Von Miller faces arrest in domestic violence case in Dallas

[BillsFanSD]

15 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

So you rather raping a child over hitting an adult woman. I think they are both wrong but feel that the rape is way worse.

Matt Araiza didn't rape anybody.  If you read the police complaint, he wasn't even accused of raping anybody -- the accuser was very careful to make sure to say that she couldn't recall whether Araiza actually participated in the gang rape or not.  You've been misinformed by people in the media.  

 

Edit: Also, a 17 year-old isn't really a "child" for the purposes of this discussion.  She's a sexually-mature adult who can legally consent to sex in most US states and most of our peer countries.  I'm guessing most of us were sexually active when we were 17, and we know that's normal.  

Edited December 7, 2023 by BillsFanSD

[colin]

based on his play and his contract, i hope he gets a quick conviction and we nullify so our cap improves.

[Starr Almighty]

2 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

Matt Araiza didn't rape anybody.  If you read the police complaint, he wasn't even accused of raping anybody -- the accuser was very careful to make sure to say that she couldn't recall whether Araiza actually participated in the gang rape or not.  You've been misinformed by people in the media.  

 

Edit: Also, a 17 year-old isn't really a "child" for the purposes of this discussion.  She's a sexually-mature adult who can legally consent to sex in most US states and most of our peer countries.  I'm guessing most of us were sexually active when we were 17, and we know that's normal.  

I was replying to a comment here that said what Von did is worse than what Matt did. What exactly did Von do? He's only accused of doing something we don't know what he did. If you read 2 posts above yours you would see where I had to explain to that poster that I was comparing accusations. Why would I still believe he did something he was cleared of months ago?

[fergie's ire]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

Being proven in a court of law to choke your pregnant girlfriend is cause for suspension by the league.

 

 

But it does not need to be proven or even provable in a court of law in order for the league to suspend a player.  Just before Goodell became commissioner, it seemed like a different NFL player (usually, but not always, a Cincinnati Bengal) was getting arrested.  Chris Henry, in particular, was getting arrested all the time but not found guilty.  It gave the impression that the league was full of criminals who used their money and fame to get off.  So, Goodell came in on a campaign of being the guy who would clean it up.  He instituted policies that allowed players to be suspended even if not found guilty.  He has included these policies in the collective bargaining agreement.  Think about Ezekial Elliot who was suspended for six games for domestic abuse even though he was never charged.  Basically, if the NFL decides they want to suspend him, they can suspend him.  The latest collective bargaining agreement puts some limitations on the judge, jury, executioner powers...but not a lot.

 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So how does one prove that 1) assault occurred, rather than something consensual that maybe went a step far and frightened the woman (or some other exculpatory scenario 2) Miller was the assailant?

 

There is evidence to collect and assemble that might paint a convincing picture supporting one or the other side. 

 

 

 

"My boyfriend is choking and hitting me... I have bruises all over me," she can be heard saying. "My hair is out."

Asked by the 911 dispatcher if her boyfriend was still with her, the girlfriend said, "He just stormed out."

"I don’t know," she said when asked by the dispatcher if she needed paramedics. "He pulled my hair out. I have, like, some blood on me -- but not, like… yeah, I don’t know."

 

 "the girlfriend began filming the incident on her phone own phone, which she put in her pocket. The affidavit said Miller then grabbed her and pushed her onto the couch, again placing pressure around her neck with both hands."

 

"Officers arrived and found Miller's longtime girlfriend with "minor abrasions" on her left hand and bruising on her neck -- "injuries consistent with applied pressure to the neck," according to an arrest warrant affidavit obtained by WFAA."

 

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

 

But it does not need to be proven or even provable in a court of law in order for the league to suspend a player.  Just before Goodell became commissioner, it seemed like a different NFL player (usually, but not always, a Cincinnati Bengal) was getting arrested.  Chris Henry, in particular, was getting arrested all the time but not found guilty.  It gave the impression that the league was full of criminals who used their money and fame to get off.  So, Goodell came in on a campaign of being the guy who would clean it up.  He instituted policies that allowed players to be suspended even if not found guilty.  He has included these policies in the collective bargaining agreement.  Think about Ezekial Elliot who was suspended for six games for domestic abuse even though he was never charged.  Basically, if the NFL decides they want to suspend him, they can suspend him.  The latest collective bargaining agreement puts some limitations on the judge, jury, executioner powers...but not a lot.

