McDermott answers why we stopped uptempo offense

[JTown]

2 hours ago, Toledo Bill said:

The players are going to quit on this guy.

Unbelievable.

I think many have. Namely Josh.  I am certain that Diggs is extremely unhappy and I have a hard time believing that only a few people who still have things to prove will give 100 % going forward.  Why would any player risk career ending injuries for this s#!t show.   I would not be surprised if they lose to Denver.  If the do, and I was Pegula, I would have McClappy escorted to the door.

[Old Coot]

You guys calling for Dorsey and / or McD to be fired do realize that's initially a step back.

 

Why? Because a new OC will bring in his own system with different theories and play calling names. That means Josh (and other) need to learn a new system. How many times have you heard of a highly touted QB not performing up to expectations because he's had X number of OCs.  Why does a new OC bring his own system? Because his job depends on the O's performance so he wants to use a system he knows like the back of his hand. It's an extraordinary (and an experienced) OC who is a master of several O systems.

 

If you bring in a new HC its the same situation only worse. The HC's job depends on the team being successful so the HC will want both O & D systems he knows well.

 

This is, I think, why most newly hired HC's OC's and DC's bring in their own system and remake the roster in their images rather than using a system designed to fit the roster.

[AlfaBill]

18 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

Great, then we can be the Philip Rivers Chargers! Yaaaay! 

 

What a joke. 

So you’re saying we can’t get a better coach than  McD? I dont know either way, but we can all agree it seems as though he is coming to his apex. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, JTown said:

I think many have. Namely Josh.  I am certain that Diggs is extremely unhappy and I have a hard time believing that only a few people who still have things to prove will give 100 % going forward.  Why would any player risk career ending injuries for this s#!t show.   I would not be surprised if they lose to Denver.  If the do, and I was Pegula, I would have McClappy escorted to the door.

 

Glad you mentioned this. Lost in all this talk is the funny observation: Diggs was right all along.

 

He showed up to camp, heard the BS out of McD and Dorsey, and knew exactly how it was going to go.

 

Sorry, Stef.

 

[Joe Ferguson]

McWimpy is not only stupid but an arrogant lunatic. He's going to use his old style, boring and wimpy 1975 football down our throats even if it means losing the rest of the games. Just to prove his arrogant way is right. Bills win games despite of McWimpy and lose games because of him.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Joe Ferguson

[Bruffalo]

9 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

I simply refuse to fire the coach with a 72-43 record and three-straight division titles because we're 5-4. It's madness. 

I’ll settle for getting rid of Dorsey, for the time being. 

[Big Blitz]

6 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

You guys calling for Dorsey and / or McD to be fired do realize that's initially a step back.

 

Why? Because a new OC will bring in his own system with different theories and play calling names. That means Josh (and other) need to learn a new system. How many times have you heard of a highly touted QB not performing up to expectations because he's had X number of OCs.  Why does a new OC bring his own system? Because his job depends on the O's performance so he wants to use a system he knows like the back of his hand. It's an extraordinary (and an experienced) OC who is a master of several O systems.

 

If you bring in a new HC its the same situation only worse. The HC's job depends on the team being successful so the HC will want both O & D systems he knows well.

 

This is, I think, why most newly hired HC's OC's and DC's bring in their own system and remake the roster in their images rather than using a system designed to fit the roster.

 

Like Tua?
 

Like Lamar?

 

Like Dak?

 

Like Hurts?

 

Like Herbert?

 

Like Cousins?

 

Like Goff?

 

Like Sam Howell or any Commanders QB?  

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Big Blitz

[Since1981]

We may be learning what bothered Stef after all bengals playoff game. Broncos loss, then HC doesn’t make it to Thanksgiving and/or Diggs calls in sick. 

[Bruffalo]

6 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

You guys calling for Dorsey and / or McD to be fired do realize that's initially a step back.

 

Why? Because a new OC will bring in his own system with different theories and play calling names. That means Josh (and other) need to learn a new system. How many times have you heard of a highly touted QB not performing up to expectations because he's had X number of OCs.  Why does a new OC bring his own system? Because his job depends on the O's performance so he wants to use a system he knows like the back of his hand. It's an extraordinary (and an experienced) OC who is a master of several O systems.

 

If you bring in a new HC its the same situation only worse. The HC's job depends on the team being successful so the HC will want both O & D systems he knows well.

