Update: All -22 stuff Joe Marino Locked on Bills, Now Cover 1 w/ play breakdowns

[eball]

Ok so the real question is “how do you fix Josh?”  Obviously you aren’t going to bench him, but how do you get him to be a team player and not always try to be the hero?

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

9 hours ago, Success said:

JA is going to see all of this.  He'll see everything he passed up - all of the much easier plays that would have kept the chains moving.

 

We'll just have to see how it goes.  What else can we do? This can all be forgotten pretty quickly if we can get on a roll, and Allen gets back to looking like the guy who had us thinking he might be the best out there just a year & a half ago.

 

Thing that worries me is this was an issue last year as well. 

[boyst]

9 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is exactly what it looked like to me.

 

Unprofessional and immature.

 

Peoples’ livelihoods are at stake.  How is Josh gonna feel when his buddy the OC is canned because of him?  
 

Dude needs to GROW THE F UP already.

dion is fat

diggs is unhappy

...

josh is undisciplined.

 

 

but seriously, when people criticize him, including the uberdouche guy who has a lot of clicks for saying he doesn't focus enough - they're not wrong.

[Coach Tuesday]

Part of it I’m guessing is a failure to win the play before the snap, which may well come from a lack of film study, which may well come from a feeling that “I’m the best athlete in the world - I will figure out what the defense is doing and react to it on the fly, and if that doesn’t work, I’ll just jump over or run through it.”

 

Josh is a baby.

[BillsFan692]

9 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

There's a reason Diggs was disgusted with him.  And Diggs was right.  It's time to grow up.  It's not just playing like a knucklehead.    

Honestly this comment is laughable and I can't even take this seriously. It's about as funny as your initial comment about what you would do with your 27 year old son to 'set him straight'. Last year the bills had the 2nd best offense in the NFL and diggs was one of the leading NFL Receivers. Diggs is a diva and if anyone needs to grow up its him, but I think he has based on how he got b$!ch#d in the offseason.

Edited September 13, 2023 by BillsFan692

[eball]

I hope that when they are watching film they aren’t just coddling Josh and saying, “we can do this better” — I hope someone is in his face saying “what the (bleep) were you thinking Josh?”

 

He needs to understand that saying he just wants to win and he loves his teammates only goes so far if his actions on the field show he is just a selfish hero wannabe.

 

And I really can’t believe I am even writing that — would have never thought I’d see a performance like Monday night from him.

 

[mannc]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

He just has to calm the F down. He never has taken what the D gives, which is unacceptable and against a top D will lead to the garbage we saw.  Props to the Jets for whatever halftime adjustments they made that made Allen so uncomfortable 

 

I'm over it but eager to see what he does next week.  I'd be really concerned if he has a bad day. That'd be 3 in a row, counting the Cincy game. 

Josh was pretty bad in the Miami playoff game, too.  Unfortunately, this is becoming a trend.  
 

They call it the hardest position in sports for good reason.  The mental aspect of the position is at least as important as the physical.  Unfortunately, we have examples of guys who were at the top of the heap lose “it” pretty quickly for whatever reason: Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, probably Deshaun Watson. Let’s hope this is just a rough stretch and not part of a long-term decline.  I’d be really interested to hear some opinions from former NFL QBs like Dilfer, Simms, etc…

Edited September 13, 2023 by mannc

[SectionC3]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Honestly this comment is laughable and I can't even take this seriously. It's about as funny as your initial comment about what you would do with your 27 year old son to 'set him straight'. Last year the bills had the 2nd best offense in the NFL and diggs was one of the leading NFL Receivers. Diggs is a diva and if anyone needs to grow up its him, but I think he has based on how he got b$!ch#d in the offseason.

Read between the lines.  The former was an Instagram addict who couldn't help but share the things that nobody but her cared about with the world.  Heard from her lately?  So how and why is it that this attention-craving narcissist all of a sudden goes dark?  And how is the "lifestyle" funded at this point?  Maybe using that clue and the anger of the hyper-focused star WR about certain recent events we have a clue as to what the problem might be.  It's time to grow up, both personally and professionally. 

