The DB Dilemma

[Punching Bag]

34 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Douglas can plug a hole for a couple years… corner or safety imo

 

 

Douglas seems very Hyde-like.

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I could see them drafting a Safety on Day 2, another on Day 3 and keeping Poyer for one more year. 

 

A little worried Mrs. Poyer will make another media stink if Bills do not extend him.

I'd like one quiet year.

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

We have Douglas for one year because after '24  I think he is going to get pretty big money.

 

If Tre is gone and we have room maybe we pay.

 

I like him a lot.

 

 

 

 

Extend Douglas.

[Punching Bag]

8 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

I see Hyde retiring. These neck injuries keep coming up this season. After the scare last year, I don't see why he would risk coming back. He's made his money. The next contact won't be worth the risk. I'm worried about him, I can't imagine how his family feels every time he makes a tackle. 

 

I can see him staying on practice squad because he loves football with him having "red shirt" in camp.

Bills can break glass in emergencies and he gets another year on his pension plan.

Maybe he looks at coaching - he would be a solid one.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Limeaid
Duplicate post

[Capco]

27 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

You need multiple corners. And you need guys that fit/know the system and communications. In a perfect scenario my depth chart would look something like this:

 

CB1: Douglas

CB2: White (on a pay cut with Jackson stepping in if not ready)

CB3: Jackson/Elam

CB4: Rookie

CB5: FA (lower level not major signing)

 

Safety - Benford

Safety - FA

Safety - Rookie

 

Give a nice mix of youth and experience at all levels with enough youth to be the long term answer moving forward.

 

There are many ways to go about it and truthfully I don't see any opinions as wrong at this point because there is a LOT that we just don't know. Will Tre heal? Would he take a pay cut to stay? Who will be available in FA? Who is sitting there when we pick? Will Elam suddenly figure things out?

 

The answers to those questions will dictate what needs to be done in the long run IMO.

I like this lineup, but I’d like to keep Poyer another year for the veteran presence and depth.

[juno999]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

I think we have to break this into three position groups:

 

Safety:

Micah Hyde - Free agent, going on 34, nagging injuries and lost a step. Gone.

Jordan Poyer - Cutting saves $5.5M. $2M dead cap. Gone.

Rapp - Free agent - Gone.

Hamlin - Last year of cheap contract. Maaaaaybe practice squad, otherwise gone.

Need 2 new starters and maybe 2 backups.

 

Slot Corner:

1) Taron Johnson - last year of extension, due $12M. I bet we extend him.

Need depth, maybe in late rounds?

 

Outside Corner:

1) Christian Benford - Solid 1/2 and under contract 2 more years. Injury concerns.

2) Rasul Douglas - Rock solid 2 and under contract for next year. No reason to extend yet.

3) Kaiir Elam - This is the upside guy you groom behind 1 and 2.  No reason to cut or trade.

4) Dane Jackson - Meh. Expired contract, would welcome him back on vet min for depth.

5) Tre White - cut or ideally injury settlement. Love you Tre.

Need injury insurance for Benford and ideally a stronger #1 corner. Is Elam that guy?

 

Thus, safety is the big need. Corner depth and hopefully upside can be found in late rounds.

 

To those suggesting we cut Kaiir Elam... why?

 

He has raw talent and is on a relatively cheap contract. It's an $8M dead cap hit to cut him and $3.7M to keep him on the roster next year. Why the hell would you pay double to not have him?

I believe Beane may sign Douglas to an extension this offseason to lower his cap hit in 2024.  He's  currently scheduled to make $9M next year.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The more I think about the Douglas trade the more I like it.

 

Saves us from a gigantic hole at CB next year and was a good Tre replacement mid season.

 

 

Chan can you imagine?  Honestly can you imagine if we did not have him?

 

Boy.