 

This is, I think, why most newly hired HC's OC's and DC's bring in their own system and remake the roster in their images rather than using a system designed to fit the roster.

If the current scheme and playcalling is holding the team back, like many of us believe, then bringing in anyone regardless of the learning curve would probably be a net positive. 

[Simon]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

So we'll never make another coaching hire again. Got it. 🙄

 

C'mon man, you know I didn't say or even imply that.

If McDermott was genuinely awful or had been for years, then of course you cut bait and let Pegula hire anew.

But he's not awful and has been successful sine he's got here.

I don't want to see perfect become the enemy of good when the downside is arguably greater than the upside 

 

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

No, I dont necessarily trust Pegula to nail it. But I think he has a better shot of making a decent hire by taking the advice of both the consulting firm he used to find McDermott, AND having Beane involved in the search, than McD has in guiding this team to a Super Bowl victory.

 

You want to use the same consulting service to hire the new coach that you used to hire the coach you're now firing for cause?

There's something in there that doesn't smell right.

 

Some mostly irrelevant Insider info: You know who in the organization was selling McDermott hard and was primarily responsible for his hiring?

Doug Whaley was the one who talked Pegula into hiring him. 🤯

[Roundybout]

11 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

So tell me - why does he need to stay? Give us all a compelling from 13 seconds to now, why he should stay...

 

 

It's not just Dorsey with Allen twisted up. It really feels like McD is twisting it up as well

 

Because he's 71-44 (second best in Bills history), has won us 3 straight division titles after 17 years of nothing, has fourth stringers forcing big defensive stops, and dragged this team back from watching their teammate die on the field. 

 

Half the league would love to have him. 

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Good news. You arent involved at all. And thank goodness since you just said you wanted the Bills to lose the Super Bowl.

 

 

 

I will root for McD to shove it in ungrateful Bills fans' faces, yes. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, Simon said:

 

C'mon man, you know I didn't say or even imply that.

If McDermott was genuinely awful or had been for years, then of course you cut bait and let Pegula hire anew.

But he's not awful and has been successful sine he's got here.

I don't want to see perfect become the enemy of good when the downside is arguably greater than the upside 

 

 

You want to use the same consulting service to hire the new coach that you used to hire the coach you're now firing for cause?

There's something in there that doesn't smell right.

 

Some mostly irrelevant Insider info: You know who in the organization was selling McDermott hard and was primarily responsible for his hiring? Doug Whaley was the one who talked Pegula into hiring him. 🤯

I don’t trust Terry making decisions either.  Look at what he has done to the Sabres.  He cannot pick executives to save his life.  But this is starting to seem inevitable - this regime is backsliding and McD seems to be out of answers for it.

[ALLinALLEN]

12 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

I simply refuse to fire the coach with a 72-43 record and three-straight division titles because we're 5-4. It's madness. 

It’s wildly concerning to me that mcdermott watched the way the last two seasons ended and thought “we need to be more balanced instead of out scoring teams”. That’s incredibly lazy of him. 

[Old Coot]

Just now, Bruffalo said:

If the current scheme and playcalling is holding the team back, like many of us believe, then bringing in anyone regardless of the learning curve would probably be a net positive.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but consider the possibility that a new hire could be a net negative.

 

It would be interesting to know what percentage of coaching changes are net positives and what percentage are new negatives.

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

If the current scheme and playcalling is holding the team back, like many of us believe, then bringing in anyone regardless of the learning curve would probably be a net positive. 

 

Like replacing Lindy Ruff with Ron Rolston?

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I don’t trust Terry making decisions either.  Look at what he has done to the Sabres.  He cannot pick executives to save his life.  But this is starting to seem inevitable - this regime is backsliding and McD seems to be out of answers for it.

I mean if the HC reported to the GM instead of the owner....

[Since1981]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

This is, I think, why most newly hired HC's OC's and DC's bring in their own system and remake the roster in their images rather than using a system designed to fit the roster.

Quality HC and OC flex to the assets on hand!!! Changing players to scheme is brain dead OC. 

 

I give total credit to McD for D flexibility after injuries. HUGE credit.
 

However, he and Dorsey are incapable of doing the same adaptation in O

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Roundybout said:

 

Like replacing Lindy Ruff with Ron Rolston?

