[Fish Forum]: The Bills Are Overrated & They Will Be Exposed on Sunday

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills can and usually do beat them in Miami.  If not for the ridiculous scheduling of an early-season game in Miami after the Bills came off a Monday night game, they would be 10-1 against Miami (and that 1 loss was because of Charles "feet of" Clay dropping the game-winning TD) with Josh.

Dolphins need a full defensive rebuild to compete with buffalo…just a terrible matchup for them.  Their defense is built pretty much the complete opposite way of what it should be and their one advantage of having a bunch of good pass rushers has been pretty much neutralized by the bills oline improvements and josh being mobile 

 

on an individual game basis anything can happen of course, but in a big sample size Miami is gonna lose a lot more than they win against us.  They are just allergic to picking up LBers that can hold up in pass coverage 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s crazy because even the game we lost against them last year we moved the ball with ease and it was pretty flukey that we didn’t score more points. They really haven’t made josh look even mediocre a single time. 

 

That other loss his rookie year he had a couple turnovers but went off for 135 rushing yards and 221 passing yards 

That is why Father’s Day is always such a big day for Josh down in Miami. 

[Ralonzo]

A few pundits and twatters and even finheaven posters are coming around to what we already knew about Tua.

 

I expect more to join our ranks as DC's get their hands on today's film.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Ralonzo

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

A few pundits and twatters and even finheaven posters are coming around to what we already knew about Tua.

 

I expect more to join our ranks as DC's get their hands on today's film.

It's a yearly occurrence.

[Dan Darragh]

3 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

what we already knew about Tua.

Good take.

[Ralonzo]

Thanks. Just to expound on it, almost the entirety of the modern NFL runs route trees that sight-adjust based on the leverage relative to the defender. QBs succeed or fail in the NFL by their ability to process and correct for those adjustments. What is "revolutionary" about Miami's offense is that it doesn't use those concepts as much as a timing scheme where the ball arrives at a window along with the receiver, or if can scheme a guy to be Alabama-open. Tua can be effective if either/both of those things happen because he's accurate short & intermediate and can hoist it far enough (usually) if a guy is runnnig free by 5 yards. But, if opponents start showing up in those windows and/or guys aren't Alabama-open, it looks more like yesterday's 2nd half.

 

I'll give credit though, the intermediate throw to Mostert on the wheel route down the right sideline was perfectly placed. Two feet shorter or deeper and it's defended or picked.

[muppy]

as a PS: to the fins forum the Bills WERE exposed..as one of the NFL's most dominant teams. PUNTO.

 

It's not like me to dance on anyones grave but in this case I'll make an exception 

 

ratta tatt tattt tattttt you were soooo SQUISHED yesterday 🙂 the afterglow lingers.

 

GREAT WIN! The Bills 12th Man showed up in Force as I knew they would...Im PROUD today!!!!!!

[mannc]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills can and usually do beat them in Miami.  If not for the ridiculous scheduling of an early-season game in Miami after the Bills came off a Monday night game, they would be 10-1 against Miami (and that 1 loss was because of Charles "feet of" Clay dropping the game-winning TD) with Josh.

Miami has zero home field advantage after September.  I expect at least 35 percent Bills fans at the December game in Miami. I think the Bills’ players like going down there that time of year, as well.  Gives them a break from the cold.

[DrDawkinstein]

40 minutes ago, mannc said:

Miami has zero home field advantage after September.  I expect at least 35 percent Bills fans at the December game in Miami. I think the Bills’ players like going down there that time of year, as well.  Gives them a break from the cold.

 

I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of Teal in Highmark yesterday. Especially after Green Bay had to issue a statement about the number of Lions fans at Lambeau last week.

 

Good time to travel to Buffalo, the Dolphins were hyped, and yet it looked to have less Miami fans than even past years when the Dolphins stunk.

 

That said, I want Bills fans to PACK THAT STADIUM in January.

[JohnNord]

These Miami fans got caught up in the media promoting the offense using words like “historic,” “unstoppable,” and “indefensible.”  These were gross exaggerations.     