 

 

[corta765]

It goes like this for me:

 

Expect to be here next year:

Benford - CB2 perfect as that role

Douglas - I can see them adding another or year or two to space out the contract past 24' and lower his cap number

Johnson - Most underrated NCB in the league and they get another year of him

 

50/50:

Elam - I can see them trading him or I can see them bringing him back and seeing healthy if he can be more of what they thought

Jackson - He is free agent and done enough to probably earn a larger spot somewhere else for more money if it comes. Otherwise he is fine as a CB4/NCB mix

Poyer- If he is really to renegotiate I think they keep him for a year so the safety room isn't completely barren

 

Gone:

Hamlin - Hasn't shown enough and with a quieter off season it is easier to let him go

Hyde - Makes me sad to type as he was such a great signing and important piece that reset the foundation of the Bills, but the injuries are real and his play has dropped. Honestly hope he retires so he can be healthy

Tre White - Tre has three major things working against him 1. injuries 2. cap hit 3. log jam of CBs now in front of him. Tre at his best is ahead of any CB Buffalo has but with two major knee injuries as he approaches 30 he just isn't that guy anymore. The cap hit and savings is huge if he is gone and the risk to keep him doesn't justify the cost. Kills me to say as he was such a great important player, but someone will pay for what he was hoping he can regain form and I don't see him signing a cheap flyer to stay.

Rapp - Was worth a one year flyer to see if he could be a piece in the future. He isn't on to the next. 

With all of that said my expectation is this next year:

 

CB: Douglas, Benford, Johnson, Elam, draft pick rnd 4-6, vet free agent

SAF: Poyer, free agent modest money (Jalen Mills/Darnell Savage/Mike Edwards type), draft pick rnd 2-4, draft pick rnd 5-7, vet minimum FA (John Johnson type)

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

The more I think about the Douglas trade the more I like it.

 

Saves us from a gigantic hole at CB next year and was a good Tre replacement mid season.

 

The trade compensation was basically the comp pick and we got back a 5th.  Not terrible.  

[bigK14094]

1 hour ago, Ga boy said:

Extend Douglas.

Tre will need (another) recovery season like last year.  Bills can't afford that....and he is now "injury prone"  Can't afford to have that kind of guy take a roster spot.  Doesn't matter what he once was.

McD likes old guys, so maybe not so many cuts as this board speculates.  think of the guys from Carolina they  brought in that could barely function.  I can't remember the names anymore.

[Airseven]

Counting on the trio of White, Poyer, and Hyde to be healthy/effective going into the season was absurd. All three are broken and should be gone next season.

 

Elam has to be on the trade block in the spring - there's no recovering from this situation. I expect Beane to overpay Jackson in free agency for familiarity's sake. That leaves Douglas, Benford, Johnson, Jackson, and presumably a mid-round pick as the corps. 

 

While I was excited about the Rapp signing, I don't think he's earned another contract - disappointing. Safety has to be in the cards for draft day 2.

 

Neal, Hamlin, and Lewis (UFA) are irrelevant. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I'd extend Douglas for a couple years while you can do it for ,less money than waiting a year until he's a FA

 

Let Hyde go. may bring back Poyer but at less money, mainly don't want to have two new safeties in system same year and draft his replacement for 2025

 

I'd keep Elam for reasons mentioned unless they can get decent return on trade which is doubtful.

 

Probably let White go also unless he agrees to big pay cut.

 

Extend Johnson.

[BigAl2526]

Others have stated Buffalo will be looking for safety help in the off season.  I agree.  I don't think Buffalo has given up on Elam yet, but the clock is ticking.  I expect him to get a chance to be on the field before the end of the season and I think he'll be here for training camp.  Anything after that depends on him.  Benford in 2024 is a given, I think.  Dane Jackson probably sticks.  If Rasul Douglas is on a two year deal, he is too.  I'm not ruling out Tre white next season.  I think the Bills will wait until training camp to figure it out.  Other CBs are contract issues I will leave to the team to figure out.

[Rigotz]

2 hours ago, juno999 said:

I believe Beane may sign Douglas to an extension this offseason to lower his cap hit in 2024.  He's  currently scheduled to make $9M next year.

 

$9M is pretty reasonable for a solid #2 CB. I would hope they can get an extension done at less than that amount, but I don't think it's likely.

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

You trade him post 6/1 and save a couple million. Conditional 7th type deal.

 

I'll never understand this ... trading him after 6/1 does not save you a couple million.