I’m talking about the OC, but sure. It’s a risk

 

1 minute ago, Old Coot said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you but consider the possibility that a new hire could be a net negative.

 

It would be interesting to know what percentage of coaching changes are net positives and what percentage are new negatives.

It’s a gamble, but if they just plug in Joe Brady or one of the other former OCs on the coaching staff I don’t think it would be as disruptive as you’re making it out to be. 
 

Dorsey has been flat out bad. Something’s got to give.

[Old Coot]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

It’s a gamble, but if they just plug in Joe Brady or one of the other former OCs on the coaching staff I don’t think it would be as disruptive as you’re making it out to be. 

Good point

[Low Positive]

The tweets that you’re all ranting about is not what McDermott said and was also taken out of context. But hey, never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Edited November 7, 2023 by FrenchConnection

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, Old Coot said:

Good point

 

Hell, Mike Shula was OC of the Year in 2015. 

[Best Williams Available]

5 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

Because he's 71-44 (second best in Bills history), has won us 3 straight division titles after 17 years of nothing

You conveniently overlook the Pats/Brady dominance over everybody over this time period. Had McD gotten the Bills there over Brady-led Pats then we’d all be with you.

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

 

Move on to who?

 

A 1st time OC?

A retread? 
A college coach? 
 

I really think the correct route is to fire Dorsey and bring in a top flight offensive mind with OC experience. Bonus for a failed HC who won’t get poached from here in two seasons. 
 

 

 

 

and who would that be?

[Reed83HOF]

20 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

Because he's 71-44 (second best in Bills history), has won us 3 straight division titles after 17 years of nothing, has fourth stringers forcing big defensive stops, and dragged this team back from watching their teammate die on the field. 

 

Half the league would love to have him.

Half the league would love to have him, the teams ranked #15-#31 would be in much better shape. Now do the top 5 teams in the league. What does he bring to the table to help out coach the other team to win the game? When was the last time he out-coached another HC to win a game?

 

I'm stealing this from twitter because it is true...

 

But yet, we have to play complementary football - we can't when the Defense is again injured. There certainly seems to be the we can't go uptempo and put our injured and old defense back on the field - it is the offense that has to try new things...

 

Fine you are up 21 points on the Raiders and want to F around to burn the clock and get some plays in, fine - when you are competing against the team that trounced you in the playoffs this year and a loss decreases your odds for the playoffs by ~30%. Should be **** canned right there....

 

But yet last night he wasn't sure why we got away from the uptempo offense? People don't take a crap at OBD without McD knowing about it, he has things locked down that much.

 

Also, as shown earlier in this thread and from the week of the Pats game, he is involved in the offense, by both his and Doresy's comments. The players certainly don't seem happy. You would wonder if Josh, Diggs, Morse, Miller, Dawkins etc. are even challenging them saying show us why we need to change the offense ,we can get the others on board, but yet all you hear is simplification and uptempo from the offensive players and then you have an HC who says, well I don't know why we got away from it and in less than 24 hours says we cant to  get to other offensive styles?

 

That's the leader you want to keep?

 

 

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

and who would that be?

Josh McDaniels of course

Edited November 7, 2023 by Reed83HOF

[JTown]

1 hour ago, Bills!Win! said:

Who will McDermott lose first, the team or the fans? 

I don't know how people cannot see that he has already lost the team.  IMO he lost a good majority after the 13 second game.  Everything has continued to unravel since.  The dejected look on Josh's face when Diggs was allegedly screaming at him has never left.  I am certain Josh is more frustrated than anyone on the team.  He can't just go rogue and call his own plays.  I'm relatively certain that Diggs issue during OTAs was his displeasure with the way the offense was being run, but I think Josh convinced him they could make it work.  Get your popcorn ready because I think Diggs will eventually speak his mind.  Unfortunately,  it's  going to get a lot uglier.  Book it.

[LifeLongBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Mark my words, we fire McD we won’t sniff the same amount of success for the rest of Josh’s career.

 

Im not going to throw away one of the winningest coaches this shite franchise has ever seen after a down season. No way. 

Are you the same mark my words we are going to win the rest of the games this year?
I don’t think we can win a SB with McD and Beane - they have wasted far to many pics 

they think they are 1 Defensive player away from Winning it all -

but the whole d scheme blows 

how can you blitz and have the corners 8 yards off the line moving backwards - it a joke 

Edited November 7, 2023 by LifeLongBillsFan

[LifeLongBillsFan]

33 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

You guys calling for Dorsey and / or McD to be fired do realize that's initially a step back.

