Chargers blew it

[dollars 2 donuts]

14 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

If Tua had been drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round, or even just the late 1st, I think people would have a more realistic appreciation of his game.  He's a good, solid, well above-average QB with durability issues who can take a team as far as their supporting cast allows.  He is not in the same category as Mahomes, Burrow, or Allen.  If I were building a team from scratch, I would definitely want Herbert over Tua.  But I do think Tua is in the same general tier as players like Lawrence, Fields, Jackson, etc.  Those are good players too, who I think would have similar levels of success if they were on this Miami team.  

 

The problem is that Tua was heralded as some sort of generational prospect -- "tank for Tua" -- that he obviously isn't.  I mean, he's fine.  He's a good QB.  Miami did not whiff that pick the way Cleveland whiffed on Mayfield or New York whiffed on Darnold.  People just need to find a middle ground between "he's elite" and "he sucks."  Neither of those statements is true.

He’s not fine, he’s good.  Maybe very good.

 

You also placed him in a tier with other highly touted 1st round picks who are also good. 

 

What fans cheer as far as “Tank for Tua” makes no difference and this far into his career anyone, even them and us, should be well over it.

 

The nuts and bolts is whether he is a good QB or not? 
 

In his last 14 games he has 4,000 yards passing, 28 passing tds, 9 picks and an overall QB rating of about 105.  Recency and primacy. 
 

He is really a pretty good QB, and he is in our division. 
 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[Warriorspikes51]

Bosa and Mack being invisible all game when OT Armstead wasn't on the field....was upsetting 

[Shaw66]

I had two reactions to the game. 

 

First, I think the Chargers' problem is their head coach.  I watch that team and I always think they are underprepared.   The lack of discipline on the pass interference at the end of the half was astonishing.  The Chargers always shoot themselves in the,  foot, and usually it's with an AR-47 and not just a pistol. 

 

Second, Tua and the Dolphins are really good.   Tua is smart and an excellent decision maker, and he is an extremely accurate thrower.  It's remarkable how accurate his throws are, over and over.  The two throws to Hill to win the game were just two examples, but every throw is on the money.   And McDaniel is perfect for him.  The Dolphins passing attack consistently gets receivers open over the middle, where Tua's accurate arm can find them.  (Tua's arm strength is suspect, and throws to the boundary challenge him, so throwing over the middle is critical).   He gets receivers open with unusual formations and routes.   Yesterday he was starting a receiver in motion a half-count before the snap, so that the defense was caught reacting to the motion when the snap came.  It was very clever - it gave the motion receiver an instantaneous advantage that helped open him up for a short throw.  

 

I don't know how good their defense is, but their offense is tough to stop. 

[DCofNC]

7 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

He’s not fine, he’s good.  Maybe very good.

 

You also placed him in a tier with other highly touted 1st round picks who are also good. 

 

What fans cheer as far as “Tank for Tua” makes no difference and this far into his career anyone, even them and us, should be well over it.

 

The nuts and bolts is whether he is a good QB or not? 
 

In his last 14 games he has 4,000 yards passing, 28 passing tds, 9 picks and an overall QB rating of about 105.  Recency and primacy. 
 

He is really a pretty good QB, and he is in our division. 
 

 

 

Exactly, if it weren’t for the concussions, people would be ranking him as a top 5 guy.  He’s scary because you never know if a stiff breeze is going to knock him out for the year, but when he’s playing, his numbers/ actual performances are really only being topped by the truly elite guys.   There was a reason everyone thought he was going to be the #1 pick, he’s good.  He’s actually really good.  A healthy version, ask yourself, is there really anybody out there that’s out performing him aside from Maholmes, Allen, Burrow?  I think he falls right in the Hurts, Herbert etc level, which is damn good.  

[BillsFanSD]

13 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

He’s not fine, he’s good.  Maybe very good.

 

You also placed him in a tier with other highly touted 1st round picks who are also good. 

 

What fans cheer as far as “Tank for Tua” makes no difference and this far into his career anyone, even them and us, should be well over it.

 

The nuts and bolts is whether he is a good QB or not? 
 

In his last 14 games he has 4,000 yards passing, 28 passing tds, 9 picks and an overall QB rating of about 105.  Recency and primacy. 
 

He is really a pretty good QB, and he is in our division. 
 

 

 

I was agreeing with you . . . 

[Utah John]

Hill didn't suddenly get faster.  The Chargers D simply wasn't prepared for him.  Which is odd because the Chargers used to face Hill twice a year, so they should have had a clue about how to stop him.  

