I’m scared to fire McDermott.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, it was Shanahan for Elway.

Lol yeah it was Manning and it wasn't a promotion from within

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

“lOoK AT ouR pREVioUs cOaChes mAN. NOt woRTH THe RiSk.”

 

Let’s address this coward mentality. Conservative mentality. No dog mentality. The soft mentality the Buffalo media has accepted along with some fans here.

 

Bills previous head coaches in the 2000’s and their QB’s up until McClappy was hired.

 

Wade- Flutie and Johnson

Williams- Johnson and Bledsoe

Mularkey- Bledsoe

Jauron- Losman and Checkdown Edwards

Gailey- Fitz

Marrone- Manuel and Orton

Rex- Tee Rod

McClap- Tee Rod and Allen

 

You notice something? Yeah, all of the prior coaches had horrible QB’s and lost here. Shocker!

Myth: “He (McClap) changed the culture 

Fact: We had a negative point differential and a soft schedule in 2017 when the drought was broken. He punted in OT against Indy and was playing for the tie. A fumble led to a win. Also, a guy named Andy Dalton threw a pass that was nothing short of a miracle to get us in. The following season we stunk and got lucky to land Allen. Ever since, the clown coach has hid behind his star QB. Look at the terrible losses over the years. At JAX, at NE, ran over by Jonathan Taylor, Houston playoff meltdown, curb stomped by Cincy last playoffs…

 

Myth: “Let’s fire Dorsey. It’s his fault.”

Fact:  Last year it was fire Frazier. It’s his fault. Leslie got the blame. Now, some of you are falling right into the same trap this Czar is going to spew at years end. Reality is if we hire a bright offensive mind who flourishes here, that guy is now gone in 2 years or less and we are stuck doing the same thing over. O, and even a great OC can’t cover up your clown HC horrible in game decision making. Your OC can’t cover up the obsession with defensive picks and big money to that side of the ball. Your OC can’t cover up the conservative scared coaching approaches like punting before half or kicking field goals down 2 scores. YOUR OC CANT COVER UP 13 SECONDS.

 

In conclusion, I’m sick and freakin tired of the scared Buffalo media who won’t call this guy out. Guys like Adam Schein and Ross Tucker don’t hesitate to address the incompetence of McClap. Last comments…

 

Jerry Kraus told Doug Collins to hit the bricks and promoted a guy named Phil Jackson to get the Bulls over the hump led by a guy named Michael Jordan. Did it work? 6 rings boss.

 

Warriors told Mark Jackson to hit the bricks and hired a guy named Steve Kerr. Did it work? 4 rings.

 

Brass Balls Howie Roseman told his SUPER BOWL WINNING COACH DOUG PEDERSON YOU’RE FIRED PAL TWO YEARS POST LOMBARDI! Did it work? Eagles #1 team in the league. Super Bowl appearance last year. Humming on offense. Sirriani aggressive coach who could coach circles around McClap. Incredible offensive line. Weapons galore. Has made Jalen Hurts into an MVP.

You guys want to sit back and take this crap? Be my guest. I’ve pounded the table for 3 years to get this bozo out of WNY. Now, some are finally thinking I’m not crazy. You’re seeing it in front of your eyes folks. We are wasting a Hall of Fame QB. We are wasting time. We are wasting our best chance ever to win a Super Bowl title. To get this dark cloud over with. To bring a trophy home to WNY. For Bills Mafia across the world. How can we better our chances? Simple…

 

Terry, please God do the right thing and FIRE SEAN MCDERMOTT.

 

 

 

You sound fun. Wanna grab a beer later?

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

You make some valid points, but stop banging your head against a brick wall.  Terry is not firing McD this year, next year or any other year in the near future. 

It’s certainly possible in the somewhat near future if things don’t turn around quickly. Coaches do get fired in the NFL - pretty frequently in reality. I agree I think it would take a real downturn for T Pegs to make that move. We don’t know his tolerance level, but I think it would take a lot more than a mediocre season and missing the playoffs. To me, that would get the typical changes like sacrificing a coordinator. Sean’s seat may get warm then , but that’s it. You’d likely need multiple seasons of poor results. 