[mannc]

17 minutes ago, eball said:

Ok so the real question is “how do you fix Josh?”  Obviously you aren’t going to bench him, but how do you get him to be a team player and not always try to be the hero?

 

Unfortunately, we’re now into the season, so there isn’t a lot of time for a major overhaul if it’s something more than just “impatience” or “trying too hard”.  

[Lost]

Josh will probably come out and drop 350 and 4td 0int against the Raiders and we'll forget this topic even existed.   

[BuffaloRebound]

Performances like Monday night are hard to get past.  That was some of the worst and most reckless QB play I’ve ever seen.  Dorsey and McDermott need to go to the ‘break glass in case of emergency’ playbook.  Power running game, play action, and quick passes until Josh shows he’s not a turnover machine.  

[BillsFan692]

15 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Read between the lines.  The former was an Instagram addict who couldn't help but share the things that nobody but her cared about with the world.  Heard from her lately?  So how and why is it that this attention-craving narcissist all of a sudden goes dark?  And how is the "lifestyle" funded at this point?  Maybe using that clue and the anger of the hyper-focused star WR about certain recent events we have a clue as to what the problem might be.  It's time to grow up, both personally and professionally. 

Keep putting the clues together dick tracy, you'll crack the case soon.

[colin]

1 hour ago, peterpan said:

I hear a lot of “Josh needs to grow up”. 
 

what does that even mean??

 

He is playing poorly.  He is playing like he did in college.  Maybe this is just whom he is.  He had a good year/year and a half and that honeymoon is over.

 

McDermot and Dorsey need to be ready to bench him.  Just for one drive at first.  Then maybe a whole half, idk.  But he has earned a benching. 

 

the savage irony of you posting about not understanding growing up cuts deep.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

10 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I'm not watching all that.  Guy doesn't even show examples of what he's talking about.  I actually agree with whats said in the OP to some extent but why watch some guy tell it to me for a half hour? 

 

In any case, this is on Dorsey.  Part of Dorsey's job is to get Allen to buy into the offense and make the right plays.  If Allen doesn't believe in the offense then we have the wrong coach. (the game itself is on Allen... I am saying getting Allen right is on Dorsey."

 

I will say this though... people expecting Josh to "just take what the defense gives you brah" for an entire game every game are kidding themselves.  That stuff only works short term.  One mistake and its drive over.  Drive after drive that happens. You don't score points.  Teams like KC can get away with that because that little 2 or 3 yard dump off often goes for 8-15 yards. Our 2-3 yard dump offs go for 3-4 yards more often then not.  Yeah, it will move the chains... if you play perfect ball.  No one plays perfect ball all game every game.

I said this in the game thread Monday and I’m glad you brought it up again. People want josh to take the easy stuff and I do too but can we all stop acting like that’s going to fix everything? Josh isn’t that type of QB for better or worse. And throwing dump offs don’t work for us because we don’t have YAC guys, literally we have none and that’s an organization failure. We can’t block so we have to find quick routes, etc. Fine. But Dorsey can’t draw up big openings in space to create YAC and we don’t have weapons for that. Love Diggs but he catches the ball then always gets tackled. Gabe sucks at anything but going deep. The TEs aren’t exactly fast. I don’t trust Harry to be much. And cook, while fast, can’t shake a defender and can’t break tackles. So we’re kind of screwed against good defenses. They’re going to give us the easy stuff because even if josh takes the easy stuff, it’s going to take us forever to score since no one can take a dump off and turn it into a score like it seems like every other team seems to have. Josh knows this. He knows he has to score so unfortunately he reverts back. Add in the o line sucks and we have no run game and I can get why he’s pissed. Teams know this. They know we don’t have a CMC or a Tyreek. They’ll give us the easy stuff and then wrap up the recover quickly and frustrate josh more. 

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, Airseven said:

Exactly the distinction I’ve been considering. At this stage, I think it’s likely the latter. It’s not hero ball. It’s lack of preparation, confusion, and panic.