 

Tua on balance had a very good game, but mostly he hit wide open receivers who ran for huge YAC.  Any NFL QB could have completed those throws.  He gets credit for completing the passes he did, but it was Hill's good play and the Chargers' lousy D that made Tua look good. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

6 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I was agreeing with you . . . 

 

Sorry, brother, if it seemed I was digging on you it really wasn’t my intent. My follow up was just reinforcement.

Edited September 11, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Hill didn't suddenly get faster.  The Chargers D simply wasn't prepared for him.  Which is odd because the Chargers used to face Hill twice a year, so they should have had a clue about how to stop him.  

 

Tua on balance had a very good game, but mostly he hit wide open receivers who ran for huge YAC.  Any NFL QB could have completed those throws.  He gets credit for completing the passes he did, but it was Hill's good play and the Chargers' lousy D that made Tua look good. 

your rationalization is ridiculous. Did you watch any games yesterday? So many QBs missed easy throws all day

[warrior9]

2 hours ago, LondonBill said:

Good to see the calls for a coach to be fired starting in Week 1.

 

Surprised they managed to come before Bills had played a down, though. 

To be fair, Staley should have been fired after last year maybe even the year before. That roster is full of talent... maybe the most in the NFL and he just can't put it together. It's so mind blowing. 

[The Frankish Reich]

26 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

He’s not fine, he’s good.  Maybe very good.

 

You also placed him in a tier with other highly touted 1st round picks who are also good. 

 

What fans cheer as far as “Tank for Tua” makes no difference and this far into his career anyone, even them and us, should be well over it.

 

The nuts and bolts is whether he is a good QB or not? 
 

In his last 14 games he has 4,000 yards passing, 28 passing tds, 9 picks and an overall QB rating of about 105.  Recency and primacy. 
 

He is really a pretty good QB, and he is in our division. 
 

 

 

We will forever be doomed on this board to deal with comments like "he's not Josh Allen" or "he's not a franchise QB" or "what if [add name of mediocre QB] has his weapons at WR?"

Whatever.

He's good as long as he can stay healthy. Which is questionable. We saw what a mediocre QB (Bridgewater) could do with that offense last year, and the difference was huge.

[Xwnyer]

17 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I had two reactions to the game. 

 

First, I think the Chargers' problem is their head coach.  I watch that team and I always think they are underprepared.   The lack of discipline on the pass interference at the end of the half was astonishing.  The Chargers always shoot themselves in the,  foot, and usually it's with an AR-47 and not just a pistol. 

 

Second, Tua and the Dolphins are really good.   Tua is smart and an excellent decision maker, and he is an extremely accurate thrower.  It's remarkable how accurate his throws are, over and over.  The two throws to Hill to win the game were just two examples, but every throw is on the money.   And McDaniel is perfect for him.  The Dolphins passing attack consistently gets receivers open over the middle, where Tua's accurate arm can find them.  (Tua's arm strength is suspect, and throws to the boundary challenge him, so throwing over the middle is critical).   He gets receivers open with unusual formations and routes.   Yesterday he was starting a receiver in motion a half-count before the snap, so that the defense was caught reacting to the motion when the snap came.  It was very clever - it gave the motion receiver an instantaneous advantage that helped open him up for a short throw.  

 

I don't know how good their defense is, but their offense is tough to stop. 

they are a scary team when ya cant disrupt the timing.  The use of motion and forward movement of the man in motion just prior to the snap shows spectacular timing of the designed play.   Hoping our OC can figure out how to use motion like this.  Our men in motion seem to always be just to move a guy from one spot to another not to create the mismatch of the snap while in motion.

[julian]

2 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Can you imagine Daboll coaching that team? He has zero talent in NJ and won a playoff game last year 

 

Staley blew a huge lead in the playoffs with that roster 

He’s in over his head, and can we all agree Joey Bosa is very very very far from his brother.

[AuntieEm]

53 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I had two reactions to the game. 

 

First, I think the Chargers' problem is their head coach.  I watch that team and I always think they are underprepared.   The lack of discipline on the pass interference at the end of the half was astonishing.  The Chargers always shoot themselves in the,  foot, and usually it's with an AR-47 and not just a pistol. 

 

Second, Tua and the Dolphins are really good.   Tua is smart and an excellent decision maker, and he is an extremely accurate thrower.  It's remarkable how accurate his throws are, over and over.  The two throws to Hill to win the game were just two examples, but every throw is on the money.   And McDaniel is perfect for him.  The Dolphins passing attack consistently gets receivers open over the middle, where Tua's accurate arm can find them.  (Tua's arm strength is suspect, and throws to the boundary challenge him, so throwing over the middle is critical).   He gets receivers open with unusual formations and routes.   Yesterday he was starting a receiver in motion a half-count before the snap, so that the defense was caught reacting to the motion when the snap came.  It was very clever - it gave the motion receiver an instantaneous advantage that helped open him up for a short throw.  

