDermott this past season they blitzed more, but the difference had more to do with play calling than scheme.  Babich has spent more time with a McDermott defense than he has with any other scheme.  He's done some college level position coaching, but during his NFL career the only time that he hasn't been with McDermott is the three seasons he spent with Cleveland from 2013 to 2015.  Babich will likely have some ideas for new wrinkles to the scheme, but he's not going to throw it out.

 

The players love him as a position coach, but a coordinator's job is very different.  Still, he's put time in.  He's bright and hard working, and it seems appropriate that he get his chance to move up.  

[mannc]

19 hours ago, colin said:

i dunno if im missing something here, but brady was OC in the nfl before, and babbich has been dc on two different teams before coming here.

 

neither of these guys are rookies at their new job.  i'd contrast this to the start of 2023, where dorsey really was a rookie OC, and our hc was also our DC.

You’re missing something here

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

The obvious assumption is that the Bills will continue to use the same defensive scheme they've had since McDermott arrived.  Under Frazier, the defense was very reluctant to blitz.  Under McDermott this past season they blitzed more, but the difference had more to do with play calling than scheme.  Babich has spent more time with a McDermott defense than he has with any other scheme.  He's done some college level position coaching, but during his NFL career the only time that he hasn't been with McDermott is the three seasons he spent with Cleveland from 2013 to 2015.  Babich will likely have some ideas for new wrinkles to the scheme, but he's not going to throw it out.

 

The players love him as a position coach, but a coordinator's job is very different.  Still, he's put time in.  He's bright and hard working, and it seems appropriate that he get his chance to move up.  

 

Oh yea, they are still going to run McDermott's scheme even if Babich takes on playcalling (which I don't think has been clarified yet either way).

[Warriorspikes51]

since Babich seems to be an ace at player development....there's no need to spend premium picks on Defense

only exception would be if Texas DT Sweat made it to our 2nd round pick.  Him with Oliver would be amazing 

[DrDawkinstein]

16 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I agree which makes no sense. We have THE premier training facility in the NFL and this crap keeps happening?  Sean and company need to do an honest evaluation of the training staff and what methodologies they are implementing. 

 

14 hours ago, Warcodered said:

We got ***** by an awful playing surface in London, and then in the Steelers game I was worried the whole time because you know what also happens in Blizzards, no one can get to facilities for treatments like they normally do.

 

Our biggest injuries have been Hyde breaking his neck last year, Milano breaking his leg this year, and Tre White's bad luck on horrible turf surfaces.

 

No training team is going to prevent broken bones, and I'm not sure what more they could have done for White.

 

The rest of our injuries were just regular old football injuries and the cost of doing business.

 

It sucks because for McD's first few years here (2017 to like 2021) the Bills were on the opposite end of the Injury spectrum and skated through with almost no major injuries.

 

We've been VERY lucky in one area that I dont even want to mention at the risk of speaking it into existence. So I'll just say we've done better than Cincy with Burrow, and keep the prayer candles lit for our boy.

58 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

since Babich seems to be an ace at player development....there's no need to spend premium picks on Defense

only exception would be if Texas DT Sweat made it to our 2nd round pick.  Him with Oliver would be amazing 

 

hahaha, I love your "spend all early picks on WRs" crusade.

 

But unfortunately, we are no longer in a place where the roster is stocked with vets and we can afford to draft developmental players. That was 2019-2022, but no longer.

 

The fact that every Defensive player we draft will most likely have to start right away unfortunately knocks out your argument. We need to spend premium picks on the guys who will be playing a lot of snaps in 2024, not the guy who will come in as our 5th offensive option. (I am in favor of drafting a WR in the 1st)

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

since Babich seems to be an ace at player development....there's no need to spend premium picks on Defense

only exception would be if Texas DT Sweat made it to our 2nd round pick.  Him with Oliver would be amazing 

I would not necessarily plan our 2023 starters on rookies, but our depth took a beating and other than a year left of Poyer we have nothing at safety.

 

My philosophy for the modern NFL defense is that you build to baseline with journeyman and hope your draft picks become splash players

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I would not necessarily plan our 2023 starters on rookies, but our depth took a beating and other than a year left of Poyer we have nothing at safety.

 

My philosophy for the modern NFL defense is that you build to baseline with journeyman and hope your draft picks become splash players

 

I would. Just like Kincaid and Torrence (the latter having played EVERY offensive snap this year) this year.

 

We will need immediate starter contributions from our first 3-4 defensive draft picks.

[Heitz]

18 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I agree which makes no sense. We have THE premier training facility in the NFL and this crap keeps happening?  Sean and company need to do an honest evaluation of the training staff and what methodologies they are implementing. 

Do ya watch football?  Even the BEST athletes get hurt on random stuff all the time, silly to blame the training staff, IMO...  

 

M

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Heitz said:

Do ya watch football?  Even the BEST athletes get hurt on random stuff all the time, silly to blame the training staff, IMO...  

 

M

 

As we know, human beings were not meant to play football.  It’s as simple as that!  

[HappyDays]

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

With how undersized this D is, we’re going to have injuries everyyear. It’s definitely an excuse by design. 

Thats a pretty bad take.

[Warcodered]