 

Why? Because a new OC will bring in his own system with different theories and play calling names. That means Josh (and other) need to learn a new system. How many times have you heard of a highly touted QB not performing up to expectations because he's had X number of OCs.  Why does a new OC bring his own system? Because his job depends on the O's performance so he wants to use a system he knows like the back of his hand. It's an extraordinary (and an experienced) OC who is a master of several O systems.

 

If you bring in a new HC its the same situation only worse. The HC's job depends on the team being successful so the HC will want both O & D systems he knows well.

 

This is, I think, why most newly hired HC's OC's and DC's bring in their own system and remake the roster in their images rather than using a system designed to fit the roster.

either there has to be a correction in the next few weeks - or things are going to start coming a part.  You can’t take a team predicted for greatness and suck at coaching this bad 

I keep asking - why would a SB contender hire a man inexperienced OC? Doesn’t make any sense 

 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I hope he is more inspiring in the locker room with the players, then he is in those press conferences…

 

 

I think he's starting to lose the locker room. 

[BeastMode54]

This is not what you want to hear from your HC

 

IMG_6019.heic

[Airseven]

Nothing unusual about any of this. It’s the typical dents in the armor of a waning regime. There’s a disconnect - whether between coaches/coaches, players/players, or coaches/players - we may never know. But the sheen is gone.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I remember back in earlier years, McDermott would talk about trusting the process and that it takes time to build a program. I wish someone would ask him about that now.

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I remember back in earlier years, McDermott would talk about trusting the process and that it takes time to build a program. I wish someone would ask him about that now.

It’s reported McDermott went away from a winning culture because he wanted to get to other styles of cultures. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

4 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

I’ve always been a huge McDermott fan… but I’m losing faith he can get us to the SB. 

He won't.

 

 

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

 

Because he's 71-44 (second best in Bills history), has won us 3 straight division titles after 17 years of nothing, has fourth stringers forcing big defensive stops, and dragged this team back from watching their teammate die on the field. 

 

Half the league would love to have him. 

This 👏 is not 👏 relevant 👏 unless your standard is just to not suck

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

 

Because he's 71-44 (second best in Bills history), has won us 3 straight division titles after 17 years of nothing, has fourth stringers forcing big defensive stops, and dragged this team back from watching their teammate die on the field. 

 

Half the league would love to have him. 

 

I will root for McD to shove it in ungrateful Bills fans' faces, yes. 

 

So we are just supposed to be content with playoff berths and no Super Bowls because he got us out of the drought?

 

Since :13, McD has doubled and tripled down on conservative game management tactics and upon Daboll's departure the offense has become less of a cannon and more of a water gun. Daboll and McD didn't get along because Daboll wanted to have a strong offense that drove down the field and scored every drive. McD, for as good as he might be as a manager, and even tactically on defense, has far too much bias towards helping the defense and catering to the defense. He'd never say he wants the offense to sputter but he likely sees value in long tenuous drives regardless of result due to it giving his defense time to recuperate. A 4 play 68 yard drive done in less than 2 minutes is terrible for the defense akin to that of a turnover. Part of it is coming from his desire to help protect the defense that is literally held together by gum and tape. But he needs to swallow his damn pride and let the offense steer the ship. If we have to win 38-35 and the defense is gashed, so be it. We don't need good complimentary football; we need to win by whatever means we can. 

[Herc11]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So many have it wrong in this thread...you guys realize that McD is giving you DORSEY's answer to why they didn't run the uptempo right?  

 

All this anger at McD over the answer is totally misguided.  Now if you want to be mad at McD for not yet firing Dorsey, then that is fair game.  But this answer everyone is so upset about is the answer Dorsey gave McD after they met and reviewed the game.  

 

FIRE DORSEY

 

 

What leads you to believe this? Why would the OC who scripted an up tempo start with the QB, suddenly decide to not keep what worked so well? 

 

That's a defensive mindset that wanted to try and slow the game down cause he didn't want to end up in a shootout.

 

McDermott was the one who failed at the end of the half sending out the punt unit with like 15 seconds left, instead of a hail Mary. The moment was too big for him and he didn't have a time out to slow things down so he could think about what to do.

