Players already disliking Bienemy…

[LabattBlue]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38156107/some-commanders-players-concerned-eric-bieniemy-intensity-ron-rivera-says

[Captain Hindsight]

Very interesting to see how it turns out in Washington

[wppete]

What a shocker 😮. Cmon after watching “Quarterback” on Netflix it was completely obvious he was not the play caller and really didn’t have much say in KC. Matt Nagy was making the calls and he is now the OC again in KC. They got much better. 
 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by wppete

[Bangarang]

That offense is going to be really bad and nobody should be surprised at all.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, Bangarang said:

That offense is going to be really bad and nobody should be surprised at all.

It is, but they aren't doing him any favors with Howell expected to start. Either way, he's likely one and done there. My money is on Ron Rivera being the first coach "relieved of his duties" this season. 

[Jukester]

So a bunch of coddled young nfl players can’t handle a hard nosed coach who sets a high bar and rides their soft asses. Got it. 

[wppete]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

It is, but they aren't doing him any favors with Howell expected to start. Either way, he's likely one and done there. My money is on Ron Rivera being the first coach "relieved of his duties" this season. 

I think that was the plan all along. Sneak Beinamy in as HC when Ribera is let go after a rough season. 

[dave mcbride]

I wouldn't make any judgments yet. The proof will be in the pudding. What they had before certainly wasn't working. Maybe this will.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, wppete said:

I think that was the plan all along. Sneak Beinamy in as HC when Ribera is let go after a rough season. 

Well, I think if Ron is let go, that may have been the plan. Give him an audition as IHC. However, if EB is already not well liked it's going to go even further south of they do that in my opinion. Switching from a well liked Rivera to an already not liked Beinemy would destroy that locker room.

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38156107/some-commanders-players-concerned-eric-bieniemy-intensity-ron-rivera-says

 

Interesting.

 

McDermott, and other coaches have stressed that you have to "get to know players and care about them as people, before the players listen to what you say to them as a coach."  One thing I was fascinated by was Daboll's progress from a first year OC, very terse, calling players out a bit in his press conferences (not by name, but when you talk about "we can't have problems with the QB-C exchange" it's clear who you're talking about, and when Beasley tipped up a low ball and it was picked on the deflection "maybe the throw is a little low, you still have to catch it" that's clear too.  By his second year he was much more protective of his players to the press, and also much more relaxed and affable dealing with the press, asking them how they were, etc etc.  And his press conferences became less adversarial.

 

I knew a coaches kid from Dick Vermeil's Rams, and he talked about how impressed he was just after his father was hired, when he walked into the practice facility for the first time and Vermeil greeted him by name, asked how his grade in school was going, and if he'd found a band yet (he was a musician).  Vermeil used to send his assistants to Dale Carnegie classes to improve their people skills if he thought it was needed.

 

So this from Rivera:

Quote

"As a coach, I have to assimilate and get a feel for everybody," Rivera said. "Eric has an approach and it's the way he does things and it's not going to change because he believes in it. [Defensive coordinator] Jack [Del Rio] has his approach. Having been a head coach, I think Jack has a tendency to try to figure guys out a little bit more as opposed to, 'Hey, this is it, this is the way it's going to be,' that type of stuff. Eric hasn't had that experience yet."

 

Perhaps that "this is it, this is the way it's going to be" from Bienemy is part of the reason why

Quote

Bieniemy has interviewed for a head-coaching position 15 times but has yet to land that job.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Very interesting to see how it turns out in Washington

Who knows? They were .500 last year and have some very good talent. I have no idea how they'll do. I won't be shocked if they go 5-11 and I won't be shocked if they go 10-7.

[BillsShredder83]

You mean to tell me if you follow all the smoke long enough, you'll find a fire? Truly shocking!

 

I really thought that literally half the league (well 15 teams per article) decided to gang up and not hire him, for no reason at all?!?!

 

The days of getting a HC job by being the biggest blowhard are long gone. 

 

With the McDaniels, McVays, and Kyle Shanahans of the league rising up, is anyone surprised that waterboarding your guys with vinegar isnt catching any flys lol the fact that he can't evolve with the trend tells me (and 15 teams) that he's too dug in to change.  The games changing more then ever, you need to be able to adapt better. 