 

Scoring 70 points is quite an accomplishment but the hype led you to believe that this type of offensive explosion would happen every week.   

I’ve seen a lot of Miami fans down on the team after the loss.  The bottom line is they are still a pretty good team - especially offensively and that should be in contention for playoffs, maybe the division.   The defense is kind of a mess.   I don’t think Fangio has all the right players he wants to run his scheme.   But you have to think they’ll get at least a little better

 

[SoTier]

Here's a Fish fan's (DZimmer000) take on the game to enjoy:

 

Quote

Absolutely embarrassing this week. I don’t want to hear about us being down our starting center and starting safety. We were embarrassed all the way up and down the roster. Plain and simple… The Bills are the better football team. That is a fact and it is indisputable. On to the grades:

QB — D + : Tua was not good today. Period. Admittedly, the OL being as bad as they were didn’t help. The Bills defense was great. They timed their blitzes based on our pre snap motion. Brilliant. Tua and the offense had no answers. The only reason this wan’t an F is because Tua was the victim of bad play calling and a horrible offensive line today

RB’s — D + : The reason this isn’t a F is because of Achane. Ladies and gentlemen, he is our starter from here on out. Mostert was below average and fumbled twice. While Buffalo only recovered 1, they both cost us.

TE’s — D - : Smythe had a few nice receptions today. Hill with the false start on a third down hurt us. Overall…..An underwhelming game from this unit.

WR’s — C - : This is the best unit on the team today. They were open enough….Tua just didn’t have the time to see them. Not the best game from these guys….But not the worst either.

OL — F : Awful showing by this unit. Eichenberg should be cut today. Period. He has been and is still awful. How he made the team is a complete mystery. Is anyone else tired of Armstead getting hurt? I’m just wondering when we can get out of his contract. Wynn and Hunt and Jackson even got tooled today. Embarrassing.

DL — F : No pressure on Allen. Can’t stop the run. Wilkins wants Aaron Donald money?? Not happening. Sieler was the only decent lineman today and even he was getting blown off the ball most of the day. Horrible day by these guys.

LB’s — F : Baker is comically bad. We should put him on the same bus out of town as Eichenberg. What’s amazing to me is that this group gets an F even with Van Ginkgo’s great day. You know your LB’s are bad when they get an F even with one of them landing 2 sacks and being all over the field. Disappointing to say the least.

DB’s — F : WTF was that?? Everyone on this unit was awful. Kohou might not ever recover from this beating. Even Holland was bad today. Horrendous.

ST’s — C : Average to decent day for these guys. They did their jobs as well as could be expected.

Coaching — F : McDaniel got schooled today. All of his motion was for nothing. The Bills showed the rest of the NFL that you just play fast and time your blitzes with the motion and it gets ugly fast for the Dolphins. As for Fangio….. So much for him being some defensive genius. He’s not. I’ve been saying it since the last preseason game….This defense is a liability. They cannot stop the run and cannot rush the passer. That’s a dangerous combination for our playoff hopes.

Conclusion: This was an ass whipping in Buffalo. We have 2 games in a row against mediocre teams coming up at home. We have a lot of work to do on a lot of deficiencies. It starts next week at home.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by SoTier

[LetzGoBuffalo]

On 9/30/2023 at 10:43 AM, Matt_In_NH said:

Says so right here

 

https://finheaven.com/threads/the-bills-are-overrated-they-will-be-exposed-on-sunday.380217/

 

I give this thread on finheaven 2 fins down

HIGHLY enjoyed reading their forum posts lol GO BILLS

[Matt_In_NH]

1 minute ago, LetzGoBuffalo said:

HIGHLY enjoyed reading their forum posts lol GO BILLS

It is so much fun....this place can get crazy but that forum has more traffic and the fanatical/emotional reactions are over the top.....its the best in the league as far as that is concerned.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

A few pundits and twatters and even finheaven posters are coming around to what we already knew about Tua.

 

I expect more to join our ranks as DC's get their hands on today's film.

