Week 9 thread - We’re on to Cincinnati

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, boyst said:

Benford is playing very well and consistent. Dane Jackson isnt getting respect. Taron Johnson has been covering a lot of big guys, TE's primarily. Tomorrow he will be facing a stout challenge.

 

Without Milano to help in the secondary we have seen Johnson have a tougher go.

 

What did you think of the strategy of going to Dime and bringing Poyer up while putting Rapp at safety

[boyst]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

What did you think of the strategy of going to Dime and bringing Poyer up while putting Rapp at safety

I thought it was interesting and more of a test drive for the future of the season. I had mentioned it a few times and it was interesting that we didn't notice the difference on the field compared to George Wilson doing it a decade ago. 43 is the mike will forever haunt me.

 

It's somewhat wicked because it could take all the life that is left from poyer to play that close to the ball in the box.

 

Having Rapp as the deep safety surprised me. I think he's experienced enough that each week doing this he will feel and fit better. The harmony between Milano-White-Johnson-Hyde-Poyer was always something incredible. I'm hoping new GB guy can fill the role with experience and we can get back to a symbiotic level of play, as Bernard has fit in well with them.

 

To the individual characterists I had noticed Poyer actually playing like a WLB the last few years coming in hard. It was always reason I liked him at strong safety because he was also so damn good on the strong side when we had our pass rush ***** up.

 

It beats him up.

 

However...The first 3 games he was playing a more pure safety position. Many had noticed he wasn't playing as well in their opinion.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, Caesar said:

This is your problem. You cannot distinguish between "attacking" vs "reacting".  You think because it is a Bills board I should just shut up, bend over, and take it.

As a combat vet that ate way too much sand and a golden gloves boxer for many years, Im not really good at just getting smacked around by immature people.   

I'll try to do better, but make no promises.

 

 

Um…. Dude, if your manner of reacting is to attack, there IS no practical difference between attacking and reacting.  

 

I’ve been here a long time with a couple previous screen names (no, I wasn’t banned).  I’ve seen fans of other teams come and go many a time.  I’ve seen them come with respect, and be respected and well regarded in turn.  I’ve seen them come in hot and been asked by a mod in PM and/or by other posters to tone it down and turn to having great football convo, I’ve seen them come in hot and stay hot and get the bum’s rush out the door.

 

I’ll say this.  You’re essentially telling me your only conversational tool is a hammer.   As the saying goes, “when your only tool is a hammer, Everything looks like a Nail.”

 

There’s a lot of room between being pugnacious and attacking in response to a bit of snark, vs “shut up, bend over, and take it”.  I don’t find it necessary to be rude or go around attacking people, but I’d like to think most folks here know that doesn’t mean they’re gonna have a ‘battle of wits” with an unarmed person if they choose to take me on and I choose to respond.  

 

But I feel no requirement to respond; I will, if it suits my mood and purpose.  I won’t, if it doesn’t.  That doesn’t mean I’m “bending over and taking it”, it’s a message board ferCripesakes.  No one is going to push your face in the sand or kick sand in it if you focus on what you say you came for, which is football talk.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Caesar said:

This is your problem. You cannot distinguish between "attacking" vs "reacting".  You think because it is a Bills board I should just shut up, bend over, and take it.

As a combat vet that ate way too much sand and a golden gloves boxer for many years, Im not really good at just getting smacked around by immature people.   

I'll try to do better, but make no promises.

 

I've never been tempted to go to another team's message board. It just seems like an invitation for ill-will. You seem to think you're the victim of injustice. I don't know you. I recollect finding you insincere and annoying last year, but my memory is hazy on that. There's no way to verify whether you are indeed a golden gloves pugilist and veteran. What I can verify is how you interact with folks I know for years as posters here. Some of them are consistently insightful, and generally quite decent to others. The fact that you have come here for several years and provoked them is not evidence in your favor. And really, what is the meaning of these tough guy poses? That by itself hardly radiates maturity.

[Chandler#81]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Um…. Dude, if your manner of reacting is to attack, there IS no practical difference between attacking and reacting.  