 

In fairness to Allen, if it's a lack of preparation then coaching is implicated as well.  And to me that's been a no-brainier since there's been a consistent lack of prep in other areas also, particularly in the playoffs.   

 

As far as the confusion and panic go, while other teams with top QBs have gone out of their ways to put solid OLs in front of them, McBeane have neglected that in favor of choosing to be obsessed with the pass rush and have all but ignored that until this season.  

 

Had they done that, it would have helped Allen properly develop in that way.  

 

The Jets' pass rush is outstanding, but it OL finally did a halfway decent job on Monday.  All five OL-men played 100% of the snaps and Torrence looked good.  Brown was the only consistent issue but even he blocked well at times.  

 

That exposed Allen's issues as as such.  But are those issues now a patterned behavior and response from five prior seasons of running for his life, we don't know.

 

The problem is that that also doesn't completely explain his not taking advantage of the higher percentage outlet passes.  

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

Not even a week ago we were all in a hizzy because some hack said josh wasn't studying and didn't put in the time (paraphrasing). Now look at us. Maybe just maybe when others aren't wearing rose colored glasses they see things we don't. Not saying the comment on josh was exactly correct (how are we to really know and understand what Josh does) 

[boyst]

55 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Part of it I’m guessing is a failure to win the play before the snap, which may well come from a lack of film study, which may well come from a feeling that “I’m the best athlete in the world - I will figure out what the defense is doing and react to it on the fly, and if that doesn’t work, I’ll just jump over or run through it.”

 

Josh is a baby.

i hate. absolutely hate. that the "win the playbefore the snap" became a saying but it is so damn accurate.

back in my day we just called it reading the defense but in todays nfl world the play is won or lost before the snap and anyone with football intelligence can read a play based on formation and personnel. @GG is extremely good at this.

 

part of the whole advancement of the game has made it easier to figure out the Bills defense with the hidden cover 2 lineups poyer and hyde were so good at in the past. the script is out on it.

 

before i got the boot from the shoutbox i used to diagnose the play for funsies there.

[Royale with Cheese]

He's on WGR now.

 

Said that Ken Dorsey gave him a good game plan with plenty of underneath throws for Allen to take.  

 

[Roundybout]

2 hours ago, peterpan said:

I hear a lot of “Josh needs to grow up”. 
 

what does that even mean??

 

He is playing poorly.  He is playing like he did in college.  Maybe this is just whom he is.  He had a good year/year and a half and that honeymoon is over.

 

McDermot and Dorsey need to be ready to bench him.  Just for one drive at first.  Then maybe a whole half, idk.  But he has earned a benching. 

You do not bench your franchise quarterback, end of discussion.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Josh is going to get Ken Dorsey fired if it’s true the throws were there and he just looked them off that’s on him. 
 
But what I do fear most of all is a team like the 49ers trading for him in a year or two if the Bills decide to pull the plug and letting a staff with Griese and Shannahan telling him do this and the 49ers forming an 80s dynasty and the Bills rebuilding with another rookie QB and going into the wilderness for the next few years. 

The 49ers are already a juggernaut right now without josh. I mention it all the time on this board because I’m not over the CMC trade and beane not getting him. That said. Shanahan doesn’t really want a guy like Josh. Sure he’s a fun toy but he would drive KS nuts. He wants a robot back there to execute his offense, that’s not josh. Josh is best off script. KS draws up the best scripts in the league. He’s unmatched. I get your point though. 

[dpberr]

Quite the solid podcast. I enjoyed that.

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

The 49ers are already a juggernaut right now without josh. I mention it all the time on this board because I’m not over the CMC trade and beane not getting him. That said. Shanahan doesn’t really want a guy like Josh. Sure he’s a fun toy but he would drive KS nuts. He wants a robot back there to execute his offense, that’s not josh. Josh is best off script. KS draws up the best scripts in the league. He’s unmatched. I get your point though. 

Shanahan traded multiple first round picks for Trey Lance who isn’t a robot.

