Does the Bills Fan Base Need to Cut Miller Some Slack?

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

The Von Miller thing is just ugly from a bunch of different angles.

 

Cap-wise, it makes Brandon Beane look bad for taking a huge financial risk on a player his age.  Maybe that's not fair to our GM.  But a mistake is a mistake, and it will likely cost us a younger and more productive player down the line (such as Leonard Floyd, AJ Epenesa or Greg Rousseau).

 

Coaching-wise, it makes Sean McDermott look bad for continually putting him on the field.  He literally cannot move side to side or turn the corner, and just runs past the Quarterback on every single play.  This is something he MUST be seeing in practice.

 

Despite this, I think fans would have a little more patience and sympathy if it wasn't for the assault charge now hanging over his head.  Many if not most fans would prefer he be cut from the team based on the current evidence.  But the dead-money hit on his contract would be so detrimental to the team, it's something we almost can't even consider.

Von is the reason that Floyd signed with this team on a friendly deal and he was playing lights out before the injury last season. So even though I don’t like Von’s deal long term it isn’t like he isn’t impacting the team in other ways.

[klos63]

23 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Well lets see…either I had dinner with Non recently, and he told me his true feelings, or it is just my opinion.  I will let you figure it out. 

I hope Non didn't attempt to strangle you after you wouldn't pick up the tab.

[Einstein]

Sure, I have no problem cutting him slack. I was fine with signing him at the time and i’m not going to pretend I didn’t like it now.

 

My only thing is - he is hurting the team by being on the field. When he is on the field, our defense has 10 players vs the offenses 11.

So yeah, cut him some slack, but let’s put him on a shelf until next year - when hopefully he will be playing better.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Do we need to cut Von Miller some slack? Yes, a little bit due to the extent of the injury.

 

Do we need to hammer the coaching staff for putting him out there for far too many plays? HELL YES. He's clearly been ineffective for many weeks and he's only hurting the team by being out there as long as he has been.

The biggest mistake is not clowning Von for his first 2 years of weak production due to injury.  It's the stupidity of carting him out there every week to play at 50% due to name and reputation.  I think it's safe to say someone like Kingsley could've made several more plays than Von.  I know McB, you're trying to get your money's worth but it's detrimental to the D.

[TFBillsfan]

Agree with the majority of responses. My frustration is why is he seeing the field this much when his impact is zero and it’s he’s not even close to being 75% physically or mentally. It’s not magically going to change during the playoffs. Even more confusing is WHY did McDermott have him on the field for the last second lateral play? If he watch the replay he did everything to avoid contact. For that situation he’s a major liability. 
 

At this point, he really should be inactive on game days.
 

 

[KCNC]

He is not producing.  According to Sean, you have to earn it.  He must mean other players because he is not cutting it.

[Draconator]

3 hours ago, Rich Stadium Original said:

You will get little argument from me that Miller has not nearly shown anywhere near his past productivity, particularly with what the franchise is paying him. But I would argue that there is a lot more that we don't know about his injury/recovery than we do know:

 

a.) What was the severity of the original injury, and what is the usual recover time to full speed from such an injury? (A lot of his game is built on speed and quickness)

b.) How successful was the surgery, and have there been complications in the recovery limiting speed and agility?

c.) What are the doctors and trainers telling him now? How much pain and swelling  is he getting during repeated use?

d.) Are the Bills aware of his limitations, but putting him out on the field in certain situations just to draw extra attention?

 

I would assume he is a professional athlete with a desire to win, and not just taking plays of because he's afraid of getting hurt again.  If his physical condition was as bad as it may appear without hope for improvement, I would have thought the team would have shut him down on IR...We may never have the answers to a lot of these questions until the season is over.

 

Since you didin't mention which Miller, I would say Ryan Miller is beloved in the Buffalo community. 

[Toyo321]

No he does not deserve any slack!   The only Von Miller highlight I could find of him trying to make one of his three credited tackles this year.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Toyo321

[die hard bills fan]

No

[Breakout Squad]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yes….. posted In a thread that isn’t asking you about his performance.  It’s asking you if he should be given some slack.  
 

That’s like answering “Von Miller went to Texas A&M”.  Cool sorry, the world

knows he’s not the same. 