 

I’ve been here a long time with a couple previous screen names (no, I wasn’t banned).  I’ve seen fans of other teams come and go many a time.  I’ve seen them come with respect, and be respected and well regarded in turn.  I’ve seen them come in hot and been asked by a mod in PM and/or by other posters to tone it down and turn to having great football convo, I’ve seen them come in hot and stay hot and get the bum’s rush out the door.

 

I’ll say this.  You’re essentially telling me your only conversational tool is a hammer.   As the saying goes, “when your only tool is a hammer, Everything looks like a Nail.”

 

There’s a lot of room between being pugnacious and attacking in response to a bit of snark, vs “shut up, bend over, and take it”.  I don’t find it necessary to be rude or go around attacking people, but I’d like to think most folks here know that doesn’t mean they’re gonna have a ‘battle of wits” with an unarmed person if they choose to take me on and I choose to respond.  

 

But I feel no requirement to respond; I will, if it suits my mood and purpose.  I won’t, if it doesn’t.  That doesn’t mean I’m “bending over and taking it”, it’s a message board ferCripesakes.  No one is going to push your face in the sand or kick sand in it if you focus on what you say you came for, which is football talk.

My favorite thing!😜

[Blank Stare]

[Beck Water]

26 minutes ago, boyst said:

I thought it was interesting and more of a test drive for the future of the season. I had mentioned it a few times and it was interesting that we didn't notice the difference on the field compared to George Wilson doing it a decade ago. 43 is the mike will forever haunt me.

 

It's somewhat wicked because it could take all the life that is left from poyer to play that close to the ball in the box.

 

Having Rapp as the deep safety surprised me. I think he's experienced enough that each week doing this he will feel and fit better. The harmony between Milano-White-Johnson-Hyde-Poyer was always something incredible. I'm hoping new GB guy can fill the role with experience and we can get back to a symbiotic level of play, as Bernard has fit in well with them.

 

To the individual characterists I had noticed Poyer actually playing like a WLB the last few years coming in hard. It was always reason I liked him at strong safety because he was also so damn good on the strong side when we had our pass rush ***** up.

 

It beats him up.

 

However...The first 3 games he was playing a more pure safety position. Many had noticed he wasn't playing as well in their opinion.

 

So riffing along your points….Yeah, Poyer and Hyde have the mind-meld going for sure.  So taking him out of that mind-meld duo would seem to lessen us at Safety.  

 

On the other hand, Damned Straight that part of the ‘secret sauce’ of the Bills D has been that Milano could really cover, and both Johnson and Poyer could play DB like a ‘backer.  So Poyer has been “taking the life” out of himself, by being willing to play hard like that for years…but it seems as though he’s really lost range this year, though maybe it’s just recovering from his week 3 knee injury that kept him out week 4.

 

An alternative view point would be maybe playing Poyer like a WLB will extend his playing window, because otherwise maybe as he meshes in more (I know LA fans would throw up in their mouths at the notion) Rapp might be playing better at safety?

 

I didn’t think Poyer had particular problems game 2 and 3 (before injury).  I thought he struggled some when he came back, ‘playing himself healthy’ was my take.  But he’s definitely lost some speed and range, so maybe putting him closer to the LOS and letting him thump is more helpful than wicked?

 

I agree that Bernard has fit in surprisingly well.  I thought Williams has shown flashes, but obviously the coaches decided he needs to go “back in the pot” to cook some more.

 

I just hope Benford’s hammy is nothing serious, and I hope Douglas comes on board quickly because frankly, I don’t seen Benford and Jackson as quite “good enough”.  Guess we’ll find out tomorrow……

 

18 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

My favorite thing!😜

 

Is that why there were “plumber’s candles” on your Cupcakes? 😘

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

The Bills listed Benford on injury report with a “hamstring” and designated him “limited”.  Most people would consider that definitive that Benford in fact has some form of hamstring injury which allowed him to practice, but kept him from completing the practice in full.

 

No need to “suspect” anything

 

 

Yep.........Shill isn't going to make up something like that.........he wouldn't be a shill if he did.