[wppete]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Well, I think if Ron is let go, that may have been the plan. Give him an audition as IHC. However, if EB is already not well liked it's going to go even further south of they do that in my opinion. Switching from a well liked Rivera to an already not liked Beinemy would destroy that locker room.

But we do know what all the talking heads on ESPN and other places have been telling us for 3-4 years why EB wasn’t hired. They were pushing a ridiculous narrative and maybe now we know that all these owners and GMs really knew what was the truth. 
 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by wppete

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Who knows? They were .500 last year and have some very good talent. I have no idea how they'll do. I won't be shocked if they go 5-11 and I won't be shocked if they go 10-7.

 

In that division and with their QBs?  I'd say ~.500 is about the best they can hope for again.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Doc

[Royale with Cheese]

This approach doesn't even work in HS anymore.  It's certainly not going to work in the NFL with grown men.

[BillsShredder83]

7 minutes ago, Jukester said:

So a bunch of coddled young nfl players can’t handle a hard nosed coach who sets a high bar and rides their soft asses. Got it. 

Even if this analysis is correct, who cares whos wrong?  You can be right all you want, but its going to do any good if you cant get anyone to buy in.  Are his odds better at changing the entire league, or him adapting to something that works. Why try to be smarter when you can just yell louder lol would anyone on this board want a boss like that? Is a boss like that going to make you better or disgruntled

[cle23]

25 minutes ago, wppete said:

What a shocker 😮. Cmon after watching “Quarterback” on Netflix it was completely obvious he was not the play caller and really didn’t have much say in KC. Matt Nagy was making the calls and he is now the OC again in KC. They got much better. 
 

 

 

Nagy isn't and never was the play caller in KC either.  It's always been Reid.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

It is, but they aren't doing him any favors with Howell expected to start. Either way, he's likely one and done there. My money is on Ron Rivera being the first coach "relieved of his duties" this season. 

Howell showed some promise. I’m def keeping an eye on him this year. 

[Beck Water]

26 minutes ago, wppete said:

But we do know what all the talking heads on ESPN and other places have been telling us for 3-4 years why EB wasn’t hired. They were pushing a ridiculous narrative and maybe now we know that all these owners and GMs really knew what was the truth. 
 

 

 

It may very well be that Bienemy learned his intensity from Andy Reid, and that it's been a factor in the Chiefs offensive success, and that it's been lacking in Washington, and their offense will benefit from his approach.

 

2 different things can both be true.   

 

There could be legitimate concerns resulting in Bienemy not being seen as the best guy for a HC job.

 

It can also be true that there's a double standard, and that the same concerns would be overlooked in a different candidate with similar experience/qualifiications are perceived as eliminating a man of color.

 

This piece is about how the same traits are perceived differently in men vs women, but if you care, you can substitute a few words and figure it out.

 

"How To Tell A Businessman From A Businesswoman"

A businessman is aggressive; a businesswoman is pushy.
He is assertive; she is confrontational.
He is detail oriented; she is picky.
He loses his temper because he's so invested in his job; she's bitchy.
He's persistent; she doesn't know when to quit.
He's firm; she's inflexible.
He makes judgments; she reveals prejudices.
He says what he thinks; she's opinionated.
He exercises authority; she's tyrannical.
He's discreet; she's secretive.
He's a stern taskmaster; she's difficult to work for.

 

 

[Bangarang]

57 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

It is, but they aren't doing him any favors with Howell expected to start. Either way, he's likely one and done there. My money is on Ron Rivera being the first coach "relieved of his duties" this season. 

With new ownership it’s a given. They’ll be competing for Caleb Williams.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Bangarang

[buffaloboyinATL]

I was actually surprised that Rivera mentioned this publicly.  It honestly makes the players who went to him, look soft.  I see no benefit to making this public, except to get the media talking about it.  

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

It is, but they aren't doing him any favors with Howell expected to start. Either way, he's likely one and done there. My money is on Ron Rivera being the first coach "relieved of his duties" this season. 

