Devils advocate...what is Josh is the problem?

[Mango]

Josh has done this for a good portion of his career. He’s generally bailed himself out of it with his athleticism and/or by throwing fast balls. 
 

Josh is very good. He can be better too. But he isn’t THE problem. There are a lot of things going on right now. But like everything else in the NFL, most things are covered up by better QB play. Mid season it’s maybe the only plausible solution. There isn’t another OC. We can’t go back and re-write contacts, or re-do FA/the draft. 

[BaaadThingsMan]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

Huh?

Exactly. I'm confused by the title myself.

[Low Positive]

Just now, BaaadThingsMan said:

Exactly. I'm confused by the title myself.

Gotcha. I read right over that.

[Mango]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Toward the end of 2021, Josh was firing on all cylinders.  Daboll let his athleticism loose. Then something was lost when Dorsey took over. Josh was top 3 in MVP voting for 3 straight years. To some degree because of the Jets debacle, he's been neutered or tamed if you will.  His edge just isn't there anymore and it's reflected in his behavior on the bench. He's not animated, he's not firing up his players. A scrub 7th round qb pretending to be an NFL OC isn't helping. McD has no clue about offensive structure. We should've lost to NYG, and yesterday was just as embarrassing. 

Josh had his most rushing attempts with his second best YPC last year. He was plenty athletic last year. Whatever is going on right now is a new problem for everybody. 
 

When we say “it’s been worse since Dorsey took over…” you have to toss out a year of him as OC (2022) where it wasn’t worse, and wasn’t less athletic and all 3 years as Josh’s QB coach. It seems like a reach to say that one day Dorsey woke and and said “let’s do a 180 on absolutely everything we’ve been working on for the last 4 years”.

 

It feels like the easy answer here is that our QB who has been inconsistent since we drafted him has been…inconsistent. 
 

I don’t love all of Dorsey’s play designs. I also don’t like all his play calls. But this idea that there has been drastic shift in what Josh is and is not allowed to do seems far out there. Allen has had 2 great games. A mediocre game or two, and two clunkers. 
 

The offense needs to evolve. That includes Josh. 

[Mr. WEO]

what is what is?

[Success]

I saw on one of the shows that he had to hurry his throws over 40% of the time.

 

For whatever reason, protection broke down yesterday.  

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

Josh had his most rushing attempts with his second best YPC last year. He was plenty athletic last year. Whatever is going on right now is a new problem for everybody. 
 

When we say “it’s been worse since Dorsey took over…” you have to toss out a year of him as OC (2022) where it wasn’t worse, and wasn’t less athletic and all 3 years as Josh’s QB coach. It seems like a reach to say that one day Dorsey woke and and said “let’s do a 180 on absolutely everything we’ve been working on for the last 4 years”.

 

It feels like the easy answer here is that our QB who has been inconsistent since we drafted him has been…inconsistent. 
 

I don’t love all of Dorsey’s play designs. I also don’t like all his play calls. But this idea that there has been drastic shift in what Josh is and is not allowed to do seems far out there. Allen has had 2 great games. A mediocre game or two, and two clunkers. 
 

The offense needs to evolve. That includes Josh. 

 

So it seems to be specifically a 1st half issue.  Mainly in terms of them being able to protect Allen properly and it takes them until halftime to figure it out.  Then in the 2nd half the O is unstoppable mostly.  Last 9 "real possessions" in 2nd half. 7 TDs, 1 missed FG, 1 TO on downs after gaining 42 yards. 0 punts.  

 

So then it becomes, why are those answers not there after the first or second drive of the first half?  What are they doing at halftime specifically that they couldn't do after a drive or two when you keep seeing the same things over and over again?

[Mikie2times]

Josh is a challenging player to try and build a championship with. Which ranks as a problem most people would love to have. The NFL is a precise game and Josh is not a precise player. He makes his hay in the chaos when design falls apart. If you force him to stay in the design it actually make him worse. If you let him play free you get almost unlimited upside but consistency issues that likely make it hard to win a championship.

 

How do you address it? He is the team. As an OC or HC, you want to build an offense that is repeatable and systematic.  Again, that's not who he is.  I have no idea what the answer is TBH.  With him here, we will always be above average. He just does so much on his own. But how do we take the next step or how do we build toward the next step? I have no clue. 