 

The INT to Hyde was a perfect example of this.  He was going to that WR the entire time.  He tried to look him off on the first look towards the right, turned his head to to the left and just threw it.  Didn't read it to see if Hyde was there or not, he just threw it.

[ganesh]

19 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

These Miami fans got caught up in the media promoting the offense using words like “historic,” “unstoppable,” and “indefensible.”  These were gross exaggerations.     

 

Scoring 70 points is quite an accomplishment but the hype led you to believe that this type of offensive explosion would happen every week.   

I’ve seen a lot of Miami fans down on the team after the loss.  The bottom line is they are still a pretty good team - especially offensively and that should be in contention for playoffs, maybe the division.   The defense is kind of a mess.   I don’t think Fangio has all the right players he wants to run his scheme.   But you have to think they’ll get at least a little better

 

they did have 390 yards of offense and none of them were during garbage time.   Their offense is potent; it is just that the Bills offense was better on the given day

[Franco_92]

3 minutes ago, ganesh said:

they did have 390 yards of offense and none of them were during garbage time.   Their offense is potent; it is just that the Bills offense was better on the given day

They definitely had 2 long drives in garbage time

[hondo in seattle]

47 minutes ago, ganesh said:

they did have 390 yards of offense and none of them were during garbage time.   Their offense is potent; it is just that the Bills offense was better on the given day

 

This is true.  But our D made some big plays: 4th down stops and key takeaways. 

 

In other words, their O had some critical failures that our O didn't commit.  

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

Thanks. Just to expound on it, almost the entirety of the modern NFL runs route trees that sight-adjust based on the leverage relative to the defender. QBs succeed or fail in the NFL by their ability to process and correct for those adjustments. What is "revolutionary" about Miami's offense is that it doesn't use those concepts as much as a timing scheme where the ball arrives at a window along with the receiver, or if can scheme a guy to be Alabama-open. Tua can be effective if either/both of those things happen because he's accurate short & intermediate and can hoist it far enough (usually) if a guy is runnnig free by 5 yards. But, if opponents start showing up in those windows and/or guys aren't Alabama-open, it looks more like yesterday's 2nd half.

 

I'll give credit though, the intermediate throw to Mostert on the wheel route down the right sideline was perfectly placed. Two feet shorter or deeper and it's defended or picked.

Great stuff.  Thanks.  

 

This is a great explanation of why Tua still looks like a college quarterback.  He's deadly when everything goes right.

 

If you think about it, none of the great current QBs is successful because they play like that.  They are managing the pocket and finding a receiver, often on the second, third, or fourth read AND they have the arm to deliver the ball.  Tua's succeeding because he doesn't have to do that, yet, but the time is coming.   And when teams get fully on board about how to stop him, he will struggle.

 

But, as you say, many of his throws are absolute things of beauty.   Deadly accurate.  

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The INT to Hyde was a perfect example of this.  He was going to that WR the entire time.  He tried to look him off on the first look towards the right, turned his head to to the left and just threw it.  Didn't read it to see if Hyde was there or not, he just threw it.

 

The highlight they showed on NFLN highlighted the area in the field where the throw was going with a yellow circle just as the ball was snapped. I don't know if it's film study or what, but Bernard recognized where the route was going and moved to carry the receiver, which may have affected the timing/position of the receiver as the ball arrived at the spot where he wasn't - instead landing like a classic Tua soap bubble in Hyde's hands.

[Jeffbigalls]

They exposed buffalo alright, exposed them as being the best team in East and possibly the afc

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

Thanks. Just to expound on it, almost the entirety of the modern NFL runs route trees that sight-adjust based on the leverage relative to the defender. QBs succeed or fail in the NFL by their ability to process and correct for those adjustments. What is "revolutionary" about Miami's offense is that it doesn't use those concepts as much as a timing scheme where the ball arrives at a window along with the receiver, or if can scheme a guy to be Alabama-open. Tua can be effective if either/both of those things happen because he's accurate short & intermediate and can hoist it far enough (usually) if a guy is runnnig free by 5 yards. But, if opponents start showing up in those windows and/or guys aren't Alabama-open, it looks more like yesterday's 2nd half.

