Beck Water Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, Mango said: FWIW #1- I spoke to a friend in the DA’s office today and basically simplified it to. “If you have a warrant and you’re released on bail you have a charge. If prosecution wants to go sit in front of a judge and trial is a different story”. FWIW #2 - I jumped into a legal subreddit to ask this question and somebody responded that in Texas penal procedure authorizes bail in two situations. - Someone is charged with a crime - Someone who was arrested without a warrant. Von had a warrant, was not arrested at the scene of the crime. So a charge would need to be present. I the league is purposely muddling the situation so they don’t have to act. If the Bills do have an out in his contract like some have rumored, voiding $17M will be a historical move and likely trigger further litigation for the league. Add in it being for a first ballot HOF’er, and it is beneficial for the league to be intentionally pedantic. Thank you very much for your research and for sharing this. It does go against what's said on a number of other legal sites. On the other hand, many of them are not specific to Texas. This document is: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/CR/htm/CR.15.htm You might notice the description of a warrant of arrest does not mention charges being filed - simply that it must name the offense of which the person is accused, and that further down there is a statement "IF charges are filed" which implies that a warrant may be issued without charges and the charges are separate Further down it says "The magistrate shall allow the person arrested reasonable time and opportunity to consult counsel and shall, after determining whether the person is currently on bail for a separate criminal offense and whether the bail decision is subject to Article 17.027, admit the person arrested to bail if allowed by law." Now it doesn't say that the law only allows the person arrested to bail if they have been charged. It would go against common sense that an arrested/not charged person could not obtain bail, while an arrested/charged person could obtain bale - but, to paraphrase what I said to Muppy, "these are legal proceedings. I'm expecting them to make sense. That's my mistake. That's where I'm going wrong." So I'm left unclear, based on the above Texas Legal Statutes site, whether your DA friend and legal subreddit advice are correct here 🤷♂️ I've been actually hoping to draw out one of our site lawyers/jurists to weigh in since it's well known the best way to get correct info on the Interweb is to post wrong info, but so far No Joy. You're certainly not wrong in that it is in the league's interest to obfuscate here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Thank you very much for your research and for sharing this. It does go against what's said on a number of other legal sites. On the other hand, many of them are not specific to Texas. This document is: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/CR/htm/CR.15.htm You might notice the description of a warrant of arrest does not mention charges being filed - simply that it must name the offense of which the person is accused, and that further down there is a statement "IF charges are filed" which implies that a warrant may be issued without charges and the charges are separate Further down it says "The magistrate shall allow the person arrested reasonable time and opportunity to consult counsel and shall, after determining whether the person is currently on bail for a separate criminal offense and whether the bail decision is subject to Article 17.027, admit the person arrested to bail if allowed by law." Now it doesn't say that the law only allows the person arrested to bail if they have been charged. It would go against common sense that an arrested/not charged person could not obtain bail, while an arrested/charged person could obtain bale - but, to paraphrase what I said to Muppy, "these are legal proceedings. I'm expecting them to make sense. That's my mistake. That's where I'm going wrong." So I'm left unclear, based on the above Texas Legal Statutes site, whether your DA friend and legal subreddit advice are correct here 🤷♂️ I've been actually hoping to draw out one of our site lawyers/jurists to weigh in since it's well known the best way to get correct info on the Interweb is to post wrong info, but so far No Joy. You're certainly not wrong in that it is in the league's interest to obfuscate here I looked at the link you posted, including the "Requisites of a Warrant" section. It says as follows: "[The warrant] must state that the person is accused of some offense against the laws of the State, naming the offense." In this instance "accused of some offense" is most certainly synonymous with "charged with a crime". I don't believe there is any meaningful distinction between being "accused" by the state and "charged". Since an arrest warrant was issued for Miller, that warrant had to list the crime he was accused of, which we understand was a third degree felony assault. He was taken into custody and released on bail. I don't know how anyone could contend that he has not been formally charged with a crime. Doesn't mean he'll stand trial or be indicted, or whatever, but I don't think there's any question that he's been "charged". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Thank you very much for your research and for sharing this. It does go against what's said on a number of other legal sites. On the other hand, many of them are not specific to Texas. This document is: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/CR/htm/CR.15.htm You might notice the description of a warrant of arrest does not mention charges being filed - simply that it must name the offense of which the person is accused, and that further down there is a statement "IF charges are filed" which implies that a warrant may be issued without charges and the charges are separate Further down it says "The magistrate shall allow the person arrested reasonable time and opportunity to consult counsel and shall, after determining whether the person is currently on bail for a separate criminal offense and whether the bail decision is subject to Article 17.027, admit the person arrested to bail if allowed by law." Now it doesn't say that the law only allows the person arrested to bail if they have been charged. It would go against common sense that an arrested/not charged person could not obtain bail, while an arrested/charged person could obtain bale - but, to paraphrase what I said to Muppy, "these are legal proceedings. I'm expecting them to make sense. That's my mistake. That's where I'm going wrong." So I'm left unclear, based on the above Texas Legal Statutes site, whether your DA friend and legal subreddit advice are correct here 🤷♂️ I've been actually hoping to draw out one of our site lawyers/jurists to weigh in since it's well known the best way to get correct info on the Interweb is to post wrong info, but so far No Joy. You're certainly not wrong in that it is in the league's interest to obfuscate here Yes you can be arrested without being charged. You seem to be doubling down on arrest v charges and leaving out bail. The argument for whether or not Von has been charged is being argued by the only people it matters to, the leagues attorneys. Which is sort of what my friend at the DA’s office was getting at. If the league wanted, Vons arrest has enough teeth to elicit a suspension. Full stop. But you keep arguing that people need to understand the difference. And they don’t. If this were your neighbor on your left you wouldn’t go to the neighbor on your right with “well no; check out this link, Joe hasn’t officially been charged even though the police were here, an arrest warrant was issued, and he posted bail. So why don’t we pop over for his Memorial Day BBQ”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Just now, Mango said: Yes you can be arrested without being charged. You seem to be doubling down on arrest v charges and leaving out bail. Um. Two of the four paragraphs in my post were about bail. " "Further down it says "The magistrate shall allow the person arrested reasonable time and opportunity to consult counsel and shall, after determining whether the person is currently on bail for a separate criminal offense and whether the bail decision is subject to Article 17.027, admit the person arrested to bail if allowed by law." Now it doesn't say that the law only allows the person arrested to bail if they have been charged. It would go against common sense that an arrested/not charged person could not obtain bail, while an arrested/charged person could obtain bale - but, to paraphrase what I said to Muppy, "these are legal proceedings. I'm expecting them to make sense. That's my mistake. That's where I'm going wrong." " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Um. Two of the four paragraphs in my post were about bail. " "Further down it says "The magistrate shall allow the person arrested reasonable time and opportunity to consult counsel and shall, after determining whether the person is currently on bail for a separate criminal offense and whether the bail decision is subject to Article 17.027, admit the person arrested to bail if allowed by law." Now it doesn't say that the law only allows the person arrested to bail if they have been charged. It would go against common sense that an arrested/not charged person could not obtain bail, while an arrested/charged person could obtain bale - but, to paraphrase what I said to Muppy, "these are legal proceedings. I'm expecting them to make sense. That's my mistake. That's where I'm going wrong." " A magistrate is a judge, so start there. Von saw a judge. Yes, you can be arrested without a charge. I believe I addressed that in my post. Bail is allowed to be set in two instances, 1. Arrested with a warrant. 2. Arrested at the scene of a crime without a warrant. Von had a warrant. Then saw a judge who set bail. It is so odd that you are so hell bent on making sure everybody understands whatever pedantics that the league is trying to sell to prevent outrage and prevent their own further litigation with Von. Edited December 10, 2023 by Mango 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Um. Two of the four paragraphs in my post were about bail. " "Further down it says "The magistrate shall allow the person arrested reasonable time and opportunity to consult counsel and shall, after determining whether the person is currently on bail for a separate criminal offense and whether the bail decision is subject to Article 17.027, admit the person arrested to bail if allowed by law." Now it doesn't say that the law only allows the person arrested to bail if they have been charged. It would go against common sense that an arrested/not charged person could not obtain bail, while an arrested/charged person could obtain bale - but, to paraphrase what I said to Muppy, "these are legal proceedings. I'm expecting them to make sense. That's my mistake. That's where I'm going wrong." " So I obviously don't know how it works, but my issue when I heard he posted bail and they were saying he wasn't charged is that what was the bail for? What are you paying bail to be released for if you are not charged with a crime? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. Like if he hadn't posted bail what would he be sitting in jail for? Edited December 10, 2023 by Warcodered 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Warcodered said: So I obviously don't know how it works, but my issue when I heard he posted bail and they were saying he wasn't charged is that what was the bail for? What are you paying bail to be released for if you are not charged with a crime? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. Like if he hadn't posted bail what would he be sitting in jail for? Correct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Mango said: So why don’t we pop over for his Memorial Day BBQ”. What’s on the menu? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) Of course, we’re going to win the Super Bowl with Von and everyone will say we have an asterisk* and we will have to win a 2nd one to show that we are legit very Billsy Edited December 10, 2023 by Bills!Win! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, mannc said: Admittedly, criminal law is not my specialty, but I have no idea how one can be arrested, taken into custody, and forced to post bond without actually being charged with a crime. They can be depending on the state, but I also find that to be some whacky bull crap. Make someone pay or sit in jail without even a pending charge. Not sure what the legal way is in Dallas. Edited December 10, 2023 by Scott7975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 14 hours ago, Warcodered said: So I obviously don't know how it works, but my issue when I heard he posted bail and they were saying he wasn't charged is that what was the bail for? What are you paying bail to be released for if you are not charged with a crime? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. Like if he hadn't posted bail what would he be sitting in jail for? Per some internet attorney bail can be required in two situations: - When somebody is charged with a crime - Somebody is arrested without a warrant. Von had a warrant. So he would fall into option 1. In general when one is arrested without a warrant it is at the scene of a crime. Like if Von was at the home after the 911 call. Or if you got pulled over going 100 mph down the 290. I’ve seen the line Beck posted and read it a number of times the last week or so. It does not answer the question asked. The league certainly has enough teeth to suspend Von. They are being purposefully pedantic for their own benefit. Some posters are defending it. 11 hours ago, Bills!Win! said: Of course, we’re going to win the Super Bowl with Von and everyone will say we have an asterisk* and we will have to win a 2nd one to show that we are legit very Billsy I would be thrilled if the Bills made the SB and Von was put on the exempt list early in the new year, missing his 3rd ring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 A lot of hair-splitting going on here. Yes, he's charged with a crime - a felony. That means the judge, DA and police figured there was enough evidence to issue a warrant for his arrest. He was arrested and posted bail. Yes, he's facing charges. But the extent of that is that right now the judge, DA and police have gone as far as they can. If they want to proceed with a criminal trial, in Texas, just like in many other states, the DA must first secure a grand jury indictment. Another phrase for grand jury indictment is "formal charge." Miller has been charged and arrested. He has not been formally charged to the point where he could be put on trial for the crime. Media reports, of course, don't have the time, space nor the inclination to make these kinds of distinctions in their breaking news stories. It's just easier (and not wrong, but not entirely forthcoming either) to say "facing charges." I suspect if a grand jury were to hand down an indictment (formal charges), Miller would be suspended by the league immediately. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 he’s active for today (as if there was any doubt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag20 Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Weird decision. Hopefully he’s self conscious about his effort and turns it up a notch from where it’s been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Jones Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, RiotAct said: he’s active for today (as if there was any doubt). If he does see live action, I suspect that any time he trots out onto the field, he will get mercilessly booed....and rightfully so. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnieo64 Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Why is he playing??? WTF!!! He is absolutely useless on top of all the allegations. Really disappointed in the Bills decision making here 👎☹️! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 I can say today was his best game since his return. No knee brace. He looked explosive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 Just now, BillMafia716ix said: I can say today was his best game since his return. No knee brace. He looked explosive. He just needed that last bit of contact practice this week to finally get back into game shape! (too soon? probably should go there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Von claims all reports are overblown and 100% false 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Get to lifeing or get to dieing I always say. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 "sometimes life just.....be life-ing" The Defense rests... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSkills Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, Simon said: Von claims all reports are overblown and 100% false how can they be overblown AND 100% false? how can both be true?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 minute ago, BuffaloSkills said: how can they be overblown AND 100% false? how can both be true?? Something happened- but it didn’t include domestic violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Von Miller faces felony arrest in Buffalo Breaking news this morning that Buffalo Bills EDGE rusher Von Miller is facing felony arrest after being accused of straight up robbing the Buffalo Bills of more than $17 million dollars this season. Several sources confirm that Miller, 34 plans to continue his theft of team funds for the foreseeable future. We reached out to Miller's representatives however they did not immediately respond. More on this story as it develops. 