 

 

Dallas police have body cams and are required to turn them on for any call they are answering. In addition to the recording submitted to police, I will be very curious if they ever get released. Once this case is closed they should be fully subject to FOIA.

 

As somebody who has done some work on local committees through the state I am fairly familiar FOIA. Beane made a comment that pinged my ears. Something along the lines of "I think this one is going to be left open for a little bit".

 

Quote

Determining the applicability of this Exemption 7 subsection thus requires a two-step analysis focusing on (1) whether a law enforcement proceeding is pending or prospective, and (2) whether release of information about it could reasonably be expected to cause some articulable harm. (4)

 

It is beyond question that Exemption 7(A) is temporal in nature and is not intended to "endlessly protect material simply because it [is] in an investigatory file." (7) Thus, as a general rule, Exemption 7(A) may be invoked so long as the law enforcement proceeding involved remains pending, (8) or so long as an enforcement proceeding is fairly regarded as prospective (9) or as preventative. (10)

 

Although Exemption 7(A) is temporal in nature, it nevertheless remains viable throughout the duration of long-term investigations.

 

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

[Warcodered]

Meanwhile other former Bills fan favorite:

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Dallas police have body cams and are required to turn them on for any call they are answering. In addition to the recording submitted to police, I will be very curious if they ever get released. Once this case is closed they should be fully subject to FOIA.

 

As somebody who has done some work on local committees through the state I am fairly familiar FOIA. Beane made a comment that pinged my ears. Something along the lines of "I think this one is going to be left open for a little bit".

 

 

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

 

who is burying public records?

[stlbills13]

He'll have the same stats whether he plays or not. So at this point you might as well sit him and avoid any sort of blowback

[Mike in Horseheads]

I hope he plays like he is running from the law!

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I hope he plays like he is running from the law!

Well he turned himself in so maybe not like that.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

 

The recording of Kareem Hunt assaulting a woman over and over was released, and where is he today?

 

The league nor most fans care about it even when it is released, obviously. Watson got all that bad press and tweets and yet A MAN WHO ASSAULTED A WOMAN is still on their roster and crickets...

 

https://www.tmz.com/2018/11/30/kc-chiefs-kareem-hunt-attacked-kicked-woman-surveillance-video/

[JerseyBills]

Von definitely paid her a nice bag to say it was b.s

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

"My boyfriend is choking and hitting me... I have bruises all over me," she can be heard saying. "My hair is out."

Asked by the 911 dispatcher if her boyfriend was still with her, the girlfriend said, "He just stormed out."

"I don’t know," she said when asked by the dispatcher if she needed paramedics. "He pulled my hair out. I have, like, some blood on me -- but not, like… yeah, I don’t know."

 

 "the girlfriend began filming the incident on her phone own phone, which she put in her pocket. The affidavit said Miller then grabbed her and pushed her onto the couch, again placing pressure around her neck with both hands."

 

"Officers arrived and found Miller's longtime girlfriend with "minor abrasions" on her left hand and bruising on her neck -- "injuries consistent with applied pressure to the neck," according to an arrest warrant affidavit obtained by WFAA."

 

 

Right, bright eyes.

 

You're the prosecutor.  The alleged victim is now saying it's all overblown, it's all a mistake, and no one was assaulted.

 

How do you prove that the 911 call is the truth, and what she's saying now is cap?

 

How do you prove that her injuries were, in fact, caused by Von Miller - who was not at the scene when police arrived?  The girlfriend's pocket recorded audio.  You bring your experts in voice analysis, Von Miller will bring his.  Guess who can buy better experts?

 

The point isn't that there was not evidence leading to a judge to decide there was probable cause to issue an arrest warrant.  There was, as you note.

 

The point is that in the absence of a victim who is willing to testify, or who now testifies that nothing happened and she was exaggerating on the 911 call (because she became frightened during a consensual BDSM-type scene, say) - what exactly are the facts?  What is subject to proof?

It's not so simple to sort from a legal basis.

 

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Von definitely paid her a nice bag to say it was b.s

 

Quite possibly. 