 

I'll give credit though, the intermediate throw to Mostert on the wheel route down the right sideline was perfectly placed. Two feet shorter or deeper and it's defended or picked.

Im wondering too how much we turned their revolutionary wrinkle into a detriment.  Looked to me like the Bills were using the motion as an offensive key to their defense.  So maybe we know were sending a creeper pressure but dont know whos dropping into coverage (probably based on which side the motion is on) and whos coming (probably based off of responsibilities on the back end, so dependent on who went into motion).  This type of defense would be killer cause while the defense will all know whats going on like normal (assuming rather heady players), the offense cant get a read cause the defense isnt declared til that final motion which is right before the ball is snapped.  Will be asking film geeks about that this week.      

[billsfan_34]

I enjoy checking other fan boards after a Bills W. This is pretty comical. Enjoy - Go Bills

 

https://finheaven.com/threads/zims-grades-for-the-game-week-4-edition.380260/

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by billsfan_34
More descriptive subject

[billsfan_34]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

Currently being discussed here:

 

 

 

Woops thanks - my bad - mods please close 😊

[DrDawkinstein]

50 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

The highlight they showed on NFLN highlighted the area in the field where the throw was going with a yellow circle just as the ball was snapped. I don't know if it's film study or what, but Bernard recognized where the route was going and moved to carry the receiver, which may have affected the timing/position of the receiver as the ball arrived at the spot where he wasn't - instead landing like a classic Tua soap bubble in Hyde's hands.

 

Love it. He's been carrying receivers deep downfield all year. Kid just gets it, and has the speed to do it.

 

Exactly the type of play we were waiting to see from that other guy. If you arent getting the picks yourself, at least get in the lane to make the QB overthrow.

 

Finally seeing it happen.

[TheBrownBear]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

they did have 390 yards of offense and none of them were during garbage time.   Their offense is potent; it is just that the Bills offense was better on the given day

Yes, their offense is potent and they will have better days, but they had 150 yards in the first two drives, and 120 yards (including the big Achane run) in the 4th quarter after we were up by 28 points.  I'd say those were garbage time yards.  It wasn't just our offense being better.  Our defense completely destroyed them for the majority of the game, certainly after those first two drives.

 

Edit: Also, just wanted to add that I had a lot of fun reading FinHeaven last night.  Lol.

Edited October 2, 2023 by TheBrownBear

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, TheBrownBear said:

Yes, their offense is potent and they will have better days, but they had 150 yards in the first two drives, and 120 yards (including the big Achane run) in the 4th quarter after we were up by 28 points.  I'd say those were garbage time yards.  It wasn't just our offense being better.  Our defense completely destroyed them for the majority of the game, certainly after those first two drives.

 

As a Dolphins fan said on their board "Tua is great from 20 yard line to 20 yard line". But then what...

 

He can get yards, but without those big, explosive plays, he cant get it done.

[Nephilim17]

If any one wants to summarize what's going on there or quote some especially delicious Fins fans' messages I would love to drink deeply of their humiliation and despair. But I don't want to go to their site myself. Thanks! 🍻

[SoTier]

25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Love it. He's been carrying receivers deep downfield all year. Kid just gets it, and has the speed to do it.

 

Exactly the type of play we were waiting to see from that other guy. If you arent getting the picks yourself, at least get in the lane to make the QB overthrow.

 

Finally seeing it happen.

 

Bernard is much more noticeable than Edmunds was, not only because he always seems to be around the ball, but also because he always seems to talking to/encouraging his teammates between and/or at the end of plays.

[Bobby Hooks]

I noticed today they’re saying when they get their injured players back it will be another story. Okay, well they weren’t saying that pre-game. They were going to stomp us as-is. 
 

What they seem to be forgetting is we got to Tua without Von. They get players back, but so do we (Von & Poyer). Outside of Tre, that one hurts. I’m hoping we can do something in that regard before the trade deadline. 
 

Also, maybe Elam will step up? Idk. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Bernard is much more noticeable than Edmunds was, not only because he always seems to be around the ball, but also because he always seems to talking to/encouraging his teammates between and/or at the end of plays.

