What’s your opinion of Gabe Davis on this play?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Are you ok with the result or do you think this should’ve been a much bigger play?

 

To me this is exactly why I believe he’s not good enough. Davis runs a simple route vs zone. Allen makes an unbelievable throw setting up what I believe should’ve been a long TD.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Are you ok with the result or do you think this should’ve been a much bigger play?

 

To me this is exactly why I believe he’s not good enough. Davis runs a simple route vs zone. Allen makes an unbelievable throw setting up what I believe should’ve been a long TD.

 

 

There are a lot of examples of Davis being subpar. This to me isn't one of them. 

 

He actually found a good spot to sit in the zone, caught the ball and turned upfield for some YAC. This was a good play. 

 

The places where he HASN'T been good enough are when he's cutting off routes and Allen is seeing something different.

[Simon]

Gabe Davis is not going to run away from a bunch of NFL DB's.

They are just too fast.

[BillsFan130]

Good find.

To your point if that’s an above average speed WR, that goes for another 20-30 yards or even a TD

[Bray Wyatt]

I dont think it would have been a TD but feel like if he just kept running toward the sideline he would have had a lot more yards

[BuffaloBillies]

Probably could have angled toward the sideline more after catch for a couple extra yards. But I'm just glad he caught it.

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, BuffaloBillies said:

Probably could have angled toward the sideline more after catch for a couple extra yards. But I'm just glad he caught it.

 

Truth!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

There are a lot of examples of Davis being subpar. This to me isn't one of them. 

 

He actually found a good spot to sit in the zone, caught the ball and turned upfield for some YAC. This was a good play. 

 

The places where he HASN'T been good enough are when he's cutting off routes and Allen is seeing something different.

This to me is 100% why he’s not good. I think he simply ran his route. I don’t think this is an option or anything.

[Brand J]

He’s not a quick twitch WR, but if Davis was faster and more explosive, he would’ve got away from #32, but #29 will catch just about every guy in the league since he had a head start. Maybe a freak like Tyreek Hill could run away from everyone there. Maybe. I think even he gets caught though.

[Dan Darragh]

I've wondered whether Davis' failure to shine is a lack of talent or whether he was being schemed into oblivion by the play calling.

 

I guess we're about to find out.

[BillsFan2313]

He did everything fine there, he just doesn't have the speed to do more

[Royale with Cheese]

He isn't running away from people after a catch where he's catching a ball static....he doesn't have acceleration to get by DB's.  

He's a big body WR that is a threat downfield because he his size and he is fast at about the 20 yard mark.  He's like King Koopa in MarioKart.

[bmur66]

I was happy he caught it.

[somnus00]

To the people who don't think Josh is elite... this throw is ridiculous.

[zow2]

I was sold on Gabe a few years ago., and was wrong.  Can't wait till next season when he's not here.  Allen will have a new cast of characters to throw the ball to.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This to me is 100% why he’s not good. I think he simply ran his route. I don’t think this is an option or anything.

Against zone that is a read play. The odds that his route just happened to rest in the soft part of the zone are pretty obscure IMO. I'm not a huge Davis defender by any means...but this was a good play.

 

Your claim that he's not good because he ran his route is....weird. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, BillsFan2313 said:

He did everything fine there, he just doesn't have the speed to do more

That’s the problem. 

 

Allen needs better from his WR here.

1 minute ago, somnus00 said:

To the people who don't think Josh is elite... this throw is ridiculous.

It’s an unbelievably difficult throw.

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Against zone that is a read play. The odds that his route just happened to rest in the soft part of the zone are pretty obscure IMO. I'm not a huge Davis defender by any means...but this was a good play.

 

Your claim that he's not good because he ran his route is....weird. 

I didn’t say he’s not good because he ran his route. I called the route simple. If you think it’s an option then I’ll say it was simple recognition.

 

The point is how mediocre Davis is after the catch. After his QB set him up with an amazing throw.

[BarleyNY]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

There are a lot of examples of Davis being subpar. This to me isn't one of them. 

 

He actually found a good spot to sit in the zone, caught the ball and turned upfield for some YAC. This was a good play. 