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, Aimee75 said:

I honestly feel no pressure/stress regarding this game. I don't see us winning it. I feel like we either get curb stomped, again, by this team, or we lose a very close one and we get some stupid penalty after a huge play that either gives The Bengals life, or guarantees their victory. Our healthier D last season could not stop them, so I cannot imagine our ailing D, the same one that made Mac Jones look like Tom Brady, stopping this team.

 

Our best bet is to hope to be on the winning end of a shootout. 

 

Sorry for being so negative, but The Bengals gave us fits last year and I did not think we did anything in the off season to counteract them. Obviously, we have some things out of our control, like the horrible injuries. I don't feel good or hopeful about this one, but I am just hoping we look somewhat competitive and make a game of it.

 

If we lose a close hard fought battle, I can live with that.  It greatly hurts us in the playoff hunt but I can live with the actual game.  If we get blown out again, I am going back into bleak mode.

7 hours ago, Caesar said:

 

 

Am I wrong in stating that Leslie practically made zero changes to the Bills defense?  It seemed to be a basic zone the entire game.  There is a lot of talk around the Bengals that film from that game is going to be no help as McDermott will be dialing up a wide variety of looks.  I can say that we do not do very well when a ton of guys are in the box and tight man coverage.  Our oline is doing better communicating but stunts & delayed pressure has been an issue.  Of course there is a risk in playing that way too much but it has been a problem at times.

 

Leslie was quoted as saying he doesn't make a lot of changes because they go with what they practice.  McD's defense is a little more aggressive but mostly the same as far as I can tell. Im no defensive expert though.  I felt like it was doing a better job when we had healthy players but losing White, Milano, and Jones have hurt a lot.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Herc11 said:

 

Rasul and the other two better be active and play. I don't care about terminology, these guys are vets. Let their instincts fill in the gaps. This isn't a game to be coaching timid.

 

Poor communication leads to terrible defense.  Most broken plays are either the guy fell or they didn't communicate well.  

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Herc11 said:

 

Rasul and the other two better be active and play. I don't care about terminology, these guys are vets. Let their instincts fill in the gaps. This isn't a game to be coaching timid.

 

Suggestion: if you want to deepen your understanding, wander over to the JT O’Sullivan thread and follow the sub-thread where I speculate that Tampa was trying to leverage Josh’s tendencies and Hoofhearted tells me it’s just busted coverage.  There’s a back and forth where I ask who should have been covering Shakir and  Hoofhearted, Buffalo716, Einstein, and a couple others respond with a back-and-forth about what the coverage actually is (spoiler: go with Hoof) and therefore who should be picking him up.  

 

It’s pretty eye-opening about just how intricate coverage responsibilities really are, just how subtle the clues that the QB needs to pick up about what the coverage is can be, and so forth.  “Instincts”, in the sense of “go with your gut” can truly equal blown coverage and big gains.  

 

The “instinctive” coaches and front office people talk about, means something very different - it means someone who understands the offense and understands what that means to their role in the specific defense they’re playing in so well, that they can react with out conscious thought

 

But it doesn’t mean “go out and ad lib”, which is what not understanding the specific defensive responsibilities in different options specified by a given play call would lead to.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Low Positive]

I went out for sushi, and on the way home I saw a coyote standing on a highway median. That was just off I75 in Cincinnati. Make of they what you will.

[Dr.Sack]

Since Burrowhead is no longer after tomorrow night PAYCOR/The Jungle/Paul Brown Stadium will be known as ___________?
 

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So riffing along your points….Yeah, Poyer and Hyde have the mind-meld going for sure.  So taking him out of that mind-meld duo would seem to lessen us at Safety.  

 

On the other hand, Damned Straight that part of the ‘secret sauce’ of the Bills D has been that Milano could really cover, and both Johnson and Poyer could play DB like a ‘backer.  So Poyer has been “taking the life” out of himself, by being willing to play hard like that for years…but it seems as though he’s really lost range this year, though maybe it’s just recovering from his week 3 knee injury that kept him out week 4.

 

An alternative view point would be maybe playing Poyer like a WLB will extend his playing window, because otherwise maybe as he meshes in more (I know LA fans would throw up in their mouths at the notion) Rapp might be playing better at safety?