Also quite possibly, she's enmeshed in the typical DV cycle and currently in the "remorse"/pursuit phase.
 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

 

But it does not need to be proven or even provable in a court of law in order for the league to suspend a player.  Just before Goodell became commissioner, it seemed like a different NFL player (usually, but not always, a Cincinnati Bengal) was getting arrested.  Chris Henry, in particular, was getting arrested all the time but not found guilty.  It gave the impression that the league was full of criminals who used their money and fame to get off.  So, Goodell came in on a campaign of being the guy who would clean it up.  He instituted policies that allowed players to be suspended even if not found guilty.  He has included these policies in the collective bargaining agreement.  Think about Ezekial Elliot who was suspended for six games for domestic abuse even though he was never charged.  Basically, if the NFL decides they want to suspend him, they can suspend him.  The latest collective bargaining agreement puts some limitations on the judge, jury, executioner powers...but not a lot.

 

 

You are correct and I've commented on this several times upthread.  The league can, and has, but they usually let the legal process play out and complete their own investigation first - all of which takes time.

 

In the Zeke Elliot case you cite, the league "sat on it"/investigated for more than a year before issuing a suspension.

 

The league has never swept in (that I can think of) and suspended a player at the 'accusations' stage.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[Malazan]

I like how many people who have previously defended Bills players to "let the process play out" are now calling for Von's head. It's amazing how opinions change depending on the skill of the player. 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Right, bright eyes.

 

You're the prosecutor.  The alleged victim is now saying it's all overblown, it's all a mistake, and no one was assaulted.

 

How do you prove that the 911 call is the truth, and what she's saying now is cap?

 

How do you prove that her injuries were, in fact, caused by Von Miller - who was not at the scene when police arrived?  The girlfriend's pocket recorded audio.  You bring your experts in voice analysis, Von Miller will bring his.  Guess who can buy better experts?

 

The point isn't that there was not evidence leading to a judge to decide there was probable cause to issue an arrest warrant.  There was, as you note.

 

The point is that in the absence of a victim who is willing to testify, or who now testifies that nothing happened and she was exaggerating on the 911 call (because she became frightened during a consensual BDSM-type scene, say) - what exactly are the facts?  What is subject to proof?

It's not so simple to sort from a legal basis.

 

 

Quite possibly. 

Also quite possibly, she's enmeshed in the typical DV cycle and currently in the "remorse"/pursuit phase.
 

 

 

wow bright eyes. ok.

 

anyway, I was correcting your inference had not been collected. It obviously has been.  The objective evidence are her own words and then also the responding officer's physical assessment that her appearance was consistent with the actions she described. In Texas, making a false 911 call is a Class A misdemeanor.  Charge her.

 

This "BDSM" defense hasn't even been brought up by the victim, but...kudos for you for going there.  The "hey it wasn't Von Miller, it was some other dude who sounds just like him!  I just wanted Vin Miller to get arrested for it (because I love him and he's good to me)....so I could then say, wait it wasn't Von, it wasn't the other dude who sounds just like him......it was NOBODY!  Never happened.  This is insane and sad!. This is actually outrageous!" defense pretty much speaks for itself...

 

 

[T master]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:35 AM, ALLinALLEN said:

This year is a mess

 

It's go too be the Madden curse !!! 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

23 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Dallas police have body cams and are required to turn them on for any call they are answering. In addition to the recording submitted to police, I will be very curious if they ever get released. Once this case is closed they should be fully subject to FOIA.

 

As somebody who has done some work on local committees through the state I am fairly familiar FOIA. Beane made a comment that pinged my ears. Something along the lines of "I think this one is going to be left open for a little bit".

 

 

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

"Police" and "body cams mysteriously off" happen enough times that it's a cliche

[Nephilim17]

Maybe Von bought 100 subscriptions to Dunne's article! "Yeah, yeah, that's the story you guys all need to focus on, that's the one!"

[LabattBlue]

22 hours ago, Malazan said:

I like how many people who have previously defended Bills players to "let the process play out" are now calling for Von's head. It's amazing how opinions change depending on the skill of the player. 

What examples are you referring to?

[zow2]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:40 PM, Malazan said:

I like how many people who have previously defended Bills players to "let the process play out" are now calling for Von's head. It's amazing how opinions change depending on the skill of the player. 

 

True, but It's such an easy out this week for the Bills to leave a clearly unproductive player on the bench this week.  What are they not seeing about his play on the field that every fan is seeing?  He's a non-factor and what's worse, Von gives up on the play when he's easily pushed aside.  Not giving anywhere close to 100% in my opinion. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:40 PM, Malazan said:

I like how many people who have previously defended Bills players to "let the process play out" are now calling for Von's head. It's amazing how opinions change depending on the skill of the player. 

