McDermott Hot Seat?

[PatsFanNH]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You could never have a new GM in Foxboro and keep Belichick around. How is that going to work? They have to clean house. Throw Bill a big ceremony and send him on his way.

True! My guess if the team keeps getting destroyed like the last 2 weeks he leaves on his own..

[BillsVet]

55 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

When will fans understand that Beane has FAR less power than McDermott?  Coach McDermott can get Beane fired, at least until Mr. Pegula wakes up from the trance he is in after McDermott sold him a bill of goods.

 

It's amazing how some people still think NFL front offices run the same or similarly where the HC reports to the GM who reports to the owner.  If that were the case, ownership would have hired the GM first who would have in turn hired the HC.  

 

At the end of 2016, TPegs had to have watched a dispute between GM and HC played out in the press during a mediocre season and wanted better.  In walks McD who gets hired because A) he was more organized that Rex ever would have been and B) represented the sole voice in the organization to prevent the internecine battles.  Yet, that last issue only gets addressed if the new HC controls the football side of the house with support from a personnel department.  And that's been the case since Day 1.  

 

Buffalo is at a point now where McD's vision is stale.  He can't let go of preferring the defensive side even with a franchise QB.  Sure, he'll go in with a 1st round offensive skill position pick, but then spend in UFA to keep his DL rotation intact as they throw token money toward low-end WR types.  It's no guarantee to hire an offensive-based coach, but you don't want to end up with a stubborn defensive one who thinks he's gotta be top-5 overall on their preferred side.     

 

 

 

[Gregg]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

True! My guess if the team keeps getting destroyed like the last 2 weeks he leaves on his own..

 

Kraft won't fire Bill in the normal way. They will allow him to step down and retire after the season. Besides if the Pats keep losing then they could have a shot at getting Caleb Williams in next year's draft.

[BillStime]

Just now, Gregg said:

 

Kraft won't fire Bill in the normal way. They will allow him to step down and retire after the season. Besides if the Pats keep losing then they could have a shot at getting Caleb Williams in next year's draft.

 

But when you listen to Boston sports talk - they can't stomach the thought of tanking. Despite their record the past three years - they are still stuck in the mystique of Brady's New England Patriots.

 

"You can't bail on the season - you have to get to a respectable 8 wins or so..." 

 

Well, if that's the case - enjoy your mediocre draft positioning - ala Buffalo prior to McDermott.

 

[HappyDays]

One major issue I have with McDermott is his inability to have the team prepared for ugly wins. That is what separates the #1 seed from everyone else. So far we've gotten drawn into two ugly games against inferior opponents and could not find a way to get it done in either case. Blowing out teams is fun but not sustainable. How are we going to ever make it to the Super Bowl if we can't eke some ugly wins from time to time? It's a legitimate concern.

 

Against the Jets, we had a dumb 2nd and 15 shotgun run in OT and then the punt team blew it. Against the Jags when the offense was finally figuring it out, the defense gave up a 50 yard TD run. The final hook and ladder play was a mess with zero chance of working. I feel like we see too many of these momentum swing plays that turn 50/50 games against us under this coaching staff. It may be the one thing that prevents us from ever winning a championship under this regime.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by HappyDays

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

One major issue I have with McDermott is his inability to have the team prepared for ugly wins. That is what separates the #1 seed from everyone else. So far we've gotten drawn into two ugly games against inferior opponents and could not find a way to get it done in either case. Blowing out teams is fun but not sustainable. How are we going to ever make it to the Super Bowl if we can't eke some ugly wins from time to time? It's a legitimate concern.

 

Against the Jets, we had a dumb 2nd and 15 shotgun run in OT and then the punt team blew it. Against the Jags when the offense was finally figuring it out, the defense gave up a 50 yard TD run. The final hook and ladder play was a mess with zero chance of working. I feel like we see too many of these momentum swing plays that turn 50/50 games against us under this coaching staff. It may be the one thing that prevents us from ever winning a champion under this regime.