No way. New ownership will let the coach ride out the season, get a high pick. Then they can clean house next offseason, and the new front office can get “their guy”.

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It may very well be that Bienemy learned his intensity from Andy Reid, and that it's been a factor in the Chiefs offensive success, and that it's been lacking in Washington, and their offense will benefit from his approach.

 

2 different things can both be true.   

 

There could be legitimate concerns resulting in Bienemy not being seen as the best guy for a HC job.

 

It can also be true that there's a double standard, and that the same concerns would be overlooked in a different candidate with similar experience/qualifiications are perceived as eliminating a man of color.

 

This piece is about how the same traits are perceived differently in men vs women, but if you care, you can substitute a few words and figure it out.

 

"How To Tell A Businessman From A Businesswoman"

A businessman is aggressive; a businesswoman is pushy.
He is assertive; she is confrontational.
He is detail oriented; she is picky.
He loses his temper because he's so invested in his job; she's bitchy.
He's persistent; she doesn't know when to quit.
He's firm; she's inflexible.
He makes judgments; she reveals prejudices.
He says what he thinks; she's opinionated.
He exercises authority; she's tyrannical.
He's discreet; she's secretive.
He's a stern taskmaster; she's difficult to work for.

 

 

 

It's 100% because they don't think he's the best guy.  It's a production based business and anyone that the feel can lead them to the Lombardi, they will hire.

 

[Beck Water]

33 minutes ago, cle23 said:

Nagy isn't and never was the play caller in KC either.  It's always been Reid.

 

Nagy also moved on to the Bears before Mahomes took the reins as starter in 2018

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's 100% because they don't think he's the best guy.  It's a production based business and anyone that the feel can lead them to the Lombardi, they will hire.

 

 

Of course!  But, since most coaches who are hired don't, in fact, lead their team to the Lombardi - 1/3 of current NFL coaches don't even have winning records with their current teams - and some of these coaches get chance after chance with different teams - your observation simply raises the question "why do the NFL execs or owners charged with hiring, feel their chosen hire can lead them to the Lombardi?  What criteria are they using? Are those criteria, in fact, the most relevant criteria?  And if they are, are those criteria being applied differently to black or brown coaching candidates?

 

I'm not saying this to flap the "racist conspiracy" bedsheet.  I don't think there's some grand conspiracy.  I don't even think there's necessarily some kind of conscious racism at play.  But I do think, without some serious and careful examination, there's a natural tendency to settle on hires we "click" or are comfortable with, and a lot of times those are people who who remind us of ourselves - not necessarily the people who have the best background most likely to lead a football team to victory.  And people who remind us of ourselves, tend to be people who look like us and talk like us and have a somewhat similar background.

 

Which is why it's worth giving some thought as to whether something like "Candidate A is detail-oriented; Candidate B is picky.  Candidate A is invested in his job and sets a high standard; Candidate B is demanding" might be going on.

 

Neither the reactions to my previous post, nor the posters who made them, surprise me a bit. " It is what it is"

Edited August 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[BillsShredder83]

17 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It may very well be that Bienemy learned his intensity from Andy Reid, and that it's been a factor in the Chiefs offensive success, and that it's been lacking in Washington, and their offense will benefit from his approach.

 

2 different things can both be true.   

 

There could be legitimate concerns resulting in Bienemy not being seen as the best guy for a HC job.

 

It can also be true that there's a double standard, and that the same concerns would be overlooked in a different candidate with similar experience/qualifiications are perceived as eliminating a man of color.

 

This piece is about how the same traits are perceived differently in men vs women, but if you care, you can substitute a few words and figure it out.

 

"How To Tell A Businessman From A Businesswoman"

A businessman is aggressive; a businesswoman is pushy.
He is assertive; she is confrontational.
He is detail oriented; she is picky.
He loses his temper because he's so invested in his job; she's bitchy.
He's persistent; she doesn't know when to quit.
He's firm; she's inflexible.
He makes judgments; she reveals prejudices.
He says what he thinks; she's opinionated.
He exercises authority; she's tyrannical.
He's discreet; she's secretive.
He's a stern taskmaster; she's difficult to work for.