 

So if you're going to make accusations like that, name names so they can defend themselves.

[Mango]

I’m failing to see how these Von Millers story is much different than this?

 

On October 23 Ross thought his GF was cheating on him. Broke some stuff. Told her to leave. Shoved her. Released on $2500 bail. 
 

Suspended 6 weeks until his hearing on Dec 4. 

 

https://amp.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article281640478.html

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

I’m failing to see how these Von Millers story is much different than this?

 

On October 23 Ross thought his GF was cheating on him. Broke some stuff. Told her to leave. Shoved her. Released on $2500 bail. 
 

Suspended 6 weeks until his hearing on Dec 4. 

 

https://amp.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article281640478.html

No difference at all, except Miller is a star and Ross is JAG. And Miller’s bail was $5,000.

[T master]

I have a question . When something like this happens are those that actually write the contract & those that agree to pay it have a clause in it that if something like this happens (especially being a felony offense) does that give the team a out on the contract & better yet does it take that cap hit away from the team ?

 

I really hate that Von has gotten himself into this mess but it's all on him so if this does work out to where his gal can't recant her statement as far as the assault & the Bills/NFL has to make the call and release him what happens as far as the financial obligations to the Bills ?

 

I for one would think that every contract would have some kind of clause in it that if this kind of thing happens the team that the player has the contract with should be null & void and not have to honor their end of the agreement .

 

Which if it takes Von as long as it normally does to come back from his ACL like it did Tre this could be a blessing of sorts for the Bills because they could actually use that cap space for more young players or to keep the likes of others much younger that are performing at a high level like Leonard Floyd . 

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, T master said:

I for one would think that every contract would have some kind of clause in it that if this kind of thing happens the team that the player has the contract with should be null & void and not have to honor their end of the agreement .

 

That used to be Jim Overdorf's responsibility which he rarely executed.  For many years when new GMs were hired they were told Jim Overdorf was a staff member and would have input into team especially contracts.  Brandon Beane was told he had option of consulting Jim Overdorf and his new job title was "Senior advisor to the GM/football operations".   Buffalo Bills staff page has been updated to include Dallass based Legends staff and currently he is not listed, At one point Overdorf was named Interim General Council replacing dismissed Kathryn D’Angelo.

 

Interim GC Overdorf is a longtime football operations advisor, having joined the Bills in 1986. He will stand in while the Bills find a permanent replacement for D’Angelo.

[Buddy Hix]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

I’m failing to see how these Von Millers story is much different than this?

 

On October 23 Ross thought his GF was cheating on him. Broke some stuff. Told her to leave. Shoved her. Released on $2500 bail. 
 

Suspended 6 weeks until his hearing on Dec 4. 

 

https://amp.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article281640478.html

I think the NFL is aware the Bills would use the suspension to try and get out from the horrendous deal that Miller has, which would cause a huge headache for the league and NLFPA.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:27 PM, Beck Water said:

 

You are correct and I've commented on this several times upthread.  The league can, and has, but they usually let the legal process play out and complete their own investigation first - all of which takes time.

 

In the Zeke Elliot case you cite, the league "sat on it"/investigated for more than a year before issuing a suspension.

 

The league has never swept in (that I can think of) and suspended a player at the 'accusations' stage.

 

Adrian Peterson missed 15 games in 2015 starting from the same stage that Von Miller is at (being arrested). It looks like the Vikings deactivated him for 1 game, then the league put him on the NFLs exempt list for 9 weeks, then the league suspended him the remainder of the season. 

 

I'm pretty surprised the league hasn't put him on the exempt list. Maybe they are playing chicken with the Bills to see if we sit him on our own.  

 

[BillsFanForever19]

Honest question and I'm sorry if it's been covered - but how can you be arrested, have bail set, post bail, and not be charged with a crime? 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

No difference at all, except Miller is a star and Ross is JAG. And Miller’s bail was $5,000.

 

The difference is right in the headline of the linked article in the post. 
"Charge against Chiefs receiver Justyn Ross upgraded to felony in domestic violence case"

 

See the key word "charge"?  Ross was charged.  That's why he went on the "exempt" list.

 

[BillsfaninSB]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The difference is right in the headline of the linked article in the post. 
"Charge against Chiefs receiver Justyn Ross upgraded to felony in domestic violence case"

 

See the key word "charge"?  Ross was charged.  That's why he went on the "exempt" list.