 

I didn’t think Poyer had particular problems game 2 and 3 (before injury).  I thought he struggled some when he came back, ‘playing himself healthy’ was my take.  But he’s definitely lost some speed and range, so maybe putting him closer to the LOS and letting him thump is more helpful than wicked?

 

I agree that Bernard has fit in surprisingly well.  I thought Williams has shown flashes, but obviously the coaches decided he needs to go “back in the pot” to cook some more.

 

I just hope Benford’s hammy is nothing serious, and I hope Douglas comes on board quickly because frankly, I don’t seen Benford and Jackson as quite “good enough”.  Guess we’ll find out tomorrow……

 

 

Is that why there were “plumber’s candles” on your Cupcakes? 😘

 

Didn't Poyer take a couple bad angles in preseason (I know, who cares) and in the first game or two prior to the injury? Now, characterizing a defender's "bad angle" can also be the result of hesitance, false steps, and/or a lack of footspeed/range (which you explicitly recognize in your post).

 

I recall seeing Hyde being more active in the box and coming downhill at the beginning of the season, and I wonder if that means Poyer was playing the deeper role more often, which would have then really shined a light on his diminished range? Therefore, this recent adjustment to him explicitly lining up on the 2nd level would be a way to reduce the space he has to cover, allowing him to leverage his instincts while mitigating his diminished speed?

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If we lose a close hard fought battle, I can live with that.  It greatly hurts us in the playoff hunt but I can live with the actual game.  If we get blown out again, I am going back into bleak mode.

 

Leslie was quoted as saying he doesn't make a lot of changes because they go with what they practice.  McD's defense is a little more aggressive but mostly the same as far as I can tell. Im no defensive expert though.  I felt like it was doing a better job when we had healthy players but losing White, Milano, and Jones have hurt a lot.

 

Primarily, with Jones and Milano playing at ELITE levels, and White finally returning to previous excellence, this defense was looking GOOD. Secondarily, Oliver was flashing, Bernard was flashing, and Benford was flashing. The Bills were collapsing pockets, disrupting QBs/timing, and taking the ball away. Frazier's defenses were never so assertive even when they were solid. 

 

Now, with the loss of their most effective/impactful guy at all three levels of the defense, we're seeing a defense that looks more vanilla and more passive. A lot of that perception might just stem from the players being less EFFECTIVE at executing and winning their matchups on a snap-by-snap basis. But I'm sure some of it also stems from the calls being more conservative/predictable. Keep it simple and safe, and let the replacements play fast and all that...

 

(Sorry for the late-night string of posts. 3 in a row is a bad look lol.)

Edited November 5, 2023 by Richard Noggin

[Bimmer323i]

I sure would feel a lot better if Milano White and Jones weren’t hurt but here’s to it…. I hope we smash the living f***outta Bengals… Can’t stand those cocky f***s….

Edited November 5, 2023 by Bimmer323i

[Aimee75]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If we lose a close hard fought battle, I can live with that.  It greatly hurts us in the playoff hunt but I can live with the actual game.  If we get blown out again, I am going back into bleak mode.

 

Leslie was quoted as saying he doesn't make a lot of changes because they go with what they practice.  McD's defense is a little more aggressive but mostly the same as far as I can tell. Im no defensive expert though.  I felt like it was doing a better job when we had healthy players but losing White, Milano, and Jones have hurt a lot.

Same. I am actually sort of dreading this one. It seems like The Bengals have our number, and if we lose, it's our 4th conference loss and we will be in a position where we may have to win out, or lose just one more game, given how tight the AFC is. The Bengals are in a tough spot too, because they are last in their division. It's a must win for both teams, but given how our D can't seem to stop them, and neither could SF's(and imho they have a healthier/stronger D) I just don't feel good about this. Sometimes I hate night games, because you don't have a lot of time to process what happened before going to bed and having to get up early. Ugh. If its close and we lose, at least we will know we can hang with them. If we get murdered, I will again be side eyeing Beane for the weird and uneventful off season we had.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Poyer better have his head on straight.  Just listened to the RG3 podcast and he talks about using that Ayahuasca crap.  No wonder he has lost a step 🤣

[Not at the table Karlos]

14 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

have you heard any more about Suh possibly coming here in the next few weeks? Would still love to add him

Has there been anything about Suh coming here? I’ve seen people bring up he would be a good addition but nothing saying he’s coming here. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

14 hours ago, Caesar said:

 

Great points.  I can share that Bengals and KC fans go back and forth with the, "If Pat had Chase, Higgins, Boyd...", and we reply if, "Joe went to a playoff team out of college, a solid org with money, HOF TE Kelce, Tyreek Hill, and Andy Reid...."

