Gugny Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 41 minutes ago, SCBills said: Love it. Harris is really good, but injury prone. Murray gives us insurance in that role. He’s missed 10 games in 9 years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: The rookie only plays on the right side so he is the backup to Bates until we see otherwise. MCgovern may or may not be better this year than Saffold who is a multiple pro bowl veteran player, we'll see. People seem to be accepting that as a fact for some reason You act as though guards can’t be interchanged, that Torrence would never play LG. He may not, Bills may like him better on the right, especially because they’ve already told McGovern he’ll be at left, but we also know the coaches train for positional flexibility, so I included Torrence in my argument because it is possible he finds himself on the left at some point. Saffold’s best years are way beyond him. There’s a reason he’s still a free agent, he isn’t good. And I also think we can stop using the pro bowl as a means to justify a player’s talent. It’s a popularity contest, nothing more. Most are deserving, don’t get me wrong, but you also have guys nominated that shouldn’t have any business being nominated. To say McGovern will be WORSE than what Saffold gave us last year is just being a contrarian and argumentative. Or perhaps you don’t realize just how bad of a guard Saffold was… Edited May 1, 2023 by JayBaller10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 I expect him to be a contributor 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, Gugny said: He’s missed 10 games in 9 years. Thank you for confirming he's an injury nightmare 😁 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: You act as though guards can’t be interchanged, that Torrence would never play LG. He may not, Bills may like him better on the right, especially because they’ve already told McGovern he’ll be at left, but we also know the coaches train for positional flexibility, so I included Torrence in my argument because it is possible he finds himself on the left at some point. Saffold’s best years are way beyond him. There’s a reason he’s still a free agent, he isn’t good. And I also think we can stop using the pro bowl as a means to justify a player’s talent. It’s a popularity contest, nothing more. Most are deserving, don’t get me wrong, but you also have guys nominated that shouldn’t have any business being nominated. To say McGovern will be WORSE than what Saffold gave us last year is just being a contrarian and argumentative. Or perhaps you don’t realize just how bad of a guard Saffold was… I understand Saffold had a down year. I also understand he is a multiple time pro bowl player and McGovern is a 0 time pro bowl player. You might poo poo that but it means something to be voted in by your coaches and peers. They think Saffold is a very good player. McGovern may be too but that's definitely not a fact that he's better than Saffold until he shows it. He might be worse. The rookie has never played on the left. Ever. I'm sure they will train him up on that because they like flexibility but maybe he just can't do it. We don't know. To assume now he too is a better G than Saffold on the left is silly since he's never done it and I don't see him starting over Bates on the right unless they decide it's close and Bates needs to be backup C and not get injured. So it's not as cut and dry as everyone seems to think. You guys can give me all of the eye rolls you want but it's clearly just your opinion that we may be better on IOL but it's definitely not a fact. I think we are pretty much the same as last year on the OL overall. We still don't have a good RT and Dawkins had a down year at LT so he may be trending down. I do like the Murray and Harris signings. Low cost and high reward. I think they run harder than Motor did as that wasn't his specialty. They are better every down guys. And year 2 of Cook should be better than rookie year. Edited May 1, 2023 by KDIGGZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 I had a Murray bicycle once, what a piece of junk 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 If nothing else, he does have a cool name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Is it possible Hines doesn't make it? Hardy and Hyde both have punt return experience. Kickoffs, I'm sure we have multiple that have done it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mynamemike Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Does this make Hines our new Taiwan Jones? I know he’s going to be primary returner but does he have experience playing gunner? I like this signing but interested to see if we keep four active backs on game day. Maybe Dorsey is going to commit to pounding the rock. I feel like teams are getting so small and fast on defense that a team that can bully up front and hammer the ball down field is very dangerous in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: You act as though guards can’t be interchanged, that Torrence would never play LG. He may not, Bills may like him better on the right, especially because they’ve already told McGovern he’ll be at left, but we also know the coaches train for positional flexibility, so I included Torrence in my argument because it is possible he finds himself