[MPL]

This article is from 2017 but the data holds up today. The Bills need to strongly consider moving forward with Allen or McDermott, but not both. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-coaches-and-qbs-should-divorce-after-five-years-of-not-winning/

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol yeah it was Manning and it wasn't a promotion from within

 

Could use Elway too with his move from Reeves to Shanahan. But the timeline is getting less relevant by the decade.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Could use Elway too with his move from Reeves to Shanahan. But the timeline is getting less relevant by the decade.

Fox/Kubiak is the shining example of why you dump McDermott imo

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Fox/Kubiak is the shining example of why you dump McDermott imo

 

For sure with that success.

 

I also think Flores/McDaniel and Zimmer/OConnell are great examples too.

 

Defensive coaches that hit their ceiling, and the team (and QB) improves under a new Offensive "unknown".

 

Only reason to not do it now is: Fear. Which is right up there with playing not to lose. Sounds very McD.

[Riverboat Ritchie]

How much guaranteed money did McD get with the extension? Would he really be opposed to getting canned.  Seems like a solid dude, changed the culture but isn’t going to take us close to a Lombardi.  If we miss playoffs and he’s still coaching, Josh will forever be Phillips Rivers 2. Unfortunately I see that happening and that is what makes this season especially depressing at this moment. I still hate the fact he authorized the hanging of the Lombardi in field house.  #stefisright. Go Bills 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I just want Dick Jauron back so I can see his emotionless face every weekend. 

[BeastMaster]

Best post I've seen here in quite awhile

 

We should've made the change last year, TBQH

 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For sure with that success.

 

I also think Flores/McDaniel and Zimmer/OConnell are great examples too.

 

Defensive coaches that hit their ceiling, and the team (and QB) improves under a new Offensive "unknown".

 

Only reason to not do it now is: Fear. Which is right up there with playing not to lose. Sounds very McD.

McD is the epitome of playing scared to win. I hated that it happened but Bengals decision to pass on that last drive and pick up 20 was respectable. McClappy would never do that. Like bucs game, we would run it three plays and punt

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

How much guaranteed money did McD get with the extension? Would he really be opposed to getting canned.  Seems like a solid dude, changed the culture but isn’t going to take us close to a Lombardi.  If we miss playoffs and he’s still coaching, Josh will forever be Phillips Rivers 2. Unfortunately I see that happening and that is what makes this season especially depressing at this moment. I still hate the fact he authorized the hanging of the Lombardi in field house.  #stefisright. Go Bills 

 

I believe coach contracts are 100% guaranteed. Getting fired is more a hit on their brand than on their life and paycheck.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For sure with that success.

 

I also think Flores/McDaniel and Zimmer/OConnell are great examples too.

 

Defensive coaches that hit their ceiling, and the team (and QB) improves under a new Offensive "unknown".

 

Only reason to not do it now is: Fear. Which is right up there with playing not to lose. Sounds very McD.

So I am not a McDermott guy at all but I do think a lot of the guys including Allen (probably not Diggs tho) like and respect him, so that's a reason to not fire him. But IMO you are correct that there are fewer reasons not to do it w each passing season. Chief among them for me is the fact that we are looking at dumping a bunch of old contracts and likely doing a reload on both sides of the ball which would seem like the ideal time to get a fresh voice in there.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

So I am not a McDermott guy at all but I do think a lot of the guys including Allen (probably not Diggs tho) like and respect him, so that's a reason to not fire him. But IMO you are correct that there are fewer reasons not to do it w each passing season. Chief among them for me is the fact that we are looking at dumping a bunch of old contracts and likely doing a reload on both sides of the ball which would seem like the ideal time to get a fresh voice in there.

 

Great point on the player personnel changes that are on the horizon.

 

Once guys like Poyer, Hyde, and Tre White are gone, half of McDs support will be gone.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Fox/Kubiak is the shining example of why you dump McDermott imo

True. Promote Dorsey to head coach like the Broncos did with Kubiak.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

True. Promote Dorsey to head coach like the Broncos did with Kubiak.

again thats not what happened

[Mango]

I think most here, myself included, talk about the fear of firing McBeane not because we are afraid to jump into the abyss and we cannot possibly upgrade from the greatness of McD. It is because Terry Pegula has proven himself to be one of the worst owners in all of professional sports. And THE WORST owner in NHL history. 