 

Which is the second blunder he has made with less than 20 seconds on the clock. He never even should of sent the punting unit out there.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Herc11

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Since1981 said:

We may be learning what bothered Stef after all bengals playoff game. Broncos loss, then HC doesn’t make it to Thanksgiving and/or Diggs calls in sick. 

Totally agree. The media took the Allen/Diggs story and ran with it because what was seen on the bench but I think his frustrations were more to do with the coaching staff. Why else have a meeting with them before TC. 
 

[Old Coot]

45 minutes ago, LifeLongBillsFan said:

either there has to be a correction in the next few weeks - or things are going to start coming a part.  You can’t take a team predicted for greatness and suck at coaching this bad 

This year has been a disaster. On D injury-wise and on O for reasons I'm not sure. Part may be Dorsey but part is also execution by the players. BTW lack of execution is not solely the players' fault. The coaching staff's job is to get the players ready to play.

 

49 minutes ago, LifeLongBillsFan said:

I keep asking - why would a SB contender hire a man inexperienced OC? Doesn’t make any sense 

Easy answer: Dorsey was familar with Daboll's system and Josh wanted Dorsey maybe because Josh didn't want to learn a new system.  The problem I think is this: The O line isn't good enough to play long ball or to have a consistently successful running game but the WR's (aside from Diggs and Kincaid) and the execution aren't good enough to play small ball -- 10-12 play drives don't happen when there are miscues and you cannot consistently run the ball.

 

I hate to say it but this team hasn't and doesn't have the talent to be "destined for greatness." Some of the players (like Josh and Stef) are great. It's a good team but there are too many holes that a well-coached opponent will exploit.  That's why despite some playoff success they haven't made it to the Big Dance.

 

I'm not dissing the team here -- when you cut me I bleed red, white and royal blue -- I've been a fan since the days of Golden Wheels Dubenion and Tarzan Torczon (that's 1960 for you, youngsters). I'm just being realistic.

 

For what it's worth, I think the Bills teams of the four Superbowl appearences were somewhat similar. The O was great -- excellent passing, running and O line (much more talented than the 2023 Bills' O). The D, despite stars such as Bruce Smith, had holes that were exploited by their well-coached opponents.  The first SB appearence the Bills' O scored only 19 points -- a failure for an O as prolific as the K-Gun.  I read that the Giants switched up defenses from drive to drive and so kept Kelly somewhat confused. That and the Giants ability to sustain long clock-eating drives with power running because out D wasn't good enough to stop them. They also kept everything in front of them to limit YAC.   Those K-Gun teams were great at YAC (unlike our present Bills).

 

The Giants' DC was some new guy by the name of Bill Belichick. I wonder what ever became of him? Probably a gym teacher at a HS somewhere.

 

At this point we are in the race for the AFC North crown but even if we do make the playoffs I'll be very surprised if we go very far.

 

In any event, it's on to the next opponent.

[Bangarang]

Sounds like a frustrated coaching staff that has no idea how to fix things. Yikes.

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

C'mon man, you know I didn't say or even imply that.

If McDermott was genuinely awful or had been for years, then of course you cut bait and let Pegula hire anew.

But he's not awful and has been successful sine he's got here.

I don't want to see perfect become the enemy of good when the downside is arguably greater than the upside 

 

 

He absolutely is a very good coach. The question is if he can put this team over the top and the answer is trending towards a no, imo.

I understand the fear of making this worse but with Allen still in his prime, the chances are low. As for improving performances, coaches like Sirianni and Shanahan did that in shorter amount of time . And they were starting from a lower base than a new coach would with the Bills. If a previously successful coach were to become available (cough,.... Belichick.... Cough)  would we not look in his direction and stay the course? Even if that course has flat lined to declining? 

 

I have definitely run out of patience. Last year was very tough for the team but the regression we are seeing this year is inexcusable. Imo, of course

[LABILLBACKER]

53 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Totally agree. The media took the Allen/Diggs story and ran with it because what was seen on the bench but I think his frustrations were more to do with the coaching staff. Why else have a meeting with them before TC. 
 

Of course it was the coaching staff. This team has finally realized McD & Dorsey can only take them so far. I think Stef wanted to make this issue public and Josh being the good soldier didn't.  It's time for Josh to step up and admit this coaching combo isn't working anymore.