If the Bills defense is healthy, they're 6-1 right now

[dave mcbride]

56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's really more that it's just an area of weakness that their undersized, pass-centric defense has a hard time getting over when they put trash in there at DT1T.    Jones game has been elevated by the style of defense.   When he was a plugger in TN he wasn't very impactful.   As I've said for years.......this defense funnels action/opportunity into the middle and that's why Edmunds' play was not acceptable considering his opportunities.   I think the Bills could find another Jones.......unfortunately the guys they have scouted and acquired have been guys who just won't do the work.   Watch them go out of their way to chase DJ Reader again this offseason.   That was the one that got away..........they were willing to pay him even when they were stuck in the middle of Lotulelei's gawdawful contract.   

Reader v. Saffold is one of the most lopsided one-game matchups I've ever witnessed.

45 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I'm not even sure you need to include White in there, but Jones, Milano and this past week Oliver.  Read many posts that injuries are no excuse, but how many teams have lost probably their 4 best defensive players (including Oliver this past week)  That's more uncommon.  Article yesterday said Bills lead the league in percentage of players on IR and that's not including Knox if he goes there.

Here's the thing about Tre White: he actually has an INT (and on a nice play/read). Not one Bills CB currently on the 53-man roster has a single INT through seven games. That's ... not good. Speaks to a lack of playmaking ability at that position.

[WNYFAN1]

And frankly they should absolutely be 3-4 right now. They are beyond lucky to have won that Giants game.

[QB Bills]

Probably true but it's also just as true that if the offense played the way they've shown they're capable, they'd be undefeated despite the injuries on defense. That's the frustrating part.

 

The easy part of their schedule where they should be banking wins is quickly coming to an end. The offense needs to wake up or they're not sniffing the playoffs this season.

[Blackbeard]

If Norwood would've...

 

 

[Low Positive]

I think that there is a non-insignificant portion of TBD that would actually put money on a 4-13 record for the Bills. 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

If D Jones, Milano and Tre White are on the field, I think they beat both Jacksonville and New England.

I don't know if they can find a way to overcome a second straight season of having their defense worse than decimated, but I also don't want to pretend they did a suck-ass job of putting together a roster that can win in this league. Because if they had the roster right now that they had at the beginning of the year, teams would absolutely fear them, and rightly so.

I realize that's ifs and buts; however, it does speak to the credible job the coaching staff and front office did in the offseason.

If we won the Super Bowl last year, I wouldn’t mind that we’re 4-3 lol

[streetkings01]

Offense has been the issue in all of our losses not the defense 🤷🏽‍♂️

[Big Blitz]

Right before Tre got hurt it felt like a team that could win it all. And it’s true the injuries on D might make a SB run near impossible.  But they could if the offense which has upgraded everywhere except WR2 plays like it should be.  
 

I will argue that part of roster construction and coaching needs to account for the inevitable injuries.  You can only do so much for depth but the following positions absolutely must have starter quality backups not necessarily all pros:  

 

WR

CB

OT 
DE 
 

The FO absolutely has to be saying in June if Milano goes down who is going in because the season can’t be over if he’s hurt.  If Diggs goes down who is WR 1.  It feels like this FO said well, if they go down we’re done anyway.  Ok.  At least their jobs are safe.  
 

If this defense has fallen off a cliff because it lost Dequan Jones that’s a coaching and front office fail.  

 

I can accept that we won’t be stopping let alone slowing down a fully functioning Miami or KC or Philadelphia offense.  
 

But it’s unacceptable this fully healthy offense is getting worse and more importantly our once in a generation franchise QB is all in his head about proper mind set.  

Edited October 25, 2023 by Big Blitz

[KOKBILLS]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

If D Jones, Milano and Tre White are on the field, I think they beat both Jacksonville and New England.

I don't know if they can find a way to overcome a second straight season of having their defense worse than decimated, but I also don't want to pretend they did a suck-ass job of putting together a roster that can win in this league. Because if they had the roster right now that they had at the beginning of the year, teams would absolutely fear them, and rightly so.

I realize that's ifs and buts; however, it does speak to the credible job the coaching staff and front office did in the offseason.

 

Agreed... Not trying to make excuses for last weeks performance because even banged up that was really bad. But losing Oliver is the absolute last ting this Defense needs considering all the other injuries. I knew that was going to be trouble. I just had no idea it would be THAT MUCH trouble. 

