DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, TheWeatherMan said:

McD is a great leader, but he’s not a head coach that will win you championships.  

I don’t  disagree.  I am just stating what I believe Terry will do…which is not firing McD. 

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Araiza Curse said:

I want to hear more about what Q Spain has to say. 

Has anyone reached out to Ja Rule to get his take? 

[UKBillFan]

7 minutes ago, appoo said:

You just changed your goal posts from playoffs to regular season 

 

Apologies, thought you were talking overall. But those defeats will likely mean the Bills don't make the play offs this time around.

[Chandler#81]

5 minutes ago, From Roc to Ky bills fan said:

All due respect appoo, Superbowl windows are a young man's game...

Really? Aside from Mahomes winning twice, Brady and Matthew Stafford have won twice in 4 years as well -and they’ve got about 50 years of experience! They WERE their teams’ Super Bowl windows.

[BullBuchanan]

10 minutes ago, boyst said:

Have you seen anyone with the balls to do that to Josh?

Did you not see giants/bills post game? Josh loves him. 

Don't move the goalposts. You can't praise a notorious hothead who flies off the handle at the slightest miscue  "zen-like" and then just change your augment to support non-zenlike behavior being the actual positive thing about his coaching style.

Pick one.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to hear more about what Q Spain has to say. 

why not? It's not like he has anything else to do. He should change his Twitter name from Mr. Undrafted to Mr. Unrostered.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

4 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

McAfee: "It's still a team that looks like they have some ***** going on behind the scenes"

McAfee is close enough to a few bills and guys in the league that he knows exactly what's up with the bills 

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, gordong said:

that not really true,  he was horrible as OC gotta start somewhere.   

I think #17 has looked pretty bad as well.  Our WR's other then Diggs and maybe Shakir suck.  We have no big time speed on the outside like most teams do.  And we are rolling with the oldest RB in the league as our #2 guy.  

 

Then look at the defense.  Lots of injuries.  But can't stop anyone in crunch time week after week.  Year after year.  And we put a 5'8 inch corner on the Broncos best receiver on the play of the game.  And the icing on the cake was the 12 men last night on the final FG.  How is that Dorsey's fault?  McDermott should have been fired also today.  That shouldn't happen in HS football.  Let alone the NFL.  

 

Sure we have seen some major regression in Josh.  If it was because of Dorsey not coaching him up during OTA's, training camp, and during daily practices.  Then yes he should be fired.  But the problem with the team goes way beyond offensive play calling.  

 

[Bills aPHILLYate]

1 minute ago, BCAS Baritone said:

Given that a big part of our problem is Josh Allen right now, I am wondering who had a bigger negative effect on Josh - the OC (Dorsey) or the QB Coach (Brady).

 

I guess we will find out shortly.

I would have to go with the OC. If you see that there has clearly been struggles in the passing game because of (insert reason) then you supplement the offense with runs.

Cook should not see less than 15 runs a game at all. 

Phasing the run game out (even when it is working) is not the smart thing to do.

The offense isn't diverse enough to just rely on passing. 

Even with automatically knowing that Cook is not gonna be on the field in 95% of goal to go situations is a complete advantage to defenses. 

The offense was figured out basically after Miami. 

There was no different approach at all. 

[Livinginthepast]

45 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

It's also good for Josh to learn that his bad play has consequences. Everybody is a bit too comfortable at 1BD.

100% Josh needs to feel guilty for his part in this mess. He can play way better than last night. There's no excuse for that crap as much as Dorsey is culpable for the vanilla offense!

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

So the OC - despite being here just a year and a half, is the reason that Allen Has led the league in turnovers sicne he was drafted? It's the reason he has more career fumbles after 5 1/2 years of play than Montana did over 15? He has 127 turnovers in 87 games played. Do you understand how insane that is?

 

You understand how insane it is to pretend his first 2 seasons he was set up to succeed?  Kelvin Benjamin was his #1 WR when he was drafted.  We had no talent on this roster and Allen came from a small school and was totally raw.  

 

People like you like to lump in his career totals so you can use those early years to mask the last 3 years where he was an MVP finalist all 3.  Its insane.  

 

News flash:  Coming into 2023, Allen only had 4 more INTs than Mahomes and 3 more than Burrow over the past 2 regular seasons.  And Mahomes had more talent around him and a much better OL along with Andy Reid.  Burrow had an elite cast of weapons.  And Allen played half of one of those seasons with an injured throwing elbow.  

 

Bonus news flash:  Josh has 10 more (which is DOUBLE) the amount of TD's than Burrow and a lower turnover rate than Burrow in the post season despite only playing 1 more game than him.  

 

Allen is not the problem. 