 

The places where he HASN'T been good enough are when he's cutting off routes and Allen is seeing something different.

 

Exactly this. /thread

Edited November 16, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Low Positive]

9 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

To the people who don't think Josh is elite... this throw is ridiculous.

The throw is elite. But we can pick nits here too. He bailed on a clean(ish) pocket early. He also had a really easy completion to Cook in the middle of the field to get a FD. It was an incredible throw, but the degree of difficulty on that is off the charts. But that's what you get with Josh.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Low Positive

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That’s the problem. 

 

Allen needs better from his WR here.

It’s an unbelievably difficult throw.

I didn’t say he’s not good because he ran his route. I called the route simple. If you think it’s an option then I’ll say it was simple recognition.

 

The point is how mediocre Davis is after the catch. After his QB set him up with an amazing throw.

 

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This to me is 100% why he’s not good. I think he simply ran his route. I don’t think this is an option or anything.

It's literally what you said. Literally.

 

I will agree it was an amazing throw. It was also in front of him and he had to bring it in. As good of a throw as it was it was a nice snag. That slowed him up. And yes, he doesn't have the quick twitch that some have...but he still turned it up field and gained YAC. 

 

Point being this is an odd play to single out and try to make the point that Davis sucks. There are far better options to prove that point 

[Irv]

Fire Davis.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, Irv said:

Fire Davis.

If I could vote off a player it’ll be him. Not even because I think someone here can do a better job. I’m just tired of him. He’s so mediocre talent wise.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Bob Jones]

Davis did good.

 

The most amazing thing about this play is Allen's throw though. There's only a handful of people on the planet who can do what he did on this play. I'd bet even the defensive secondary were looking at each other after the play and saying "WTF did I just see?" LOL

[Dablitzkrieg]

Gabe is not a fast processor for option routes.  His strength is deep route off script routes.  And of course run blocking

[colin]

he did well on that rep, maybe a more decisive turn and run post catch gets him more yards, but i'll take that all day.

 

so the second angle on the post confirmed something i've been thinking -- dbs are eating josh's lunch because they 1) can predict our silly plays and 2) just play zone and watch josh's eyes.  they don't get totally fooled if he looks off because they have an edge basically knowing what we are gonna do in certain (most?) formations and down and distances.

 

when allen is under center, they don't know his throwing spot (which he likes to change as well) so they wait for him to stop his drop back, when he turns his back to hand off or fake a hand off, the lbs freeze, and most importantly imo the dbs don't have any eyes to read so they just stare waiting for josh to turn around.

 

he's so athletic and good throwing the ball that he has a HUGE advantage in that situation.  it's sets up such zone beaters i go crazy when we run man killing mesh/rub routes against the clearest and most obvious zones.

[Gunsgoodtime]

I celebrate Gabe Davis's catches like a touchdown to counter his massive amount of drops and lack of offensive scoring altogether.  It helps even things out. 

[Low Positive]

If you pause that play and scrub through it, you'll see that Josh should have thrown the ball to Cook. I mean, he took the hardest option, and the ball was almost tipped by two Broncos players. We love this when it works out, but the risk factor there was really high.

[DrDawkinstein]

Found a good spot to sit in the zone. Even the faster WRs in the NFL arent going to run away from that coverage of where the DBs were and their leverage.

[Mango]

I remember this play and in the moment I was mildly annoyed, but in the context of the game it isn't even a blip for me. 

That said, I think he did a decent job of curing his route into the soft spot of the zone so he gets some points.

 

My quick $0.02 on the play is that I think he saw the safety had the angle on him, so he thought if he slipped inside the safety he could get a block and slow him down and take it to the house. Otherwise he saw the play ending 10 yards (or whatever) up field. He is fast but not quick, he won't get up to speed quickly. This isn't a part of Gabe's game that holds him back. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Mango

[DuckyBoys]

Gabe has limitations and the Bills keep trying to make him something he is not  His hands are still questionable and he is not good route runner Also he doesnt play as "big" as he is   Seems he and Josh have been not on the same page often but I blame that on a offense that has far too many decisions being made by both players on the same route  Enough of the endless option routes  Keep it simple

[gonzo1105]

I think both sides can be right here. The route is good, the catch is good, the throw is good. A WR with any type of quick twitch acceleration at least takes that another 20-30 yards if not a Touchdown. 