[78thealltimegreat]

8 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

The 49ers are already a juggernaut right now without josh. I mention it all the time on this board because I’m not over the CMC trade and beane not getting him. That said. Shanahan doesn’t really want a guy like Josh. Sure he’s a fun toy but he would drive KS nuts. He wants a robot back there to execute his offense, that’s not josh. Josh is best off script. KS draws up the best scripts in the league. He’s unmatched. I get your point though. 

That’s what I fear Beaver some team says the Bills mismanaged this guy and trades for him and he goes lights out elsewhere then we are stuck waiting for hockey season for another 3 years while we wait for a young QB to “mature”. Justin Fields is proof also there isn’t that famous a number 1 receiver jump in a QBs 3rd year either. 
If not Shannahan can you imagine Sean Mcvay getting his hands on Allen as the Rams will do wacky things like that once Matt Stafford is done in a  year or two. 

[finn]

10 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One other change I might want to see is bringing the OC down to the field to get more face-to-face time and conversation between Dorsey and Allen. 

 

Isn't this kind of problem--a QB who's lost his way--one of the key responsibilities of a QB coach? I mean, what is more important? If he's biding his time waiting for another OC job, having potentially the best QB in NFL history melt down on his watch isn't what he wants on his resume. 

 

Short-term solution for McDermott: Fire the useless Brady and bring in a coach Allen will learn from, not some ambitious wannabe.

[corta765]

11 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is exactly what it looked like to me.

 

Unprofessional and immature.

 

Peoples’ livelihoods are at stake.  How is Josh gonna feel when his buddy the OC is canned because of him?  
 

Dude needs to GROW THE F UP already.

 

That sentiment is what pretty much everyone including national media has said. Just because you have this incredible ability to do wonders does not mean you can or should all the time, there is a level of moderation and live to fight another day. Up 13-3 with the Jets doing nothing on offense Allen at no point needed to go superman. I really hope this is the grand lesson for good for him because if he can eliminate the major brain farts he will have more seasons like 2020 vs the last two which he still was incredibly good but had games like last night.

[Franco_92]

5 hours ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

I'm not buying the it's pretty much all on Josh narrative.

 

For instance, I do agree, to address one of the concerns, that he may give up on standing in the pocket a little longer a bit too often, but I don't remember Brady having his RT pushed into his lap in such an embarrassing fashion in half a second either. Once you lose confidence in some of your guys, it's hard to revert the process. It becomes second nature.

 

Josh has his own faults, but changes around him have to happen, in the form of personnel, play calling, or drastic performance improvement, possibly all of the above, to get him back in a confort zone.

There are many games where pressure flustered Brady into bad performances. The Jets might be a historically good defense. It happens. Not absolving Spencer but that was not some uniquely awful line allen played behind - in fact his pressure rate was low relative to the average for week 1 QBs. He was horrible

 

33 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Shanahan traded multiple first round picks for Trey Lance who isn’t a robot.

Kinda proves his point. Dude wanted nothing to do with him ultimately and dumped him for nothing just 2 years later

[The Frankish Reich]

11 hours ago, buffblue said:

I won't lie, I'm a little concerned about him bouncing back even against a mediocre Raiders defense at home

I watched the Raiders D against the Broncos. And while the Broncos moved the ball effectively, Maxx Crosby was all over the place, a disruptive force on the order of Nick Bosa or prime JJ Watt.

And I suspect he'll be lined up right outside Spencer Brown. 

Knox, Gilliam (probably should've been Kendall Blanton?): help!

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, arcane said:

Kinda proves his point. Dude wanted nothing to do with him ultimately and dumped him for nothing just 2 years later

 

I was focusing on the point that Shanahan wanted that and why he invested so highly in Lance.  After he got Lance, he saw he was terrible and got rid of him,.

Shanahan would salivate over Allen IMO.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[starrymessenger]

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I was focusing on the point that Shanahan wanted that and why he invested so highly in Lance.  After he got Lance, he saw he was terrible and got rid of him,.

Shanahan would salivate over Allen IMO.

He would have to break him of bad habits. When Josh plays like he did on Monday he looks a whole lot like Trey. Neither one of them can see that safety in coverage. Only question becomes whether the pass is good enough to be intercepted.