 

 

[LanderPoke]

Josh is the only thing right with the offense . This ***** team would be 2-15 without Josh

[TheBrownBear]

Josh is Josh.  He's never going to be perfect.  All in all, he's been pretty damn good this year outside of the Jets game.  Struggles the past three weeks have mostly been first half execution errors, penalties, dropped balls, etc., that sort of thing.  

[LanderPoke]

12 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Josh is Josh.  He's never going to be perfect.  All in all, he's been pretty damn good this year outside of the Jets game.  Struggles the past three weeks have mostly been first half execution errors, penalties, dropped balls, etc., that sort of thing.  

Plus no running game. Either josh has to evade three rushers and make a spectacular play every time or everything goes to hell in a hand basket. The OL blows and so do most of the receivers and the offensive coaching staff

[Marcus Aurelius]

1 hour ago, Calidiehard said:

So far between last night and today I've read:

1. Josh isn't taking what is given

2. Josh isn't reading the defense and locking into on guy

3. Josh is going through his progressions too fast

4. Josh isn't throwing down field enough

5. Josh isn't throwing to the underneath guys enough

6. Josh isn't running enough

7. Josh isn't taking enough chances

8. Josh is being too reckless throwing into coverage 

9. Josh doesn't trust (name which player you want)

10. Josh doesn't look like he cares out there

 

So which is it? Maybe it's a collective effort of recievers not getting much separation, poor play design (guys in same area along and at the same level too often), and a lack of trust with guys dropping the ball or maybe not being where they should be. There is a lot of things not working right now and none of us has a clue as to how they can fix it. We just have to suffer through the ride that is the 2023 Bills.

 

11. The problem is poor poster spelling 

[John from Riverside]

I was listening to the hashtag sports podcast after the game and they brought up something that is very possible

 

Josh might be injured

 

It would explain two things

 

Miss throws

His passes are all fastballs no touch

Reluctance to run

 

Actually, that’s three things

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Those delayed blitzes have our whole offense rattled it seems josh included…I think he’s not really sure when he can hold the ball and attack downfield and when he’s gotta dump it off quick anymore. Sometimes he diagnoses a quick blitz effectively and throws it hot…sometimes a delayed blitz turns into a jailbreak type scenario because nobody can block anybody despite it being ‘delayed’ lol

 

silver lining if we end up powering through this we’ll be a better team for it.  That is a decently big ‘if’ though at this time 

still think this is the best josh we’ve seen I kind of feel bad for him honestly…he’s not perfect by any means but the last 3 weeks have been the typical games in past years where he’s absolutely awful and this year he’s played pretty well.  the stats won’t reflect it though

Edited October 23, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[BillsFanSD]

Josh is not the problem.  The offense Josh is trying to run does, however, appear to be a problem.

[H2o]

Josh is not the problem. I think he is still adjusting to life without Daboll, regardless of what anyone else would say. Their relationship was different. Closer. I think they truly understood one another. Hopefully they get out of Josh's head and just let Josh ball. I can take whatever comes after that, win or lose. 

[Mikie2times]

25 minutes ago, LanderPoke said:

Josh is the only thing right with the offense . This ***** team would be 2-15 without Josh

 

Somebody can be two things at once.

 

Josh is one of the best QB's in football and is most the reason we are decent. How he goes about that is limiting towards offensive growth because it's not by design. 

 

How do you grow as an offense when the main player in the offense doesn't want to be a part of the natural play design. 

 

[PayDaBill$]

This is my opinion on the matter. Josh is not the problem it’s McD.

 

Josh’s issue is McD’s problem and it goes all the way back to the Daboll and McD riff. I believe   McD wanted Daboll to do what Dorsey is doing this season and Daboll pushed back. Well  McD has finally got his scheme  in place and the offense is killing Josh and neutering his game.  Josh isn’t a system game managing sit in pocket, don’t run, hand it off & check down qb. I’m pretty convinced this is why he looks so miserable and has been having trouble.  It’s just not who he is!  Josh is currently in an offense that goes against everything that made him a threat. This scheme is not a fit for his game.

Edited October 23, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[Aimee75]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

Not allowed. Its someone else fault entirely. Josh can do no wrong. 

