All I Need is Hope Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) Does anyone have any actual intel (not opinions) for why Elam is pushed down the depth chart and now behind 6th and 7th round CB's? Is it mental, adjusting to new techniques, schemes, ???. McDermott and crew have typically been really good at getting the best out of DB's. This one's a head scratcher. Edited October 3, 2023 by All I Need is Hope 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) I’m still puzzled. He had very important plays at KC and vs MIA in the wildcard it would sure be nice if he flipped a switch and became Pat Surtain Edited October 3, 2023 by Warriorspikes51 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Is it really that difficult to see Dane Jackson and Christian Benford are good players? 4 1 10 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 minute ago, All I Need is Hope said: Does anyone have any actual intel (not opinions) for why Elam is pushed down the depth chart and now behind 6th and 7th round CB's? Is it mental, adjusting to new techniques, schemes, ???. McDermott and crew have typically been really good at getting the best out of DB's. This one's a head scratcher. Point may be proven as McDermott seems to have gotten the best out of Benford and Jackson...to the point where we have 4 solid CB options. Let's see what Elam does with the opportunity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said: Is it really that difficult to see Dane Jackson and Christian Benford are good players? props to Dane. He had a big hit immediately after coming in 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All I Need is Hope Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Point may be proven as McDermott seems to have gotten the best out of Benford and Jackson...to the point where we have 4 solid CB options. Let's see what Elam does with the opportunity Makes it even more puzzling to understand why they can't get top end production out of someone with Elam's elite athletic traits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Let me add the only issues we heard about were in practice. He was grabbing a little too much. But other than that the kid can play. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Is it really that difficult to see Dane Jackson and Christian Benford are good players? I think it also has to do with Elam though. Lot of negative innuendo in the comments by McDermott about Elam. Even today, he basically was like, “we’ll see” about Elam. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 The reason he’s been pushed down the depth chart: Dane is currently a better zone CB for McDs system. 3 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Benford’s coverage metrics have been elite. Tre was solid. We know the staff loves Dane Jackson, and if he could ever develop any semblance of ball skills, he’d be a coveted corner given his run defense and sticky coverage. It’s not out of the realm of possibilities that Elam has simply been beat out by 3 good players. The bright side is that Elam has the highest ceiling, traits-wise, of anyone in this secondary, even before Tre went down. The downside is that, even with his above average performances in big moments last year, the staff doesn’t trust him yet. He’s one of the more talented players on this defense, but on a unit that requires you to be a cog, he’s used to going man up and it seems the staff is struggling to coach that out of him. 3 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: I think it also has to do with Elam though. Lot of negative innuendo in the comments by McDermott about Elam. Even today, he basically was like, “we’ll see” about Elam. I don’t know. Thats trying to read into things. On the field he’s been more than fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 This is begging for a 3rd thread… 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 minute ago, NewEra said: The reason he’s been pushed down the depth chart: Dane is currently a better zone CB for McDs system. Maybe McD could’ve whispered to BBB in the war room he wasn’t a fit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Really hope he takes advantage of this massive opportunity. I think he will. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, All I Need is Hope said: Makes it even more puzzling to understand why they can't get top end production out of someone with Elam's elite athletic traits Not really. In this defense physical traits at the CB position isn't a big deal. This defense is about being in the right spot at the right time and doing your 1/11th. Making the right reads. Elam had further to come than Benford and Jackson. More ground to cover. He'll have his opportunity to show how far he's come. At the very least we should see if his opportunity grows and we should have a much better idea of how he fits in the coming weeks. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I don’t know. Thats trying to read into things. On the field he’s been more than fine. McDermott is definitely weird about Elam. His answers whenever asked about Kaiir come across like he’s beyond annoyed to have to talk about him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 minute ago, SCBills said: McDermott is definitely weird about Elam. His answers whenever asked about Kaiir come across like he’s beyond annoyed to have to talk about him. I feel that also. I’ve mentioned it seems like he wanted to draft someone else. We’ll never know. Just a wild guess. At worst he’s been even with Benford. Typically the tie goes to the 1st rounder. Elam seems to have a great attitude about it though. Never hear him complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Im glad we have Elam, and dont care why he was sitting out! 4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, SCBills said: McDermott is definitely weird about Elam. His answers whenever asked about Kaiir come across like he’s beyond annoyed to have to talk about him. I'm hoping the annoyance is just due to "what do you want me to say he's not practicing as well as the other guys..." But idk 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 30 minutes ago, All I Need is Hope said: Does anyone have any actual intel (not opinions) for why Elam is pushed down the depth chart and now behind 6th and 7th round CB's? Is it mental, adjusting to new techniques, schemes, ???. McDermott and crew have typically been really good at getting the best out of DB's. This one's a head scratcher. I think Elam is likely “fine”. I don’t think he’s a bust. Probably “meh”. Jackson struggled as the year went on and everybody on defense went down, but when Tre went down Dane played really well. And by the time we hit the playoffs was better than Levi. Through the first 5 or so games of last season DJ was something like top 5 in passer rating when targeted. He’s struggled but he can ball too. All that said Benford beat him out in a close battle. And apparently Elam wasn’t too far behind. I think it’s a factor of having an all-pro on one side and and 2 pretty goods on the other. Pair that with minimal game experience, being strongest at the defenses least used skill set, and a lack of versatility compared to the guys in front of him, he finds himself the odd man out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 27 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Is it really that difficult to see Dane Jackson and Christian Benford are good players? Well, we're about to find out as Calvin Ridley and Christian Kirk will be their responsibilities. Maybe we might get Poyer back...