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

I saw in the sack highlights where the Jets brought pressure and the pocket was collapsing, but it never caved in on him. Instead, Josh tried to take off running and caused the sack himself. I’m reminded that I see the same frenetic pocket collapsing all around Brady and Mahomes, but neither of those dudes panic like Josh. It’s like they know the rush won’t get to them in time, so they stand tall in there and make the throw. When there are avenues to escape - and there weren’t for Josh - that’s when you’ll see Mahomes do his loopty loops in the backfield until someone springs free.
 

Josh needs to become MUCH better in manipulating the pocket. That starts with having more trust in his OL, that even though things are collapsing all around him, it’s best to stand in there and make the throw because you’re not going to escape most of the time. Who knows how many potentially big plays were left on the table because he ran himself into a sack.

 

OK, now I got to say something to this.

 

First of all, Mahomes early in his career through the Super Bowl loss to Tampa, would 1) take incredibly deep drops which got deeper when pressured 2) would, in fact, not stay calm in a pocket, but bail out and run.  This was also evident during the AFC Championship loss to the Bengals in 2021.  Containing Mahomes successfully from breaking out and running was also, in fact, a necessary and important part of the Bills Division round game plan which got them punts and FG and kept them in the game.  And, by the way, in Week 8 of the 2021 season, the Chiefs were 4-4 - yes, there were problems with Mahomes and the passing offense.  

 

Staying in the pocket to throw was something Mahomes improved at last season, resulting in a 2nd Superbowl win - but let's not write as though that's who he's been as a QB from the start.  Recency bias there.

 

Second of all, while Brady would at times stand tall in the pocket, Brady spent his entire career in an offense designed off the short, quick pass with YAC.  Fact: since 2018 when breakdowns of completed air yards vs yards after catch became available on free sites like pro-football reference, Brady had LOWER CAY than YAC all but 1 year (2020) - and in 2020, it was 4.6 air yards to 4.5 yards after catch.  So you're talking about a totally different play design and reads, where the idea is to get the ball out quickly for a short completion.  Most of his career, Brady knew the pressure wouldn't get to him in time because the ball would be long gone.

 

Like it or not, that's a fundamentally different offensive play design than the deep-to-shallow reads designed into our offense that Josh is trying to buy time to execute.  And yes, Josh stands in the pocket sometimes, too.

 

So maybe chill with the "see the same frenetic pocket collapsing all around Brady and Mahomes but neither of those dudes panic like Josh".  No, that's not quite what you've seen.

 

 

3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

He would have to break him of bad habits. When Josh plays like he did on Monday he looks a whole lot like Trey. Neither one of them can see that safety in coverage. Only question becomes whether the pass is good enough to be intercepted.

 

I really think Orlovsky had the Word on OBD.  He goes over why QB throw INT, and points out that Josh very well knows the safety is back there.  He just has the "arm arrogance" to think he can get that throw in there anyway.  And maybe he would, if he weren't being hit just after the ball was released.  But being hit like that was part of the way the game was going against that fierce Jets DL.

 

And yes, while I disagree with you that Josh can't see the safety in coverage (I think Orlovsky is correct: he can, he just gets in a mindset where he thinks he can make the throw anyway), you are correct that Josh has developed some bad habits that need to be altered.

[starrymessenger]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, now I got to say something to this.

 

First of all, Mahomes early in his career through the Super Bowl loss to Tampa, would 1) take incredibly deep drops which got deeper when pressured 2) would, in fact, not stay calm in a pocket, but bail out and run.  This was also evident during the AFC Championship loss to the Bengals in 2021.  Containing Mahomes successfully from breaking out and running was also, in fact, a necessary and important part of the Bills Division round game plan which got them punts and FG and kept them in the game.  And, by the way, in Week 8 of the 2021 season, the Chiefs were 4-4 - yes, there were problems with Mahomes and the passing offense.  