 

I don't know how good their defense is, but their offense is tough to stop. 

 

And it's so easy to stop Josh Allen's offensive games.  We may have a much improved Allen with all his new toys he wants to keep happy.  I'm sure they have a number of plays they haven't put on tape yet.  Not sure how many they will need against the Jets tonight.  

Edited September 11, 2023 by AuntieEm

[HappyDays]

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

As well as Hill and Tua played, I think it'd be disingenuous to not admit that, if not for 2 mind-numbingly dumb plays by J.C. Jackson, the Chargers win. 

[Utah John]

58 minutes ago, nucci said:

your rationalization is ridiculous. Did you watch any games yesterday? So many QBs missed easy throws all day

Why are people on this board so nasty?  Calling something ridiculous is simply over the top.  

[Dopey]

14 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Yeah, he did a great job of hitting his wide open, untouched receivers and taking advantage of that stellar play the Chargers defense and coaching put out there.

Yeah, Hill was WIDE THE EFF OPEN here. That game winning TD to Hill was a dart and Hill was blanketed. This post is just ridiculous. Sorry to Utah John for using the word ridiculous. Not meant to be over the top.

 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9skIzlpfpSM

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Dopey

[nucci]

18 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Why are people on this board so nasty?  Calling something ridiculous is simply over the top.  

Sorry

[Dopey]

15 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

Cb ints in end zone tries to run it out versus taking touch back. Ends up tackled at 3 chargers go 3 n out and out from own end zone. Next play Hill beats cb for a TD.  Later on in game chargers lead have fins rattled 3 rd and long and agai hill beats them deep.  Later in series again hill beats them for a TD.  the chargers defense let Tua have ample time and left receivers free was Leslie Frazer consulting their D

Frazier is gone now. Can't let go?!? 😢

[HappyDays]

 

[Dan in Owego]

16 hours ago, Iverwig said:

Noodle arm Tua on that last throw. 

 

1 hour ago, nucci said:

your rationalization is ridiculous. Did you watch any games yesterday? So many QBs missed easy throws all day

True, but many were playing in less than ideal conditions every North East game was on and off heavy rain, I like Tua but that was a really beautiful day in San Diego 😊

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Dan in Owego said:

 

True, but many were playing in less than ideal conditions every North East game was on and off heavy rain, I like Tua but that was a really beautiful day in San Diego 😊

It was a nice day under the roof in Los Angeles, too. 

[Dan in Owego]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

It was a nice day under the roof in Los Angeles, too. 

🤣 yes

[Dopey]

15 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Didn’t watch the game but from what a friend told me Tua could’ve easily had at least 5 turnovers between fumbles and dropped picks. So the crappy part is all anyone will say all week is how amazing Tua played. Seems as though this was a game where the stats don’t tell the whole story

Hearsay is not allowed in this courtroom!! Not even sure why you bothered to chime in. To complain about something, anything? Not surprised on this board and by a select few.  As to the bold, I am Dopey, but what did you mean to say here?!?!

[Alphadawg7]

I watched this game...my takeaways were that I don't think either team is a real Super Bowl contender, and I am not even sure the Chargers make the playoffs.  How Staley still has a job is puzzling to me, this team does not know how to win and has way too much talent to not be even a playoff team.  Dolphins defense, for all the offseason hoopla, looked meh most the game.  They got some big sacks on the last series, but outside of that, they didn't look much different to me than last year.  

 

Tua and Hill had big games, but he got help from the Chargers to do so.  I will give Tua credit, he did make some really nice throws in that 2nd half, but regardless the Chargers should have won this game but they did what they always do and failed to capitalize on opportunities or close the game out.  

 

Im not concerned about either team that much. 

[klos63]

15 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Didn’t watch the game but from what a friend told me Tua could’ve easily had at least 5 turnovers between fumbles and dropped picks. So the crappy part is all anyone will say all week is how amazing Tua played. Seems as though this was a game where the stats don’t tell the whole story

You might want to watch a game before commenting on it.  

[billsbackto81]

44 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Yeah, Hill was WIDE THE EFF OPEN here. That game winning TD to Hill was a dart and Hill was blanketed. This post is just ridiculous. Sorry to Utah John for using the word ridiculous. Not meant to be over the top.