I’m sorry I offended you by making a comment on a TBD post. Apparently it was too vanilla. 
 

Your second comment is dumb. What does that even mean? Seems like your bowl of cheerios was yellow this morning. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

Miller is here to come up big in big moments. He is still working himself back in to form.  If and when he makes a sack, or forces a turnover that helps win a playoff game, all will be forgiven.  That is why he is here.  
 

 

Keep making progress Von, I know you will make your presence felt soon.  
 

(ps, this is my thoughts on Von Miller,  the football player. Not based on him as a person)

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by buffaloboyinATL

[Big Blitz]

Yes 100% yes.  

[oldmanfan]

He appears to be unable to do anything other than just push directly into the T in front of him.  Apparently the injury does not give his knee the stability to do more.  Until he can do more he shouldn’t be playing.

[CircleTheWagons99]

He does take the right tackle out of the play atleast. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

True. I can also see him making a game changing play against Marino in the finale as well!

Hopefully he and Bryan Cox can play roshambo during warmups and neither end up being able to see the field as a result! 🤔

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

He appears to be unable to do anything other than just push directly into the T in front of him.  Apparently the injury does not give his knee the stability to do more.  Until he can do more he shouldn’t be playing.

This force feeding Von down our throats is just dumb. Just shut him down for the season and hope we can salvage 1 good full year from him before we release him.  Give healthier and more deserving players like Kingsley a shot.

[HerdMentality]

No slack. This is the pros. And he talks a big game.

[GunnerBill]

What do you mean by cut Miller some slack? I don't think anyone is attacking Von himself. Nobody is doubting his desire or effort to get back and impact the game. Nobody is blaming him. People understand the personal impact. 

 

But the fact that the Bills have a highly paid pass rusher out there who can't live up to his contract and isn't playing at the level we hoped for (for understandable reasons) is a legitmate point of discussion. 

 

It was a risky big swing on a player of age. Brandon Beane has been more willing to gamble on old guys than I would if I were a GM and Von was just the highest profile example. He got really unlucky with the ACL. It is what it is.

 

There is a question about what they do beyond this year. But let's have that after the season. For now I hope Floyd and AJE can be healthy for this stretch run and we can use Von sparingly as the 4th man in the rotation. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The biggest mistake is not clowning Von for his first 2 years of weak production due to injury.  It's the stupidity of carting him out there every week to play at 50% due to name and reputation.  I think it's safe to say someone like Kingsley could've made several more plays than Von.  I know McB, you're trying to get your money's worth but it's detrimental to the D.

 

He hasn't hit 50% once. He has only been at 40 or higher three times and two of those have been the last two weeks with Floyd nicked up and AJE down. 

 

If we can get the other two back Von can slide back into sharing the DE4 job with Shaq which is where he belongs on the current roster.

[LABILLBACKER]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He hasn't hit 50% once. He has only been at 40 or higher three times and two of those have been the last two weeks with Floyd nicked up and AJE down. 

 

If we can get the other two back Von can slide back into sharing the DE4 job with Shaq which is where he belongs on the current roster.

I'm not talking about 50% snaps. I'm talking about 50% ability to move.  

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm not talking about 50% snaps. I'm talking about 50% ability to move.  

 

Got you. He is definitely not as agile as he was last season pre-ACL. I thought he flashed 4th Quarter at Kansas City but he has been invisible this season. Which is frustrating.

[BillMafia716ix]

I don’t think Von fully recovered and came back too soon. He was so good before the injury. He doesn’t even look like the same player now. You could tell by the tone in McDermott voice at his presser today that something else could be goin on

[Ray Stonada]

He’s probably more upset about it than anyone can imagine. He knows he has no impact but if he can’t bend the knee, there’s no way.

 

It just sucks. But I don’t blame him for an injury, and his overall impact on the team up until that was great. 

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Logic said:

A player who suffered an injury while having a good season for the Bills, then worked his ass off to come back early on in the following season, only to discover that -- to absolutely no one's surprise -- it's taking him a while to regain form given his age and the injury he suffered...

Should we cut THAT guy some slack?

Yes.