Obviously, in these parts, it's always Josh's fault. Always. He could have a perfect game, and if the defense blows it in the end, people in here will nitpick over a bad throw or drop and blame him. 

 

I live for chaos, and I almost wish The Bills would trade him to a team that is a QB away, and he goes to that team and they win a SB. It would be the funniest thing ever, and we could go back to trying to find another franchise QB for 20+ years again. It's what this fanbase deserves.

2 hours ago, Doc said:

If Josh is the problem, we'll just get a shiny new QB at the QB store.   

They're a dime a dozen. They grow on trees. Not only will our shiny new QB lead us to the promiseland, he will make Allen look like chopped liver. Can't wait till we snag him in the draft. 

[ngbills]

12 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

Obviously, in these parts, it's always Josh's fault. Always. He could have a perfect game, and if the defense blows it in the end, people in here will nitpick over a bad throw or drop and blame him. 

 

I live for chaos, and I almost wish The Bills would trade him to a team that is a QB away, and he goes to that team and they win a SB. It would be the funniest thing ever, and we could go back to trying to find another franchise QB for 20+ years again. It's what this fanbase deserves.

Multiple things can exist - Josh can play a bad game, he can still be one of the best QB's in the league, he can be the Bills QB, the coaches can suck. 99% of people on here love JA. Some get super sensitive if you say anything wrong about him. He would be the first to admit he wants 90% of that game back. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I have a couple questions to the Josh being the problem people. Do you think we will ever win a Super Bowl with McDermott as the coach? Do you think you could win a Super Bowl with Josh Allen at QB?

[97bills]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

He’s a unicorn with its horn being chopped off to appease the archaic notion of complementary football. 

This.. just think back two seasons ago when they tried that with Lamar Jackson. That didn’t work out, so finally they said just play your game. Same thing with allen , he’s been playing that style of football for years now, and now you want to change him .. it’s making him second guess what he’s doing, let him play his game , your going to get some great plays and some bad plays, but we’ve all seen he’s going to have way more great plays. 

[damj]

3 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

[Ray Finkel]

3 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

He does not scan the field like he did a couple of years ago.  This started last year.  I believe part of the problem is he doesn’t trust his line.  Just my opinion.

[Aimee75]

16 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Multiple things can exist - Josh can play a bad game, he can still be one of the best QB's in the league, he can be the Bills QB, the coaches can suck. 99% of people on here love JA. Some get super sensitive if you say anything wrong about him. He would be the first to admit he wants 90% of that game back. 

I don't find this to be true. I am not saying he does not have some people who love him, but there are a lot of people who are either fans of other teams trolling as Bills fans, or people who did not want him, and wait for him to either have a bad game to pounce, or, wait for the team to lose, and again, pounce and treat him as a scapegoat. I have been lurking on this forum for years. I really don't see this type of treatment of other great QB's of other teams on their respective boards, and I am not saying he is not without fault or has to be treated special. I can see putting the blame on him for the Jets disaster game. Absolutely, and the defense was stellar in that game. The last three weeks? Especially the last two? When the defense blows a hard fought comeback, then they should be called out as well. Don't care if it was a "mash unit", a lot of teams go through injury/adversity. Sorry, but the defense has a number of times over the years blown a "win". The Hail Murray game, The Tampa Bay game a couple years ago, 13 Seconds, yesterday. They should be called out, just like I would blame Josh for the Minnesota game last year. I can blame Josh too, but I am not going to blame him when I don't think the results of a game were his fault.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Aimee75

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I believe most offensive coordinators are only as good/bad as their QBs. 
 

 

[Mango]

58 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Those delayed blitzes have our whole offense rattled it seems josh included…I think he’s not really sure when he can hold the ball and attack downfield and when he’s gotta dump it off quick anymore. Sometimes he diagnoses a quick blitz effectively and throws it hot…sometimes a delayed blitz turns into a jailbreak type scenario because nobody can block anybody despite it being ‘delayed’ lol

 

silver lining if we end up powering through this we’ll be a better team for it.  That is a decently big ‘if’ though at this time 

still think this is the best josh we’ve seen I kind of feel bad for him honestly…he’s not perfect by any means but the last 3 weeks have been the typical games in past years where he’s absolutely awful and this year he’s played pretty well.  the stats won’t reflect it though

This is a fair take and I agree, in past season Josh would have turned these games into the Jets game. 
 

