Can James Cook break a tackle, ever?!?!

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Of all the terrible takes coming out of week 1 this was the most terrible. 

 

 

There were people who insisted Devin Singletary was just awful too.........despite him putting up very good ypa year after year.

 

RB lovers will not be satisfied until they get something akin to Bijan Robinson..........a player who is called the best player in the draft by some hot take draft talking heads.    

 

And whether the player actually consistently produces or stays healthy in the NFL or not is a DISTANT secondary concern to his draft pedigree.   

 

[HappyDays]

All this run offense needed was some speed to take full advantage of easy opportunities given to us by the defensive coverages we face.

[VW82]

Cook not breaking tackles is a legitimate gripe even though he’s obviously good. 
 

I’d prefer we start games with one of Murray or Harris. Soften up the defense first, and then bing in Cook to gash them for big plays. He can still get 20 touches like that. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

7 YPC on draws... That's incredible. Although the Raiders game was surely responsible for most of that success. We'll have to see if it continues.

 

Yeah - and he turned some of the negatives into... mildly positive gains against NYJ.  I think one of the big losers was a pitch actually too.  

 

Probably just remembering a 2nd and 15 draw and being pissed off.  Good to know though!

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Cook not breaking tackles is a legitimate gripe even though he’s obviously good. 

 

So I think there's two conversations here. Cook is not the type to take on a defensive player head on and power through the tackle. In that scenario he usually goes down on first contact. But because of his speed and smooth cutting he often times puts defenders in situations where they're just getting a hand or an arm on him and he's gliding right through those tackle attempts.

 

The thing is defenses are giving us a ton of space to work with up front because they're so focused on stopping our pass game. So Cook's skill set in that chess match is a lot more valuable than a hard-nosed downhill thumper. We don't need someone that can power through a loaded box, we need someone that can take full advantage of that free space. FWIW I've been saying this for years. Cook is perfect for our offense.

[Royale with Cheese]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:00 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

No, he's fast but has no ability to shed anyone.  And when your moron OC calls these delayed draws, it gives James no chance to use that speed.

 

Do you still feel Dorsey is still a moron when we are averaging 7 ypc on draws?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you still feel Dorsey is still a moron when we are averaging 7 ypc on draws?

it's almost like ppl don't watch the game

 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So I think there's two conversations here. Cook is not the type to take on a defensive player head on and power through the tackle. In that scenario he usually goes down on first contact. But because of his speed and smooth cutting he often times puts defenders in situations where they're just getting a hand or an arm on him and he's gliding right through those tackle attempts.

 

The thing is defenses are giving us a ton of space to work with up front because they're so focused on stopping our pass game. So Cook's skill set in that chess match is a lot more valuable than a hard-nosed downhill thumper. We don't need someone that can power through a loaded box, we need someone that can take full advantage of that free space. FWIW I've been saying this for years. Cook is perfect for our offense.

 

Yep me too. It was my main gripe with Singletary who was a steady starting back. I think this O is built for a fast running back. That speed makes a real difference. 

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

All this run offense needed was some speed to take full advantage of easy opportunities given to us by the defensive coverages we face.

And better OGs

[GunnerBill]

Just now, NewEra said:

And better OGs

 

Yep, it's both. A back with speed and better interior blocking. 

[34-78-83]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

12 people agree with, 2 like and 1 awesome this OP.

 

🤣

It's like one of those "I'm with Stupid > " T-shirts 😁

[Shaw66]

59 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So I think there's two conversations here. Cook is not the type to take on a defensive player head on and power through the tackle. In that scenario he usually goes down on first contact. But because of his speed and smooth cutting he often times puts defenders in situations where they're just getting a hand or an arm on him and he's gliding right through those tackle attempts.

 

The thing is defenses are giving us a ton of space to work with up front because they're so focused on stopping our pass game. So Cook's skill set in that chess match is a lot more valuable than a hard-nosed downhill thumper. We don't need someone that can power through a loaded box, we need someone that can take full advantage of that free space. FWIW I've been saying this for years. Cook is perfect for our offense.

Well, I'm still not so thrilled.   I do think the guy needs SOME ability to break tackles; he needs at least a little power in his game. 

 

But having said that, I agree with you.   And there's a particular point that you didn't mention that has impressed me.   I think he sees the creases really well.  He has some hesitation in his game, not always, but sometimes, because he seems to understand that the opening isn't there yet but it's coming.   Your point about his speed and smooth cutting is relevant here.  When he sees where he wants to go, he's quick to accelerate, and he accelerates really well.   And it is smooth; he just flows into his cuts.  