 

Staying in the pocket to throw was something Mahomes improved at last season, resulting in a 2nd Superbowl win - but let's not write as though that's who he's been as a QB from the start.  Recency bias there.

 

Second of all, while Brady would at times stand tall in the pocket, Brady spent his entire career in an offense designed off the short, quick pass with YAC.  Fact: since 2018 when breakdowns of completed air yards vs yards after catch became available on free sites like pro-football reference, Brady had LOWER CAY than YAC all but 1 year (2020) - and in 2020, it was 4.6 air yards to 4.5 yards after catch.  So you're talking about a totally different play design and reads, where the idea is to get the ball out quickly for a short completion.  Most of his career, Brady knew the pressure wouldn't get to him in time because the ball would be long gone.

 

Like it or not, that's a fundamentally different offensive play design than the deep-to-shallow reads designed into our offense that Josh is trying to buy time to execute.  And yes, Josh stands in the pocket sometimes, too.

 

So maybe chill with the "see the same frenetic pocket collapsing all around Brady and Mahomes but neither of those dudes panic like Josh".  No, that's not quite what you've seen.

 

 

 

I really think Orlovsky had the Word on OBD.  He goes over why QB throw INT, and points out that Josh very well knows the safety is back there.  He just has the "arm arrogance" to think he can get that throw in there anyway.  And maybe he would, if he weren't being hit just after the ball was released.  But being hit like that was part of the way the game was going against that fierce Jets DL.

 

And yes, while I disagree with you that Josh can't see the safety in coverage (I think Orlovsky is correct: he can, he just gets in a mindset where he thinks he can make the throw anyway), you are correct that Josh has developed some bad habits that need to be altered.

I think you are probably right. More arm arrogance than anything else.

[davspo]

This is Josh Allen.  He will NEVER change.  This is year 6.  He is still running recklessly, making throws down field that are merely expressions of hope, and not trusting his oline.  The more I see the more I am coming to the understanding that the oline is not as bad as we think, but that Josh runs around before he needs to making it impossible for the linemen to keep their blocks.  People don't change.  Athletes do not change after 6 years in the pros.  

 

For better or worse he is ours.  Still a top tier qb and better than anything we have had since Jim Kelly.  A new OC will not help.  You can't control this guy, we just have to live with it.  

[ngbills]

12 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

He looked like the kid who showed up to the game without practicing, watching tape, reading scouting reports, etc. Either he was overhyped and lost his mind, was saying f you to the coaches im doing my think, or was just unprepared because he has other stuff going on. 

4 minutes ago, davspo said:

This is Josh Allen.  He will NEVER change.  This is year 6.  He is still running recklessly, making throws down field that are merely expressions of hope, and not trusting his oline.  The more I see the more I am coming to the understanding that the oline is not as bad as we think, but that Josh runs around before he needs to making it impossible for the linemen to keep their blocks.  People don't change.  Athletes do not change after 6 years in the pros.  

 

For better or worse he is ours.  Still a top tier qb and better than anything we have had since Jim Kelly.  A new OC will not help.  You can't control this guy, we just have to live with it.  

It’s not that extreme. Something is up if you look at the recent evidence. I think it’s coaching. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

3 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

There is fire to the smoke about certain other nonsense.  Let's put it this way: if it was my son who was doing or who had done certain things that constitute the "fire," there would be significant familial intervention.  Maybe a 27-year-old who might be worth $100m is beyond that.  In fact, it's probably the case.  But if it was my child, I'd be there to get his head right because life is short, time is precious, and these years--both professionally and personally--will fly quickly by. 

I don't believe that you have insider knowledge. If you do, there's no reason not to share it instead of being obtuse about it.

2 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Not even a week ago we were all in a hizzy because some hack said josh wasn't studying and didn't put in the time (paraphrasing). Now look at us. Maybe just maybe when others aren't wearing rose colored glasses they see things we don't. Not saying the comment on josh was exactly correct (how are we to really know and understand what Josh does) 

Thank you

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, eball said:

Ok so the real question is “how do you fix Josh?”  Obviously you aren’t going to bench him, but how do you get him to be a team player and not always try to be the hero?