[MasterStrategist]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

If D Jones, Milano and Tre White are on the field, I think they beat both Jacksonville and New England.

I don't know if they can find a way to overcome a second straight season of having their defense worse than decimated, but I also don't want to pretend they did a suck-ass job of putting together a roster that can win in this league. Because if they had the roster right now that they had at the beginning of the year, teams would absolutely fear them, and rightly so.

I realize that's ifs and buts; however, it does speak to the credible job the coaching staff and front office did in the offseason.

Not to undermine your 1st point, because I agree we are 5-2 or 6-1.  BUT...we can play this "what if" game on many things:

1. What if...offense hadn't been a mess in our 3 losses

2. What if...offense didn't dominate Miami, do we still win with a healthy defense?

 

On the 2nd point, I do think McD is doing best we can ask for on defense.  Offense coaching is clearly underperforming/unit shouldn't be struggling in 1st halves so much.

 

But, on that 2nd point (re:Front Office), we've been good NOT great-bad list:

1. Elam- can't waste 1st round picks

2. Backup 1 tech DT: no plan to address this, sorry Poona wasn't the plan either.  Now go into next year with just Ed under contract

3. WR2: ALOT of offseason debate, as of now looks like the Gabe train is off track

 

Lots of games left this year, but if we don't win Thurs night that will be 2 straight "should be" wins (couldve been 3) and that's a coaching issue.  

 

Next year, Beane needs to basically hit on every early pick again and be extremely wise spending FA...we are in cap trouble with a handful of poor/underperforming contracts.

[TampaBillsJunkie]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

I think it’s as simple as if Milano was playing we would be 6-1. He wins games single handed. He is a game changer. 

DaQuon Jones is the key to making the D work. Milano is 2nd. We all saw what happened in Cinci last year. Milano played. Jones out. The D fell apart. they are both vital to this D, but Jones is the one we can't replace. 

[Scott7975]

Probably true, but if they stayed healthy all season would they fall apart in the playoffs again?  Our offense should have kicked up a gear because that defense wouldn't have mattered if they played the way they should be playing with an elite qb.

[Radar]

We overrate our defense when healthy but, yes injuries hurt. No, we wouldn't be 6-1 if healthy.

[BananaB]

Can’t do anything about it now. We got a D coach that spent most of resources in draft and FA the past few years on building his D. They gotta perform regardless. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by BananaB

[Chicken Boo]

If Carson Wentz doesn't shred his knee in December of 2017, he wins league MVP.

 

The defense being healthy is no excuse for the inconsistencies on offense.  

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

I think we all knew deep down that the season was essentially over in terms of winning it all after the first five minutes in Jacksonville. Still I think they have enough good players to put up some performances here forward worthy of convincing ourselves they still have a shot at the Lombardi. Similar to ‘21 after Tre went down and ‘22 after Von went down. 

 

If our entire season is gone because of a few injuries to our defense, then something's terribly wrong.  

 

#1 Jersey sales are 17 for a reason.  

 

And if we need is a game manager, then trade Josh and get one in here and get some adequate depth so with the loss of two players we don't go from 1st or 2nd to 31st or 32nd on defense.  That sounds like the wrong approach for 2023 where everything revolves around offense, including the rules to support it.  But hey, what do we know.  

 

Maybe a good question would be why our OL and WRs aren't better.  But that's to impugn Beane, so we can't have that.  LOL  It apparently has nothing to do with coaching either many still maintain.  LOL  Well, alright ... 

 

We've had the second easiest schedule to date of any team in the league.  The only team with an easier schedule to date is the Bears at 2-5.  

 

The Bengals had most of their OL missing and still managed to go to KC for the AFC CG and take it to the wire.  I'm sure that those weren't their only injuries.  

 

As one example.  

Joey Bosa, you know, Joey Bosa, perennial 1st-Team All-Pro, on a team bereft of D otherwise other than Mack for the most part generally speaking, and yet they went 8-4 in his absence.  Three of the four teams that they lost to during that stretch were playoff teams, two of which were the Niners and Chiefs.  

 

We struggled against the Giants, which as a reminder would have been a loss except for absurd blunders by their coaching staff and backup QB, and the Mac Jones Pats, whom the Raiders and Saints beat.  Besides Crosby, who on their defenses is significantly better than, as whole, we have now?  

 

And what, our offense isn't capable of even approaching the offensive output generated by Carr, Olave and some JAGs and a rookie in NO?  