[L Ron Burgundy]

Excellent.   The loss yesterday was mostly due to shoddy offense.  Yes we could have eeked out an extremely lucky win without the special teams gaffe but our offense should be playing better.   Much better.  We all know it.  

[boyst]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

Don't move the goalposts. You can't praise a notorious hothead who flies off the handle at the slightest miscue  "zen-like" and then just change your augment to support non-zenlike behavior being the actual positive thing about his coaching style.

Pick one.

I am not. As a coach during the week he was calm, collected. When times arise he stepped in

 

 

This isn't my singular take. This is from players. They said daboll was chill and easy to work with...

[bobobonators]

32 minutes ago, boyst said:

For those who don't know, I will say some things I've said before. It's on you to weigh it but...

 

Daboll was fed up with the way McDermott meddled with things. McDermott didn't earn respect and wasn't liked by many players, in turn daboll earned respect from the offense who bought into him. This caused a rift between McDermotts "process" and Dabolls calm zen like approach that guided our offense. Think back how relaxed we were.

 

With 13 seconds the trust daboll had earned shown in how that offense went out and executed precisely as a top team should with great talent. They were all in on trusting Daboll to put them in a position to win. McDermott had been over the shoulder much of the season with Frazier that year. As the game got tight at closing some felt as if McDermott took his hands off the wheel a little and lost composure/control. Frazier did a lot in those last minutes. The kickoff has McDermott coaching one thing but not the ST who had the kickoff and coverage out of sync. 

 

Players knew this. They were told all their career in Buffalo that there was a process and trust. And accountability. There were fights in the lockerroom and on the way back. To my knowledge no physical assaults, but peoppe pulled apart.

 

This was not even the first eyebrow raising issue. That was 2017 and the Peterman 5 pick game in SD. The entire team was against it. Team Captains told coach they didn't want it. Peterman comes in and throws 5 picks. By halftime players have texted a few friends and folks some pretty harsh words. No one could explain it. It was easily forgotten when we made the playoffs. Easily forgotten now.

 

Going back to 13 seconds - you can look at some interesting tidbits: Spain and coach argued, Hughes always being in the doghouse for no reason, Beasley completely abandoned and not supported to be himself, Araiza dropped, Levi Wallace getting tossed as a scapegoat, many others.

 

The lockeroom has a divide in the lockerroom that doesn't trust McDermott. That's part of the reason some players are here and stick/stuck (Lee Smith, AJ Klein).

 

There is a lot there that was seen and known by people around and left, even if we didn't like them. I would honestly love if Whaley came out and weighed in on his personal thoughts - it'd be a treat for that to be public. 

Daboll’s zen like approach? Want it Daboll that was berating Allen on the sidelines like Allen was a 10yr old? 
 

did you see Daboll chew out Tyrod Taylor - a veteran - just a few weeks ago? 
 

You lost me there. There is nothing zen about Daboll. 

[zow2]

Awesome.. C'mon Joe brady and sweep the Jets, Eagles, KC, Dallas, LAC, Pats, Phins.   That's doable right?

[Success]

Can anyone give a little background on Brady?  How was he when he was OC previously?

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Interesting.

 

McDermott feeling the heat.

Why don't we fire the idiot who hires all these failed coaches (Dennison, Farwell, Frazier,  Dorsey).  He's the real problem.  Always has been.  Always will be.  Figure it out Terry.  McDermott is an embarrassment. 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, bobobonators said:

Daboll’s zen like approach? Want it Daboll that was berating Allen on the sidelines like Allen was a 10yr old? 
 

did you see Daboll chew out Tyrod Taylor - a veteran - just a few weeks ago? 
 

You lost me there. There is nothing zen about Daboll. 

Holding players accountable vs being at practice is entirely different. You only see games.

[Warriorspikes51]

LSU offense time.   Scheme Diggs open. Get creative. Unpredictable.  Play Fournette as well 

[UKBillFan]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Don't move the goalposts. You can't praise a notorious hothead who flies off the handle at the slightest miscue  "zen-like" and then just change your augment to support non-zenlike behavior being the actual positive thing about his coaching style.

Pick one.

 

I think the point trying to be made (could be wrong) is the offense looked, more often that not, zen and in control on the field, even oif Daboll was going mad off it.

 

Not sure if I fully agree with that, though. There were some miserable performances from the offense under Daboll though, in fairness, they never went on an extended run of inepitude like this.

[DapperCam]

McDermott is coaching for his job now. If it is anything like how he handles high pressure game situations, it isn’t going to be pretty.

[UKBillFan]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You understand how insane it is to pretend his first 2 seasons he was set up to succeed?  Kelvin Benjamin was his #1 WR when he was drafted.  We had no talent on this roster and Allen came from a small school and was totally raw.  