 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9skIzlpfpSM

 

 

 

 

 

If you noticed any follow up posts I did give him credit on his final drive mentioning the 3rd and 10 throw to Hill and the TD fade was spectacular. But I also noticed that all game long the Miami receivers having a free release at the LOS. Hill most times had a running start while in motion going into his route. Good luck covering that.

[Nuncha]

Don't know why they didn't run the ball more to keep the Dolphins offense off the field.  Chargers ran it very well and it was obvious they couldn't stop Hill.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Nuncha said:

Don't know why they didn't run the ball more to keep the Dolphins offense off the field.  Chargers ran it very well and it was obvious they couldn't stop Hill.

Here’s your answer: it’s the Chargers. 🙄

[TampaBillsJunkie]

Tua, Hill and Waddle are a great combination. Sorry but Tua when healthy has been pretty damn good. No one in this division is a pushover. We will have to play solid and earn it.

[Paup 1995MVP]

15 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Did you watch the game? 

Herbert was great. The Chargers D lost it. 

Herbert is never great.  He was good at times, like he always is.  But he comes up short in the clutch time and again.   

 

Agree that Chargers defense is just plain bad.  

[Chicken Boo]

16 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Justin Herbert gets paid top 3 QB money for what I have no idea. 
 

Their best player is Austin Ekeler who didn’t play the last series for some reason.  

 

I said this exact thing during the Ekeler trade talk.

[Just in Atlanta]

The Chargers are a contender, preseason, nearly every year - whether Rivers or Herbert are behind center.

Great offensive weapons, DBs, etc.

 

But, each year, regardless of coach, they fall when the chips are in. They don't know how to win close games. They just fold. 

 

How can this be the MO for a team with so many different coaches and players and regimes?

 

The only common thread is ownership.  And perhaps a weak fanbase. 

 

[Bigantall]

I knew chargers were bad when JC Jackson pushed on a hail Mary at end of first half then the knuckle head brings it out and gets tackled at 3 after interception 

[msw2112]

19 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Didn’t watch the game but from what a friend told me Tua could’ve easily had at least 5 turnovers between fumbles and dropped picks. So the crappy part is all anyone will say all week is how amazing Tua played. Seems as though this was a game where the stats don’t tell the whole story

 

I have both Tua and Herbert as QBs on my fantasy team.  Tua had a good day from a fantasy perspective.  To be successful in Fantasy (or any kind of football betting), you have to check your Bills allegiance at the door - for betting purposes only.  The way I see it, I would have liked to see Tua stack up a bunch of points, but lose the game, so I'm disappointed in the outcome.  I don't think he'll survive the season, hence having both him and Herbert on the team.  Of course, I would have taken Allen over both of them, but he was not available at the time I picked a QB.  I did, however pick up Diggs and will be thrilled when he both 1) puts up a lot of fantasy points and 2) wins the game against the Jests.

 

As a side note, if I ever have to choose between the Bills losing or my fantasy team losing, it's no contest.  Fantasy football is of little consequence if the Bills win.  Many things in life are of little consequence if the Bills win!

[Kellyhero68]

CB Jackson killed them in this game. Stupid PI at the end of the half gave the Fish a free 3pts, and they lost by 2. Then he picks off the ball and instead of taking a knee runs it out to the 3 or 4 yard line which set up a Fish Score. Not to mention on the last drive they abandoned the run which worked ALL day. 

[Kellyhero68]

Miami vaunted defense got chewed apart on the ground 200+ yards. There game play looks great in LA in September against an undisciplined defense. Try that in Buffalo, New Jersey or New England in the Winter.  A strong defensive team with a running game would beat that circus.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The Chargers are the worst coached team in the NFL and have been for a couple years now.

[BigDingus]

 

20 hours ago, balln said:

Mike white had 405 and 3 TDs against cincy ( a better team and D than chargers) in his first ever action 

 

I said it's even more rare that a bad QB puts up those numbers, not impossible. Also, that was actually White's 2nd game 😉

 

But either way, Tua is not in the same position Mike White was in. Whtie was a rookie backup when he did that, Tua is the established starter that proved he could do this last year too. 

 

Imagine if someone was downplaying Josh's best games...

 

In 2020, he had 2 x 400+ yard games, with 415 against the Dolphins (21st ranked def) & 415 against the Seahawks (22nd ranked def). In 2021, his best 2 games were 358 yards against Washington (22nd ranked def) and 366 against the Jets (32nd ranked def). Last year, he had another 400 yard game against Miami (18th)... Should those not count because they were all against bad defenses? 

 

Of course not. It's the NFL, and 400+ yard games aren't easy. It's obvious to me that Tyreek changed his career, and now we're seeing what Tua's actually capable of when he has the pieces around him. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by BigDingus