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by PBF81

[uticaclub]

The defense even when healthy always lets us down, thats to be expected. The lack of talent on offense is the problem.

[Riverboat Ritchie]

If my Aunt had a d!ck, she’d be my uncle. Injuries happen. We have been bit hard but O largely still healthy. 

[Gregg]

1 hour ago, Blackbeard said:

If Norwood would've...

 

 

 

1990 Super Bowl champions. WOO HOO!!!

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I mean I agree, but the defense would be bailing out some wildly inconsistent and sloppy offensive play. 

[teef]

if ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

 

 

 

i just wanted to add something.

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

As I've stated before, DaQuon Jones is the straw that stirs the drink on that D. His absence from the Bengals game killed them. He's arguably their most crucial defensive player. 

It's him and Milano. When those 2 went out in London, my feeling was fire the season away. White, we survived last year without and figured we could scheme the back end. Those 2 players are what under Allen, diggs and Dawkins on the irreplaceable list?

 

To me the only way to combat this is to lean heavier into the offense and follow the Chiefs motto, score TDs and get the other team playing from behind and one dimensional. Trying to grind clock to keep the D off the field allows them full use of their playbook and further stresses them team and puts even more pressure on the offense to work in heroics...jmo of course 

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

If D Jones, Milano and Tre White are on the field, I think they beat both Jacksonville and New England.

I don't know if they can find a way to overcome a second straight season of having their defense worse than decimated, but I also don't want to pretend they did a suck-ass job of putting together a roster that can win in this league. Because if they had the roster right now that they had at the beginning of the year, teams would absolutely fear them, and rightly so.

I realize that's ifs and buts; however, it does speak to the credible job the coaching staff and front office did in the offseason.

Also if they did not choke away two very winnable games, they would be 6-1. 

[zow2]

How come the Bills can't overcome injuries like some other good teams in recent years.  I get it, you cannot replace Milano or Tre, but others can step and play well enough to keep things under control.  The Bills still had Allen, Diggs and most of the offense intact recently.  

[BillsPride12]

10 minutes ago, zow2 said:

How come the Bills can't overcome injuries like some other good teams in recent years.  I get it, you cannot replace Milano or Tre, but others can step and play well enough to keep things under control.  The Bills still had Allen, Diggs and most of the offense intact recently.  

I agree part of the NFL is overcoming injuries....but the problems on Offense have nothing to do with injuries.  Defensively I think they deserve a pass because losing Daquan, Milano, Tre indefinitely and then not having guys like Rousseau and Oliver at spurts are truly significant losses.  I can't be mad at the Defense for slipping with how much of the talent has been lost already.  

 

I mean the team still has to go Next Man Up and do everything they can to prepare guys to step in and do the role the best they can....but as a fan I'm not going to sit here and criticize the Defense for underperforming 

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

How come the Bills can't overcome injuries like some other good teams in recent years.  I get it, you cannot replace Milano or Tre, but others can step and play well enough to keep things under control.  The Bills still had Allen, Diggs and most of the offense intact recently.  

I agree that the offense is an entirely different problem, but it's undeniable that the defense is no longer in any position to "pick them up" on an off day.  Also, its tough to overcome the losses of multiple "essential" defensive players in back-to-back years.  The loss of a Milano or a White or a Daquan Jones should be survivable on their own, but combine them, and you have a situation that isn't simply overcome by "next man up" or team defense principles.  At the end of the day, the teams with the most talent tend to win out.

[C.Biscuit97]

Appreciate the effort but your record is what your record is. The Giants could have easily beaten us. 
 

I blame the offense for not putting away teams with garbage offenses and letting them hang around. The Jets and Pats should have been over at half and made those garbage qbs one dimensional in the second half.

[BearNorth]

Jets game - Josh 3 picks and a fumbled snap.

 

Jags game - Defense gashed by Etienne after losing Jones and Milano on the lousy field surface

 

Patriots game - McDermott's defense let the #25 ranked offense drive the length of the field for a TD in 1:46 of clock time.

[Low Positive]

8 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Jets game - Josh 3 picks and a fumbled snap.

 

Jags game - Defense gashed by Etienne after losing Jones and Milano on the lousy field surface

 

Patriots game - McDermott's defense let the #25 ranked offense drive the length of the field for a TD in 1:46 of clock time.

It’s that third one that gets me. You have to be able to scheme around defensive injuries. The Pats and Giants defenses are also MASH units and they played us just fine. Figure it out McD!