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 35 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Is it really that difficult to see Dane Jackson and Christian Benford are good players? Or maybe better in run support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 24 minutes ago, NewEra said: The reason he’s been pushed down the depth chart: Dane is currently a better zone CB for McDs system. Why can’t anyone see this? Who cares if Elam was a first rounder? He hasn’t earned it yet and it should never be given to him based off is draft position. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, whorlnut said: Why can’t anyone see this? Who cares if Elam was a first rounder? He hasn’t earned it yet and it should never be given to him based off is draft position. I think most people understand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 OP, have you gotten enough "facts" yet? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I mean at this point, it doesn’t matter DaneJackson will probably start over him but he’s going to get time 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) He’s more man CB than a zone CB he doesn’t do special teams Edited October 3, 2023 by djp14150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Bottomline is Tre works extremely hard and is smarter (High School Valedictorian). Elam works harder but is likely not as smart as Tre. So you have two 1st round corners one who is one of the smartest in the NFL and is the hardest worker. That is a tough bar to clear if you are Elam. As for Benford and Jackson it is my opinion that the Bills CB 2 is likely more a position of dealing with WR 2 and that is less demanding athletically. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Better get over them quick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 7 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said: OP, have you gotten enough "facts" yet? I'm glad it's not just me.... everyone here seems as confused as I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I think the analytics department armed with irrefutable data demanded changes from mcbeane after the season. Part of the changes were limit the drops so they targeted a journeyman 3 and 4 who do not drop. Another part of the changes were limiting penalties especially chunk yardage PI. That’s where Elam got the axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 43 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: I think the analytics department armed with irrefutable data demanded changes from mcbeane after the season. Part of the changes were limit the drops so they targeted a journeyman 3 and 4 who do not drop. Another part of the changes were limiting penalties especially chunk yardage PI. That’s where Elam got the axe. Buffalo Bills Analytics Department: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 32 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Buffalo Bills Analytics Department: 38-10, 37-3, 48-20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent Hulka Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 My biggest takeaway is that whoever the college scout on Beane's staff is that recommended Elam as their 1st Round pick, he should never again be involved with picking that high of a selection. Honestly, some of the Bills scouts suck at their job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Huge fan of 47. Hopefully the benching put a fire in his belly and we see it when he comes back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 10 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Is it really that difficult to see Dane Jackson and Christian Benford are good players? I agree with this, but it isn't an answer. Elam has, in all probability, some better physical skills than Jackson and Benford. That's why he was a high pick. So, what is it that makes him so clearly worse at the job than the three who are ahead of him? The OP asked for actual information, not opinion, but there is no actual information. McDermott didn't hold a press conference to explain why Elam isn't active. We're about to find out. When he wasn't active, there wasn't much pressure on Elam to improve. But if he goes active, he's going to have 42 teammates telling him he needs to make the plays. Frankly, I'm expecting him to rise to the challenge. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) I really think its just a numbers thing and is more a reflection of how deep the Bills are at corner. White, Benford, Jackson are better for this defense, he is on the team and will now get a jersey. The only issue I have seen is that he is a little too physical and draws too many penalties. Or at least the staff fears that. Edited October 3, 2023 by Matt_In_NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 normally people root for the underdogs like Benford and Jackson, yet here we are chomping the bite for the blue chip. in this case the only true concern i have is that we didn't get Elam active enough to have him get his feet underneath him. however, we have a great stretch where he can do that heading into a daunting 4 week stretch of @cin, @kc, dal, @san diego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) It's pretty clear from interviews that Elam gets lost in zone coverages and just doesn't have that intuition for where he needs to be and move to. He's fine in man coverage and has shown that. Beane's comments that they wish it was just a work ethic thing allude to the fact that something isnt happening right mentally when he is playing our system. Hopefully he can figure it out - he's young. But when you watch any film breakdown it's clear how important it is in our system (and any system) to be able to communicate and leverage yourself properly every play. These things aren't easy Edited October 3, 2023 by arcane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I just think McDermott doesn't trust Elam. It has to be the mental part because he physically has it. You saw how precise the Bills defense is from what we saw on the Dolphins game review. Elam probably just isn't in the right spot or gets easily confused or bites on play fakes....something mentally is keeping him off the field. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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