 

Agreed - and this happens FAR too often.

 

We have the talent - it's coaching.

 

 

 

 

[gobills1212]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:43 PM, Mark92 said:

The way this offense can go from running like a sports car to a dump truck in 7 days is baffling.  At some point the roller coaster needs to stop.  We have all seen how great this team can be.  We only get so many chances with Allen at the helm.  Beane has to be at least pondering the idea of coaching being the issue.  Also is there an issue with this teams conditioning?  Lots of injuries the past 2-3 years. 

Hopefully your posting privileges are on the hot seat after a stinker like this. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

One major issue I have with McDermott is his inability to have the team prepared for ugly wins. That is what separates the #1 seed from everyone else. So far we've gotten drawn into two ugly games against inferior opponents and could not find a way to get it done in either case. Blowing out teams is fun but not sustainable. How are we going to ever make it to the Super Bowl if we can't eke some ugly wins from time to time? It's a legitimate concern.

 

Against the Jets, we had a dumb 2nd and 15 shotgun run in OT and then the punt team blew it. Against the Jags when the offense was finally figuring it out, the defense gave up a 50 yard TD run. The final hook and ladder play was a mess with zero chance of working. I feel like we see too many of these momentum swing plays that turn 50/50 games against us under this coaching staff. It may be the one thing that prevents us from ever winning a championship under this regime.

 

it's a fair point

 

look at how the Chiefs were able to scratch out a win vs Jags

[Codyny13]

Jesus christ

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

That’s just not my true. People forget Brady was average for the first few years and at least 2 SB.. I will agree he was bad at times but come on getting Moss for a 4th and Welker for a 2nd and 7th was great GM moves…heck even now his drafting of D players isn’t terrible.. but on O it’s beyond bad.

 

It is true.  Don't forget that Bledsoe is one of the absolute worst playoff QBs of all time.  Brady was the anti-Bledsoe in that way. 

 

Also, BB's defenses were much better back then.  His defenses were pretty solid until around 2010 when they started getting very inconsistent and somewhat dicey. 

 

Also, imagine what it's like to play 6 games every season with the likes of the QBs that we, the Jets, and Fins had for 20 years.  Honestly, not a ringer in the bunch.  

 

 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

One major issue I have with McDermott is his inability to have the team prepared for ugly wins. That is what separates the #1 seed from everyone else. So far we've gotten drawn into two ugly games against inferior opponents and could not find a way to get it done in either case. Blowing out teams is fun but not sustainable. How are we going to ever make it to the Super Bowl if we can't eke some ugly wins from time to time? It's a legitimate concern.

 

Against the Jets, we had a dumb 2nd and 15 shotgun run in OT and then the punt team blew it. Against the Jags when the offense was finally figuring it out, the defense gave up a 50 yard TD run. The final hook and ladder play was a mess with zero chance of working. I feel like we see too many of these momentum swing plays that turn 50/50 games against us under this coaching staff. It may be the one thing that prevents us from ever winning a championship under this regime.

 

This. These are the games when coaching shows up. If it’s a close game, we lose usually. If the team is tough, we usually lose. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

Agreed - and this happens FAR too often.

 

We have the talent - it's coaching.

 

It's only going to get worse.  

 

McD seems to have thrown his hands up re: any impact on the offense or helping Dorsey out.  I'm not even sure he's capable. 

 

Defensively, the Jags seemed to have been the first team to have figured McD's D schemes out.  It typically takes about that, 5 or 6 games before the better HCs and coordinators figure new Ds & Os out.  That appears to be the case here.  

 

Should be interesting going forward.  

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

It is true.  Don't forget that Bledsoe is one of the absolute worst playoff QBs of all time.  Brady was the anti-Bledsoe in that way. 

 

Also, BB's defenses were much better back then.  His defenses were pretty solid until around 2010 when they started getting very inconsistent and somewhat dicey. 