He’s not terrible. He’s really good. There’s sometimes an ebb and flow to QB’s in the NFL. Unlike other positions groups, the QB has to constant evolve. Right now we’re going through somethings Josh has been stagnant on and other teams are taking advantage. Add on some issues at WR, OL and general focus, and here we are. 

We just have to get hot at the right time. 

3 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I don't find this to be true. I am not saying he does not have some people who love him, but there are a lot of people who are either fans of other teams trolling as Bills fans, or people who did not want him, and wait for him to either have a bad game to pounce, or, wait for the team to lose, and again, pounce and treat him as a scapegoat. I have been lurking on this forum for years. I really don't see this type of treatment of other great QB's of other teams on their respective boards, and I am not saying he is not without fault or has to be treated special. I can see putting the blame on him for the Jets disaster game. Absolutely, and the defense was stellar in that game. The last three weeks? Especially the last two? When the defense blows a hard fought comeback, then they should be called out as well. Don't care if it was a "mash unit", a lot of teams go through injury/adversity. Sorry, but the defense has a number of times over the years blown a "win". The Hail Murray game, The Tampa Bay game a couple years ago, 13 Seconds, yesterday. They should be called out, just like I would blame Josh for the Minnesota game last year. I can blame Josh too, but I am not going to blame him when I don't think the results of a game were his fault.

The perceived rate of “trolls” on this board are way higher than it is in reality. 
 

I also don’t think there’s (many?) any 6 year grudges on the board because we “picked the wrong Josh”.

[ngbills]

14 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I don't find this to be true. I am not saying he does not have some people who love him, but there are a lot of people who are either fans of other teams trolling as Bills fans, or people who did not want him, and wait for him to either have a bad game to pounce, or, wait for the team to lose, and again, pounce and treat him as a scapegoat. I have been lurking on this forum for years. I really don't see this type of treatment of other great QB's of other teams on their respective boards, and I am not saying he is not without fault or has to be treated special. I can see putting the blame on him for the Jets disaster game. Absolutely, and the defense was stellar in that game. The last three weeks? Especially the last two? When the defense blows a hard fought comeback, then they should be called out as well. Don't care if it was a "mash unit", a lot of teams go through injury/adversity. Sorry, but the defense has a number of times over the years blown a "win". The Hail Murray game, The Tampa Bay game a couple years ago, 13 Seconds, yesterday. They should be called out, just like I would blame Josh for the Minnesota game last year. I can blame Josh too, but I am not going to blame him when I don't think the results of a game were his fault.

I dont know. For every negative JA post there are at least 10x more Dorsey, McD, need weapons, need tjis or that. A new QB is what I see being discussed the least on this board. 

[somnus00]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

“Josh’s 3 points at half also put the Bills in position to lose the game”

 

Those are your words right? Sure  sounds like you are putting all the blame on him to me. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Nice. Choosing to leave out a huge part of my statement in order to further you stance. Here's my complete statement (again, with the underlines and bold print to assist you):

 

Josh's 3 points in the first half also put the Bills in position to lose that game. This is a team sport, the fails don't fall solely on anyone. I love Josh, he's the QB I want for this team, but the offense has been putrid for the last 3 weeks, and bad for 5 of the 7 games. Josh deserves part of the blame for this as well, no?

 

Bro, just admit to yourself that you made a mistake and move on. It's for the best.

[Aimee75]

21 minutes ago, Mango said:

This is a fair take and I agree, in past season Josh would have turned these games into the Jets game. 
 

He’s not terrible. He’s really good. There’s sometimes an ebb and flow to QB’s in the NFL. Unlike other positions groups, the QB has to constant evolve. Right now we’re going through somethings Josh has been stagnant on and other teams are taking advantage. Add on some issues at WR, OL and general focus, and here we are. 

We just have to get hot at the right time. 

The perceived rate of “trolls” on this board are way higher than it is in reality. 
 

I also don’t think there’s (many?) any 6 year grudges on the board because we “picked the wrong Josh”.