 

Meds or make him a Eunuch. He isn’t gonna change the way he is.

[Coach Tuesday]

9 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Meds or make him a Eunuch. He isn’t gonna change the way he is.

I think that’s the real question we’re all dancing around but not asking directly:

 

Is Josh Allen coachable?

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

I think that’s the real question we’re all dancing around but not asking directly:

 

Is Josh Allen coachable?

 

Yes he's coachable.  Just because he falls back into bad habits doesn't mean everything about him is uncoachable.

He is a significantly better QB that he was his rookie year.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Shanahan traded multiple first round picks for Trey Lance who isn’t a robot.

And it failed miserably. If you read all the reports, he really wanted Mac Jones then they changed their minds for some reason. 

[Brand J]

27 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, now I got to say something to this.

 

First of all, Mahomes early in his career through the Super Bowl loss to Tampa, would 1) take incredibly deep drops which got deeper when pressured 2) would, in fact, not stay calm in a pocket, but bail out and run.  This was also evident during the AFC Championship loss to the Bengals in 2021.  Containing Mahomes successfully from breaking out and running was also, in fact, a necessary and important part of the Bills Division round game plan which got them punts and FG and kept them in the game.  And, by the way, in Week 8 of the 2021 season, the Chiefs were 4-4 - yes, there were problems with Mahomes and the passing offense.  

 

Staying in the pocket to throw was something Mahomes improved at last season, resulting in a 2nd Superbowl win - but let's not write as though that's who he's been as a QB from the start.  Recency bias there.

 

Second of all, while Brady would at times stand tall in the pocket, Brady spent his entire career in an offense designed off the short, quick pass with YAC.  Fact: since 2018 when breakdowns of completed air yards vs yards after catch became available on free sites like pro-football reference, Brady had LOWER CAY than YAC all but 1 year (2020) - and in 2020, it was 4.6 air yards to 4.5 yards after catch.  So you're talking about a totally different play design and reads, where the idea is to get the ball out quickly for a short completion.  Most of his career, Brady knew the pressure wouldn't get to him in time because the ball would be long gone.

 

Like it or not, that's a fundamentally different offensive play design than the deep-to-shallow reads designed into our offense that Josh is trying to buy time to execute.  And yes, Josh stands in the pocket sometimes, too.

 

So maybe chill with the "see the same frenetic pocket collapsing all around Brady and Mahomes but neither of those dudes panic like Josh".  No, that's not quite what you've seen.

That’s absolutely what I’ve seen. Are you also going to tell me I wasn’t screaming “get him!” as Bills defenders closed in and not one of them could get to either QB in time? Mahomes holds the ball like Josh so he’s more comparable, but NO offense is designed to hold it for 3+ seconds. Brady doesn’t have the wheels that Josh and Mahomes have, so knowing his pre and post snap reads were even more paramount to his success. And even in the instances his initial read was wrong and the pocket closed in around him, he never panicked. He kept his cool and looked to new targets. It was Houdini-like how no one could get to him in time, how many arm swipes that would’ve gotten there with just half a second more. My original point of not panicking when things closed in around them was valid, for both QBs. Mahomes has gotten better at this, no doubt, and that has also coincided with the improvement of his OL. Josh has to take that next step and also trust in his guys. 

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

That’s absolutely what I’ve seen.

 

OK

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Meds or make him a Eunuch. He isn’t gonna change the way he is.

 

 

Josh has played differently in different games.  His post-season performances in 2021 were masterpieces of "taking what is given".

 

So were a number of his early games in 2022 - Rams, Titans, Chiefs.

 

In fact, Josh's first half was to my eyes, markedly different than the 2nd half. 
I could say the same about the Packers game.

 

I think two things are at play:

1) either Josh gets his bell rung a bit (he did come down hard on his head on one scramble) and reverts to his lifelong instincts

or

2) Josh gets impatient with playing the game the defense is giving him, and gets overcome by the desire to Make A Big Play

 

Since he's managed to contain himself in previous games, he needs to figure out what the difference is.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Beck Water