 

Also, imagine what it's like to play 6 games every season with the likes of the QBs that we, the Jets, and Fins had for 20 years.  Honestly, not a ringer in the bunch.  

 

 

Bledsoe made the SB within his first 3 years, and the team had a chance to win if Tuna doesn’t kick it away to lose the game. After that it’s kind of a blur to me.. but the team regressed every year after that with him at QB.. Also it isn’t fair to compare anyone to Brady who was perhaps the most clutch QB in NFL history. (I said perhaps which mean maybe  lol) I mean even Patrick Mahomes has a losing record against him.. 

[PBF81]

40 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Bledsoe made the SB within his first 3 years, and the team had a chance to win if Tuna doesn’t kick it away to lose the game. After that it’s kind of a blur to me.. but the team regressed every year after that with him at QB.. Also it isn’t fair to compare anyone to Brady who was perhaps the most clutch QB in NFL history. (I said perhaps which mean maybe  lol) I mean even Patrick Mahomes has a losing record against him.. 

 

Bledsoe was awful in the playoffs, the Pats made the SB despite him.  

 

Have you looked at his playoff performances?  His highest rated playoff game, of 6 starts, was 72.3.  

 

His totals in the three playoff games in the season that you mention were 59 of 105, for 595 Yards, 3 TDs, 7 INTs for an overall passer rating in those playoffs of 54.3.  

 

Here's the link to his playoff performances;  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BledDr00/gamelog/post/ 

 

He had 4 INTs in that Super Bowl, I think three drives ended on sacks and what, five more drives ending on incompletions?  

 

I made a ton of money in that game wagering all of my Pats fan sucker friends.  LOL  

 

 

[Eastport bills]

Injuries are as much a part of football now with the speed.and strength training making these players heat seeking 250lb projectiles. Sean coaches the defense and it’s been good enough to win every game so far. The problem against the Jets was the forced throws by Josh and losing the turnover battle. Hard to overcome.  The Jags game looked like our OC forget how to call plays in the NFL,after his best game ever against Miami. He’s not getting the ball to anyone other than Diggs or Davis. The running game was nonexistent and the TEs, and slot receivers are afterthoughts. He’s a young OC and seems unsure how to use personnel. Most games he’s sufficient, but he’s a work in progress.

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

One major issue I have with McDermott is his inability to have the team prepared for ugly wins. That is what separates the #1 seed from everyone else. So far we've gotten drawn into two ugly games against inferior opponents and could not find a way to get it done in either case. Blowing out teams is fun but not sustainable. How are we going to ever make it to the Super Bowl if we can't eke some ugly wins from time to time? It's a legitimate concern.

 

Against the Jets, we had a dumb 2nd and 15 shotgun run in OT and then the punt team blew it. Against the Jags when the offense was finally figuring it out, the defense gave up a 50 yard TD run. The final hook and ladder play was a mess with zero chance of working. I feel like we see too many of these momentum swing plays that turn 50/50 games against us under this coaching staff. It may be the one thing that prevents us from ever winning a championship under this regime.

 

Last year the team won a lot of ugly close games. They were very resilient. I think the team put this narrative to bed last year. 

 

[BananaB]

Team is just standing still with McD. There is just to much carryover every year and we ain’t improving. We’re getting old and the young guys aren’t developing at a fast enough pace. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by BananaB

[John from Riverside]

I’m just thankful that the bills are smarter than most of you
 

You guys wouldn’t be ***** talking if our coaching staff got canned, and we actually started regressing

[uticaclub]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m just thankful that the bills are smarter than most of you
 

You guys wouldn’t be ***** talking if our coaching staff got canned, and we actually started regressing

But we are regressing now, without firing the staff

[BananaB]

26 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

But we are regressing now, without firing the staff

Basically the team has improved as Josh has improved and they keep asking him to do more

[Doc Brown]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

One major issue I have with McDermott is his inability to have the team prepared for ugly wins. That is what separates the #1 seed from everyone else. So far we've gotten drawn into two ugly games against inferior opponents and could not find a way to get it done in either case. Blowing out teams is fun but not sustainable. How are we going to ever make it to the Super Bowl if we can't eke some ugly wins from time to time? It's a legitimate concern.