 

He'll never be a power back and I'm not sure he's going to break a lot of really long runs.   But he's a constant threat to go 12 yards, a bigger threat than Singletary was.  And because he catches the ball well, part of what makes him a threat is that the Bills can get him the ball in places necessary to attack every part of the line of scrimmage, from the right flat right through the middle of the line to the left flat.  Singletary attacked between the tackles, and the Bills needed McKenzie in the lineup to threaten wide.  Cook means the Bills can attack all along the line with just one guy.   Sunday they ran a few stretch handoffs to get Cook on the edge before the defense could adjust.  Allen has the ability to get out to make the handoff behind the tackle in a hurry.

 

He doesn't look like a superstar, but he has the potential to be seriously good.   Well, let's say that differently: I'm becoming convinced that he IS seriously good; it's just that people around the league aren't really understanding it yet.   (I feel the same way about Rousseau.  Later this season, I think the talking heads will be talking about both of them.)

 

Two other related points.   First, I know he's not Marcus Allen, but Cook's running style reminds me of Allen.   Allen was really smooth, and Cook is smooth like him.   Cook seems to glide around the field the way Allen did.   Allen had the power that made him a Hall of Famer, and Cook may never show that, but the fact that his style looks like Allen is enough for now. 

 

Second, I think the Bills needed a running back like Cook in order for McDermott's vision for the offensive line to work.  I'm sure that McDermott's vision is an offensive line that can do it all - protect the passer and support a running game that can dominate in the fourth quarter.   His vision of the players he needs are the jackknife guys we keep seeing on his roster.  Brown and Dawkins are not classic offensive tackles.   They don't hold up to the pass rush as well as elite guys, but they're both mobile in ways that give the run game a lot of variety.   There was a play Sunday where Brown ended up ahead of a five-yard run off left tackle.   I only saw the replay once, and I simply couldn't figure out how he got there.   There was another play when Dawkins led Cook into the hole off right guard.   Morse, of course, gets upfield really well.   The challenge for the offensive line is to be that mobile and still keep Allen in clean pockets.  That went pretty well on Sundays and frankly, the Bills expect Allen to read the rush well enough to escape when his mobile offensive line isn't quite perfect in pass pro. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Maybe Cook wouldn’t have to break so many tackles if Kincaid could throw a block!

[BigAl2526]

James Cook is what he is, an undersized back with speed.  I don't expect he's ever going to break a lot of tackles, but that doesn't mean he can't be a valuable and productive running back for the Bills.  I don't know that I'd want James Cook on my team without a good run blocking offensive line, because he's not the kind of running back who is going to make yardage inside without some holes.  He's also going to struggle when defenses have lots of speed on the outside.  The Bills have to be careful not to broadcast their intentions in running the ball.  They have three different running backs.  One of them (Cook) has speed to the outside and can be used like a receiver.  Murray is a bruiser with some straight line speed.  Harris is a slippery medium sized back who can get through small holes inside and also has some power for tough yards in short yardage situations.  The team needs to figure out how to use Cook successfully inside so defenses can't just assume he'll run outside and defend accordingly.  Likewise, I think they need to pass occasionally to Murray and Harris and even run them outside, at least enough to keep defenses honest.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

There were people who insisted Devin Singletary was just awful too.........despite him putting up very good ypa year after year.

 

RB lovers will not be satisfied until they get something akin to Bijan Robinson..........a player who is called the best player in the draft by some hot take draft talking heads.    

 

And whether the player actually consistently produces or stays healthy in the NFL or not is a DISTANT secondary concern to his draft pedigree.   

 

 

Cook is a big upgrade over Singletary.

[Spiderweb]

6 hours ago, VW82 said:

Cook not breaking tackles is a legitimate gripe even though he’s obviously good. 
 

I’d prefer we start games with one of Murray or Harris. Soften up the defense first, and then bing in Cook to gash them for big plays. He can still get 20 touches like that. 

Yards gained after contact doesn't support your opinion. Just stop.

[warrior9]

2 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

Yards gained after contact doesn't support your opinion. Just stop.

Dude, there is no way a human is that dense. 

 

Bills fans will LITERALLLLLLLY stare at stats and videos of something happening and STILL say "no that's not true." They can't get over their feelings about a person once they formulated them.

 

He's been INCREDIBLY elusive so far this year and even in to the back half of last year. People were pounding the fking table for speed for YEARS with singletary... now we have it and they want power? It's absolutely asinine 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I'm still not so thrilled.   I do think the guy needs SOME ability to break tackles; he needs at least a little power in his game. 

 

But having said that, I agree with you.   And there's a particular point that you didn't mention that has impressed me.   I think he sees the creases really well.  He has some hesitation in his game, not always, but sometimes, because he seems to understand that the opening isn't there yet but it's coming.   Your point about his speed and smooth cutting is relevant here.  When he sees where he wants to go, he's quick to accelerate, and he accelerates really well.   And it is smooth; he just flows into his cuts.  