I don't buy that. If they have 100-1000 posts, it's likely trolls. Some are pretty obvious. I won't name names, but I could name some that I have no doubt are. I also disagree with you about a six year grudge. There really is no good/sensible reason to not appreciate the guy who pretty much puts the team on his back and takes the team further than they would go with someone else. I feel like Bills fans(some, not all) have some sort of losers mentality and would prefer to go back to mediocrity, because that is safer and you don't have to get your hopes up.

 

I am sorry Mango, but I think this applies to you too. I literally saw you going on for pages upon pages about Josh knocking up a bartender and the whole situation with Brittany, and what you heard at a wedding etc I definitely think people gun for him a little over here, and for things that are not Football related.

14 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I dont know. For every negative JA post there are at least 10x more Dorsey, McD, need weapons, need tjis or that. A new QB is what I see being discussed the least on this board. 

Well, the "need weapons" is one of the few things I do agree with and that should have been addressed in the off season, but here we are.

[gobills404]

He’s not the problem, he just hasn’t consistently been the put-the-team-on-his-back solution in a while. 

[Ray Finkel]

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

His pick yesterday was a high-low concept the Bills run like 10 times per game. If the DB takes the underneath guy, then Allen is supposed to throw to the high guy. If the DB takes the high guy, then Allen is supposed to throw to the underneath guy.

 

Peppers said in his post game that he recognized the play and knew he was going to get a pick. He knew Allen was going to throw to the high receiver before he had even thrown it.

 

That is on Dorsey IMO. If the DB on the other team knows the plays well enough that they know exactly where the QB is gonna throw it, then that is a problem.

Getting outcoached often lately.

[2003Contenders]

I do sense a bit of loss in confidence on Josh's part -- but I think it is confidence he has lost in his teammates and play calling rather than confidence in himself. It's hard to blame him. Yesterday, he had trouble setting his feet before seeing pressure in his face. One play in particular we had 6 OL -- and a pass rusher STILL managed to get through. Meanwhile our own pass rush failed to pressure Jones really at all -- but that is a different topic...

 

One thing I noticed/remember back in 2020 was how Josh's receivers were going all out to reel in difficult/contested catches for him. In particular, I remember the season opener against the Jets back then when he had a couple of bone-headed fumbles but still managed to fit the ball into tight windows and wound up with his first 300-yard game of his career. That was followed the next week by his first 400-yard game (against Miami). I thought at the time that perhaps it was the "Diggs" effect, as this was Diggs' first season with the Bills, he was making great catches and the emphasis was also rubbing off on other guys.

 

It seems that we just are not seeing those great bale-out catches this year. Even from Diggs, who HAS been remarkable in 2023. For example, while Diggs had that great play on the TD, he also failed to haul in a couple of slightly off-target throws that we have seen him catch multiple times in the past. At the end of the game, Josh threw possibly his finest pass of the season with 12 seconds left, a pass that went 50 yards in the air on a rope that hit Diggs right in the hands. Was a torch like that easy to handle? Certainly not, but we have seen Diggs catch similar passes many times (in the final seconds against Detroit last Thanksgiving, for example). A catch there would have set us up at the 30 yard line with one play to go. A pass from the 30 yard line is by no means a sure thing -- but it is also not a Hail Mary.

 

The play calling is off -- but so is the design of far too many plays. It really does seem like everything the offense does seems to take so much effort. We saw the stat line showing how much more effective Josh is when the ball comes out of his hand quickly. Yet we see so few well constructed quick-hitting slants, etc. Maybe much of this is on Josh as he wants to forego such a play and try for something bigger downfield. There were times when he was flushed from the pocket and was unable to see an open receiver on the other side of the field -- but there were also far too many plays where he alluded a pass rusher, rolled out and every receiver was covered. It just seems like the receivers just are not getting separation on a consistent basis. Not sure how much of this is play design (like 3 receivers in the same vicinity) and how much of it is lack of talent from receivers not named Diggs. And, for the love of God, can we stop going to Knox in critical situations?

 

It is promising that Kincaid was such a factor yesterday -- and his hands appear to be for real. Maybe Josh will form a trust with him similar to what he had with Beasley and help get this offense back in gear.

[Ray Finkel]

Let the gunslinger gunsling 

[LEBills]

I still think Josh can be the top QB in the league when he wants to be. And I think he is probably an ok leader behind the scenes and in the huddle. But I’ve been watching Josh for a long time and I don’t see the fire I saw when he was at Wyoming or just before 13 seconds struck. I think a little part of it is him feeling like he made it…which he has.