 

Keep the 1st round Corner you drafted, when you need Corner depth (at worst) and develop him ...

 

Or flip him for a 7th and pay more to not have him? This is insane.

[schoolhouserock]

When McD was the DC in Carolina, they had a complete refresh of the DB’s that did not go so well. It coincided with Norman’s exit, I believe.

 

I seem to recall McD being asked about it early on during his Bills’ tenure. He made a remark that he felt the lack of continuity of leadership in the position group hurt more than he had anticipated. 
 

With that in mind, I could see the Bills hanging onto one of Hyde or Poyer for at least one additional season. I have a hard time seeing how both will be back, however. That pairing has, unfortunately, run its course.

[corta765]

Just now, schoolhouserock said:

When McD was the DC in Carolina, they had a complete refresh of the DB’s that did not go so well. It coincided with Norman’s exit, I believe.

 

I seem to recall McD being asked about it early on during his Bills’ tenure. He made a remark that he felt the lack of continuity of leadership in the position group hurt more than he had anticipated. 
 

With that in mind, I could see the Bills hanging onto one of Hyde or Poyer for at least one additional season. I have a hard time seeing how both will be back, however. That pairing has, unfortunately, run its course.

It is why I think Poyer ends up staying on a redone contract that has incentives he can hit. The CBs are fine with Douglas Benford Johnson, but safety wise even if they are refreshing I see him wanting one vet and Poyer has been decent enough to stay.

[BarleyNY]

CB - Douglas, prefer to extend

CB - Benford

N - Johnson, prefer to extend

FS - FA (or draft pick)

SS - Poyer

 

White - released w/post 6/1 designation

Hamlin - depth

Neal - depth or cut

Elam - developmental depth or trade

Hyde, Rapp - allow to leave in FA

Jackson, Lewis - allow to leave as FA unless kept as inexpensive depth 

Edited December 13, 2023 by BarleyNY

[billsfan89]

At corner I think they go with Benford, Douglas and Johnson as the starters not much controversy there. I do think they keep Elam as there is a reason they drafted him in round 1. Then I think they either cut Tre or rework his deal massively if he is willing to try to take a cut in order to try to play one more season. If they can keep Dane at a sensible price I also think they keep him for depth.

 

The questions at corner are more so what will they do after the starters? Who do they keep or bring in for depth?

 

Safety is a big can of worms. Hyde is a free agent and older, Poyer is on a small deal and could be cut or kept? Rapp is a free agent and Hamlin has one year left on his rookie deal.

 

I expect Rapp, Poyer and Hamlin to be back and a draft pick and another veteran depth player brought in.

[BuffaloBillyG]

17 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

CB - Douglas, prefer to extend

CB - Benford

N - Johnson, prefer to extend

FS - FA (or draft pick)

SS - Poyer

 

White - released w/post 6/1 designation

Hamlin - depth

Neal - depth or cut

Elam - developmental depth or trade

Hyde, Rapp - allow to leave in FA

Jackson, Lewis - allow to leave as FA unless kept as inexpensive depth 

I'm going to make a very bold prediction. If (and it is a big if) he hits FA, one of those safety spots next season will be filled by Kyle Duggar. I almost am positive if he's not re-signed by NE he would be a priority FA for Beane, who it's reported really liked him coming out of the draft. 

[BarleyNY]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I'm going to make a very bold prediction. If (and it is a big if) he hits FA, one of those safety spots next season will be filled by Kyle Duggar. I almost am positive if he's not re-signed by NE he would be a priority FA for Beane, who it's reported really liked him coming out of the draft. 

 

I believe that Dugger and Poyer play the same SS role so that would mean moving on from Poyer. I haven’t watched Dugger’s play so I don’t have an opinion on him, but I would not mind getting younger at S - especially if the money is right. 

[BrooklynBills]

Unfortunately, I also think White is likely a cut. The average return to play for Achilles is 11-12 months but that isn't peak performance. If he returned to form, we would likely see that in the 2025 season (which is his last under contract anyway).  I just think even a paycut doesn't make sense when you could possibly find an FA with a lower first year cap hit than White's potential paycut. And a paycut won't get his salary down that much. Even if he takes a paycut to the vet min of 1.65M (don't think they would touch the bonus money), his cap number would be 9.9M.  His dead cap for a regular cut would be 10.4M.