 

Against the Jets, we had a dumb 2nd and 15 shotgun run in OT and then the punt team blew it. Against the Jags when the offense was finally figuring it out, the defense gave up a 50 yard TD run. The final hook and ladder play was a mess with zero chance of working. I feel like we see too many of these momentum swing plays that turn 50/50 games against us under this coaching staff. It may be the one thing that prevents us from ever winning a championship under this regime.

 

Maybe this year but we've hard our share of "ugly" wins under McDermott in the past.  Last year I'd argue we won ugly against the Ravens, Jets (home), Browns, Lions, and Patriots (home) last year.  All inferior opponents in pretty ugly games.  As far as the playoffs go, I consider our wins against Baltimore in 2020 and the Fish last year ugly wins against inferior opponents.  Having said that, it's something teams like the Chiefs, Eagles, and 49ers are better at doing on a consistent basis.

[John from Riverside]

51 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

But we are regressing now, without firing the staff

We are?

 

The team is both top five in offiense and Defense

 

Running game is improved

 

Offensive line is better

 

Our pass rush is insane

 

Did you think we were going to win every game?

[Bill from NYC]

17 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's amazing how some people still think NFL front offices run the same or similarly where the HC reports to the GM who reports to the owner.  If that were the case, ownership would have hired the GM first who would have in turn hired the HC.  

 

At the end of 2016, TPegs had to have watched a dispute between GM and HC played out in the press during a mediocre season and wanted better.  In walks McD who gets hired because A) he was more organized that Rex ever would have been and B) represented the sole voice in the organization to prevent the internecine battles.  Yet, that last issue only gets addressed if the new HC controls the football side of the house with support from a personnel department.  And that's been the case since Day 1.  

 

Buffalo is at a point now where McD's vision is stale.  He can't let go of preferring the defensive side even with a franchise QB.  Sure, he'll go in with a 1st round offensive skill position pick, but then spend in UFA to keep his DL rotation intact as they throw token money toward low-end WR types.  It's no guarantee to hire an offensive-based coach, but you don't want to end up with a stubborn defensive one who thinks he's gotta be top-5 overall on their preferred side.     

 

 

 

Thank you! McDermott was responsible for Beane getting hired in the first place. He was there first; do people think that Beane was hired in a vacuum? 

 

The thing is, I think that McDermott is a pretty good coach. That is not my issue. I just think that he has far too much power on the personnel side, especially wrt the draft. His fingerprints are all over those easrly first round picks and trade-ups for a MLB and a corner. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Bill from NYC

[Buckets]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:57 PM, Southern_Bills said:

If you don't think jetlag etc had an effect on today you are crazy.

 

On top of that,  McD is the HC/DC, that's alot to keep up with. He has to give Dorsey freedom with the offense just to keep up.

 

If anything Dorsey is on the hot seat, which I wouldn't be in board with after one bad game.

Trouble is he's only had one really good game this year.

On 10/8/2023 at 8:16 PM, Mark92 said:

Did you read the part where I said the past 2-3 years?  How about you get a clue.  Everyone is welcome to their opinions but blatantly making up "facts" is pathetic. 

Again, where are you getting your information?

[Buckets]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:29 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

They wanted Levy fired. They wanted to bench Kelly for Frank Reich. They wanted to draft Johnny Manziel. 

 

The logic was, since there is no bye before or after, to maintain the team routine during the week.

So you decide to change the routine two days before the game?

[Gregg]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

We are?

 

The team is both top five in offiense and Defense

 

Running game is improved

 

Offensive line is better

 

Our pass rush is insane

 

Did you think we were going to win every game?