But there is no retort when it comes to Josh, he hasnt had a bevy of weapons, Daboll was really solid but no Andy Reid & the current OC is a still a question mark.  The Bills are a better overall org than Cincy, but Josh came from a community college and Wyoming whereas Joe learned at Ohio State and LSU.  

When it comes to opportunities given, Josh has risen so much higher with less than almost every QB.  

 

Well said!

 

I don't understand the the animosity some on here have shown you. The only criticism I have of you is your whimpy avatar!

[Pete]

Playing Poyer had LB is brilliant.  It helps offset Milano a little, and gives us a match up cover LB that hits like a Mack truck

[Commish]

Not worth a new thread, but I loved this analysis of Allen:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpTSrmbFyTk

[BuffaloMatt]

I love being the underdog today. National media is all in on Cincy. No one is picking the Bills in any capacity and I too think this is a bad matchup for the Bills. That said, I am drawn back to Thanksgiving versus Dallas. It has got that feel.. . . No one picked the Bills to win.  . . no one. They did, it was Josh's national coming out party, and tonite feels eerily similar to me. Go Bills! 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I really like what we did this week to help the defense. Can we just please live through the growing pains with Williams though? At least that guy is capable of making impact plays and a difference. Dodson is a literal waste. I really don’t care if he “knows where to be” if he can’t be there or do anything with the information once he gets there. 42 is a fire cracker out there. That’s what I want from a LB. A guy that  you might not want to make direct eye contact with because he’s a little off. The type of guy that might break your helmet in half on a tackle but then look up and see you never even had the ball.

[Simon]

48 minutes ago, NewEra said:

So I called him out on their message board after he said that 99% of tbd thinks we should’ve been undefeated 2 years in a row.  He also said that TBD thinks that Skylar Thompson is a great QB. 
 

he got so butt hurt that he slid into my DM’s and continued with his mature responses

 

For the love of god, enough of this bullshlt. This is the game week thread and nobody wants to read it in here.

I already had to spend a bunch of time last night cleaning out pages of this nonsense.

There are 4-5 of you that need to put each other on ignore and be done with it. Either that or take it to private messaging.

Just keep the repetitive personal drama out of here, please.

[LyndonvilleBill]

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I really like what we did this week to help the defense. Can we just please live through the growing pains with Williams though? At least that guy is capable of making impact plays and a difference. Dodson is a literal waste. I really don’t care if he “knows where to be” if he can’t be there or do anything with the information once he gets there. 42 is a fire cracker out there. That’s what I want from a LB. A guy that  you might not want to make direct eye contact with because he’s a little off. The type of guy that might break your helmet in half on a tackle but then look up and see you never even had the ball.

I agree, but I can understand not having 2 new LB'S out there. Especially this game. Being in some close games, I think McD was smart to play it the way he has. Need a couple of blowout games to get him some extra snaps.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

7 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I agree, but I can understand not having 2 new LB'S out there. Especially this game. Being in some close games, I think McD was smart to play it the way he has. Need a couple of blowout games to get him some extra snaps.

Eh at this point Bernard is fine. This guy is better than Edmunds was in year 4 already. Let it rip

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Didn't Poyer take a couple bad angles in preseason (I know, who cares) and in the first game or two prior to the injury? Now, characterizing a defender's "bad angle" can also be the result of hesitance, false steps, and/or a lack of footspeed/range (which you explicitly recognize in your post).