 

But I think that is mostly on coaching. Without Daboll I don’t think anyone on the offensive side has the nuts to tell Josh to do better and tell him what he could do (except Stef but he is not a coach). That is the biggest problem imo. Just once I would like to see the camera pan to the sideline and have a coach sitting next to Josh looking at one of those tablets( what does Joe Brady even look like?). Or see him up huddling with his teammates getting them psyched up….Josh could be doing more but he is not the problem. Offensive coaching is the problem. But this is all jmo

[Mango]

46 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I don't buy that. If they have 100-1000 posts, it's likely trolls. Some are pretty obvious. I won't name names, but I could name some that I have no doubt are. I also disagree with you about a six year grudge. There really is no good/sensible reason to not appreciate the guy who pretty much puts the team on his back and takes the team further than they would go with someone else. I feel like Bills fans(some, not all) have some sort of losers mentality and would prefer to go back to mediocrity, because that is safer and you don't have to get your hopes up.

 

I am sorry Mango, but I think this applies to you too. I literally saw you going on for pages upon pages about Josh knocking up a bartender and the whole situation with Brittany, and what you heard at a wedding etc I definitely think people gun for him a little over here, and for things that are not Football related.

Well, the "need weapons" is one of the few things I do agree with and that should have been addressed in the off season, but here we are.

Troll seems to be a popular way for people to discredit anybodies opinion they don’t like without any dialogue. 
 

Less than 1000 posts? I had less than 1000 at one point. Everybody did. If you posted once per day it would take nearly 3 years to get out of troll status. That’s a really unfair standard to hold posters to. There has been a lot of new posters in who have provided some pretty solid feedback. 
 

I’m not holding any grudge. I like Josh. I want him to be better in a few areas. And yes those are things people told me. WTF do you want.
 

You aren’t even having conversations on this board. Unpopular opinions are trolls. And if they aren’t trolls they’re holding a 6 year grudge over the wrong Josh. There’s no good faith back and forth on your part. 
 

You aren’t the gatekeeper of legitimacy. This drives me bonkers. 

[Teddy KGB]

[Billever76]

4 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Josh put us in position to win the game and yet again the defense **** the bed and that falls solely on McD. 

At this point EVERYTHING falls on McDermott...he has had 7 seasons here and this team isn't as good as it should be...he has single handily handicapped our offense with focusing most of the high draft picks and FA money (cough cough von) on the defensive side of the ball and he turned around and gave Ken freaking dorsey the keys to the offense...and allen not running? We all know that fits perfectly into the ultra conservative McDermotts process hand book

[jlgarsh]

4 hours ago, somnus00 said:

Josh's 3 points in the first half also put the Bills in position to lose that game. This is a team sport, the fails don't fall solely on anyone. I love Josh, he's the QB I want for this team, but the offense has been putrid for the last 3 weeks, and bad for 5 of the 7 games. Josh deserves part of the blame for this as well, no?

They offense scores when they run no huddle. When they do that, Josh is calling the plays, and they look like the 2020-2021 Bills. When Dorsey calls them the other 50-55 minutes of the game, they look horrible. This isn't exactly the Da Vinci Code or a Rubik's cube. 

[Aimee75]

24 minutes ago, Mango said:

Troll seems to be a popular way for people to discredit anybodies opinion they don’t like without any dialogue. 
 

Less than 1000 posts? I had less than 1000 at one point. Everybody did. If you posted once per day it would take nearly 3 years to get out of troll status. That’s a really unfair standard to hold posters to. There has been a lot of new posters in who have provided some pretty solid feedback. 
 

I’m not holding any grudge. I like Josh. I want him to be better in a few areas. And yes those are things people told me. WTF do you want.
 

You aren’t even having conversations on this board. Unpopular opinions are trolls. And if they aren’t trolls they’re holding a 6 year grudge over the wrong Josh. There’s no good faith back and forth on your part. 
 

You aren’t the gatekeeper of legitimacy. This drives me bonkers. 

Boy did I hit a nerve or what? 🙄I have my own thoughts and opinions and am entitled to them, and people can feel free to disagree. I just think when you start getting into a players personal life, you get an idea of why there are some biases.