 

See post just above yours.  How can someone be arrested but not charged?  

Edited December 9, 2023 by BillsfaninSB

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Adrian Peterson missed 15 games in 2015 starting from the same stage that Von Miller is at (being arrested). It looks like the Vikings deactivated him for 1 game, then the league put him on the NFLs exempt list for 9 weeks, then the league suspended him the remainder of the season. 

 

I'm pretty surprised the league hasn't put him on the exempt list. Maybe they are playing chicken with the Bills to see if we sit him on our own.  

 

 

No, Peterson was not at the "same stage Von Miller is at" (being arrested.

 

Peterson was indicted by a grand jury Sept 12 and placed on the exempt list 5 days later.

 

The league has said they will wait to act until/unless there are charges.  That's apparently their standard for "exempt list"

2 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

See post just above yours.  How can someone be arrested but not charged?  

 

This has been explained multiple times up thread.

 

The bottom line TL;DR is:

Police can arrest someone they have 'probable cause' to determine to have committed a crime. 

This is different than charges, which are filed by a prosecutor or by a Grand Jury.

 

A person can be indicted or charged without being arrested

A person can be arrested without being charged (anyone who is arrested can plea for bail)

 

Don't believe me?  ==> Google

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[mannc]

34 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The difference is right in the headline of the linked article in the post. 
"Charge against Chiefs receiver Justyn Ross upgraded to felony in domestic violence case"

 

See the key word "charge"?  Ross was charged.  That's why he went on the "exempt" list.

 

Are we really going to do this again?  Von Miller has been charged with a third degree felony assault.  (A quick google search will confirm this.)  Miller was arrested on this charge and then released on bail.  The charges are pending. So, no different than Ross. 

 

From CBS News:  "The 34-year-old Miller faces a charge of third-degree felony assault of a pregnant woman, which is punishable by 2 to 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. He is free after posting a $5,000 bond."

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by mannc

[realtruelove]

20 minutes ago, mannc said:

Are we really going to do this again?  Von Miller has been charged with a third degree felony assault.  (A quick google search will confirm this.)  Miller was arrested on this charge and then released on bail.  The charges are pending. So, no different than Ross. 

 

From CBS News:  "The 34-year-old Miller faces a charge of third-degree felony assault of a pregnant woman, which is punishable by 2 to 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. He is free after posting a $5,000 bond."

 

Arrested on suspicion of third degree felony assault.

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, mannc said:

Are we really going to do this again?  Von Miller has been charged with a third degree felony assault.  (A quick google search will confirm this.)  Miller was arrested on this charge and then released on bail.  The charges are pending. So, no different than Ross. 

 

From CBS News:  "The 34-year-old Miller faces a charge of third-degree felony assault of a pregnant woman, which is punishable by 2 to 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. He is free after posting a $5,000 bond."

 

 

We'll apparently do it as many times as necessary. 

 

I grant you that the media is not writing in a way that clarifies the distinction but "facing" a charge, means to the media, "according to what you're said to have done, these are the charges that could be filed against you." not "you have been charged with these crimes".  It's kind of an unclear way of writing about it.

 

But Miller has not (as far as I know still) been formally charged with a crime

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/von-miller-has-no-comment-on-felony-assault-charge

Quote

Bills edge rusher Von Miller, who is facing a third-degree felony assault of a pregnant woman charge, had no comment when reporters approached him at his locker after Thursday’s practice, Alaina Getzenberg of ESPN reports.

same article

Quote

The woman since has said no assault took place, and the NFL will not put Miller on the Commissioner Exempt list unless he is “formally charged” with a crime.

See the distinction they're making "facing" vs. not "formally charged"?

 

It's the same one the NFL is making, like it or don't (and there are things to like about it)

 

I'm not sure what CBS news item you're looking at but some of the ones I've seen are even worse for blurring the distinction

 

3 minutes ago, realtruelove said:

Arrested on suspicion of third degree felony assault.

 

Again:

Arrested on suspicion does not equal charged

Police can arrest you when they believe (and get a judge to agree)  they have 'probable cause' that you committed a crime (arrested on suspicion)

 

Charges have to be filed by a prosecutor or a Grand Jury

 

If he were being arrested and charged it would be "arrested on charges of...."