If his lack of success this season was due to lack of effort? If he was loafing it, or milking his injury, or had a bad attitude, or wasn't generally working as hard as he can to make in impact? Then sure, let him have it.

But the way Bills fans rip into this guy as it stands now? WHY?! for what? because he hasn't been effective this year? He's 34 and about a year removed from a torn ACL. What did people really expect?

Sports fans can be cruel and fickle and can have an incredibly short memory. That seems to be the case here.

Now, all of that speaks only to the vitriol aimed at his ON-FIELD performance. If people want to aim some anger and upset his way for the OFF-FIELD stuff? Then sure. Can't fault them one bit.

 

 

Not much more to say.

 

Exactly that.

 

 

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm not talking about 50% snaps. I'm talking about 50% ability to move.  

 

 

He's hit 50% on every single snap for weeks. Every snap, and way beyond 50%. Hell, I hit 50% of Von's 100%, and I'm no spring chicken. You don't get to be a pro athlete till you get to maybe 85%.

 

The problem is that the difference between 90% and 100% is the difference between NFL average and terrific. That's why it's really hard to tell what will happen, even for doctors who spend all their time on stuff like this.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Pete]

8 hours ago, KCNC said:

He is not producing.  According to Sean, you have to earn it.  He must mean other players because he is not cutting it.

Von is taking veteran rest days every week, so it’s not like he’s earning in practice.

 

Vons tape is garbage.  I impact the game from my couch as much as Von does

[Blackbeard]

Maybe you’re not seeing such an “impact” from him because he’s usually double teamed.  
 

which IS actually an impact. 

[boyst]

13 hours ago, Logic said:

A player who suffered an injury while having a good season for the Bills, then worked his ass off to come back early on in the following season, only to discover that -- to absolutely no one's surprise -- it's taking him a while to regain form given his age and the injury he suffered...

Should we cut THAT guy some slack?

Yes.

If his lack of success this season was due to lack of effort? If he was loafing it, or milking his injury, or had a bad attitude, or wasn't generally working as hard as he can to make in impact? Then sure, let him have it.

But the way Bills fans rip into this guy as it stands now? WHY?! for what? because he hasn't been effective this year? He's 34 and about a year removed from a torn ACL. What did people really expect?

Sports fans can be cruel and fickle and can have an incredibly short memory. That seems to be the case here.

Now, all of that speaks only to the vitriol aimed at his ON-FIELD performance. If people want to aim some anger and upset his way for the OFF-FIELD stuff? Then sure. Can't fault them one bit.

i never liked what we signed him for to begin with but got over it because at first it looked worse than reported. the restructure that we absolutey did not have to do - for that i cannot stand him.

 

i've always thought he was a doofus since he came into the league. he approach to vested nfl guys and the way he went lock step with the capping of rookie payscales knowing he was going to get a monster second contract and other players screwed over. the guy has always ground my gears.

[NewEra]

53 minutes ago, boyst said:

i never liked what we signed him for to begin with but got over it because at first it looked worse than reported. the restructure that we absolutey did not have to do - for that i cannot stand him.

 

i've always thought he was a doofus since he came into the league. he approach to vested nfl guys and the way he went lock step with the capping of rookie payscales knowing he was going to get a monster second contract and other players screwed over. the guy has always ground my gears.

You can’t stand him because our GM decided to restructure his contract which inevitably allowed us to sign Leonard Floyd?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Yes.

 

Some players can take a full 2 years before they are a 100%

 

There is also a mental aspect to the recovery in players are fearful of re-injuring the knee again. It takes time to get over that fear.

 

Take the case of Ronald Acuna. 1 year after his knee surgery he was a good player.

 

It took 2 full years before he became an MVP

[Bill from NYC]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

 

I should probably stay away from this thread knowing how stupid some fans are.  

 

Good idea. Some fans are so stupid that they dislike the fact that Miller was strangling his baby momma. Other idiots don't believe in choking their own wives/girlfriends. 

I can't say that I blame you for becoming so indignant.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Good idea. Some fans are so stupid that they dislike the fact that Miller was strangling his baby momma. Other idiots don't believe in choking their own wives/girlfriends. 

I can't say that I blame you for becoming so indignant.