 

And for 2 (maybe 3?) weeks in a row, they've cut to him on the sidelines, cutting it up with Diggs and Davis and Milano. Never saw that from the other guy.

 

Love seeing the youngster crossing over and bringing the entire team together.

[MJS]

42 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

As a Dolphins fan said on their board "Tua is great from 20 yard line to 20 yard line". But then what...

 

He can get yards, but without those big, explosive plays, he cant get it done.

If Tua wants to become a great QB, he needs to learn the mental aspects of reading a defense and going through his progressions. Anyone can be good when your first read is schemed wide open every play. Kudos to him for being accurate and decicive, but he got rattled when his first read wasn't available.

 

So far, he has shown to be a system QB. And he doesn't have the elite physical traits to fall back on, so I don't know how much farther he can progress. When Allen struggles to read a defense or gets rattled, he at least has elite physical traits to fall back on and can still make a great play.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

If Tua wants to become a great QB, he needs to learn the mental aspects of reading a defense and going through his progressions. Anyone can be good when your first read is schemed wide open every play. Kudos to him for being accurate and decicive, but he got rattled when his first read wasn't available.

 

So far, he has shown to be a system QB. And he doesn't have the elite physical traits to fall back on, so I don't know how much farther he can progress. When Allen struggles to read a defense or gets rattled, he at least has elite physical traits to fall back on and can still make a great play.

 

For the record, I am not a believer in Tua at all, and hope the Dolphins get stuck setting the QB market with him this offseason. 5 more years of wins for us.

[pocoboy]

46 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For the record, I am not a believer in Tua at all, and hope the Dolphins get stuck setting the QB market with him this offseason. 5 more years of wins for us.

 

We'll see, I think McDaniel got very ego-driven in this game. They did get the first 2 TD's on the ground, but from what I can tell on the Gamebook MIA was 18 passes out of 26 total plays in the first half. I think the one-dimensional nature hurt them, especially once McDermott nailed down how to thwart Tua's looks. When you want to show off your prowess as a playcaller, it's easy to go pass heavy. And at least at this point Tua isn't the type of QB that is going to excel in the possession passing game.

Edited October 2, 2023 by pocoboy

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, pocoboy said:

 

We'll see, I think McDaniel got very ego-driven in this game. They did get the first 2 TD's on the ground, but from what I can tell on the Gamebook MIA was 18 passes out of 26 total plays in the first half. I think the one-dimensional nature hurt them, especially once McDermott nailed down how to thwart Tua's looks.

 

I was surprised they abandoned the run as well. Especially considering those RBs can rip off big chunk gains that mimic a high-power passing game.

[billsfan_34]

5 hours ago, mannc said:

Miami has zero home field advantage after September.  I expect at least 35 percent Bills fans at the December game in Miami. I think the Bills’ players like going down there that time of year, as well.  Gives them a break from the cold.

After November - just sayin’ its still hot down there in October 😊

[Billsfan1972]

Two things....  Miami moved the ball, the Bills got the takeaways and last three possessions were TO's on downs.

 

Their fan site is garbage and no one is on there in any case.

 

Simple point is last nights KC/Jets game has 30 odd replies on the thread, vs. 900 here!!!!

[Alphadawg7]

I have to confess...I created an account over there this week and am s***ing on their team and giving them reality checks from the inside disguised as one of their own 🤣

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

I enjoy checking other fan boards after a Bills W. This is pretty comical. Enjoy - Go Bills

 

https://finheaven.com/threads/zims-grades-for-the-game-week-4-edition.380260/

 

 

A bit harsh for an offense that did score 20 points.

 

But at least they have one poster who's not delusional

[Matt_In_NH]

8 hours ago, Jeffbigalls said:

They exposed buffalo alright, exposed them as being the best team in East and possibly the NFL

FIFY

[billsfan_34]

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

A bit harsh for an offense that did score 20 points.

 

But at least they have one poster who's not delusional

Against a very tough defense. I think as the season goes on, things get tougher for the fins…their D is awful