 

 

The NFL cares about literally nothing other then who gives them the best chance to win. Chiefs traded for and Brinks trucked Tyreek, same thing with DWatson.

Why overlook that stuff? Because theyre talented and can help win.

 

But you're telling me teams wont hire Bienemy due to racism?  Theyre willing to take a lesser talent, because hes black?

 

In one instance we have:

Sex Assault/Domestic + Talent    >    No baggage + Lesser Talent

 

But 15 NFL teams are:

Black guy + Talent + No Baggage   <   White Guy + Lesser Talent

 

Both of these cant be true.  Every team is loaded with black guys, but these teams, 15 of them, are sooo racist that, they value whiteness over winning.

Meanwhile, also valuing rapists and woman beaters over winning.

 

The Browns (who have been a factory of coaching changes) traded for Watson, a black sexual assaulter...... but were too racist to hire Bienemy, so much so that even if it meant 15 years of Coaching turnovers would stop, they were unwilling to hire him.

 

It logically can't be both. 

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

The NFL cares about literally nothing other then who gives them the best chance to win.

 

How to put this politely?  I'll try this.

While you may be 100% correct about the intentions, let's just say that W-L records around the league, despite all attempts at parity, suggest that the intentions may not always be implemented in a way that is actually conducive to achieving them.

 

4 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

But you're telling me teams wont hire Bienemy due to racism?  Theyre willing to take a lesser talent, because hes black?

 

Let me ask you this: Assume that the owner/GM will always hire the guy they PERCEIVE as the best man for the job.  Does the hiring of HC such as Nathaniel Hackett, suggest to you that their perception is 'in sync' with some kind of objective assessment of the actual best candidate?

 

If, in fact, the best candidate is always being hired, how do you explain some of the patterns around the league?

Bienemy may have flaws of character or approach that would make him a poor head coach.   I don't know; neither does anyone here.  I would say the same was probably true of Doug Marrone, who obtained 2 different opportunities with 2 different teams.  His record as a head coach was W:38 and L:60, so if he was the "best talent" available, that was kind of a fail, no?

 

4 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

 Chiefs traded for and Brinks trucked Tyreek, same thing with DWatson. Why overlook that stuff? Because theyre talented and can help win.

 

But you're telling me teams wont hire Bienemy due to racism?  Theyre willing to take a lesser talent, because hes black?

 

In one instance we have:

Sex Assault/Domestic + Talent    >    No baggage + Lesser Talent

 

But 15 NFL teams are:

Black guy + Talent + No Baggage   <   White Guy + Lesser Talent

 

Both of these cant be true.  Every team is loaded with black guys, but these teams, 15 of them, are sooo racist that, they value whiteness over winning.

 

Why yes, actually.  Both of these can be true.  I think you're mixing in a couple of things here.  There are all kinds of objective measurables and performance data available about players.

 

It's one thing to be choosing the best performers on the field, based on all those measurables and performance data.

 

It's another thing to choose the best guy for the executive suite - the criteria are somewhat less tangible, most would admit.

 

That's not unique to football - there are plenty of places where the lower echelons look like a cross section of America or may even be predominantly minority or predominantly women - but as you look up the org chart, the top positions are dominated by Old White Guys.

 

I'm sure they're absolutely the best and most talented people for the job, always <-sarcasm

We all have our perceptions, and if we hire without examining them, we 1) don't necessarily choose the best candidate 2) we may in fact, systematically rule out candidates of certain characteristics.  Doesn't make us racist or sexist scum, but it's still a problem if you believe in meritocracy and fairness.

 

I likely won't continue this; I've said 90% of what I have to say, as clearly as I can say it, and the convo can easily become inappropriately broad and philosophical/political.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[Captain_Quint]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

I think that was the plan all along. Sneak Beinamy in as HC when Ribera is let go after a rough season. 

Did KC get comp pics or was Beinamy a lateral move? 