 

People like you like to lump in his career totals so you can use those early years to mask the last 3 years where he was an MVP finalist all 3.  Its insane.  

 

News flash:  Coming into 2023, Allen only had 4 more INTs than Mahomes and 3 more than Burrow over the past 2 regular seasons.  And Mahomes had more talent around him and a much better OL along with Andy Reid.  Burrow had an elite cast of weapons.  And Allen played half of one of those seasons with an injured throwing elbow.  

 

Bonus news flash:  Josh has 10 more (which is DOUBLE) the amount of TD's than Burrow and a lower turnover rate than Burrow in the post season despite only playing 1 more game than him.  

 

Allen is not the problem. 

 

Josh was not the problem. He is part of the problem this year.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

wow

 

edit: the shock wore off. this means mcdermott felt pressure and now has even more upon him. if the rest of the season looks the same then we know it's not just the OC. this is McD playing for his job.

 

mcdermott also not holding himself accountable for benching cook. that was a betraying dorsey and setting him up to fail last night.

 

How do you know he's not holding himself accountable?   What do you want him to do?  Publicly fire himself?  Do you quit your job when you make a mistake at work to hold yourself accountable?  

 

Every evening, I hold up a mirror to myself and conduct what the army calls an "After Action Review."  I ask myself four questions.  What did I do right today?  What could have I done better?  What did I learn?  And what will I do differently going forward?    I don't discuss this with anyone.  This is my personal process to hold myself accountable and grow.  Maybe McD does something like this.  None of us know how McD holds himself accountable.  

[ngbills]

Special team coordinator squished under the McD bus

DC squished under the McD bus

OC squished under the McD bus

 

[TAinLack.]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

wow

 

edit: the shock wore off. this means mcdermott felt pressure and now has even more upon him. if the rest of the season looks the same then we know it's not just the OC. this is McD playing for his job.

 

mcdermott also not holding himself accountable for benching cook. that was a betraying dorsey and setting him up to fail last night.

Surprised McD didn't assume the O.C. position for the rare triple play of coaching responsibilities!

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by TAinLack.
spelling

[Lost]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

How do you know he's not holding himself accountable?   What do you want him to do?  Publicly fire himself?  Do you quit your job when you make a mistake at work to hold yourself accountable?  

 

Every evening, I hold up a mirror to myself and conduct what the army calls an "After Action Review."  I ask myself four questions.  What did I do right today?  What could have I done better?  What did I learn?  And what will I do differently going forward?    I don't discuss this with anyone.  This is my personal process to hold myself accountable and grow.  Maybe McD does something like this.  None of us know how McD holds himself accountable.  

 

 

Yes..

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

How do you know he's not holding himself accountable?   What do you want him to do?  Publicly fire himself?  Do you quit your job when you make a mistake at work to hold yourself accountable?  

 

Every evening, I hold up a mirror to myself and conduct what the army calls an "After Action Review."  I ask myself four questions.  What did I do right today?  What could have I done better?  What did I learn?  And what will I do differently going forward?    I don't discuss this with anyone.  This is my personal process to hold myself accountable and grow.  Maybe McD does something like this.  None of us know how McD holds himself accountable.  

 

His press conference last night for one.

[BillsFooteball]

I’m all for it but ok McDermott no more scapegoats. This is 100% on you. Losing big games in just an unbelievable fashion goes back to head coach, not any coordinator. Here’s to hoping Joe brings out best of Allen and this offense for this bleak season 

[BillsShredder83]

56 minutes ago, appoo said:

Thats not how this works 

genuinely asking..... ive seen here a bunch that beane cant fire mcd. does he have authority to fire dorsey? or did he rather? confusing power structure

even if we think mcd did it, did beane have power to do it outside of recommending or insisting?

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

How do you know he's not holding himself accountable?   What do you want him to do?  Publicly fire himself?  Do you quit your job when you make a mistake at work to hold yourself accountable?  

 

Every evening, I hold up a mirror to myself and conduct what the army calls an "After Action Review."  I ask myself four questions.  What did I do right today?  What could have I done better?  What did I learn?  And what will I do differently going forward?    I don't discuss this with anyone.  This is my personal process to hold myself accountable and grow.  Maybe McD does something like this.  None of us know how McD holds himself accountable.  

I think that he should have to stand at midfield after every home loss and let fans throw rotten tomatoes at him.

[Governor]

12 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

McD is a great leader, but he’s not a head coach that will win you championships.  

My gf said that it looks like the team doesn’t practice during the week. She knows nothing about football. This team comes out prepared maybe twice a season. Last year was no different. We were the worst 13-3 team in history and everyone knows it. I haven’t seen a complete game from these clowns since last years Rams game.