1 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 10 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Von Miller faces felony arrest in Buffalo Breaking news this morning that Buffalo Bills EDGE rusher Von Miller is facing felony arrest after being accused of straight up robbing the Buffalo Bills of more than $17 million dollars this season. Several sources confirm that Miller, 34 plans to continue his theft of team funds for the foreseeable future. We reached out to Miller's representatives however they did not immediately respond. More on this story as it develops. Cute, but the untold side of the story is Brandon being convinced to buy magic beans. (No pun intended...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 i am glad this guy plays football because i do not think he could make it as easily in the real world. he comes off better than most football players, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYfan Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Von was worth the contract until he was injured. It is unfortunate and maybe should have been foreseeable, but I cannot blame OBD for taking a swing at the fences...that was last year's Lombardi. Now we are hobbled by the contract and lack of production, but I don't blame the player as I believe he is giving maximum effort, and I don't blame "McBean" for going all in. I am optimistic Von will have a stronger year next year. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 43 minutes ago, CNYfan said: I am optimistic Von will have a stronger year next year. Boy, that is going out on a limb. I don’t think it is possible for him to be any worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Grundy Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 If the accusation is ‘overblown’, then it’s not ‘100% false’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Simon said: Von claims all reports are overblown and 100% false Is anyone else sick and tired of seeing Von's football-underperforming face in front of the media? Show up and show out, or Shut up, Von. I would love to hear from Floyd or Bernard or even Epenesa or Ty Johnson- someone who is dinged and has been critical to the team when they've played. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, it's also never a good idea for a person with potential legal charges against him to speak out in public. Edited December 29, 2023 by Beck Water 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 I was wondering if they'd had him talk to the media since then when this popped up, but I guess this is his first interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I was wondering if they'd had him talk to the media since then when this popped up, but I guess this is his first interview. Quote: "Sometimes life just be lifin." [Cringe]. The sooner we can move off this chump, not soon enough, imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeam Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Man I hated this contract when we signed it. I understand that we needed to get someone who could get after Mahomes after losing to him in the playoffs but that was a steep price to pay. The fact that it was essentially a 3 year contract helped but then they restructured it only compounded things. I really like Beane but this is one of his biggest blunders. That and the Knox contract. Unfortunately, we can't get out of these contacts until 2025. 4 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Quote: "Sometimes life just be lifin." [Cringe]. The sooner we can move off this chump, not soon enough, imho. Who knows maybe he will turn up during the playoffs and all will be right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Sometimes life just be lifin and ya gotta lay hands on ya woman. Knaw mean? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Sometimes life just be lifin and ya gotta lay hands on ya woman. Knaw mean? *shudder* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Beck Water said: Is anyone else sick and tired of seeing Von's football-underperforming face in front of the media? Show up and show out, or Shut up, Von. I would love to hear from Floyd or Bernard or even Epenesa or Ty Johnson- someone who is dinged and has been critical to the team when they've played. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, it's also never a good idea for a person with potential legal charges against him to speak out in public. 100% pending legal case any defense attorney is going to tell him to Zip it. As far as his on field performance to me those 2 things are apples and oranges. I try to keep it separate in my mind since I want the best for him. And hate the off field crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 4 hours ago, muppy said: 100% pending legal case any defense attorney is going to tell him to Zip it. As far as his on field performance to me those 2 things are apples and oranges. I try to keep it separate in my mind since I want the best for him. And hate the off field crap. He's already done pretty well for himself--what is there left you would want for him? We should want more from him--on and off the field, no? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He's already done pretty well for himself--what is there left you would want for him? We should want more from him--on and off the field, no? lol- great post! Way to contribute! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: He's already done pretty well for himself--what is there left you would want for him? We should want more from him--on and off the field, no? that's fair. I meant his football skills to be at the level they were before his injury. For the benefit of my / our football team. Laws are laws and they are enforceable for everyone. Of course I would prefer that people don't break laws. *shrugs* Edited December 29, 2023 by muppy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 I don’t give a rats *ss about his relationship problems, I want more on field production and hopefully Epenesa drastically cuts into Vons snaps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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