 

He'll never be a power back and I'm not sure he's going to break a lot of really long runs.   But he's a constant threat to go 12 yards, a bigger threat than Singletary was.  And because he catches the ball well, part of what makes him a threat is that the Bills can get him the ball in places necessary to attack every part of the line of scrimmage, from the right flat right through the middle of the line to the left flat.  Singletary attacked between the tackles, and the Bills needed McKenzie in the lineup to threaten wide.  Cook means the Bills can attack all along the line with just one guy.   Sunday they ran a few stretch handoffs to get Cook on the edge before the defense could adjust.  Allen has the ability to get out to make the handoff behind the tackle in a hurry.

 

He doesn't look like a superstar, but he has the potential to be seriously good.   Well, let's say that differently: I'm becoming convinced that he IS seriously good; it's just that people around the league aren't really understanding it yet.   (I feel the same way about Rousseau.  Later this season, I think the talking heads will be talking about both of them.)

 

Two other related points.   First, I know he's not Marcus Allen, but Cook's running style reminds me of Allen.   Allen was really smooth, and Cook is smooth like him.   Cook seems to glide around the field the way Allen did.   Allen had the power that made him a Hall of Famer, and Cook may never show that, but the fact that his style looks like Allen is enough for now. 

 

Second, I think the Bills needed a running back like Cook in order for McDermott's vision for the offensive line to work.  I'm sure that McDermott's vision is an offensive line that can do it all - protect the passer and support a running game that can dominate in the fourth quarter.   His vision of the players he needs are the jackknife guys we keep seeing on his roster.  Brown and Dawkins are not classic offensive tackles.   They don't hold up to the pass rush as well as elite guys, but they're both mobile in ways that give the run game a lot of variety.   There was a play Sunday where Brown ended up ahead of a five-yard run off left tackle.   I only saw the replay once, and I simply couldn't figure out how he got there.   There was another play when Dawkins led Cook into the hole off right guard.   Morse, of course, gets upfield really well.   The challenge for the offensive line is to be that mobile and still keep Allen in clean pockets.  That went pretty well on Sundays and frankly, the Bills expect Allen to read the rush well enough to escape when his mobile offensive line isn't quite perfect in pass pro. 

 

You jinxed it.  Now he's going to get at least one 40 yard run this week.  

[NewEra]

Cam Akers traded to Vikings for 2026 pick swap.  No clue which round.

 

not worthy of its own thread.  I’d rather have our 3 rbs

[unbillievable]

Cook is more Barry than Emitt

[hondo in seattle]

I thought we signed Murray and Harris to break tackles and drafted Cook to run away from tackles.  

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I thought we signed Murray and Harris to break tackles and drafted Cook to run away from tackles.  

We did there’s just always somebody just got a B word about everything whenever you’re running back is running for over 100 yards in a game. Why are you complaining? Not specifically you just in general

[Scott7975]

Every Cook run and catch Raiders

 

and Jets

 

 

[Maine-iac]

2 hours ago, unbillievable said:

Cook is more Barry than Emitt

I'll see your Barry and raise you a Jamaal Charles.  

12 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Every Cook run and catch Raiders

 

and Jets

 

 

He looked even better than I remembered watching the game and I thought he looked pretty good the first time.

[Maine-iac]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

All this run offense needed was some speed to take full advantage of easy opportunities given to us by the defensive coverages we face.

What this run offense needed was some carries (this year or last year).  Glad to see them handing the ball off.  It will help our passing game in the long run.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Cook is a big upgrade over Singletary.

 

 

The talent difference is significant...........but that was to be expected in every way.

 

Higher pedigree, tested better, drafted earlier in a much better RB draft and then as a rookie put up about a yard per carry more than the "good" Devin Singletary.

 

He's gotta' keep it up throughout his rookie deal and show durability but he's definitely more talented.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The talent difference is significant...........but that was to be expected in every way.

 

Higher pedigree, tested better, drafted earlier in a much better RB draft and then as a rookie put up about a yard per carry more than the "good" Devin Singletary.

 

He's gotta' keep it up throughout his rookie deal and show durability but he's definitely more talented.

 

I really like our committee of rbs this season.  I wasn't even down on Singletary. I liked him.  This room as a whole though, I think is much better than any room McD's Bills have had.

[k2mountain]

Between this "can Cook break a tackle" and the recent "can Kincaid throw a block" threads, I'm surprised Beane still has a job.  /sarc

 

Some like to stir it up. 