 

I'm not too worried about the Bills getting under the salary cap to start next offseason so lets just to play with some contract math here.  Lets say the Bills signed a pretty good CB in FA (Like a 14-16M cap hit - Jaylon Johnson please?) and cut Tre White.  That player's potential year 1 cap hit is likely in the 6M range.  So you could have a questionable Tre White at 29 signed for cap hits of 16M in 2024 and 16M in 2025. Or you could have a much better and younger player signed to cap hits of 6M in 2024 (plus White's dead money of 10M = 16M so thats a wash money wise) and likely less than 16M in 2025 and then signed to your team beyond 2025. It really becomes increasingly hard to justify not moving on from White (which sucks and is a tough decision but likely a necessary one). And that doesn't stop you from extending Douglas for a year or two.

[BrooklynBills]

13 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I believe that Dugger and Poyer play the same SS role so that would mean moving on from Poyer. I haven’t watched Dugger’s play so I don’t have an opinion on him, but I would not mind getting younger at S - especially if the money is right. 

 

I think Poyer is going to retire after this season.  We could ALOT of changeover in the secondary next year.

[Logic]

Put simply: If there's one area of the roster that I'm simply not concerned about as long as Sean McDermott is around, it's defensive backs.

I expect Douglas, Benford, Elam, and Jackson will be the outside quartet next season, with Taron Johnson at nickel and some late round camp competition brought in. Unfortunately, it may be time to bid farewell to the beloved TreDavious White. I wish it wasn't so, but the Bills have to find places to cut salary.

At safety, Hyde and Poyer will likely be gone, and McDermott will likely fill one spot through free agency (maybe Rapp, maybe someone else) and one spot through the draft. He'll coach the new guys up, as he always does with safeties. There will be a dip in production and cohesiveness early on, but once they get up to speed, it'll be all systems ago.

For whatever other deficiencies may exist across the roster going forward, call me crazy, but I'm not too worried about the DB room.

[Solomon Grundy]

23 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

We have Douglas for one year because after '24  I think he is going to get pretty big money.

 

If Tre is gone and we have room maybe we pay.

 

I like him a lot.

 

 

 

 

Elam, Douglas, Jackson, Rapp, Johnson and Benford are returning in my scenario. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

23 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Our DB room is way too fascinating for me to save this thread for the summer time. Do we have a position group with as many offseason storylines as our Defensive backs?

 

Micah Hyde will be 33 in a few weeks and is a free agent this summer. Father Time has started to catch up to him, and the team simply cannot have this starting safety duo back again next year. I have so much love and respect for Hyde (and Poyer), but I think their time is done barring a late season P-Squad signing for depth. 
 

Jordan Poyer is in the same boat. He is under contract for 2024, but a release saves the team 5m during an offseason where they are pretty far in the hole. He, like Hyde, is relying off instinct and intelligence right now over athletic ability. Neither is done athletically, but they’ve lost some of their juice. The team could hang on to Poyer, he’s a defensive Swiss Army knife and I like him in this weird “other nickel” roll he’s been doing with Taron Johnson and Nard-dog.  I wouldn’t hate seeing him as the primary backup for both FS and SS. Behind who, you say? 
 

Christian Benford, right now as a second year former 6th round pick, is a solid CB. That is a huge win. He isn’t spectacular, he is dependable though. There are plenty of games this year where he only has 0-3 targets. There is a very good shot he stays the teams #2 CB, but imagine for a moment what he looks like at SS? 6’1’’ 205, sound tackler (hasn’t missed a single tackle in 2023) and sound in zone coverage. I don’t know if the Bills create a hole to fill a hole, but CB lining up at CB may depend on someone else.