 

McDermott is a very good regular season coach. Nobody would argue that. The Bills have been a good regular season team for a while now. It's the playoff failures that are getting old. I won't count the Jacksonville game because that Bills team with Tyrod wasn't very good, and fans were just happy to end the streak. But blowing a huge lead at Houston a few years back in the WC game. Getting blown out by the Chiefs in the AFC Championship game. 13 seconds which is a fire able offense in my opinion. Barely beating a Dolphins team at home in the playoffs when they are playing a scrub at QB. Getting blown out at home vs the Bengals. 

 

If you think the Bills can't move on from McDermott, just remember the Eagles decided to move on from Andy Reid and he took them to the NFCCG a few times. So, it can happen. The Eagles eventually won a Super Bowl after Reid left. 

[Gregg]

8 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

They need different eyes on Allen. McDermott aint that guy and Dorsey is just a friend. 

 

 

 

Lions OC Ben Johnson would be an interesting choice if the Bills did in fact move on from McDermott. For the record I don't think McDermott is going anywhere.

[SoTier]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:43 PM, Mark92 said:

The way this offense can go from running like a sports car to a dump truck in 7 days is baffling.  At some point the roller coaster needs to stop.  We have all seen how great this team can be.  We only get so many chances with Allen at the helm.  Beane has to be at least pondering the idea of coaching being the issue.  Also is there an issue with this teams conditioning?  Lots of injuries the past 2-3 years. 

 

I couldn't decide if this gem deserved a vomit, an eyeroll or a haha, so I did all three:  🤮   🙄  🤣

 

[Low Positive]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We are?

 

The team is both top five in offiense and Defense

 

Running game is improved

 

Offensive line is better

 

Our pass rush is insane

 

Did you think we were going to win every game?

But we lost a game and that means that we'll never win another one. Those are the TBD rules. Get with the program.

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Maybe this year but we've hard our share of "ugly" wins under McDermott in the past.  Last year I'd argue we won ugly against the Ravens, Jets (home), Browns, Lions, and Patriots (home) last year.  All inferior opponents in pretty ugly games.  As far as the playoffs go, I consider our wins against Baltimore in 2020 and the Fish last year ugly wins against inferior opponents.  Having said that, it's something teams like the Chiefs, Eagles, and 49ers are better at doing on a consistent basis.

 

The Chiefs are the KING of ugly wins. It's why they've been the #1 seed so often in recent years, they're not always dominant but they always find a way. The two teams we've lost to this year, the Chiefs had ugly wins against both of them. Mahomes was equal or worse than Allen in those games and they have less talent across the board on both sides of the ball compared to us IMO, but they still found a way to win them. It's almost uncanny how often they win games like that. And to me that represents a coaching gap between us and them.

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs are the KING of ugly wins. It's why they've been the #1 seed so often in recent years, they're not always dominant but they always find a way. The two teams we've lost to this year, the Chiefs had ugly wins against both of them. Mahomes was equal or worse than Allen in those games and they have less talent across the board on both sides of the ball compared to us IMO, but they still found a way to win them. It's almost uncanny how often they win games like that. And to me that represents a coaching gap between us and them.

 

 

Here's an example of what I mean - imagine the Chiefs are down 2 scores in the 4th quarter. Mahomes leads a great TD drive and with 4 minutes left they kick off to the Jaguars. Does anyone here think that Jaguars drive ends with a 35 yard TD run putting the game out of reach? No chance. I guarantee the Chiefs get the ball back with plenty of time and end up pulling out the win, I've seen it a dozen times over the last few years. Why does our team always seem to fall apart in those critical moments?

[Low Positive]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs are the KING of ugly wins. It's why they've been the #1 seed so often in recent years, they're not always dominant but they always find a way. The two teams we've lost to this year, the Chiefs had ugly wins against both of them. Mahomes was equal or worse than Allen in those games and they have less talent across the board on both sides of the ball compared to us IMO, but they still found a way to win them. It's almost uncanny how often they win games like that. And to me that represents a coaching gap between us and them.