 

I recall seeing Hyde being more active in the box and coming downhill at the beginning of the season, and I wonder if that means Poyer was playing the deeper role more often, which would have then really shined a light on his diminished range? Therefore, this recent adjustment to him explicitly lining up on the 2nd level would be a way to reduce the space he has to cover, allowing him to leverage his instincts while mitigating his diminished speed?

 

Yeah, I agree, Poyer playing deep would highlight any decrease in speed/range, and I've had the thought that lining up closer to the LOS may help him maximize what he's got left.

 

But Boyst is right it also physically punishes and takes a toll on the body - something Poyer has never shied away from.

 

1 hour ago, BuffaloMatt said:

I love being the underdog today. National media is all in on Cincy. No one is picking the Bills in any capacity and I too think this is a bad matchup for the Bills. That said, I am drawn back to Thanksgiving versus Dallas. It has got that feel.. . . No one picked the Bills to win.  . . no one. They did, it was Josh's national coming out party, and tonite feels eerily similar to me. Go Bills! 

 

May you be right!

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[26TrapDraw]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, I agree, Poyer playing deep would highlight any decrease in speed/range, and I've had the thought that lining up closer to the LOS may help him maximize what he's got left.

 

But Boyst is right it also physically punishes and takes a toll on the body - something Poyer has never shied away from.

 

 

May you be right!

 

Same as Miami a few weeks ago. No one Gave the Bills a chance . We smoked the fish. Josh gets up for Big Games. Let’s hope the rest of the team can too. Personally I’d love for Josh to remind the Media that they don’t know *****.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I really like what we did this week to help the defense. Can we just please live through the growing pains with Williams though? At least that guy is capable of making impact plays and a difference. Dodson is a literal waste. I really don’t care if he “knows where to be” if he can’t be there or do anything with the information once he gets there. 42 is a fire cracker out there. That’s what I want from a LB. A guy that  you might not want to make direct eye contact with because he’s a little off. The type of guy that might break your helmet in half on a tackle but then look up and see you never even had the ball.

 

There are different levels of "growing pains", though.  There's "guy gets it 90% of the time and makes mistakes/whiffs 10%" and maybe you live with that.  Then there's "you can see the wheels spinning and sometimes, the hamster is dead, and the wheel's still spinning, and he's chasing the play habitually". 

 

At that latter point, you not only hamstring your own D, you potentially destroy the player's confidence in himself and set him back.  Belicheck made him dance. I can't tell where Williams is there, but the coaches who watch film with him and see him in practice know.  Contrary to what some posters here believe, McDermott doesn't have any blanket prejudice against rookies where he won't play them even though they're marvelous.

 

I thought Bernard sucked because of how bad he looked vs the Jets last season, and then he never got back on the field.  I was "uh-oh, waste of a pick".  I'm not the only one either.  Turns out, Beane and McDermott knew something.  So I'm not going to quarrel with however they decide to use Williams.

 

As an MLB, he was clearly struggling mentally and getting sucked into play action, but he can thump as a tackler, and right now he and Bernard have about the same % of missed tackles. That's all I'll say, as I don't want to do "famous last words"

 

3 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Has there been anything about Suh coming here? I’ve seen people bring up he would be a good addition but nothing saying he’s coming here. 

 

@HappyDays said the Bills were doing medical work on Suh and someone else as DTs, but now that Joseph has been signed I expect that's been dropped. 

 

People are always wanting to keep adding at one or another position, but they don't necessarily figure out who to cut or how to keep balance on the roster.  Example, a couple weeks ago someone wanted to add Isabella to the active roster and cut Poona Ford.  Now we need Poona Ford.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

There are different levels of "growing pains", though.  There's "guy gets it 90% of the time and makes mistakes/whiffs 10%" and maybe you live with that.  Then there's "you can see the wheels spinning and sometimes, the hamster is dead, and the wheel's still spinning, and he's chasing the play habitually". 

 

At that latter point, you not only hamstring your own D, you potentially destroy the player's confidence in himself and set him back.  Belicheck made him dance. I can't tell where Williams is there, but the coaches who watch film with him and see him in practice know.  Contrary to what some posters here believe, McDermott doesn't have any blanket prejudice against rookies where he won't play them even though they're marvelous.