As I’ve said upthread……if you don’t like him for his “alleged” off field action, I can respect that.  
 

As I’ve also said upthread- the OPs thread has no mention of the off field stuff.  This is injury/perfomance/expectation related- so I’m keeping my conversation there

[Ralonzo]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought he flashed 4th Quarter at Kansas City but he has been invisible this season. Which is frustrating.

A street free agent could flash against KC’s tackles. And by street free agent I mean any rando you run into on the street.

[boyst]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You can’t stand him because our GM decided to restructure his contract which inevitably allowed us to sign Leonard Floyd?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

i think the restructure could have been different or money pulled from somewhere else.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, boyst said:

i think the restructure could have been different or money pulled from somewhere else.

Ok…..and you can’t stand him because why?

 

Beane: ”hey von, here’s some cash up front.  It’ll allow us to sign more players and is more cash in hand for you!”

 

von: “sounds good”

 

The GM wanted him to restructure….he agreed to something that the GM thought was helping the team….and you can’t stand the player?  🤷🏻‍♂️ doesn’t make sense to me

[Bill from NYC]

22 minutes ago, NewEra said:

As I’ve said upthread……if you don’t like him for his “alleged” off field action, I can respect that.  
 

As I’ve also said upthread- the OPs thread has no mention of the off field stuff.  This is injury/perfomance/expectation related- so I’m keeping my conversation there

I get it but imo it is hard for some fans to seperate the two issues. I know that it is for me.

 

As far as on field play, I thought that Miller was a bit old to get a huge contract but that doesn't make me hate him, or stupid.  

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I get it but imo it is hard for some fans to seperate the two issues. I know that it is for me.

 

As far as on field play, I thought that Miller was a bit old to get a huge contract but that doesn't make me hate him, or stupid.  

Lol…. I didn’t say it made you stupid.  You’re the one that is inferring that it does.  
 

Those that hate him for signing the contract or because he was injured and hasn’t come back to form…..well, those people are a different story. 
 

Hate Beane for the contract.  Hate McD for playing him.  Hate Von for his off field stuff.  Just don’t hate him because he hasn’t lived up to his contract due to injury. 
 

 

 

[finn]

15 hours ago, JJGauna said:

Opposing teams are still double teaming him, so he is making an impact regardless of his stats. Hopefully playoff Von comes up when we need him most.

In what games have you seen him double teamed? I've only seen him blocked--easily--by a tackle. Typically, Miller goes wide, and the tackle steers him away from the play. For example, watch him in this All-22 review of Oliver's performance against the Chargers. No double teams, no impact other than occupying a single blocker, which the water boy could have done. 

 

I haven't seen his every play, but the Athletic All-22 review of the Chargers game out today confirms my impression that Miller was a non-factor. Says Jonathan and Settle made more impact with far fewer snaps. 

 

 

7 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I don’t think Von fully recovered and came back too soon. He was so good before the injury. He doesn’t even look like the same player now. You could tell by the tone in McDermott voice at his presser today that something else could be goin on

Something else like what? I don't follow. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

32 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I get it but imo it is hard for some fans to seperate the two issues. I know that it is for me.

 

As far as on field play, I thought that Miller was a bit old to get a huge contract but that doesn't make me hate him, or stupid.  

 

You can't force a victim to testify against their perp, so the conversation WRT that topic is moot... I don't see any value in talking about it if the victim won't cooperate. No updates by the DA = she's not cooperating and there is no new evidence. Incredibly sad, but true.

Edited December 28, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[boyst]

39 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ok…..and you can’t stand him because why?

 

Beane: ”hey von, here’s some cash up front.  It’ll allow us to sign more players and is more cash in hand for you!”

 

von: “sounds good”

 

The GM wanted him to restructure….he agreed to something that the GM thought was helping the team….and you can’t stand the player?  🤷🏻‍♂️ doesn’t make sense to me

it's not perfect logic. hell, it might not even qualify as logic.

 

but i didn't like his contract to start and then moving to extend more years on it was gross.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, boyst said:

it's not perfect logic. hell, it might not even qualify as logic.

 

but i didn't like his contract to start and then moving to extend more years on it was gross.

Whatever floats your boat