 

Kaiir Elam wasn’t traded, I think that’s worth mentioning. I don’t think the Bills will give up on the kid without trying everything first. I believe he competes for the #2 CB role again, but given the log jam at CB and the depletion at Safety, I think there is a shot he, at minimum, gets a mention at FS. Elite athlete and has ball skills, FS could be a good home for him if Benford stays at CB2. He has a narrative for being a poor tackler, but the numbers don’t support it. Outside his first month in the NFL, his missed tackle rate is actually pretty low. I’ll admit, my X’s and O’s knowledge is limited and there is wayyyy more that goes into a CB-FS transition than ball skills and athleticism, but it’s an interesting conversation nonetheless. 
 

Taron Johnson is basically a mini-LB and Dane Jackson is fine as a primary perimeter CB backup. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. If Elam and Benford both stay at CB, maybe the team experiment with Jackson at Safety but I don’t think he is consistent enough week in and week out to hold down a new position full time. I will say, he’s got the intensity for it. 
 

I’m not sure that they view Damar Hamlin as an every down starter at SS, seeing he’s been inactive every game. 
 

Tre White is the ultimate wildcard. He’s still in his prime age wise, he will be 29 in January. His injuries are well noted, I have no idea when we may see him return. He was looking pretty good before he got hurt, there is no question a healthy Tre White is our CB1. Releasing Tre saves 6m, but I’d be willing to bet he would re-work his deal to stay on the team. There are some players that you don’t bet against when it comes to overcoming injuries, Take Away Tre is one of them. Could Tre move to Safety? There is a difference between being a poor tackler and being an unwilling one. 
 

What are your thoughts? Do we bring back Hyde/Poyer? Do we keep the log jam at CB? Where would Christian Benford be utilized best? Will Tre White come back from this injury or is 6 million in cap savings too much to ignore? What would you try with Elam? 
 

🦬

1) Hyde: retiring. I would force this if I were the Bills. The neck and stinger issues are worrisome.

 

2) Poyer: back for one more year, to help new guys learn system.

 

3) Everyone else stays. Re Tre, they are keeping him. This guy is the heart and soul of this team, and they aren’t cutting a guy like that because of injury. 
 

[BBFL]

23 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Our DB room is way too fascinating for me to save this thread for the summer time. Do we have a position group with as many offseason storylines as our Defensive backs?

 

Micah Hyde will be 33 in a few weeks and is a free agent this summer. Father Time has started to catch up to him, and the team simply cannot have this starting safety duo back again next year. I have so much love and respect for Hyde (and Poyer), but I think their time is done barring a late season P-Squad signing for depth. 
 

Jordan Poyer is in the same boat. He is under contract for 2024, but a release saves the team 5m during an offseason where they are pretty far in the hole. He, like Hyde, is relying off instinct and intelligence right now over athletic ability. Neither is done athletically, but they’ve lost some of their juice. The team could hang on to Poyer, he’s a defensive Swiss Army knife and I like him in this weird “other nickel” roll he’s been doing with Taron Johnson and Nard-dog.  I wouldn’t hate seeing him as the primary backup for both FS and SS. Behind who, you say? 
 

Christian Benford, right now as a second year former 6th round pick, is a solid CB. That is a huge win. He isn’t spectacular, he is dependable though. There are plenty of games this year where he only has 0-3 targets. There is a very good shot he stays the teams #2 CB, but imagine for a moment what he looks like at SS? 6’1’’ 205, sound tackler (hasn’t missed a single tackle in 2023) and sound in zone coverage. I don’t know if the Bills create a hole to fill a hole, but CB lining up at CB may depend on someone else.

 

Kaiir Elam wasn’t traded, I think that’s worth mentioning. I don’t think the Bills will give up on the kid without trying everything first. I believe he competes for the #2 CB role again, but given the log jam at CB and the depletion at Safety, I think there is a shot he, at minimum, gets a mention at FS. Elite athlete and has ball skills, FS could be a good home for him if Benford stays at CB2. He has a narrative for being a poor tackler, but the numbers don’t support it. Outside his first month in the NFL, his missed tackle rate is actually pretty low. I’ll admit, my X’s and O’s knowledge is limited and there is wayyyy more that goes into a CB-FS transition than ball skills and athleticism, but it’s an interesting conversation nonetheless. 
 