 

I thought Bernard sucked because of how bad he looked vs the Jets last season, and then he never got back on the field.  I was "uh-oh, waste of a pick".  I'm not the only one either.  Turns out, Beane and McDermott knew something.  So I'm not going to quarrel with however they decide to use Williams.

 

As an MLB, he was clearly struggling mentally and getting sucked into play action, but he can thump as a tackler, and right now he and Bernard have about the same % of missed tackles. That's all I'll say, as I don't want to do "famous last words"

Maybe if the guy we were replacing him with wasn’t so blah. This guy truthfully doesn’t even belong on the active roster IMO. If Dodson was capable of almost doing anything ever, I’d be fine with it. I get it, you are replacing the best player on our Defense and anyone is going to look bad. But when Williams is out there he’s capable of playing at modern NFL speed. Milano is a monster, I’m not asking anyone to be him. But Dodson is like he’s running in cement. Then the guy doesn’t even hit anyone. If you are a plotting LB that has almost no quickness, you better be blowing guys off their feet when you hit them. The guy is just neither somehow. I’d almost prefer Klein

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Maybe if the guy we were replacing him with wasn’t so blah. This guy truthfully doesn’t even belong on the active roster IMO. If Dodson was capable of almost doing anything ever, I’d be fine with it. I get it, you are replacing the best player on our Defense and anyone is going to look bad. But when Williams is out there he’s capable of playing at modern NFL speed. Milano is a monster, I’m not asking anyone to be him. But Dodson is like he’s running in cement. Then the guy doesn’t even hit anyone. If you are a plotting LB that has almost no quickness, you better be blowing guys off their feet when you hit them. The guy is just neither somehow. I’d almost prefer Klein

 

Dude, at this point you're essentially repeating "I don't like Dodson, Dodson bad" multiple times with no rationale to back it up.  And clearly nothing anyone could present in the way of actual analysis would persuade you.

 

So, have fun with that!

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude, at this point you're essentially repeating "I don't like Dodson, Dodson bad" multiple times with no rationale to back it up.  And clearly nothing anyone could present in the way of actual analysis would persuade you.

 

So, have fun with that!

The rationale is he has been beaten out by almost every LB on the roster since the day he’s been here. He never makes plays, can’t run, isn’t helpful against the run or pass truthfully. Not really good at anything required to play the position and should be a STs only guy. What do you want me to give you tangibly about a rotational backup LB? He makes zero impact plays. You want PFF grades? I mean all those things are subjective. Idk what to say, watch the game. The guy sucks. It’s not the end of the world. All I’m saying is id prefer the guy with athleticism if the replacement is pedestrian. Don’t really feel like it’s out of line tbh.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[hondo in seattle]

17 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Except that several "film room guys" and a coach have broken down play after play and shown that Allen in fact has alternatives on many (not all) plays

 

Yeah, I'm aware.

 

I watched the O'Sullivan breakdown and was kind of amazed at how - even after 50 years of watching football - how much I don't know or don't notice.  It was humbling.  

 

Though it's still not wrong for me to give the OC some of the credit when an offense is humming and some of the blame when it's not.  It is, after all, his job to make it hum.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

Though it's still not wrong for me to give the OC some of the credit when an offense is humming and some of the blame when it's not.  It is, after all, his job to make it hum.  

 

I can agree with that. 

 

The point I want to put out there is, while Josh rightly gets credit when he makes splendid, improvisational, "2 guys in the league could make that throw" plays....the OC does not always deserve blame for "not scheming open alternatives".  Sometimes Josh is going off-schedule because he has to.  Sometimes he's not, there is an easier play he could make within the design of the play.  I would guesstimate it at 2/3 but that's totally a SWAG

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The rationale is he has been beaten out by almost every LB on the roster since the day he’s been here. He never makes plays, can’t run, isn’t helpful against the run or pass truthfully. Not really good at anything required to play the position and should be a STs only guy. What do you want me to give you tangibly about a rotational backup LB? He makes zero impact plays. You want PFF grades? I mean all those things are subjective. Idk what to say, watch the game. The guy sucks. It’s not the end of the world. All I’m saying is id prefer the guy with athleticism if the replacement is pedestrian. Don’t really feel like it’s out of line tbh.