Allen or not, McD did better than his predecessors. Jauron, Mularkey, Rex, and Marrone would have been bad no matter who their QB was. I think Gailey and Wade are tweeners between that group and the current staff.  Better QB play would have helped a lot.

 

McD did well here. It is time to move on. He has run his course. Under different ownership I could have gotten on that train sooner. 

 

Also, spare me the "I am a fearless dawg and you guys are just sissy little cowards". This is a sports message board, not a HS pregame speech. 

[section122]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For sure with that success.

 

I also think Flores/McDaniel and Zimmer/OConnell are great examples too.

 

Defensive coaches that hit their ceiling, and the team (and QB) improves under a new Offensive "unknown".

 

Only reason to not do it now is: Fear. Which is right up there with playing not to lose. Sounds very McD.

 

What have mcdaniel and oconnell won? Neither have been to a championship game.  Neither have even won a playoff game.  Mcdaniel has 1 win against a team with a winning record.  

 

13 seconds really did a number on this fandom.  Many people just can't move on and it is coloring everything they think about with McDermott.  

 

 

[dpberr]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

You make some valid points, but stop banging your head against a brick wall.  Terry is not firing McD this year, next year or any other year in the near future. 

If he didn't have a new stadium on the way, I'd agree 100% with you.

 

New stadium changes the dynamic and timing.  There's no Steelers patience with that on the way.  You want a team that's been in or very near the Super Bowl as you head into that stadium, with peak interest and attention.  The move from good to great.  You do not want a middling team that sputters out in WC or Divisional games, where you fire the coach in Season #1 or #2 in your new stadium and spend the first five years of your new stadium rebuilding under a new head coach.

 

The time to do any firing is 2024 so the new coach has at least one year of building under the belt.  

 

I have felt McDermott's seat is hot, regardless of the extension, and Beane's FO is safe.    

[section122]

14 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

McD is the epitome of playing scared to win. I hated that it happened but Bengals decision to pass on that last drive and pick up 20 was respectable. McClappy would never do that. Like bucs game, we would run it three plays and punt

It literally happened in the giants game except knox didnt come down with it.

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

How much guaranteed money did McD get with the extension? Would he really be opposed to getting canned.  Seems like a solid dude, changed the culture but isn’t going to take us close to a Lombardi.  If we miss playoffs and he’s still coaching, Josh will forever be Phillips Rivers 2. Unfortunately I see that happening and that is what makes this season especially depressing at this moment. I still hate the fact he authorized the hanging of the Lombardi in field house.  #stefisright. Go Bills 

I think that is what we see on Josh's face on the bench. He is handcuffed to McDermott and it has to bum him out.

[Saint Doug]

22 minutes ago, MPL said:

This article is from 2017 but the data holds up today. The Bills need to strongly consider moving forward with Allen or McDermott, but not both. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-coaches-and-qbs-should-divorce-after-five-years-of-not-winning/

Excellent article and couldn’t agree more. I suppose some, and maybe Pegs himself, will say look at Cowher, but he’s the proof that something needs to be changed. Cowher had Neil O’Donnell, Tommy Maddox, and Slash Steward as QBs. He made the playoffs almost each year, but then would always lose in the playoffs. He was handicapped big time by lack of a decent QB. It wasn’t until drafting Big Ben did he promptly win a Super Bowl.

 

McD has arguably one of the best QBs in the game and still can’t get it done. Just imagine what Marvin Lewis or Cowher would’ve done with Allen. 

[Mark80]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

“lOoK AT ouR pREVioUs cOaChes mAN. NOt woRTH THe RiSk.”

I stop reading any post after I see someone type in this format.  Stupidest crap I have ever seen and tells me a lot about a posters intellect.

[May Day 10]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

Ugly in Locker room?

 

look at Diggs and what happened this off season. Direct correlation to my post. Diggs knows.

 

Yes, but that was contained and snuffed out for the most part.

 

It would take a less vague social media post or comment, and public comment(s) from players and coaches to touch off a mess that can't be stifled.