Taron Johnson is basically a mini-LB and Dane Jackson is fine as a primary perimeter CB backup. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. If Elam and Benford both stay at CB, maybe the team experiment with Jackson at Safety but I don’t think he is consistent enough week in and week out to hold down a new position full time. I will say, he’s got the intensity for it. 
 

I’m not sure that they view Damar Hamlin as an every down starter at SS, seeing he’s been inactive every game. 
 

Tre White is the ultimate wildcard. He’s still in his prime age wise, he will be 29 in January. His injuries are well noted, I have no idea when we may see him return. He was looking pretty good before he got hurt, there is no question a healthy Tre White is our CB1. Releasing Tre saves 6m, but I’d be willing to bet he would re-work his deal to stay on the team. There are some players that you don’t bet against when it comes to overcoming injuries, Take Away Tre is one of them. Could Tre move to Safety? There is a difference between being a poor tackler and being an unwilling one. 
 

What are your thoughts? Do we bring back Hyde/Poyer? Do we keep the log jam at CB? Where would Christian Benford be utilized best? Will Tre White come back from this injury or is 6 million in cap savings too much to ignore? What would you try with Elam? 
 

🦬

Great post that covers valuable points on each player. 
 

I think it comes down to one or the other if the salaries are the same in Hyde/Poyer; leadership and ability to stay on the field. That nod goes to Poyer. Hopefully Hyde comes back on a cheap deal to have a crack at a SB if it doesn’t pan out this year. 
 

Benford is decent at CB. Can’t see them moving him elsewhere especially if that cap hit to Tre is something they move on from. 
 

2¢

[DrDawkinstein]

23 hours ago, Rigotz said:

I think we have to break this into three position groups:

 

Safety:

Micah Hyde - Free agent, going on 34, nagging injuries and lost a step. Gone.

Jordan Poyer - Cutting saves $5.5M. $2M dead cap. Gone.

Rapp - Free agent - Gone.

Hamlin - Last year of cheap contract. Maaaaaybe practice squad, otherwise gone.

Need 2 new starters and maybe 2 backups.

 

Slot Corner:

1) Taron Johnson - last year of extension, due $12M. I bet we extend him.

Need depth, maybe in late rounds?

 

Outside Corner:

1) Christian Benford - Solid 1/2 and under contract 2 more years. Injury concerns.

2) Rasul Douglas - Rock solid 2 and under contract for next year. No reason to extend yet.

3) Kaiir Elam - This is the upside guy you groom behind 1 and 2.  No reason to cut or trade.

4) Dane Jackson - Meh. Expired contract, would welcome him back on vet min for depth.

5) Tre White - cut or ideally injury settlement. Love you Tre.

Need injury insurance for Benford and ideally a stronger #1 corner. Is Elam that guy?

 

Thus, safety is the big need. Corner depth and hopefully upside can be found in late rounds.

 

To those suggesting we cut Kaiir Elam... why?

 

He has raw talent and is on a relatively cheap contract. It's an $8M dead cap hit to cut him and $3.7M to keep him on the roster next year. Why the hell would you pay double to not have him?

 

You nailed it.

 

The only thing I'd add is I'm open to offering Tre a 3/$18M deal with like $12M guaranteed. If for no other reason than to save us drafting a CB early.

 

We'll definitely need 3-4 new Safeties so I expect at least 2 drafted.

 

Or we re-sign Dane and Tre, move Douglas into Hyde's spot, and draft a CB in the early-mid rounds.

 

It will be real interesting to see what they do about the Defensive Backfield this offseason.

[FireChans]

50 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You nailed it.

 

The only thing I'd add is I'm open to offering Tre a 3/$18M deal with like $12M guaranteed. If for no other reason than to save us drafting a CB early.

 

We'll definitely need 3-4 new Safeties so I expect at least 2 drafted.

 

Or we re-sign Dane and Tre, move Douglas into Hyde's spot, and draft a CB in the early-mid rounds.

 

It will be real interesting to see what they do about the Defensive Backfield this offseason.

Do we really need Tre to prevent us from drafting CB early? He won’t play week 1, and won’t round into form for a while, so I’m not sure how that’s helpful.