on the left at some point. Saffold’s best years are way beyond him. There’s a reason he’s still a free agent, he isn’t good. And I also think we can stop using the pro bowl as a means to justify a player’s talent. It’s a popularity contest, nothing more. Most are deserving, don’t get me wrong, but you also have guys nominated that shouldn’t have any business being nominated. To say McGovern will be WORSE than what Saffold gave us last year is just being a contrarian and argumentative. Or perhaps you don’t realize just how bad of a guard Saffold was… His entire football career he played RG (I stand corrected he did play LG early in his career)... To your bolded I agree. At the least... we have competition at LG. At the Least (if morse stays healthy) I think we have reached top 15 line as a whole. No gloom and doom here I agree with most of your other points. well said. Edited May 1, 2023 by PrimeTime101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said: I understand Saffold had a down year. I also understand he is a multiple time pro bowl player and McGovern is a 0 time pro bowl player. You might poo poo that but it means something to be voted in by your coaches and peers. They think Saffold is a very good player. McGovern may be too but that's definitely not a fact that he's better than Saffold until he shows it. He might be worse. The rookie has never played on the left. Ever. I'm sure they will train him up on that because they like flexibility but maybe he just can't do it. We don't know. To assume now he too is a better G than Saffold on the left is silly since he's never done it and I don't see him starting over Bates on the right unless they decide it's close and Bates needs to be backup C and not get injured. So it's not as cut and dry as everyone seems to think. You guys can give me all of the eye rolls you want but it's clearly just your opinion that we may be better on IOL but it's definitely not a fact. I think we are pretty much the same as last year on the OL overall. We still don't have a good RT and Dawkins had a down year at LT so he may be trending down. You get no arguments from me about the tackles, but your view of the OL is undoubtedly stuck on Saffold’s past accomplishments versus the player he was and has been the last few years. I didn’t know when he came to the Bills that Titan fans were celebrating his exit. He’s not the player he once was and that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that McGovern was a better player than Saffold was last year… or do you dispute this as well? I refuse to believe your stance is simply: Saffold has been named to the pro bowl multiple times, therefore he’s better than McGovern has ever been, including the last season the two took the field (?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Weird. Is that the end of Formosa? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: Is it possible Hines doesn't make it? Hardy and Hyde both have punt return experience. Kickoffs, I'm sure we have multiple that have done it as well. Cook is coming off a rookie year and I think what is more important is who will be that #2 guy. more competition, the better the players get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: His entire football career he played RG... MAYBE he can play LG, but you have no clue if he could or could not. Heck I doubt even buffalo knows that answer yet. This is true. I have no idea if Torrence would be a better LG than what Saffold gave us last season, but if I was a betting man… The argument was mostly about the interior being better than what we have been, not Saffold versus Torrence. We’re talking about Bates potentially going to the bench and I don’t think many here would argue that Bates wasn’t a better guard than Saffold was last year. Oh and Bates has never been to the pro bowl. 😱 In totality the IOL is stronger than last year, despite what the stubborn naysayers choose to believe. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninChicago Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 He always seems to be the Ringo Starr of fantasy trades. The guy the other team throws in to try and sweeten the deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Shows McBeane is committed to being more physical on offense. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 57 minutes ago, Motorin' said: TJ Yeldon 3.0 Mike Tolbert 4.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: I understand Saffold had a down year. I also understand he is a multiple time pro bowl player and McGovern is a 0 time pro bowl player. You might poo poo that but it means something to be voted in by your coaches and peers. They think Saffold is a very good player. McGovern may be too but that's definitely not a fact that he's better than Saffold until he shows it. He might be worse. The rookie has never played on the left. Ever. I'm sure they will train him up on that because they like flexibility but maybe he just can't do it. We don't know. To assume now he too is a better G than Saffold on the left is silly since he's never done it and I don't see him starting over Bates on the right unless they decide it's close and Bates needs to be backup C and not get injured. So it's not as cut and dry as everyone seems to think. You guys can give me all of the eye rolls you want but