 

The rumblings of daboll, some comments from beasley, and wawrow's vagueposting, along with diggs' issues shows there are fissures below the surface.  Drop one or both of Denver and Beasley, and things could certainly get out of hand

 

 

[BillsFan692]

2 hours ago, Nuncha said:

McClap needs to move past lack of rhythm, poor "complimentary" football and lack of execution as excuses for why this team is struggling.  Get to the ROOT of the problem by looking in the mirror.  

 

He is a defensive minded coach but needs a coordinator on defense and a STRONG one on offense.  Until that happens this team will continue to struggle.

Whats point of hiring a strong oc who will be picked up by another team in 2 years?

 

Have to fire coach. Need the next offensive guy to be our HC.

10 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

I stop reading any post after I see someone type in this format.  Stupidest crap I have ever seen and tells me a lot about a posters intellect.

Okay Boomer. Just tell us you dont understand internet memes no need for personal insults.

Edited November 7, 2023 by BillsFan692

[TDO'Kearney]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

Bingo

I don't know.  If a Buffalo coach managed the end of a half the way Daboll did for the Giants against the Bills, the fans would be wheeling a guillotine down Abbott Rd.

[Bills!Win!]

Sean McDermott is the modern day Tom Coughlin. Everyone hated him until he won a superbowl 

[Roundybout]

As I said, if we fire McD after a single down season, with massive injuries and a horrible OC, then I hope to god he wins multiple super bowls without us. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Sean McDermott is the modern day Tom Coughlin. Everyone hated him until he won a superbowl 

I still hate him! 🤨

[Roundybout]

2 hours ago, McBean said:

Ok, how can I do that?

 

thabks 

More than strong. The guy has ruined my joy of Bills football. 

 

Boy, if three straight division titles and 71 wins ruins your joy you must have been downright suicidal during the Dick Jauron era 

[Chaos]

The past is the past. This includes McDermotts past successes  and failures. The only proper question is who is the best person to maximize the chance for the Bills to a championship in the future.  Maybe McDermott is the answer to that question.  
 

I did not know who Nick Siriani was before the eagles hired him. I did not know Sean Mcvay as a possibility.  I am sure I don’t know all of the available options at this time.  But if the Bills falter again this year, I feel as though the team should consider options and only retain McDermott if they believe he is the best option.  

[TheFunPolice]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

This.

 

The whole franchised is screwed because we have a Defensive HC who has to hire strong OCs in order to succeed.

 

And any half-decent OC will immediately get plucked for a HC job, and we're right back to where we started.

 

In today's NFL, you find your OC, make them HC, and then fill in your DC with whoever.

 

The only way around this is to hire a Chan Gailey type with tons of experience who isn't looking to become a HC again. I don't mean him specifically, but someone like that. 

 

That's the way to go here. McDermott is a good defensive mind but he needs a CEO for the offense. 

 

Go get an old proven offensive guy who would want to work with Allen, win a bunch of games, and maybe win a ring. But who isn't going to be plucked as a HC given his age/lack of desire to do that again. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Captain_Quint said:

McD's success should be used a springboard for both parties. 

 

We have Allen to dangle in front of the best available talent and turn an OC into a head coach. 

 

McD has the rejuvenated franchise and city of Buffalo to hang his hat on. 

 

It shouldn't be that hard to shift gears at this point, except that we will need a new HC, DC, and OC all in one offseason. But we have Allen, Diggs, and a strong roster of talent. 

 

First, I do think McDermott gets another head-coaching job . But I think it is less than certain it’s hard to imagine any team who thinks they have their franchise quarterback in place hiring Sean McDermott. I also think any team with the draft capital to to land a franchise QB would not hire McDermott

 

It seems like the teams that would be interested would be the teams that are starting guys like Sam Howell or Derek Carr, who don’t really have realistic championship aspirations

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

We all know how this plays out.

 

McDermott gets next year, no matter what.

 

The only question is whether Dorsey gets let go.

 

I would hope McDermott's recent answers to questions about the Offense, when paired with the fact his bread and butter (Defense) has become the worst statistical defense in the league after getting hit with the injury bug, would finally open eyes at OBD.. but he has his built in excuse, along with a fall guy.