 

 

[HOUSE]

Dalton Kincaid can't block either

Who drafted this team 

[PrimeTime101]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:28 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

You are completely removing his ability to take on contact.  The reason you don’t get clean tackles on him because Cook keeps them on skates….that shouldn’t be held against him.

no and I 100% agree with this. you are right. 

[PrimeTime101]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:27 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Ah so broken tackles only count if they are good tackles? Interesting. Wonder how many NFL running backs are routinely breaking out of good tackles?

 

 

You know it is a very slippery slope as to what is considered a tackle attempt and what isnt. Maybe you could call that a tackle attempt. My point being is, Cook is not going to break out of really GOOD tackle attempts like many other HB's can. This is not a thing against Cook. Cook is a different player. and my main point was, There is a huge difference between yards after contact and a broken tackle. 

 

A HB Runs into his own line and a DE has his hands on him a split second? is this a tackle attempt? or is this yards after contact? 

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

You know it is a very slippery slope as to what is considered a tackle attempt and what isnt. Maybe you could call that a tackle attempt. My point being is, Cook is not going to break out of really GOOD tackle attempts like many other HB's can. This is not a thing against Cook. Cook is a different player. and my main point was, There is a huge difference between yards after contact and a broken tackle. 

 

A HB Runs into his own line and a DE has his hands on him a split second? is this a tackle attempt? or is this yards after contact? 

 

My point is that there are not "many other HBs" who can break out of good tackles. The overwhelming majority of yards after contact by RBs in the NFL come from poor tackle attempts. 

[NewEra]

24 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

You know it is a very slippery slope as to what is considered a tackle attempt and what isnt. Maybe you could call that a tackle attempt. My point being is, Cook is not going to break out of really GOOD tackle attempts like many other HB's can. This is not a thing against Cook. Cook is a different player. and my main point was, There is a huge difference between yards after contact and a broken tackle. 

 

A HB Runs into his own line and a DE has his hands on him a split second? is this a tackle attempt? or is this yards after contact? 

The first play of the 2nd qtr, Spillane had a clear run at cook in the backfield and smacked him dead on.  Cook bounced off of him and got 4 yards that he shouldn’t have had…..IF he didn’t have sufficient contract balance.  That’s what breaking tackles is 90% of the time.  
 

Spillane didn’t really attempt to wrap him up….and if he did, cook probably would’ve been tackled….just as the majority of the nfl RBs would’ve been. 

 

He’s not going to be a grinder that consistently moves the pile because of his physical makeup….but his YPC tells us that’s he’s a legit starting RB that the opposition will have to start paying more attention to.  Teams wanting to cover 2 shell us to death are going to have to deal with him and Kincaid.  

[boyst]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The talent difference is significant...........but that was to be expected in every way.

 

Higher pedigree, tested better, drafted earlier in a much better RB draft and then as a rookie put up about a yard per carry more than the "good" Devin Singletary.

 

He's gotta' keep it up throughout his rookie deal and show durability but he's definitely more talented.

The only thing he doesn't do is block as good as Motor.

 

And that's significant given motors size. Or lack there of

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, boyst said:

The only thing he doesn't do is block as good as Motor.

 

And that's significant given motors size. Or lack there of

 

That is fair - Motor was good in pass pro. But we have already seen Cook has improved in that facet from where was as a rook. So positive signs. 

[NewEra]

Jimbo wasn’t seen at practice today according to Getzenberg

 

hopefully it’s nothing to worry about

[ColoradoBills]

Cook has 222 all-purpose yards with 6.0 yards a touch.  That's on 59% of the offensive snaps.

Seems like a pretty good start to me.  That would be a season of 1,887 all-purpose yards.

I would love that!

 

Not putting Motor down at all, but he had 1,099 yards and a 5.1 yards per touch with 65% of the snaps.

Seems like a pretty big improvement, if that was to happen.

 

I like Cooks running style and he compliments Murray and Harris well IMO.

 

[PrimeTime101]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

The first play of the 2nd qtr, Spillane had a clear run at cook in the backfield and smacked him dead on.  Cook bounced off of him and got 4 yards that he shouldn’t have had…..IF he didn’t have sufficient contract balance.  That’s what breaking tackles is 90% of the time.  
 

Spillane didn’t really attempt to wrap him up….and if he did, cook probably would’ve been tackled….just as the majority of the nfl RBs would’ve been. 

 

He’s not going to be a grinder that consistently moves the pile because of his physical makeup….but his YPC tells us that’s he’s a legit starting RB that the opposition will have to start paying more attention to.  Teams wanting to cover 2 shell us to death are going to have to deal with him and Kincaid.  

100% agree

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

Jimbo wasn’t seen at practice today according to Getzenberg

 

hopefully it’s nothing to worry about

 

He a daddy.

[The Wiz]

Well this should settle the debate.