 

Again, this at core is another hyperbolic way of saying "I just really don't like Dodson" but I'll take it on because one aspect interests me.

 

Dodson's first year on the roster was 2020, so this is his 4th year.  He's always been behind Tremaine Edmunds (1st round pick and $8M free agent) and Matt Milano (Guided Missile gaining recognition as one of the best in the league before injury).   So he's a backup.  News flash, if backups were starter quality, they'd likely be starting somewhere else.  He was beaten out by AJ Klein, the savvy vet steeped in McDermott's defense, in 2020.  Also fair point.

 

That doesn't mean he "never makes plays, can't run, isn't helpful against the run or pass truthfully" or that "he has been beaten out by almost every LB  on the roster since the day he's been here". 

In his time here he has beaten out by  players on the roster for 1 or more games (not counting camp and preseason guys)

2020 Andre Smith (7th round), Del'Shawn Phillips (UDFA), Darron Lee (1st), Deon Lacy (UDFA).  He also starts ahead of Tyler Matakevich, who is here as ST.

2021 Joe Giles-Harris (UDFA) and still, Tyler Matakevich, who is here as ST.

2022 Baylon Spector, Terrel Bernard (Bernard started the Jets game and flamed out, Dodson then got snaps at Minnesota Cleveland and Detroit)

 

And that's not counting the guys who never made it out of training camp or off the practice squad.

 

Guys who can't run can't hit and never make plays can't play ST either.  They'd be replaced by STers who can run, can hit, and can tackle.  In his start against Pittsburgh last season, Dodson had 11 tackles.  Start against Cleveland, 13.  Not too shabby for a guy who can't run, hit, and never makes plays.

 

It's fine to prefer the guy with athletic upside and potential over the known factor who isn't long-term starter quality, but in the exaggerated form you're making your point, it's a bad take.  I'd love it if the coaches saw Williams as at a point where he can play himself into improvement, but they don't.

 

You're not alone; it's a TBD tradition to anoint a whipping boy and start banging the drum for a rookie who's on the depth chart behind him.  Next step is imputations of some broad-sweeping policy (McDermott won't play rookies even if they're clearly better in every way) or some conspiracy type theory. 

 

There's always a handful who get all "I'm 100% smarter than our stupid coaches who get paid the big bucks to evaluate and train up football players".  

 

Congratulations on joining that crowd and I'll leave you to it.

 

 

 

[julian]

With the Dolphins losing to another good team the season is there for the taking for Allen and the Bills.

 

 With a big game and win in prime time tonight Allen can put himself atop the MVP race and have his team back into 1st in the division and very much in the one seed hunt.

[DuckyBoys]

Rasul needs to be active  If a 35 yard old corner can come be active right off the couch than Douglas can play right away

[Warriorspikes51]

9 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Has there been anything about Suh coming here? I’ve seen people bring up he would be a good addition but nothing saying he’s coming here. 

HappyDays who has a proven record of breaking news with roster moves, injuries, etc said his source told him Suh & Matt loannidis would both be made official after taking their physicals.

 

(I assume Suh to 53 and Matt L to PS)

If we were going to be bringing in both of them, I’m hoping it means we’ll still sign Suh next week

 

maybe Linval Joseph had multiple teams after him and then decided on the Bills?

 

perhaps Suh is waiting to see how we perform against Cincy before coming?

I’d see Suh as an upgrade to Tim Settle.

 

Oliver

Joseph

Suh

Phillips

Ford

Edited November 5, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[first_and_ten]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:52 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

With 2K posts, this isn't your first time on a message board.  

Why do you care to defend him this much?  I could turn my off switch as much as you can turn your off to me right?

 

Do you think this is worth continuing?  I don't and should stop derailing this thread which I have done enough.

 

With 2K posts, I'm  not on this message board a lot. I do care to defend a person's right to post, as long as it's not defamatory. You do have the right to complain about another poster. But, as stated, why do you care? Why does his posts affect you so much? You're borderline whining, which is in itself annoying.