 

That is entirely on McD. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Governor

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You understand how insane it is to pretend his first 2 seasons he was set up to succeed?  Kelvin Benjamin was his #1 WR when he was drafted.  We had no talent on this roster and Allen came from a small school and was totally raw.  

 

People like you like to lump in his career totals so you can use those early years to mask the last 3 years where he was an MVP finalist all 3.  Its insane.  

 

News flash:  Coming into 2023, Allen only had 4 more INTs than Mahomes and 3 more than Burrow over the past 2 regular seasons.  And Mahomes had more talent around him and a much better OL along with Andy Reid.  Burrow had an elite cast of weapons.  And Allen played half of one of those seasons with an injured throwing elbow.  

 

Bonus news flash:  Josh has 10 more (which is DOUBLE) the amount of TD's than Burrow and a lower turnover rate than Burrow in the post season despite only playing 1 more game than him.  

 

Allen is not the problem. 

 

It is interesting you include total TD for Allen but then only rely on INT's without including fumbles. turnovers This is Allens 5th year averaging over a turn over per game or more. This is Mahomes 2nd and Burrow has only done it once. Both Mahomes and Burrow have been at 1.0 but never over.

 

I think there is room for a lot of things to be true at the same time. 

We need better WR's.
We need better coaching.
Allen needs to do better at taking care of the football in the air and on the ground. 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Mango

[boyst]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

How do you know he's not holding himself accountable?   What do you want him to do?  Publicly fire himself?  Do you quit your job when you make a mistake at work to hold yourself accountable?  

 

Every evening, I hold up a mirror to myself and conduct what the army calls an "After Action Review."  I ask myself four questions.  What did I do right today?  What could have I done better?  What did I learn?  And what will I do differently going forward?    I don't discuss this with anyone.  This is my personal process to hold myself accountable and grow.  Maybe McD does something like this.  None of us know how McD holds himself accountable.  

The history of McDermott is against this. From his scapegoat ST after 13 seconds to this 12 men on the field moment.

 

There used to be an argument that McDermott was too focused on defense and not enough on the rest. If that's the case why can't he count to 12? Why ain't he noticing 12 men, or someone else? All of these breakdowns around him show the sign. 

[Success]

It's the right move.

 

The biggest difference w/ this team is that we're simply not scoring points like we used to.  And we have a better line, running game & have added Kincaid.

 

Beyond that, Allen is regressing.  Someone needs to help him realize his potential. Dorsey had his shot.

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Allen is currently part of the problem

 

But here is the thing Allen is also 100% the solution 

[Bill from NYC]

Question for Bills Fans: Who do you think was the most responsible for Firing Dorsey?

 

A) Mr. Pegula

B) Beane

C) McDermott

 

I am of the very strong opinion that Mr. Pegula gave the power to McDermott to make moves like this, AND gave him final say wrt the draft. I also think that he was the one to fire Frazier. 

 

Jmo but curious as to what others think.

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

defense let every short yardage conversion possible happen. poor concepts. could not touch wilson. couldn't tackle. weren't aware of anything in space.

Defense was awful in the 4th qtr.  Let the Broncos move up and down the field.  We can't stop the short pass in the flats.  Watch the Broncos second TD.  Their RB walked into the end zone.  Bernard played well.  But noone on the outside can tackle other then Douglas.  

[boyst]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

His press conference last night for one.

He didn't talk about anything else but everyone else. A lot of "we's".

 

Leaders accept all responsibility, solely. He needs to say "I" when it's bad, we when it's good.  He doesn't. He's a chump clown

[BillsShredder83]

57 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Just so folks know….

 

Joe Brady was the OC In Carolina, Learned under Sean Payton for a couple years. Prior to coaching Burrow at LSU.

 

His QB was Teddy Bridgewater behind a terrible Oline who threw for nearly 4000 yards. With Mike Davis at RB.

 

Carolina had almost 3x 1000  yard WRs and Robbie Anderson had nearly 100 Catches.

 

I would say with half the talent this team has now he did pretty good. Hopefully his play calling style will have a difference 

 

 

 

 

he got fired mid season year 1 too didnt he? textbook sacrificial lamb from rhule

[hondo in seattle]

16 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

They had to do something...

 

As a fan, it can be hard to assign blame.  How much of the offense's woes can we put on Beane?  McD?  Dorsey?  The players?   Looking at Dorsey, he didn't create those turnovers.  You've got to blame the players.  Then again, there might be shortcomings on how Dorsey prepares the team that make turnovers more likely.  

 

But if I was McD, I'd probably fire Dorsey, too.  You gotta hold somebody accountable and Dorsey is the offensive orchestra conductor.  His musicians haven't been playing beautiful music lately.

 

I am concerned, though, that McD doesn't seem to have a great relationship with his coordinators.  I'm also not sure why anyone should expect Brady to do better but hopefully he does.