He can also be charged without being arrested, and issued a summons to appear in court to answer for the charges

 

At which point we are going way over my paygrade.

 

But that's the distinction the NFL is making

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

We'll apparently do it as many times as necessary. 

 

I grant you that the media is not writing in a way that clarifies the distinction but "facing" a charge, means to the media, "according to what you're said to have done, these are the charges that could be filed against you." not "you have been charged with these crimes".  It's kind of an unclear way of writing about it.

 

But Miller has not (as far as I know still) been formally charged with a crime

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/von-miller-has-no-comment-on-felony-assault-charge

same article

See the distinction they're making "facing" vs. not "formally charged"?

 

It's the same one the NFL is making, like it or don't (and there are things to like about it)

 

I'm not sure what CBS news item you're looking at but some of the ones I've seen are even worse.

Admittedly, criminal law is not my specialty, but I have no idea how one can be arrested, taken into custody, and forced to post bond without actually being charged with a crime.   

[realtruelove]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We'll apparently do it as many times as necessary. 

 

I grant you that the media is not writing in a way that clarifies the distinction but "facing" a charge, means to the media, "according to what you're said to have done, these are the charges that could be filed against you." not "you have been charged with these crimes".  It's kind of an unclear way of writing about it.

 

But Miller has not (as far as I know still) been formally charged with a crime

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/von-miller-has-no-comment-on-felony-assault-charge

same article

See the distinction they're making "facing" vs. not "formally charged"?

 

It's the same one the NFL is making, like it or don't (and there are things to like about it)

 

I'm not sure what CBS news item you're looking at but some of the ones I've seen are even worse for blurring the distinction

 

 

Again:

Arrested on suspicion does not equal charged

Police can arrest you when they believe (and get a judge to agree)  they have 'probable cause' that you committed a crime (arrested on suspicion)

 

Charges have to be filed by a prosecutor or a Grand Jury

 

If he were being arrested and charged it would be "arrested on charges of...."

He can also be charged without being arrested, and issued a summons to appear in court to answer for the charges

 

At which point we are going way over my paygrade.

 

But that's the distinction the NFL is making

I was agreeing with you.

[Pete]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:40 PM, Malazan said:

I like how many people who have previously defended Bills players to "let the process play out" are now calling for Von's head. It's amazing how opinions change depending on the skill of the player. 

Felony assault on a pregnant woman is uncharted territory for Bills and you can’t just levy that charge out of thin air

[Mango]

30 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We'll apparently do it as many times as necessary. 

 

I grant you that the media is not writing in a way that clarifies the distinction but "facing" a charge, means to the media, "according to what you're said to have done, these are the charges that could be filed against you." not "you have been charged with these crimes".  It's kind of an unclear way of writing about it.

 

But Miller has not (as far as I know still) been formally charged with a crime

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/von-miller-has-no-comment-on-felony-assault-charge

same article

See the distinction they're making "facing" vs. not "formally charged"?

 

It's the same one the NFL is making, like it or don't (and there are things to like about it)

 

I'm not sure what CBS news item you're looking at but some of the ones I've seen are even worse for blurring the distinction

 

 

Again:

Arrested on suspicion does not equal charged

Police can arrest you when they believe (and get a judge to agree)  they have 'probable cause' that you committed a crime (arrested on suspicion)

 

Charges have to be filed by a prosecutor or a Grand Jury

 

If he were being arrested and charged it would be "arrested on charges of...."

He can also be charged without being arrested, and issued a summons to appear in court to answer for the charges

 

At which point we are going way over my paygrade.

 

But that's the distinction the NFL is making

FWIW #1- I spoke to a friend in the DA’s office today and basically simplified it to. “If you have a warrant and you’re released on bail you have a charge. If prosecution wants to go sit in front of a judge and trial is a different story”.

 

FWIW #2 - I jumped into a legal subreddit to ask this question and somebody responded that in Texas penal procedure authorizes bail in two situations.

- Someone is charged with a crime

- Someone who was arrested without a warrant.

Von had a warrant, was not arrested at the scene of the crime. So a charge would need to be present. 
 

I the league is purposely muddling the situation so they don’t have to act. If the Bills do have an out in his contract like some have rumored, voiding $17M will be a historical move and likely trigger further litigation for the league. Add in it being for a first ballot HOF’er, and it is beneficial for the league to be intentionally pedantic. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mango
Words