 

If they got two 3rd round pics for him that's highway robbery. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

23 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Of course!  But, since most coaches who are hired don't, in fact, lead their team to the Lombardi - 1/3 of current NFL coaches don't even have winning records with their current teams - and some of these coaches get chance after chance with different teams - your observation simply raises the question "why do the NFL execs or owners charged with hiring, feel their chosen hire can lead them to the Lombardi?  What criteria are they using? Are those criteria, in fact, the most relevant criteria?  And if they are, are those criteria being applied differently to black or brown coaching candidates?

 

I'm not saying this to flap the "racist conspiracy" bedsheet.  I don't think there's some grand conspiracy.  I don't even think there's necessarily some kind of conscious racism at play.  But I do think, without some serious and careful examination, there's a natural tendency to settle on hires we "click" or are comfortable with, and a lot of times those are people who who remind us of ourselves - not necessarily the people who have the best background most likely to lead a football team to victory.  And people who remind us of ourselves, tend to be people who look like us and talk like us and have a somewhat similar background.

 

Which is why it's worth giving some thought as to whether something like "Candidate A is detail-oriented; Candidate B is picky.  Candidate A is invested in his job and sets a high standard; Candidate B is demanding" might be going on.

 

Neither the reactions to my previous post, nor the posters who made them, surprise me a bit. " It is what it is"

 

Lovie Smith goes 8-24 as the Bucs Head coach after being fire from the Bears.

He then went 17-39 with the University of Illinois.

He then gets hired by the Texans to coach defense and the defense is bad in his one year....I think 27th in defensive scoring.  He was then promoted to Head Coach and went 3-13.

 

In the last 9 seasons as Coach and HC...

• 28-76 Win/loss record
• 27th in points allowed as DC.

He's literally been terrible but keeps getting jobs.   

Edited August 8, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[benderbender]

You can’t spell Bienemy without enemy

[wppete]

19 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

Did KC get comp pics or was Beinamy a lateral move? 

 

If they got two 3rd round pics for him that's highway robbery. 

 

Great question. I’m not sure but sounds about right. If so KC fleeced them. 

[Breakout Squad]

Seriously. He referred to himself in the 3rd person. The douchery of that alone would make it hard to respect him. Very few can get away with that….and definitely not an OC 😅

[Augie]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

I think his ass gets fired

 

Do you have some room for him in the van down by the river? 

 

How many times did he interview for HC and get passed over? That is not a matter of chance. I certainly don’t know the guy, but it all seems to paint a pretty obvious picture. 

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

What a shocker 😮. Cmon after watching “Quarterback” on Netflix it was completely obvious he was not the play caller and really didn’t have much say in KC. Matt Nagy was making the calls and he is now the OC again in KC. They got much better. 
 

 

Andy Reid was making the calls.  M

Nagy was the QB coach which is why he was shown in that show so much.  End result is the same, Bienemy's lack of play calling experience and his past legal issues are the reasons he hasn't received head coaching offers.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I was actually surprised that Rivera mentioned this publicly.  It honestly makes the players who went to him, look soft.  I see no benefit to making this public, except to get the media talking about it.  

 

Oh, but he was so cryptic about it that only the conscious people knew what he meant. 

 

But I agree, that was a mini-Payton move, but talking about his own coach. Odd strategy there, indeed. 

 

 

.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Augie

[78thealltimegreat]

This team wants Drake Maye or Caleb Williams under center in 2024. Already throwing Eric under the bus is pretty low blow even though it’s obvious Big Red is the offense in KC

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

This team wants Drake Maye or Caleb Williams under center in 2024. Already throwing Eric under the bus is pretty low blow even though it’s obvious Big Red is the offense in KC

 

But at least they will be able to say he got a chance to do more and look how that turned out. And THEN clean up with a franchise QB. We will be solving multiple problems even if it wasn’t intended that way. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Jukester said:

So a bunch of coddled young nfl players can’t handle a hard nosed coach who sets a high bar and rides their soft asses. Got it. 

 

Does being a hard guy earn you wins?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

It's training camp in August.  The most you're going to get chewed out is over the summer in my experience.  Installing a new offense with a bare cupboard at QB is challenging enough, you probably do need to come at them sort of hard to get messages across and identify your leaders.  

[Gugny]

So weird that he hasn’t landed a HC job.