 

There is no way that Mahomes punts the ball back to the Jets in OT like the Bills did. Mahomes can be bad for the whole game, but he'll come through if you keep it to a drive at the end. Burrow can come up small in big moments too. Everyone here in Cincinnati likes to complain about the refs in the AFC CG, but Burrow got the ball with 2:00 left in a tie game and they punted it back to Mahomes. Everyone watching knew what the outcome would be. Same thing with 13 seconds. Yeah, it was a cluster and a comedy of errors, but Mahomes still had to execute those three plays that led to the tying FG. 

 

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

There is no way that Mahomes punts the ball back to the Jets in OT like the Bills did.

 

1st and 10 - false start

1st and 15 - Knox fails to reel in a vey catchable pass

2nd and 15 - shotgun draw for no gain

 

No one is converting every 3rd and 15. That's crazy. The truth is Mahomes would not be put in that situation because his coaches wouldn't allow it.

 

And I'm not excusing Allen's performance against the Jets, he royally sucked. But we had the ball first in OT, and a stupid play call plus poor fundamentals on special teams ended up killing our one chance to get an ugly win. It's a pattern. We have never won a game in OT under McDermott.

[kota]

if the Bills are consistently going to the playoffs year after year you will not see a coaching change.  

[stuvian]

Europe football is like Thursday night football in its preseason quality. So no, I won't back the fire Clappy thread of the week 

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We are?

 

The team is both top five in offiense and Defense

 

Running game is improved

 

Offensive line is better

 

Our pass rush is insane

 

Did you think we were going to win every game?

 

Don't confuse the people with facts!

 

5 hours ago, Gregg said:

If you think the Bills can't move on from McDermott, just remember the Eagles decided to move on from Andy Reid and he took them to the NFCCG a few times. So, it can happen. The Eagles eventually won a Super Bowl after Reid left. 

 

LOL.   If EVER there was a perfect example of how it's better for a team to be lucky than good, it's the Eagles Super Bowl win, starting with giving control of personnel to Howie Roseman after they fired Chip Kelly in 2015.    All the "heroes" of that Super Bowl season didn't age particularly well.  Carson Wentz regressed from where he was in 2017.  Nick Foles just fell back to his level as a career backup QB.  Neither Doug Pedersen nor Frank Reich turned out to be the geniuses they appeared to be in February, 2018. 

 

BTW, before the Reid won his first SB, the rap on him was that he couldn't win big games, especially in the playoffs.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by SoTier

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs are the KING of ugly wins. It's why they've been the #1 seed so often in recent years, they're not always dominant but they always find a way. The two teams we've lost to this year, the Chiefs had ugly wins against both of them. Mahomes was equal or worse than Allen in those games and they have less talent across the board on both sides of the ball compared to us IMO, but they still found a way to win them. It's almost uncanny how often they win games like that. And to me that represents a coaching gap between us and them.

 

Good post. 
 

But it also seems the Chiefs get a surprising number of favorable officiating calls, so maybe not entirely a coaching gap. 

[PromoTheRobot]

13 hours ago, Buckets said:

So you decide to change the routine two days before the game?

 

They couldn't treat this like a typical road game and fly out Saturday. So yeah I guess they really didn't follow routine. Because they couldn't.

[RiotAct]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

we had the ball first in OT, and a stupid play call plus poor fundamentals on special teams ended up killing our one chance to get an ugly win. It's a pattern. We have never won a game in OT under McDermott.

Colts 2017 (the snow game)

[gobills1212]

8 hours ago, NUT said:

He should be on the hot seat, yes.

I feel like this is the OP under an alt handle. Gotta be. The odds of this are that of someone who wins the lotto 2x. If thats not the case, i feel like you two need to go have a beer. We will let you know how the season ends!