 

Dane Jackson would be the one preventing us from drafting a CB early, imo. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Do we really need Tre to prevent us from drafting CB early? He won’t play week 1, and won’t round into form for a while, so I’m not sure how that’s helpful.

 

Dane Jackson would be the one preventing us from drafting a CB early, imo. 

 

Sure, either or both. There was just more to type about the Tre situation.

 

I do think re-signing Tre will push our CB pick back to the 4th or after. If it's just Dane, then I could see us looking for the better talent in the 3rd or even 2nd.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Sure, either or both. There was just more to type about the Tre situation.

 

I do think re-signing Tre will push our CB pick back to the 4th or after. If it's just Dane, then I could see us looking for the better talent in the 3rd or even 2nd.

 

 

I don’t see that high of a pick as a need for a guy who almost certainly won’t start. 
 

Our CB room is actually pretty roomy. I think Douglas and Benford are penciled in as starters. Anything above a third would surprise me, even if Tre is cut.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBills said:

 

I think Poyer is going to retire after this season.  We could ALOT of changeover in the secondary next year.

 

Poyer is due $5.5M in new money for 2024. I think that makes it worthwhile for the Bills to keep him and for him to play it out and then retire. However, you certainly could be correct. Maybe his body is telling him to step away now. Or maybe the Bills don’t want him back at that price - or even at all. Hyde’s contract is up so having some continuity at safety might play into it. Honestly, none of those outcomes would surprise me. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t see that high of a pick as a need for a guy who almost certainly won’t start. 
 

Our CB room is actually pretty roomy. I think Douglas and Benford are penciled in as starters. Anything above a third would surprise me, even if Tre is cut.

Definitely, if it is Douglas/Benford then a starting caliber safety can easily be had in rounds 2 or even 3. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBills said:

I think Poyer is going to retire after this season.  We could ALOT of changeover in the secondary next year.

 

What makes you say that about Poyer?

 

Hyde is a free agent after this season.  The Bills will have dead money on the books for him, which will remain dead money (I think) even if they re-sign him.  Hyde has 2 young kids, the neck surgery clearly haven't prevented him from having neck and back issues, and you'd think he might decide it's time to hang up his cleats while he can still play catch with his kids and teach them to ride bikes.

 

Poyer is under contract to the Bills in 2024.  He's got ~$5M in new money coming into his bank account next season.  I don't think he willingly gives that up.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Beck Water

[Mango]

You didn't mention anything about Douglas. I would be shocked if the Bills did not extend him. 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

You didn't mention anything about Douglas. I would be shocked if the Bills did not extend him. 

 

We have him under contract next year either way. But yes, it would make a ton of sense to give him a couple more years and some guaranteed money, and drop that cap hit next year from $9M to maybe something closer to $5M.

[Beck Water]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:32 AM, wppete said:

Hyde, Poyer and Tre need to be cut. Give Elam another chance and maybe move him to Sefety. 

 

Hyde will not be cut.  He can not be cut.  He will be a FA

[wppete]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Hyde will not be cut.  He can not be cut.  He will be a FA

He should retire. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Hyde will not be cut.  He can not be cut.  He will be a FA

 

[Beck Water]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:29 AM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Our DB room is way too fascinating for me to save this thread for the summer time. Do we have a position group with as many offseason storylines as our Defensive backs?

 

Micah Hyde will be 33 in a few weeks and is a free agent this summer. Father Time has started to catch up to him, and the team simply cannot have this starting safety duo back again next year. I have so much love and respect for Hyde (and Poyer), but I think their time is done barring a late season P-Squad signing for depth. 
 

Jordan Poyer is in the same boat. He is under contract for 2024, but a release saves the team 5m during an offseason where they are pretty far in the hole. He, like Hyde, is relying off instinct and intelligence right now over athletic ability. Neither is done athletically, but they’ve lost some of their juice. The team could hang on to Poyer, he’s a defensive Swiss Army knife and I like him in this weird “other nickel” roll he’s been doing with Taron Johnson and Nard-dog.  I wouldn’t hate seeing him as the primary backup for both FS and SS. Behind who, you say? 
 