it's clearly just your opinion that we may be better on IOL but it's definitely not a fact. I think we are pretty much the same as last year on the OL overall. We still don't have a good RT and Dawkins had a down year at LT so he may be trending down. I do like the Murray and Harris signings. Low cost and high reward. I think they run harder than Motor did as that wasn't his specialty. They are better every down guys. And year 2 of Cook should be better than rookie year. Can we stop using Pro Bowl as a way to quantify a player being good? Making a Pro Bowl is meaningless these days and has been for a while. Tyler Huntley was a "Pro Bowl" QB last year. Mac Jones was the year before that. Saffold "made the Pro Bowl" last year the same way Huntley and Jones did as well. Injury replacement. Now this isn't to say at one point Saffold wasn't a very good player. He was. Just wasn't that dude last year. Easy to see if McGovern can play even average it's an improvement. Likewise, even if he flops Torrence may be able to free up Bates to slide in there or perhaps even Edwards regains his form from his time with Kromer and plays the spot. Unlike what MANY complain about at RT...Buffalo has options at both G spots that are possible and even likely improvements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, HOUSE said: I had a Murray bicycle once, what a piece of junk Better than a Huffy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: You get no arguments from me about the tackles, but your view of the OL is undoubtedly stuck on Saffold’s past accomplishments versus the player he was and has been the last few years. I didn’t know when he came to the Bills that Titan fans were celebrating his exit. He’s not the player he once was and that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that McGovern was a better player than Saffold was last year… or do you dispute this as well? I refuse to believe your stance is simply: Saffold has been named to the pro bowl multiple times, therefore he’s better than McGovern has ever been, including the last season the two took the field (?) Saffold has the body of work. Maybe he's declining or maybe he will sign with the Jets and run us over twice a year. It's weird to assume McGovern, who was not a full time starter and was not re-signed by his previous team, is definitely without question better than a multi time pro bowl guard. He might me, fingers crossed. We don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 2 QB 4 RB 1 FB 3 TE 7 WR 10 OL 5 DT 5 DE (Von PUP) 5 LB 6 CB 4 S 1 K 1 P 1 LS Edited May 1, 2023 by Warriorspikes51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: His entire football career he played RG... MAYBE he can play LG, but you have no clue if he could or could not. Heck I doubt even buffalo knows that answer yet. To your bolded I agree. At the least... we have competition at LG. At the Least (if morse stays healthy) I think we have reached top 15 line as a whole. No gloom and doom here I agree with most of your other points. well said. That's actually not true. Torrence started out at LG. Started 13 games as a freshman at LG. Switched to RG. Now, he may be better suited for RG..but he does have the experience at LG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Can we stop using Pro Bowl as a way to quantify a player being good? Making a Pro Bowl is meaningless these days and has been for a while. Tyler Huntley was a "Pro Bowl" QB last year. Mac Jones was the year before that. Saffold "made the Pro Bowl" last year the same way Huntley and Jones did as well. Injury replacement. Now this isn't to say at one point Saffold wasn't a very good player. He was. Just wasn't that dude last year. Easy to see if McGovern can play even average it's an improvement. Likewise, even if he flops Torrence may be able to free up Bates to slide in there or perhaps even Edwards regains his form from his time with Kromer and plays the spot. Unlike what MANY complain about at RT...Buffalo has options at both G spots that are possible and even likely improvements Possible...even likely. But not a fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said: How so? We have Bates and McGovern penciled in currently Saffold was possibly the worst guard in the league last year. If we can get league average performance from his vacated spot, that would be a huge improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Can we stop using Pro Bowl as a way to quantify a player being good? Making a Pro Bowl is meaningless these days and has been for a while. Tyler Huntley was a "Pro Bowl" QB last year. Mac Jones was the year before that. Saffold "made the Pro Bowl" last year the same way Huntley and Jones did as well. Injury replacement. Now this isn't to say at one point Saffold wasn't a very good player. He was. Just wasn't that dude last year. Easy to see if McGovern can play even average it's an improvement. Likewise, even if he flops Torrence may be able to free up Bates to slide in there or perhaps even Edwards regains his form from his time with Kromer and plays the spot. Unlike what MANY complain about at RT...Buffalo has options at both G spots that are possible and even likely improvements Yeah when you make the Pro Bowl but your team that desperately needs IOL consistency doesn't sign you back that says a lot more about how you played. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Just now, KDIGGZ said: Possible...even likely. But not a fact True. However the stances you are taking are not fact as well, though you seem to be trying to present them as such. The position is very much in a wait and see...on both ends of the conversation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 4 dudes splitting 430 carries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Saffold has the body of work. Maybe he's declining or maybe he will sign with the Jets and run us over twice a year. It's weird to assume McGovern, who was not a full time starter and was not re-signed by his previous team, is definitely without question better than a multi time pro bowl guard. He might me, fingers crossed. We don't know Is it also your assertion that Saffold was a better guard than Bates was last year, simply because he has the better body of work over his career? And named to pro bowls? I want you to see the ridiculousness of your argument. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreboding Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said: You have him starting over Bates? Let the kid get on the field before you say his is better than what we have. Bills traded up for Ford a few years back and everyone here loved that pick too By your logic then, no draft pick improves the team. We have to first see if they are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: That's actually not true. Torrence started out at LG. Started 13 games as a freshman at LG. Switched to RG. Now, he may be better suited for RG..but he does have the experience at LG. Please play him at RG LT - Dawkins Doyle LG - McGovern Broeker C - Morse Bates RG - O'Cyrus Edwards RT - Brown Gouraige Boettger could have late round pick trade value Edited May 1, 2023 by Warriorspikes51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, I'm Spartacus said: Is Taiwan history now? Joe B got their back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Please play him at RG LT - Dawkins Doyle LG - McGovern Bates C - Morse (Bates) RG - O'Cyrus Edwards RT - _________ Brown They'll probably rotate them around in training camp until they get the best fit, and also so they can fill in at the other positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: That's actually not true. Torrence started out at LG. Started 13 games as a freshman at LG. Switched to RG. Now, he may be better suited for RG..but he does have the experience at LG. JR. Class Snaps by Alignment Position---2022-----2021 ----2020 LT---------0----------0---------0 LG---------0----------0---------0 C----------0-----------0--------0 RG---------697------761------699 RT---------0---------46--------0 ---------fresh-------soft--------JR Per PFF. I do not know where you are getting your info from Edited May 1, 2023 by PrimeTime101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: True. However the stances you are taking are not fact as well, though you seem to be trying to present them as such. The position is very much in a wait and see...on both ends of the conversation. Not presenting it as fact. I said I don't think we are better, which is my well formed opinion, and everyone is saying I'm wrong because we drafted a backup RG and signed a backup LG to start for us in place of a guy who is well regarded by the league but had a down year. I don't see our OL as being vastly improved. I think they are trying some new pieces and we'll see. RB is definitely improved imo. Motor was a shifty change of pace guy. I never saw him as an every down type back. It was evident when we needed 1 yard and everyone knew we were running. We didn't have an answer for those types of plays and ended up running with Josh a lot of the time. Now hopefully we have some guys that can get the tough yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said: I can’t seem them having Hines, Harris, Cook and Murray all active game day Injury insurance. But, agreed, those 4 can't all be active on game day. Hines is the only special teamer of the bunch too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: Just heard on WGR. Gotta be $1.7M given before 4 PM. 760 yards, 6 TDs, 4.4 ypc last year. Tough not to like this signing. Probably Official at 4pm when transactions are processed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Welcome Duke Johnson 2.0- It is the same type of safety valve if RBs get injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Saffold has the body of work. Maybe he's declining or maybe he will sign with the Jets and run us over twice a year. It's weird to assume McGovern, who was not a full time starter and was not re-signed by his previous team, is definitely without question better than a multi time pro bowl guard. He might me, fingers crossed. We don't know You're not saying you don't know if McGovern is a huge improvement in pass protection from the LG spot, are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Welcome Duke Johnson 2.0- That’s Latavius “Duke” Murray to you… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 I've always liked Murray, if Harris goes down with an injury he can step in especially goaline and short yardage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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