 

I have been a big proponent that ware too slow in a lot of areas particularly on defense but we also have some slower guys on offense as well that could use an upgrade in speed. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

I’m interested to see if there’s any difference in production over these last seven games with Brady calling the offense.  Not planning on it, but it will give the front office a different look as to whether they should in any way consider even an offer to Gabe or not.  We already know he doesn’t have the greatest hands, but can he at least be a playmaker anymore?  I’m not optimistic, but we will see.

[starrymessenger]

Josh actually made a couple other throws similar to this in the game where he was a half step ahead of the closing coverage, coverage that he did not throw over but through. The Davis throw was one that few if any other NFL QB even attempts, or if he does he gets picked, but obviously even other worldly arm talent is not always going to beat an NFL secondary when executing decisions like that. When I saw it my feeling was mostly of relief. And I wondered if Josh just doesn't see the safer option or always consciously opts for the bigger play. 

[somnus00]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

The throw is elite. But we can pick nits here too. He bailed on a clean(ish) pocket early. He also had a really easy completion to Cook in the middle of the field to get a FD. It was an incredible throw, but the degree of difficulty on that is off the charts. But that's what you get with Josh.

I agree. I wasn't absolving Josh's mistakes. He makes plenty.

 

But no amount of coaching can make a person good enough to make this play. Burrow couldn't make that throw.

 

But Burrow would've hit Cook for the first down. Like you said, that's what you get with Josh.

[Allen2Moulds]

We need an upgrade.  Sick of having a big WR, who doesn't know how to use his size.  Average or below average, when it comes to the most important aspects of a WR.  Route running, speed, and hands.  He's not above average at any of these things.  No surprise that he's invisible as often as he is. 

[Scott7975]

55 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

If you pause that play and scrub through it, you'll see that Josh should have thrown the ball to Cook. I mean, he took the hardest option, and the ball was almost tipped by two Broncos players. We love this when it works out, but the risk factor there was really high.

 

This is what makes Josh special and elite.  If you want a QB that just checks down every play just because it is there then you can just get Trent Edwards back.

[starrymessenger]

18 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

We need an upgrade.  Sick of having a big WR, who doesn't know how to use his size.  Average or below average, when it comes to the most important aspects of a WR.  Route running, speed, and hands.  He's not above average at any of these things.  No surprise that he's invisible as often as he is. 

Its early days so probably not especially relevant to where we are today but Cincinnati hasn't the cap to extend or even franchise Tee Higgins. He would upgrade the entire receiving corps. We would have 2 # 1 receivers. He will likely cost around 20 bucks a year.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

Its early days so probably not especially relevant to where we are today but Cincinnati hasn't the cap to extend or even franchise Tee Higgins. He would upgrade the entire receiving corps. We would have 2 # 1 receivers. He will likely cost around 20 bucks a year.

$20? 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

There are a lot of examples of Davis being subpar. This to me isn't one of them. 

 

He actually found a good spot to sit in the zone, caught the ball and turned upfield for some YAC. This was a good play. 

 

The places where he HASN'T been good enough are when he's cutting off routes and Allen is seeing something different.

 

 

You don't think his speed and quickness on that play are subpar?  

 

Don't get me wrong,  this play also illustrates the STRENGTH of his game........getting open 4-5 seconds WAY downfield after the snap..........but it IS also actually an example of him being subpar at the same time.

 

He's probably the slowest "deep threat" in the NFL.    Do I think he should have scored a TD?  No, but I'd characterize that as zero or negative RAC yards above expectation.   We just don't expect him to gain yards after the catch with a defender behind him(regardless of leverage/positioning) so we are not as surprised in hindsight.   If that was any other Bills receiver we'd all be lamenting the lack of speed.   The audible gasp of disappointment in the stadium when he got tackled so quickly speaks louder than words on the subject.

[Billsatlastin2018]

With Davis, to me it’s a win if he CATCHES the ***** ball! 
Period!
 

I have zero expectations that he can do more- like say there, drifting to the sideline for another 20 yards!