 

He's going to be here next year. 

The immediate future of the team (and this season) is two home games against Denver and the Jets that originally looked like easy victories.  Neither are going to be easy now.  (That we almost lost to the hapless Giants.  And lost to the equally hapless Patriots is a real bad look for the entire organization.  And what this team is currently made of.)

 

The team is spiraling downward and has been struggling since London.  Its the coach's job to keep the team believing they can win.  To put them in position to win with a good game plan.  And to keep playing hard every week.  I am very interested in how the team comes out next Monday nite.  We should beat the Broncos by at least 14-17 pts at home.  But that doesn't mean we will.  I think we will know in the next two weeks if McDermott has lost the team or not.  

 

If the team misses the playoffs and ends up with a losing record or close to it, McDermott has to go.

[Bulldog]

1 hour ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I just want Dick Jauron back so I can see his emotionless face every weekend. 

At least we won't have to listen to people complaining that Jauron is "clapping" too much! 

[Yobogoya!]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

This.

 

The whole franchised is screwed because we have a Defensive HC who has to hire strong OCs in order to succeed.

 

And any half-decent OC will immediately get plucked for a HC job, and we're right back to where we started.

 

In today's NFL, you find your OC, make them HC, and then fill in your DC with whoever.

 

I think we'd have to target someone with a decent resume as an OC who's also flamed out already as a head coach at least once.

 

Just for example: Pat Shurmur. I wouldn't be super excited for him, but he's done reasonable well as an OC while never having a QB of Allen's caliber. But he's already flamed out TWICE as a HC, which combined with his age makes him very unlikely to get another shot even if the offense here is lights out. 

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

First, I do think McDermott gets another head-coaching job . But I think it is less than certain it’s hard to imagine any team who thinks they have their franchise quarterback in place hiring Sean McDermott. I also think any team with the draft capital to to land a franchise QB would not hire McDermott

 

It seems like the teams that would be interested would be the teams that are starting guys like Sam Howell or Derek Carr, who don’t really have realistic championship aspirations

 

He will be like Frank Reich and have suitors lining up for him.

[Marcus Aurelius]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

The title does not accurately depict the topic of this thread, you should probably change it to make it reflect that.

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

The only way around this is to hire a Chan Gailey type with tons of experience who isn't looking to become a HC again. I don't mean him specifically, but someone like that. 

 

That's the way to go here. McDermott is a good defensive mind but he needs a CEO for the offense. 

 

Go get an old proven offensive guy who would want to work with Allen, win a bunch of games, and maybe win a ring. But who isn't going to be plucked as a HC given his age/lack of desire to do that again. 

 

I'm not big on making people provide names on who they want to hire, but real question: who is out there that fits this mold that isnt hired already? and isnt too old that the modern game has passed them by?

 

Not trying to pin you to an answer. Genuinely curious on who I might be forgetting.

 

Josh McDaniels? haha jkjk

 

 

4 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

I think we'd have to target someone with a decent resume as an OC who's also flamed out already as a head coach at least once.

 

Just for example: Pat Shurmur. I wouldn't be super excited for him, but he's done reasonable well as an OC while never having a QB of Allen's caliber. But he's already flamed out TWICE as a HC, which combined with his age makes him very unlikely to get another shot even if the offense here is lights out. 

 

It's a decent sounding plan. But I dont think that is the current recipe for success in the modern NFL.

 

It's more along the lines of finding a young, unknown staff member from a top Offense and catching lightning in a bottle.

[Captain_Quint]

16 minutes ago, Chaos said:

First, I do think McDermott gets another head-coaching job . But I think it is less than certain it’s hard to imagine any team who thinks they have their franchise quarterback in place hiring Sean McDermott. I also think any team with the draft capital to to land a franchise QB would not hire McDermott

 

It seems like the teams that would be interested would be the teams that are starting guys like Sam Howell or Derek Carr, who don’t really have realistic championship aspirations

 

Agree on that, for sure. Sean will get a team that is either in need of a rebuild, or one that is already torn down to the studs with a new GM. 

 

And honestly, he will probably do a pretty good job if it's a scenario like that and he can find another QB.