Christian Benford, right now as a second year former 6th round pick, is a solid CB. That is a huge win. He isn’t spectacular, he is dependable though. There are plenty of games this year where he only has 0-3 targets. There is a very good shot he stays the teams #2 CB, but imagine for a moment what he looks like at SS? 6’1’’ 205, sound tackler (hasn’t missed a single tackle in 2023) and sound in zone coverage. I don’t know if the Bills create a hole to fill a hole, but CB lining up at CB may depend on someone else.

 

Kaiir Elam wasn’t traded, I think that’s worth mentioning. I don’t think the Bills will give up on the kid without trying everything first. I believe he competes for the #2 CB role again, but given the log jam at CB and the depletion at Safety, I think there is a shot he, at minimum, gets a mention at FS. Elite athlete and has ball skills, FS could be a good home for him if Benford stays at CB2. He has a narrative for being a poor tackler, but the numbers don’t support it. Outside his first month in the NFL, his missed tackle rate is actually pretty low. I’ll admit, my X’s and O’s knowledge is limited and there is wayyyy more that goes into a CB-FS transition than ball skills and athleticism, but it’s an interesting conversation nonetheless. 
 

Taron Johnson is basically a mini-LB and Dane Jackson is fine as a primary perimeter CB backup. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. If Elam and Benford both stay at CB, maybe the team experiment with Jackson at Safety but I don’t think he is consistent enough week in and week out to hold down a new position full time. I will say, he’s got the intensity for it. 
 

I’m not sure that they view Damar Hamlin as an every down starter at SS, seeing he’s been inactive every game. 
 

Tre White is the ultimate wildcard. He’s still in his prime age wise, he will be 29 in January. His injuries are well noted, I have no idea when we may see him return. He was looking pretty good before he got hurt, there is no question a healthy Tre White is our CB1. Releasing Tre saves 6m, but I’d be willing to bet he would re-work his deal to stay on the team. There are some players that you don’t bet against when it comes to overcoming injuries, Take Away Tre is one of them. Could Tre move to Safety? There is a difference between being a poor tackler and being an unwilling one. 
 

What are your thoughts? Do we bring back Hyde/Poyer? Do we keep the log jam at CB? Where would Christian Benford be utilized best? Will Tre White come back from this injury or is 6 million in cap savings too much to ignore? What would you try with Elam? 
 

🦬

 

This is a great post, thanks for putting this together.

 

Three players you don't mention: 

Rasul Douglas, who is still under contract for 2024.  I would be shocked if the Bills don't extend him.  I think he's played very well, and would certainly be our #1 CB if Tre White can't come back (and maybe even fight for the #1 spot if Tre does come back)

 

Taylor Rapp, who will be a free agent.  I see him as a mixed bag.  He can make plays, yes, but the Friendly Fire, Man!  Sheesh!

 

Cam Lewis.  He has caused many Bills fans PTSD with some big misses in his play. He will be a free agent.  The Bills have him as the primary backup at NCB and at Safety, ahead of Damar Hamlin.  He can also play boundary CB in a pinch.  The Bills love his versatility.

 

3 minutes ago, wppete said:

[Hyde]
He should retire. 

 

I agree

Edited December 14, 2023 by Beck Water

[DrDawkinstein]

21 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Poyer is due $5.5M in new money for 2024. I think that makes it worthwhile for the Bills to keep him and for him to play it out and then retire. However, you certainly could be correct. Maybe his body is telling him to step away now. Or maybe the Bills don’t want him back at that price - or even at all. Hyde’s contract is up so having some continuity at safety might play into it. Honestly, none of those outcomes would surprise me. 

 

Poyer is a $7.5M hit if he stays, or a $2M hit if cut, and we are strapped for cash. He's as good as gone. And should be. He's a shell back there this year, it will only be worse next year.

 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I'm going to make a very bold prediction. If (and it is a big if) he hits FA, one of those safety spots next season will be filled by Kyle Duggar. I almost am positive if he's not re-signed by NE he would be a priority FA for Beane, who it's reported really liked him coming out of the draft. 

 

Let's make signs and recruit him Takeo Spikes style during our NE game. I like him.